i used to play like that, looking at my weakness and practicing that, but now i just play whatever i like and i get better over time.

silmarilen wrote:

i used to play like that, looking at my weakness and practicing that, but now i just play whatever i like and i get better over time.

I wouldn't even know where to start if I tried to train my weaknesses x.x

Tanzklaue wrote:

I wouldn't even know where to start if I tried to train my weaknesses x.x

Watch at your own replays and look at the places where you mess up. After you found a weakness look for other maps that include your weakness to train on.

I doubt anyone has glaring weaknesses that they can't see by themselves without resorting to watching their own replays.

What is this thing called... weakness?

G0r wrote:

What is this thing called... weakness?

Me I am too weak to play osu! My body GG'd me.

cookiezi gg'd me before i even started playing. didn't even have the chance to say gl hf.

Cookiezi is so BM.

Cookiezi is your friend, ok? 10 hours no bm

because that program is accurate

silmarilen wrote:

because that program is accurate

do you have a better program? http://osu.ppy.sh/s/49459 <- this is a DT map owo

somehow i knew aqo was going to be all over this thread

some how i knew this thread would so god damn useful that I would fc four dimensions

.

enik wrote:

Hi guys, I bet most of you had a situation when your osu! skill is suddenly goes up that you can say "I play really better than yesterday/a week ago" or "wow doing it this way is much better/easier". So what was that?

And it is also true vice versa. I usually have a situation when my osu skill is suddenly drop down that I said this to myself "Damn man do you really cut for this!?"

Stupid paranoia is stupid.

But that makes me better, though

It makes you better only if you react to the feeling of decreased skill properly. There are numerous ways that people can react wrongly or ineffectually to that feeling. There are only a handful of ways that they can react well.

G0r wrote:

It makes you better only if you react to the feeling of decreased skill properly. There are numerous ways that people can react wrongly or ineffectually to that feeling. There are only a handful of ways that they can react well.

Huh? what do you mean about that, bro?

Cause sometimes when I play I can't set the same set of scores I've set last night. I play around 8 - 10 hours a day, and i get worst as the time pass. The only time I see improvement is when i take like a 3 day break, and that's when I start setting new scores.

because of this, I have the worst kind of paranoia. I keep telling myself, I'm not going to be as good as yesterday. It was just luck, I'm not really that good. I go through this everyday, and it sucks. besides why does it take me like 40 mins - 1 hour to warm up?

please can someone tell me this >.<

playing 8-10 hours a day and only getting worse doesnt make sense, unless your hand.fingers become tired. but there should always be at least a litle improvement on 1 day because of warmup. and then next day you have to warm up again.

ok, I exaggerated a bit about the hours. maybe 3-4 hours lol

but yeah, guess my hand gets tired, but i dunno when to stop. I play at my peak when my hands start hurting, and I don't feel tired. must be the numbness.

That sounds to me like muscle strain. What's your DPI again?

Edit: Just checked your profile, and it says you use tablet. I guess I remembered wrong. I don't know why your muscles would get so tired so quickly playing like that.

sCam wrote:

ok, I exaggerated a bit about the hours. maybe 3-4 hours lol

but yeah, guess my hand gets tired, but i dunno when to stop. I play at my peak when my hands start hurting, and I don't feel tired. must be the numbness.

If your hand/wrist hurts, take a 2-3min break. If you don't want to stop playing, play something that is fairly effortless.

Sorry cant multi quote On itouch

@Gor maybe because I am weak, and don't excerise? Havent done any physical workout since 10 months I got Osu.

@Xafnia That's actually a pretty smart plan, thanks. I usually just do t think to that, because i just play intense stuff back to back to back without any breaks really :/

Anyway, what I said about reacting to a feeling of decreased skill was supposed to mean that if you feel like your skill went down, don't take this to mean more than it does. Plenty of people look at the big picture too much, so when they have a feeling that they got worse at something, they think they're bad at Osu in general. It may just be that there is something that your muscles need to specifically get better at now, but before you were sliding by on it, so you didn't have as many problems as you do now that you're focused on it and trying to learn. Sometimes we also exagerate warm up time too. Everyone needs time to warm up. If you think about it as more than just something that is happening now and will go away eventually, then you can prolong the problem by scrutinizing yourself. Osu is a game of compartmentalizing. Try not to look at how good you are overall, and just look at what you can do now. Feelings are fine to have, because they can hint at what kind of practice is needed, but beyond that feelings and an empty sack are worth the sack.

enik wrote:

Mind if I qoute it here?

Actually, at this point I'd like to point out something which I believe everyone has experienced least once in their osu! lifetime. It's this "form factor" which is the highest when a player say, plays the map for the first time, or suddenly stumbles on a revelation and starts playing like a Cookiezi or WhiteWolf. For this rise in form I'll call it the honeymoon period (yes, I know it's that marriage term, but heck, it works). This period is the most prominent when one starts passing Insanes for fun on a regular basis, and usually lasts the longest. How long it lasts though, depends on the player himself, but this is the time when it's best to keep playing and make sure that this form factor gets converted into class.

