dong wrote:

is this something that has EVER happened in the game's history?

Probably yes, but tying to find that out would take a long time. In any case, it is very possible to happen so it should be taken into consideration.

dong wrote:

edit: cases like (Short ver.) (Sped up ver.) can already exist under current rules if "(Short ver.)" is already in the official metadata

No they can't because there are no rules about (Speed Up Ver.)

But sped up ver. is clearly editing how the song sounds just like "(GoldenWolf edit)". I can see your proposal for getting "Sped up ver." standardised - do you think that if someone speeds up a song that has (Short ver.) or (TV Size) already in the metadata that either of them should be removed?

dong wrote:

But sped up ver. is clearly editing how the song sounds just like "(GoldenWolf edit)". I can see your proposal for getting "Sped up ver." standardised - do you think that if someone speeds up a song that has (Short ver.) or (TV Size) already in the metadata that either of them should be removed?

Yes of course because if you speed up a specific version of the song (like TV Size) it's not that version anymore so there's no need to keep the TV Size marker

Serizawa Haruki wrote:

dong wrote:

But sped up ver. is clearly editing how the song sounds just like "(GoldenWolf edit)". I can see your proposal for getting "Sped up ver." standardised - do you think that if someone speeds up a song that has (Short ver.) or (TV Size) already in the metadata that either of them should be removed?

Yes of course because if you speed up a specific version of the song (like TV Size) it's not that version anymore so there's no need to keep the TV Size marker

And so if you cut the full version of the song it is no longer the full version of the song

Serizawa Haruki wrote:

Yes of course because if you speed up a specific version of the song (like TV Size) it's not that version anymore so there's no need to keep the TV Size marker

dong wrote:

And so if you cut the full version of the song it is no longer the full version of the song

I don't think speeding up a song can be compared to cutting it, also the difference is that there is usually no label for full versions, but there is for official shorter ones, I don't think this is really related to the double marker thing

i don't agree with you that speeding up a specific version of a song somehow means that any given official metadata marker for that version should be removed, by the way. you can speed up multiple different versions of a song. in which case, multiple markers is appropriate.

dong wrote:

i don't agree with you that speeding up a specific version of a song somehow means that any given official metadata marker for that version should be removed, by the way. you can speed up multiple different versions of a song. in which case, multiple markers is appropriate.

I feel like it's irrelevant whether it's a speed up of the full or short version but in any case it's super rare so no big deal. Cuts however are much more common so the double markers are kinda problematic

Serizawa Haruki wrote:

I feel like it's irrelevant whether it's a speed up of the full or short version but in any case it's super rare so no big deal. Cuts however are much more common so the double markers are kinda problematic

cuts are much more common, but you couldn't find me an example of a cut down full version that isn't an existing official version? i mean, the reason you couldn't find one is of course because it would be completely illogical to cut a "full version" of a song when an official shorter version already exists... Of course it could happen but i think mappers should be discouraged from doing that (i put a post in this thread addressing this). In any case, if you cut a song in such a way, then it just becomes (Cut ver.), but I seriously think you are misrepresenting how common such a case would be, like I can't see this happening unless a mapper was being a total clown on purpose, or if the two official cuts that you make your own cut between are like 15 minutes apart.

dong wrote:

Serizawa Haruki wrote:

I feel like it's irrelevant whether it's a speed up of the full or short version but in any case it's super rare so no big deal. Cuts however are much more common so the double markers are kinda problematic

cuts are much more common, but you couldn't find me an example of a cut down full version that isn't an existing official version? i mean, the reason you couldn't find one is of course because it would be completely illogical to cut a "full version" of a song when an official shorter version already exists... Of course it could happen but i think mappers should be discouraged from doing that (i put a post in this thread addressing this). In any case, if you cut a song in such a way, then it just becomes (Cut ver.), but I seriously think you are misrepresenting how common such a case would be, like I can't see this happening unless a mapper was being a total clown on purpose, or if the two official cuts that you make your own cut between are like 15 minutes apart.

