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Mania mirror mod: special key column changes

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Topic Starter
PouletFurtif
Problem Details:

Playing mirror mode on 6k or 8k moves the special key column. This happens on maps using special style N+1, as set in the editor.
To fix this, the player have to switch the special key position in his mania layout configuration. Sometimes, he has to adapt his skin.

Expected behavior:

Special key column must not be affected by the mirror mod. Here's an example with 7K+1.

If using special style (left), column 1 must not move. Instead:
- Switch column 8 with column 2.
- Switch column 7 with column 3.
- Switch column 6 with column 4.
- Column 5 remains unchanged.

If using special style (right), column 8 must not move Instead:
- Switch column 7 with column 1.
- Switch column 6 with column 2.
- Switch column 5 with column 3.
- Column 4 remain unchanged.


osu! version: 20190906.1
Death
Wouldn't it not be mirrored then?
Full Tablet

Death wrote:

Wouldn't it not be mirrored then?
In 5K+1 or 7K+1 beatmaps, one doesn't want to change the position of the special column when using the mirror mod (the position of that column can already be customized in the main menu of the game).
Death
Are you just talking about the notes or the actual columns? The column position remains the same, and you still get notes down that column, just from the other side.

I don't think it would be possible to do what this request is asking because the layout chosen by the user overrides the setting in the editor. You'd end up with different versions of the same map (with the same mods) because some people are playing it as normal 8k and others are playing 7k+1. Seems wrong to me.
Topic Starter
PouletFurtif
I am not talking about the 6K/8K play styles, but the 5K+1 and 7K+1 play styles.

To explain quickly, the 7K+1 mapping is a 7K mapping style with an occasional additional note on the special key column. This 8th column is often the hardest to play since players use a finger they don't use to play with (the pinky).


The 7K+1 play style originates from the game beatmania IIDX:



There you can pick your side, left or right. The special key is the turntable aka scratch. When you mirror a chart, you don't want to switch turntable notes with the 7th normal key notes.
So, you understand 7K+1 is designed for arcade controllers. But it's actually fun to play with a keyboard too, because the 8th column adds emphasis to the song.
Most top 7K players do play 7K+1 on other games than osu.

In osu, nobody plays "8K". The only ranked map using the 8K play style is this very old one https://osu.ppy.sh/b/365278. Otherwise, all of the 8K ranked maps are actually 7K+1. If you open any, you'll see the special column has only a few notes compared to the other 7.

Death wrote:

You'd end up with different versions of the same map
But this is even more true when you mirror the special key column. It just becomes unplayable.
I hope you will understand with this table showing ranked 7K+1 maps : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jnSU-hUF_LXnMJS_y-m3x_nLtGg83wQFhAj6BplgVHQ/edit?usp=sharing

Also, has this parameter any use? I tried a few setups and it looks like it doesn't do anything.


I know osu team is not very concerned about supporting other modes than 4K/7K grow, but please understand this is a real bug. Please tell me if you need any more info, or if I broke my english somewhere :^)
PatouZ
The point of having the "+1"k on the same place is important I hope it will be in game with mirror :D
CharlisMadCut
Explanation is on point. Hoping that this issue gets resolved as well.
Cunu
Everything here is clear, the special column shouldn't moves with mods like random and mirror.
Death
I understand what the difference is between 8k and 7k+1. But as you noticed, that setting in the editor does nothing. It is just overridden by whatever you have set locally. Maybe it should do something, but it could also be a left over checkbox from a really long time ago.

Right now, even if you choose to map for nK+1, it ends up not really making any difference to the people playing, who can choose to play the map in either style.

If the mirror mod works the same way on osu!lazer, and you want to see it changed, I'd recommend creating an issue here. The mod was back-ported to stable and is likely a copy of that. They most likely want the mods in both clients to be the same, and you are more likely to see a change in lazer than you are here. I can ask, but considering there is no apparent differentiation between 8k and 7k+1 in the current client, this doesn't seem like something that is likely going to change here.
Topic Starter
PouletFurtif
I see. Thank you for the clear answer! I will eventually create an issue as you recommend.

While I have you, and if you are able to answer, may I ask what is the team's opinion about this other 8K issue? https://osu.ppy.sh/community/forums/topics/392668?start=6958232
Death
Considering it has been confirmed for 4 years, I don't think it is likely a fix will be seen for that in the current client.
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