Keyboard switches?

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WASSHOI

thelewa wrote:

I broke a BlackWidow by hitting it once

RAZER = QUALITY
Just saying, Razer isn't exactly known for quality builds. They advertise like hell to get their name around, and BlackWidow is actually a good keyboard, but it's always good to look at what competitors offer in the same price range. Rapid Fire overall receives better reviews all around with less complaints of defects and such.

If Rapid Fire was more expensive that BlackWidow (RF is actually slightly cheaper from some sellers), I'd have no issue going with the BlackWidow since it's not a bad keyboard.
lolcubes
Razer was really good back in the days when ball mice were popular, they were simply the best, and that's why they get so much attention. Today they are just crap, well not really, but surely overpriced.

Wishy22 wrote:

Black switches are HARD to press, which reduces your potential endurance.
It all depends on the person. Black switches really aren't that hard to press, atleast for me. And trust me, I can stream fairly well, as well as keep decent accuracy.

Tom94 also uses blacks I think, just saying.

In closing I just wanna say that if you want to buy a mech keyboard, be sure to FEEL all of the switch types before purchase. Some people were disappointed and then they just gave a certain mech switch a bad name, when in reality it's their error to not check what they are buying.
I tested blackwidow and steelseries 7g next to each other. I was much more comfortable with 7g. Just sayin'.
WASSHOI
Yeah, it's pretty much just preference. No switch is particularly better than the other, they're made to suit different tastes, but in the end if you get a certain switch that everyone states is the "best" and don't personally enjoy it then you're just missing out in the end. It's way I advised testing blue switches at a local electronic store with BlackWidow in stock.
Wishy

Espionage724 wrote:

Buckling Spring on IBM Model M = best*

*best if you like noise, tactile feedback, and a decent amount of force needed to press the key down
I have those but I'd rather have blue switches since they are softer.

jesse, yes, they are.

lolcubes, Tom94 uses cherry black and has issues with long fast streams, I myself tried black switches and that's the result I got. Using softer switches = less force required = it takes longer for your fingers to get tired.

Thing on black and red switches is that you ALWAYS bottom out the switches, so it's kind of similar to using a random rubber-dome keyboard and there isn't really any need to develop any new kind of streaming/tapping technique. I'm saying that because of my personal experience with them. But then, when using blue/brown switches you gotta develop/get used to the technique that implies not to bottom out the key, which makes some players hate them since they never get used to that.

It is not a matter of preferences, black switches are harder to press and that has consequences, there's a reason why most top players use blue/brown/red switches and just a few use black. For the record, fastest/best streamers all use red/blue and some brown, but almost none use black, the only one I know is Tom94 who has a 6gv2 and as I said (he told me this) he can't really hold fast streams for long, his burst speed is fast but he gets tired of long streams. A single rare case isn't really proof of anything though since afaik he's circumstances are special (he played the piano for a decade and shit, meaning he pretty much worked out his fingers for a while already hah).
lolcubes
Not bottoming out is very dodgy. You can get great potential speed with that, but we're still human, so in most cases that will backfire and will lead to accuracy loss or instability.

WASSHOI wrote:

but in the end if you get a certain switch that everyone states is the "best" and don't personally enjoy it then you're just missing out in the end.
Why is that? Since Cookiezi and Rucker play with a tablet, does that mean that anyone with a tablet will be as good as them? Ofcourse not. IIRC even Doomsday said that he tried tablet and didn't like it and went back to mouse. Everyone is different and noone is really missing out on anything here.

Wishy22 wrote:

long fast streams
I think everyone has a problem with those. :>
Not trying to be mean or anything, just saying. It's all about the training and experience really. I haven't tried reds but I am afraid that I wouldn't like them because they are too soft for my taste (I guess?). Even blacks feel quite light once you get used to them. Now, I am not saying that black is the best, I am just saying that I am most comfortable with them. I really don't like blues and part of the reason is stated at the top of this post. I came from a flat scissor switch keyboard, and trust me, while they are decent for accuracy, they are a real pain to stream with.

Wishy22 wrote:

Tom94 who has a 6gv2 and as I said (he told me this) he can't really hold fast streams for long, his burst speed is fast but he gets tired of long streams. A single rare case isn't really proof of anything though since afaik he's circumstances are special (he played the piano for a decade and shit, meaning he pretty much worked out his fingers for a while already hah).
Fun fact, exactly the same here. :P Except that I have a 7G, because 6GV2 is like impossible to get here haha.

tldr; I don't like blues because of my first sentence in this post, and I am afraid that reds (although highly unavailable here) would be too light for me, because streaming is not everything I would be doing with them.
Wishy
But still, softer switches = less effort required = better endurance, which in the end is just a good help if you can get used to it.
lolcubes
Completely true and agreed with.
Frizz

Wishy22 wrote:

Frizz925 wrote:

However the combination of their high actuation force and close operating/reset points make them easier for double tapping. I've tried Blacks myself and they're much better than Blues for me.

Also don't forget that val0108 uses Blacks too.
Black switches are HARD to press, which reduces your potential endurance.
Blue switches are HARDER to press thanks to its tactile clicky nature, it requires the user to put it in a lot more force into them before they actually reach their actuation point. Leave alone the peak force of both switches.

And just wanted to add that you don't always need tactility to not bottom-out, if you know the right force needed to register keys without bottoming-out that is.
ziin
I don't always bottom out on my cherry blacks or white alps. I don't really like the white alps, since the actuation point seems to be at 0.5 mm, before the click.