It's not completely illogical, it does happen, here are some examples I could think of:
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/785518
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/583943
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/745312
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/813969
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/780952
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/475538

every single example there can be summed up as cut ver. they are not different to an extended version that has been cut, they are literally the full version of the song from a show or games OST that have been cut short by the user and not in an official way by the artists. if they were it would be something like radio edit or album version or something

you are literally refusing the central point of this entire proposal, that if someone did map an official full version, not extended, but the full version, there is NOTHING in the current systems metadata that would differentiate them from appearing as an un-edited version unless they played it.

this proposal isnt to discourage cut versions, its so that people KNOW what the are playing. you are really clutching at straws to extreme user cases that literally don't exist and are idiotic to even be attempted.

Serizawa Haruki wrote:

It's not completely illogical, it does happen, here are some examples I could think of:
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/785518
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/583943
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/745312
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/813969
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/780952
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/475538

okay, and in all of these examples there should be a tag because otherwise i would have absolutely no idea that what I was playing was not actually the full version of the song.I don't see what is wrong with having "(Cut ver.)" in the titles of these songs. There is no contradiction.

i'll just chime in with a quick opinion here in case it hasn't been said since i couldn't keep up with how long this thread is. so if trying to differentiate cuts is basically impossible wouldn't adding a (Extended Ver.) or (Full Ver.) marker to full versions or something along that line be best in that case and just have no markers on cuts? or would that not solve the problem at all? because either way you would be adding an unofficial marker and if this is the easier case to define the edge cases for wouldn't it be better to have that instead?

like if there's an existing marker officially your unofficial marker would replace it, as was proven here artists do use (long ver.) (extended ver) ect all in their titles so it wouldn't be too out of place

like i figure it would solve stuff like (Sped Up Ver.) (Cut Ver.) shenanigans and also extensions/cuts i figure would be easy to spot with just a youtube search on the song or something and any edge like those are already discouraged with the 'The audio file of a song should not be artificially extended in order to meet a time limitation in the beatmapset section of this criteria.' guideline, and the cases where people extend songs that are already 5 minute drain times are so obscure that they should be handled on case by case basis as i've never seen anyone do that (if there has been cases like that i would love to know)

Bibbity Bill wrote:

i'll just chime in with a quick opinion here in case it hasn't been said since i couldn't keep up with how long this thread is. so if trying to differentiate cuts is basically impossible wouldn't adding a (Extended Ver.) or (Full Ver.) marker to full versions or something along that line be best in that case and just have no markers on cuts? or would that not solve the problem at all? because either way you would be adding an unofficial marker and if this is the easier case to define the edge cases for wouldn't it be better to have that instead?

like if there's an existing marker officially your unofficial marker would replace it, as was proven here artists do use (long ver.) (extended ver) ect all in their titles so it wouldn't be too out of place

like i figure it would solve stuff like (Sped Up Ver.) (Cut Ver.) shenanigans and also extensions/cuts i figure would be easy to spot with just a youtube search on the song or something and any edge like those are already discouraged with the 'The audio file of a song should not be artificially extended in order to meet a time limitation in the beatmapset section of this criteria.' guideline, and the cases where people extend songs that are already 5 minute drain times are so obscure that they should be handled on case by case basis as i've never seen anyone do that (if there has been cases like that i would love to know)

I don't think we should be adding markers to any official release of a song. If a song has no markers at all then it should be assumed that it is the first and original version of the song (with the exception of TV sizes). In the many cases that artists create longer/shorter versions of their own songs we should use whatever metadata the song artist provides and come up with a way to differentiate unofficial cuts made by the mapper - hence why we changed the proposal from "Short ver." to "Cut ver." for unofficial cuts, as many artists already use the "short" wording for official cuts vs. almost no one calling their own songs "Cut ver."

The official version of the song should be treated as the "default" version of the song.

Nevo coming in

-Anime Edit-, Short ver., TV MIX, TV EDIT, etc. all get put under (TV Size) regardless of what the artists actually labelled the songs as. So osu! on the whole already changes what the artist picked their songs to be. Adding a Cut Ver. to the marker should be within the realm of reason considering there are already rules in place that directly ignore what an artist specifically choose for their metadata. Adding on (Cut Ver.) gets rid of confusion of what version a song is. EXCEPT for those cases where there's different cuts of the same songs XD

KANA-BOON - Nai Mono Nedari By Nevo
KANA-BOON - Nai Mono Nedari By Zhu

THE ORAL CIGARETTES - 5150 By Nevo
THE ORAL CIGARETTES - 5150 By Kagetsu

But on the side of adding the marker being useful!
JIN ft. Shoichi Taguchi (Sentimental Vector) - Kagerou Days By Nevo
JIN ft. Shouichi Taguchi (Sentimental Vector) - Kagerou Days By Nevo

