abraker wrote:
Your Good Self wrote:
The idea is that since the QC's job is only to do a rough filter, the entry requirement to be a QC is lower than that of a BN, and thus there will be a lot more QCs than there are BNs (original post suggests up to 10 QCs per BN). This much larger population of QCs is assumed to be able to handle the request volume.
Ok, so what should be the requirements for being a quality checker?
Currently there are a few options being explored, outlined in the updated first post.
One is to have automatic qualification based on mapping/modding activity. I do however concede that without manual regulation of QCs it's still possible for shit maps to reach BN queues, abeit hopefully on a less regular basis. Someone with 3+ ranked maps should know better than to send a clearly unpolished map to BNs.
The other way is to have BNs manage and regulate the pool of QCs, which will be appointed one by one rather than automatically qualified. My concern is that it might turn out to be counterproductive, if there ends up being too much red tape involved in setting up and maintaining the system. If BNs have to manage their own QCs that means even less time to to actual BN checks.
Sonnyc wrote:
This sounds like the old MAT when they can only give proto-bubbles which makes nothing happen but work as a quality checker. I first stepped inside the mapping ecosystem that time, and it was lot better than directly asking a BAT (BN nowadays). Actually there was an attempt, which was the BN-tier system. Tier 1 BNs checked and place a first nomination (bubble), and tier 2 BNs could focus their workloads more on the bubbled ones. But it failed because the amount of tier 2 BN were too less and no maps were actually being qualified.
Anyways I think some real quality indicator other than hype system will help the map being reach to BN and eventually the ranked status, but as it was a system that once exist and gone now, I'm not really sure repeating the same stuff will necessarily be the best. Afaik, the MAT (which is the quality checker in this case) who were able to give proto-bubbles were all promoted to have an ability to actually bubble (nominate) maps because people believed if they can give a pubble (quality indicator), then why should they not get the ability to give real nominations?
Didn't see this post earlier, but I definitely agree. For the record, I wasn't around during the time of MAT/BAT. There was only BAT when I first started mapping.
If we want to bring back a system similar to the MAT/BAT, we'd have to address the concerns raised in the old systems to convince the older folks that history isn't gonna repeat itself.
Sonnyc wrote:
But it failed because the amount of tier 2 BN were too less and no maps were actually being qualified.
If we introduce QC on top of the current system, I wouldn't expect the existing BN population to be affected. In fact, the number of maps being qualified might actually go up as BNs will receive higher quality requests which have been approved by QC.
Sonnyc wrote:
Afaik, the MAT (which is the quality checker in this case) who were able to give proto-bubbles were all promoted to have an ability to actually bubble (nominate) maps because people believed if they can give a pubble (quality indicator), then why should they not get the ability to give real nominations?
Yeah, whoever is in MAT/QC long enough will eventually gain the skills and experience necessary to be a BAT/BN. But IMO that doesn't mean the MAT has to be shut down.
Experienced QCs should be able to promote to BN, while other semi-experienced modders can move into QC. QC must be maintained as a solid middle ground between the average joe and BN.
Like I said above I wasn't around to see MAT activity (or much of osu!'s mapping/modding history for that matter), so I could just be spouting nonsense here.
abraker wrote:
Your Good Self wrote:
For what it's worth, I still don't think this is needed as an official web feature. As per my edit above, right now a BN can still separately (i.e. managed through discord, forum pm, trello etc.) 'recruit' and manage any number of non-BN modder friends as 'quality checkers' to do the same filtering job. Additional development to make it a common and mandatory feature is not required.
I think this is important. One fear I have is that if it does become an official role, it will repeat the same two-tier modding status hierarchy cycle that has been all throughout osu!'s history. Higher status modding role is made -> higher status modding role overwhelmed -> lower status modding role is made -> higher status modding role is found ineffective -> higher status modding role is disbanded and lower status modding role becomes the new higher status modding role -> repeat.
I'm not against the idea of quality checking, just that I'm not entirely sure what the best implementation should be. Maybe a workaround solution already exists outside of the current osu! web features. Workarounds aren't good in the long term, but maybe if those options were explored and found to be good, we'd have a better case to go on here.