You, hylianloach, probably just ended your honeymoon period and now you're suffering from the drawbacks of reduced form and whatnot. That at least, if you've been playing Insanes since forever and haven't been going back to the Normals and easier difficulties for goodness knows what reason related to rank whoring and stuff. Having been through that honeymoon period, your sub-conciousness will remember how it feels to pass Insanes regularly, but obviously your body won't, so it's up to you to make sure your body remembers what your sub-conciousness does. To do that, please play more Insanes, and fuck the Hards and the Normals and the Easys. And I'm not talking about repeating plays until you pass/FC the map, but playing several different Insanes until you get the feel back.

Just never play maps which are within your skill level. You will never improve as fast as if you play maps which are every so slightly beyond your skill level. For that, if you can clear a map with a B rank, usually you'd be able to move on to slightly harder maps and return to the B-ranked map after a while. If you cleared the map with an A rank, don't look back and move on. It's not worth it to waste your time trying to get S/SS/SSSSS/SSSSSS for a map which is already too easy for you.

That, and invest lots of time, gigabytes and accuracy stats in the first few months of play. During this time, it would be wise to experiment with different playstyles limited to the computer peripherals you currently own (that I mean, if you don't have a tablet, don't get one), and also different ways to view beatmaps. If some maps are too difficult for you and you MUST ABSOLUTELY PASS THEM, go ahead and turn on NoFail.

If you ever reach a revelation and suddenly start playing better, it's normal.

Correct me if it's a wrong one.

I've been playing Osu for a little over 2 years now, and while I'm not incredible or anything, I've always agreed with the suggested mentality in the above quote. Though, not to diverge from the OP, but this is also caused me to greatly dislike the new ranking system of PP. I don't want to go back and play easy maps that are, to me, quite boring and seem to deteriorate my skill. However, the pp system doesn't seem to acknowledge any of my progress unless I can miraculously make it into the top 500 or so. The songs I tend to get points for are nowhere near my best performances, because my best performances are on difficult maps and I didn't make it into the top 500ish. I know it probably seems silly to bring up ranking when the quote above specifically discourages "rank whoring," per se, but I've always liked to see that I'm making progress. What's the point of the system if it only acknowledges progress in such a small portion of players?

I definitely feel the best way to improve is to constantly challenge yourself and practice maps that are more difficult for your skill level, but ironically the ranking system will likely be completely irrelevant if you adopt this mentality (until you reach and extremely high level of skill, anyway.

I have 3 friends who have recently started playing osu!, and I keep having to tell them to move on after they get a B on easy maps. I see them grinding maps to try to get S/SS/SSSSSSS while they could easily beat it later if they keep pushing onto new songs. Really, if you can get a B without nofail on a song, it's time to move onto something harder.

moving on to higher diff songs when you get a B with nofail is just stupid imo, you should move to easier songs.

Nofail should only be used once if you want to do a full sightread without failing. Using nofail more than once on a song is silly.

i ment without ofcourse
getting a B on a map no matter what already means the map is too hard.
if you even need nofail to pass the map you shouldnt even bother with it.

I never moved on before I could manage an A within a couple of attempts. Grinding maps for SS was never my style, and this is how it took me 1 year before I got any SS at all (after then I got them on a regular basis).

To be honest, If it hadn't been for friends who constantly challenged me and pushed hard shit on me, I'd totally not been able to play HR/DT or high bpm.

Playing with NoFail on is the best way to hinder your own improvement. It may feel really cool to be clicking stuff like a mad man, but it does your muscles no good, and you learn nothing. The only time to use NoFail is if you can't get through the map because it has a stupid skin with giant hit bursts, or something like that, and you want to use the Fun Spoiler Settings to turn stuff off.

I think you're all talking nonsense

NoFail is the best way to teach your muscles new skills fast. If you're just mashing then obviously it's worthless but if you're actually trying to play things correctly it allows you to train on hard stuff that helps your sharpen your abilities faster.

It certainly is more time-efficient to learn streaming in higher speeds with NoFail instead of retrying a map with a stream speed you can't do 50 times, or learning to deal with very small circles by playing maps fully instead of just retrying the same part over and over and ruining your own reading ability.

HP drain doesn't belong in rhythm games to begin with.

you dont learn anything by trying to do something you cant.
its like becomming a weightlifter by starting with trying to lift 150 kg, using a chain to pull it up if you cant handle it by yourself.

You won't learn to do things you can't without trying.
Successfully doing things you can already do won't improve your ability to do things you can't.
its like trying to become a weightlifter who would lift 150 kg by only lifting 20 kg during practice. It won't help. You have to constantly challenge yourself and push your own limits a little higher a time.

Since I've thought exactly like both Aqo and Silmarilen at some point, I know that you're both right and wrong.

It's pretty much reflected in which types of players you are also.
Silmarilen is an accurate player, while Aqo can perform heavy physical tasks thanks to his hard training.

In my opinion what the other player has, is exactly what you two need more of, because practicing hard maps and learning accuracy are both required to become a really good player.