Same song, same bg, same mapper. One's full and one's short so a marker would be nice to tell the difference and not resorting to amazing metadata tricks

Funnily enough in 2012 they actually thought of this

Hatsune Miku - Kagerou Days By m i z u k i
Hatsune Miku - Kagerou Days (Short Ver.) By phonic


tl;dr since we already ignore what the artists sets for their tv size markers we might as well try to use markers to just have quality of life among the playerbase.

HOWEVER HOW DO WE DISTINGUISH DIFFERENT CUTS HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM and what if the artist has cut versions and tv size versions

blobowob

dong wrote:

I don't think we should be adding markers to any official release of a song. If a song has no markers at all then it should be assumed that it is the first and original version of the song (with the exception of TV sizes). In the many cases that artists create longer/shorter versions of their own songs we should use whatever metadata the song artist provides and come up with a way to differentiate unofficial cuts made by the mapper - hence why we changed the proposal from "Short ver." to "Cut ver." for unofficial cuts, as many artists already use the "short" wording for official cuts vs. almost no one calling their own songs "Cut ver."

The official version of the song should be treated as the "default" version of the song.

i mean it would give distinction that it's different from cut vers, it would be easily enforceable in the rc already, it wouldn't cause any ugly double markers, only downside to having a marker like this would be that it would look weird with songs that wouldn't normally be cut and for the whole 'it would look less official' argument but i mean you could say that with any additional markers added to songs in the first place like with adding (TV Size) on songs that don't have it officially (think western cartoon shows and non anime stuff in general that usually end with theme in the title that most people would already recognize as a theme song but needing to add it due to it being from a tv show like https://osu.ppy.sh/s/933621 for example) and editing metadata for standardization since it would be different than what you would search for on official places.

just to me it seems like the most logical solution and more straight forward to implement and to me is sufficient enough to show distinction between different versions of the song since to me that's what i figure the main point of the proposal was in the first place

just a suggestion anyway for this complicated issue since it seems like there isn't gonna be any compromises without sacrifices somewhere and to me it would be better to have the more straight forward and less ambiguous one as the defining one since everyone can agree what's a full ver compared to a cut/edited ver

Bibbity Bill wrote:

i mean it would give distinction that it's different from cut vers, it would be easily enforceable in the rc already, it wouldn't cause any ugly double markers, only downside to having a marker like this would be that it would look weird with songs that wouldn't normally be cut and for the whole 'it would look less official' argument but i mean you could say that with any additional markers added to songs in the first place like with adding (TV Size) on songs that don't have it officially (think western cartoon shows and non anime stuff in general that usually end with theme in the title that most people would already recognize as a theme song but needing to add it due to it being from a tv show like https://osu.ppy.sh/s/933621 for example) and editing metadata for standardization since it would be different than what you would search for on official places.

We should be distinguishing the unofficial cut versions from the official versions here, not the other way around. I mean, the original version of any song should be the most commonly used for mapping, no? I seriously fail to understand why on Earth the original version should have a marker when part of the main purpose of this proposition was to inform the player that what they are playing is or is not the official version of the song.

Nevo wrote:

HOWEVER HOW DO WE DISTINGUISH DIFFERENT CUTS HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM and what if the artist has cut versions and tv size versions

I mean the only solution I can think of to this is to display the length of beatmaps in the beatmap listing and on osu!direct (which I would like to be implemented in addition to this proposal) but that would take until Lazer.

also, how about keep use old tv size metadata like -TV SIZE VERSION- and TV EDIT like official website say? it's because not every tv size is shorter from full version. I give you guys 4 example:

LONG SHOT PARTY - distance:
Full version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VL9KzZKHqU
vs
TV Size: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWNNjIIq4TA

soraru - Gin no Kisei
There is have 2 version, album version and single version, but I take single version one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpAVEc14hbY
vs
TV Size: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtIOVH8OC94

MUCC - Classic
Full version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqSRKha48Qk
vs
TV Size: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwOl8yU1jfE