I only bottom out on things I hold, not really on streams or when typing.

scissor switches imo are the best to stream fast with. you need that low bottom to single tap 180 bpm 1/4ths.
Topic Starter
Pacemaker
Thanks everyone. In the end, I think I'll just get the BlackWidow. I was testing the keys at a store earlier, and I really liked them, so I really don't see why not.

WASSHOI wrote:

If you're getting BlackWidow, might I also recomend you look into Cool Master Quickfire Rapid, a great competitor for the BlackWidow.

If you really want reds, then there's also a slightly more expensive red switch version of it too.
Looks neat, but unfortunately, those aren't available anywhere in Germany, so the shipping costs could end ub being quite a pain lol

Wishy22 wrote:

But still, softer switches = less effort required = better endurance, which in the end is just a good help if you can get used to it.
I can't really tell if the Blues are any softer than the Blacks, since the clicking mechanism supposedly makes it harder. Also, I have yet to play a song that really has my finger-fatigue kick in, but I know for a fact that eventually this will be the case, and because of that I'm a bit scared of getting Blacks.
WASSHOI

lolcubes wrote:

WASSHOI wrote:

but in the end if you get a certain switch that everyone states is the "best" and don't personally enjoy it then you're just missing out in the end.
Why is that? Since Cookiezi and Rucker play with a tablet, does that mean that anyone with a tablet will be as good as them? Ofcourse not. IIRC even Doomsday said that he tried tablet and didn't like it and went back to mouse. Everyone is different and noone is really missing out on anything here.
I worded this wrongly. What I meant was you are the only one missing out in the end (because you purchased switches that you're not comfortable with just because everyone said they're "the best.")
Wishy

Frizz925 wrote:

Blue switches are HARDER to press thanks to its tactile clicky nature, it requires the user to put it in a lot more force into them before they actually reach their actuation point. Leave alone the peak force of both switches.

And just wanted to add that you don't always need tactility to not bottom-out, if you know the right force needed to register keys without bottoming-out that is.
Wrong.

Blacks: Actuation Force: 60g (40g-80g overall) (Force Diagram)
Blues: Actuation Force: 45g (55g Peak Force) (Force Diagram)

And of course it doesn't mean 45+55.
Tanzklaue

lolcubes wrote:

WASSHOI wrote:

but in the end if you get a certain switch that everyone states is the "best" and don't personally enjoy it then you're just missing out in the end.
Why is that? Since Cookiezi and Rucker play with a tablet, does that mean that anyone with a tablet will be as good as them? Ofcourse not. IIRC even Doomsday said that he tried tablet and didn't like it and went back to mouse. Everyone is different and noone is really missing out on anything here.
as far as I remember, Doomsday liked the gameplayfeeling of a tablet, but he was really bad with it, so he only would use it for funpurposes.

On Topic: I found the Coolermaster CM Storm Quickfire Pro for 85€, which is relatively cheap for a keyboard with red switches.I actually kinda think about buying it.
RusselG
bottom out or remain scrub

also blues
val0108
Black switch is my best!!
Nessuka
Yeah, I'm buying a new mechanical keyboard soon, and I want to get a somewhat cheap-ish but good for the money keyboard, so before you all tell my to get a razer blackwidow, I'd like to clear up some things.

1. I'm looking for at best a keyboard with Cherry Red MX switches.
2. Low profile keys if possible (less switch travel distance above the main frame).

I'm not keen on going with Razer because they do not meet those requirements really and I've heard they aren't the best for general use too.

So yeah, if anyone could point me in the right direction here, I'd be very greatful.
jesse1412
I use a meka g1. Uses black switches though so not sure you would want one. It's worked fine for me, arm rest is really handy and no shitty ass rave light bullshit. It was delivered rather fast aswell (UK here).

Really I can't say for certain whether blacks are better than reds; I'll probably try reds in the future. I doubt I'm a special case that can stream amazingly well with little problems whilst using blacks but it does appear that most extreme streamers don't use blacks. There was another topic on this about a week ago, let me find it.

here: t/92602
Frizz
ITT: Mechanical keyboards

Also any and all MX Cherry switches have the same travel distance. And I heard mechanical keyboards which use MX Cherry Red are harder to find compared to any other switches.

On a side note, I don't even think that this thread belongs to General Development.
lolcubes

Frizz925 wrote:

On a side note, I don't even think that this thread belongs to General Development.
Moved and merged.
druidxd

Wishy22 wrote:

Frizz925 wrote:

However the combination of their high actuation force and close operating/reset points make them easier for double tapping. I've tried Blacks myself and they're much better than Blues for me.

Also don't forget that val0108 uses Blacks too.
Black switches are HARD to press, which reduces your potential endurance.
So ffin true, I bought a 6g v2 (that I found by luck in Spanish layout in an Argentine store) and, while it's better than rubber dome kbs, it really is difficult to pass long/really long streams that are >= than 200bpm, i'm also not that good at streaming, but I can "deathstream" at 210-220 bpm at least until my fingers "die"

I wasn't able to try blue, brown or red just 'cause of the fact that I live in Argentina and it's really expensive to buy mechanical keyboards here and the gamma of mechanical kbs is really low, pretty much you only have BlackWidows or 6gv2s (blue and black).
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