There is some wisdom in what Kriers is saying, but I honestly lean further toward Silmarilen's side of the argument, because I feel that he is supporting the more mature view. I used to think like Aqo does, and in my opinion I now believe that it is a stepping stone that I eventually moved on from. Everyone wants the excitement of feeling like they are getting better by slowly improving at something by inches with Nofail on, and it really does give you the illusion of improvement... but then you play a 120 BPM song and get 94% accuracy with two misses resulting in about a third of the total combo, and realize that you haven't really been getting better, you've been learning to hunker down and hold on tight while you reproduce movements as best you can, and you've been doing an alright job of that, but that's not really what this game is about. It's about technique. I'm not saying NoFail players are button mashers. I am saying that they learn skills that are not foundational and will never add up to solid play, but might add up to mediocre play that gets you by and may even look and feel impressive at times.

If you have foundation, then that stream shouldn't be something that you fail fifty times. You should fail it twice, and then succeed perfectly. Even if it's a new BPM or style or anything at all that you have not played before, you'll get it in five tries max. You may not be consistent, meaning that you may mess the next exact same type of stream up, but you'll get it after five tries, and then fifteen tries later you've FC'd the song with 98% accuracy, even though it was a totally new thing to you. That's what foundation does for you. It gives you the ability to solve things immediately, rather than just inch your way up. True, you won't solve The Big Black right away, but with enough foundation you'll do it. Even Cookiezi had to start somewhere.

But Kriers is right. Some players take foundation too seriously, because they're a little afraid to go too far and feel like they suck. They don't try the next level, because they don't want to leave their comfort zone. They can't take risks, because their confidence rides on always getting consistent results. It can be a real mind trap. However, a good and better player does try the next level and takes the risk, and he doesn't need Nofail to build up his confidence. He builds it up by making leaps and bounds with each new try, even if the first try barely passed. He knows his foundation will push him up soon enough.

This is my feeling on the matter.

Hey, I got decent at jumping through grinding TAG4 maps because I could.

but tag4 jumps arent the hardest kinds of jumps, its mostly the randomness and distance, there are plenty of songs with harder jumps. higher bpm, patterns, back & forth jumps, things like that.

G0r wrote:

There is some wisdom in what Kriers is saying, but I honestly lean further toward Silmarilen's side of the argument, because I feel that he is supporting the more mature view. I used to think like Aqo does, and in my opinion I now believe that it is a stepping stone that I eventually moved on from. Everyone wants the excitement of feeling like they are getting better by slowly improving at something by inches with Nofail on, and it really does give you the illusion of improvement... but then you play a 120 BPM song and get 94% accuracy with two misses resulting in about a third of the total combo, and realize that you haven't really been getting better, you've been learning to hunker down and hold on tight while you reproduce movements as best you can, and you've been doing an alright job of that, but that's not really what this game is about. It's about technique. I'm not saying NoFail players are button mashers. I am saying that they learn skills that are not foundational and will never add up to solid play, but might add up to mediocre play that gets you by and may even look and feel impressive at times.

If you have foundation, then that stream shouldn't be something that you fail fifty times. You should fail it twice, and then succeed perfectly. Even if it's a new BPM or style or anything at all that you have not played before, you'll get it in five tries max. You may not be consistent, meaning that you may mess the next exact same type of stream up, but you'll get it after five tries, and then fifteen tries later you've FC'd the song with 98% accuracy, even though it was a totally new thing to you. That's what foundation does for you. It gives you the ability to solve things immediately, rather than just inch your way up. True, you won't solve The Big Black right away, but with enough foundation you'll do it. Even Cookiezi had to start somewhere.

But Kriers is right. Some players take foundation too seriously, because they're a little afraid to go too far and feel like they suck. They don't try the next level, because they don't want to leave their comfort zone. They can't take risks, because their confidence rides on always getting consistent results. It can be a real mind trap. However, a good and better player does try the next level and takes the risk, and he doesn't need Nofail to build up his confidence. He builds it up by making leaps and bounds with each new try, even if the first try barely passed. He knows his foundation will push him up soon enough.

This is my feeling on the matter.

You pretty much say everything I can't be bothered to type with an ipad, g0r

silmarilen wrote:

but tag4 jumps arent the hardest kinds of jumps, its mostly the randomness and distance, there are plenty of songs with harder jumps. higher bpm, patterns, back & forth jumps, things like that.

Yeah, well, it still paid off since I got used to my tablet area as TAG4 maps usually requires me to move my cursor all over the place, as well as stabilize my movements a bit because lolacrossthescreen1/4jumps.

Screw TAG4 maps D: they're usually just hard because they make no sense at all

This all day; still, won't training on easier/more comfortable maps just slow down your improvement? Every single circle you click is a challenge in itself, the more of them there are, the more you improve... no? Every moment in a map that you're not clicking on circles is a moment wasted on not-improving that could otherwise have been used to improve.

I swear I'm tapping at a consistent tempo and the 100s are still coming. why is this happening
tap tap tap tap
tap tap tap tap
randomly a 100
ARGH PFFT WHY