Mrs. GREEN APPLE - Speaking
Full version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KUA-1DvQZk
vs
TV Size: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOJ1AK3q1FE (I can't found better one so yeah)

Its true if TV Size is shorter from full version, but after I thinking again when found some of that, I disagree if TV Size is shorter of Full Version. Why?
1. There is some singer accidentally made a different TV version and Full version of their song
2. Ever you can cut it from full version, that's also not same and look like force cutting
3. It's doesn't matter if the pitch is same or not, the melody is same or not, the rhythm is same or not, TV Size is TV Size, Short Version is Short Version, Full Version is Full Version.

also, I found this from LiSA Official Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7Oi2h-vKFI

In this case, we know if LiSA always use -MUSiC CLiP YouTube EDIT ver.- or (Short Version) for every his song. But on crossing field, use marker it as "(TV Size)", not "(Short Version)".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwkzK-F0Y00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-FvkYM6jYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeEIl4JlE-g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pudLJ-L9ZI8

Everyone can cut it to make it look like TV Size. But, also there is some of anime song its make different like full version, like soraru - Gin no Kisei.

https://kittyadventure20.s-ul.eu/Sy7TyKHT
https://kittyadventure20.s-ul.eu/1KzuN90j

I bought that on 2018 and when I check it, it's really different, especially in the vocal parts, which on full version, soraru singing "douuuu "shi" te (shi doesn't really hear clearly and its slower than TV Size one, its proof that soraru recorded more than one times.) and TV Size, soraru siinging "doushite" without "dou" take it long.

Just to test the waters, what are peoples opinions be if we change the marker to something like (Unofficial Cut.) or words to a similar meaning for unofficial cuts and leaving official cuts with the official metadata?

KittyAdventure wrote:

also, how about keep use old tv size metadata like -TV SIZE VERSION- and TV EDIT like official website say? it's because not every tv size is shorter from full version.

this isn't really related much to the proposal, it's a different issue entirely. you're talking about official cuts while this thread is specifically for distinctions to be given to unofficial cuts.

baz wrote:

Just to test the waters, what are peoples opinions be if we change the marker to something like (Unofficial Cut.) or words to a similar meaning for unofficial cuts and leaving official cuts with the official metadata?

I quite like this phrasing actually. Moreso than "(Cut ver.)" as there is less room for multiple tags to stack up all saying "ver."

I don't think (Cut Ver.) its good to use because its cut like TV Size or fade out like that?

KittyAdventure wrote:

I don't think (Cut Ver.) its good to use because its cut like TV Size or fade out like that?

We are talking about song which have been manually cut by the mapper or someone else specifically for osu!, not official cuts (which is the case for TV Size)

wouldnt you also want it on official cut vers that dont have it, since the point of this is not to bait people with the song title implying the full thing but its actually an evil 1 minute cut masquerading as a full song

Applying it to official stuff is a muddy area cause it's not uncommon for it to be unclear whether the shorter version is cut or if the longer version is extended.

Nao Tomori wrote:

wouldnt you also want it on official cut vers that dont have it, since the point of this is not to bait people with the song title implying the full thing but its actually an evil 1 minute cut masquerading as a full song

Hence why i think "(Unofficial cut)" is a good idea, only problem is character limit.

dont really agree, songs are not "extended" by the artists, either they loop or there is actually just new stuff added to it / remastered / etc. if it's a loop then it's not the full version and if its new stuff then it is the full version and the short one is cut (unless full is released after but yeah). we already change official metadata in the first place for tv size.

https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/687879#osu/1455779 for example here's a 30s cut which was literally released as a 25 second preview of the song (then extended to be rankable), it's exactly what you guys are complaining about with this post, but it wouldn't get targeted by the rule lol. however, if i cut the full song to 1:30 to mimic a tv size (that full song is 5 minutes long) i would be adding cut ver. it doesn't really make sense to add tv size to things and not cut ver to officially released short versions too because they fundamentally serve the same purpose.

the discussion about including for official cuts too seems valid but I don't think it's in the scope of this change. for unofficial cuts, the issue brought up was unclear meaning of "significant cut", can we clarify that and get this in?

dong wrote:

a significant cut to me would start at cutting off an entire verse, chorus, solo, movement, etc. from the mp3. whether people disagree with me on that or not can continue to be argued.

this looks fine to me, if a bit silly that it needs a definition (I have doubts that it lies beyond common sense, and why would anyone bother making an "insignificant cut" anyway)

hi! sorry for not keeping up - since my last postings, the next semester at my uni started!

the only reason i didn't specify anything for official cuts is because it's an artist problem and not a mapper one, but i'm for differentiating them.

either way, i think it would be beneficial for a ruling which applies to unofficial cuts to be pushed through and if official cuts remain a large problem, tackle it separately.

This is just the standard for most rhythm games when they use music and it's not the official full length. I don't agree with this proposal at all aside from mixes which could be "remixes" and are usually always noted when it comes down to metadata. Also at the same time this further goes down the line of unofficial metadata and stuff like such. The song is still the base song and has nothing really changed about the core other than it's size being cus to a desirable amount and it's not like people can't already see the song length when downloading a map. It's quite a trivial discussion though if it's still being held.

ok ill be honest i dont know what's going on in this thread anymore. the things serizawa pointed out as problems were discussed and stalemated immediately with no budge on either side, so there's not much i can do besides just... putting up the pr for what's in the op and praying people find it okay? the only thing changed since then was the definition of "significant cut" but there's a lot more conversation about other things that isn't addressed with changes (either becuase they're unnecessary or nobody knows what to do)

so i'll ask again, what's the biggest concerns left with implementing this?

don't make it apply to official stuff since the difference between short/long versions as to whether the shorter version is a (Short Ver.) or the long version is an (Extended Ver.) can be quite ambiguous

keep it to unofficial cuts only

not sure if there's other concerns considering there's been no replies for 2 weeks oh no

apologies, now that my semester is over i can pay attention to this again, lol

the problem mainly would be the redundancy of tags between two different cut versions by different people of different lengths - i argue that it's important just to specify that it is not an official version and so the tag remains useful, but it's up for debate.

if an outro that is <20% of the track remains unmapped, and is therefore not cut from the song, the metadata should stay the same. if the mp3 is edited, then "cut ver." should be added.

there might be a problem with songs where there's an official extended version, and someone makes a cut of that which is longer than the original version - is this a cut to the extended version or an extenstion to the original that's not the official one (cases like this in beatmaps are absolutely ridiculous and speak volumes to the lengths to which people will go to get around length restriction but still a problem lol)

similarly, is "cut. ver" really the best wording? is "edit" better? something else? because of the reason i listed just above, if we take this marker to signify that the mp3 has been edited by the mapper in some way

yes, i think that an official cut's metadata should be left as-is

my responses are in bold below:

Noffy wrote:

don't make it apply to official stuff since the difference between short/long versions as to whether the shorter version is a (Short Ver.) or the long version is an (Extended Ver.) can be quite ambiguous

keep it to unofficial cuts only

sounds reasonable, we can stick with that

dong wrote:

apologies, now that my semester is over i can pay attention to this again, lol

the problem mainly would be the redundancy of tags between two different cut versions by different people of different lengths - i argue that it's important just to specify that it is not an official version and so the tag remains useful, but it's up for debate.

what is an example of redundancy of tags in this case? i'm not sure i understand

if an outro that is <20% of the track remains unmapped, and is therefore not cut from the song, the metadata should stay the same. if the mp3 is edited, then "cut ver." should be added.

i assume this logic would change depending on the outcome of https://osu.ppy.sh/community/forums/topics/996498 ?

there might be a problem with songs where there's an official extended version, and someone makes a cut of that which is longer than the original version - is this a cut to the extended version or an extenstion to the original that's not the official one (cases like this in beatmaps are absolutely ridiculous and speak volumes to the lengths to which people will go to get around length restriction but still a problem lol)

i personally dont think we need to account for such rare exceptions. keeping original metadata for 1 in 1000 beatmaps is fine to me. if someone actually does this weird idea, we can account for it at the time

similarly, is "cut. ver" really the best wording? is "edit" better? something else? because of the reason i listed just above, if we take this marker to signify that the mp3 has been edited by the mapper in some way

edit makes me think of a song being edited (like remixes) so i'd stick with cut, dunno if it's just me with that perception though

yes, i think that an official cut's metadata should be left as-is

is the wording in the op what we'd be going with? it seems to hit all the bases still but i want to be sure

As pishi said, many issues haven't been addressed with changes, either because no solution was found or because the creator of the proposal didn't agree with it. However, there are also some things where they agreed but didn't apply the necessary changes, for example the point about cutting songs with (Full Ver.) markers:

I wrote:

From a logical point of view, yes the (Full Ver.) or (Long Ver.) marker should be removed, however that is unrankable under the current rules so you'd have to make an amendment for that as well.

There is lots of other stuff that came to no conclusion though and shouldn't be swept under the carpet.

hello again endless thread, i'm here to ask what needs to be done to get this in the ranking criteria

if things don't go anywhere again, it'll be time to archive i think because this has been going nowhere for monthssssss

Serizawa Haruki wrote:

As pishi said, many issues haven't been addressed with changes, either because no solution was found or because the creator of the proposal didn't agree with it.

gimme list of these

Serizawa Haruki wrote:

However, there are also some things where they agreed but didn't apply the necessary changes, for example the point about cutting songs with (Full Ver.) markers:

I wrote:

From a logical point of view, yes the (Full Ver.) or (Long Ver.) marker should be removed, however that is unrankable under the current rules so you'd have to make an amendment for that as well.

gimme list of these too

Hello once again! It's been a good while since I've been able to direct my attention towards this thread so please forgive me if I get some things wrong.

I think it would be beneficial to lay out clearly where this proposal stands as of now, in March 2020 (lol)

- mp3s which have been cut down from an official version of the song by the mapper should be marked with "Cut ver."
- mp3s which have been extended from an official version of the song by the mapper should be marked with "Extended ver."
- the official metadata should always take precedence if the mp3 is official, even if two different official versions have the same metadata, unless it is found appropriate to change it ("TV size" rules apply here?) - I'm thinking of, for example, songs in DDR which have been cut down to under 2 minutes for the purpose of the game, but it is not stated in the official metadata. this is not a cut by the mapper and therefore it has no bearing on this proposal so long as the source is correctly attributed.

Let me reiterate: my entire proposal refers only to mp3s cut by the mapper or someone else made specifically for mapping in osu!. The metadata should make clear how the mp3 has been edited and go some way as to how it has been edited.

There arises a problem where an mp3 is edited somehow in between a shorter official version of the song and an existing official longer version of the song. In my opinion, a song should be considered as "Extended" if it extends the longest official version of the song. A short version is an edit of the mp3 that cuts the song to be shorter than the official shortest version of the song, within reason (if there's some random, obscure preview of the song released somewhere, that shouldn't count, and discretion should be used). Between these two extremes exists an "edit" or "unofficial" tag, maybe? anyone can feel free to agree or disagree with this if they have a better proposal. i am not sure how common this state is in modern mapping.

good proposal

How would this rule interact with say

The audio file of a song should not be artificially extended in order to meet a time limitation in the beatmapset section of this criteria. This can include (but is not limited to) looping sections of the audio file, lowering the BPM of the song or section of the song, or adding small amounts of music to the song without incorporating it throughout the entire song. This does not apply to song compilations or audio files less than the minimum rankable beatmapset length.

Or


If you do not beatmap the last 20% of your beatmapset's audio file, it must be cut. The intro time is not included. This does not apply if more than 20% of the outro is occupied by a storyboard/video.

Id assume its pretty straight forward but there may be some edge cases?

Sparhten wrote:

How would this rule interact with say

The audio file of a song should not be artificially extended in order to meet a time limitation in the beatmapset section of this criteria. This can include (but is not limited to) looping sections of the audio file, lowering the BPM of the song or section of the song, or adding small amounts of music to the song without incorporating it throughout the entire song. This does not apply to song compilations or audio files less than the minimum rankable beatmapset length.

This would continue to not be allowed (i actually mistakenly thought it was given someone said "what about if someone does this as has happened on some maps") - was this a recent change to the RC? either way, no change to this rule, but if it suddenly were to be allowed, there would need to be a denomination in the title.

Sparhten wrote:

If you do not beatmap the last 20% of your beatmapset's audio file, it must be cut. The intro time is not included. This does not apply if more than 20% of the outro is occupied by a storyboard/video.

if someone cuts more than 20% off the end of their beatmap in order to comply with this ruling, then my proposal will come into effect, and a denomination will be required in the title (less than 20% you'd surely just not cut the song and have an end skip, right? then it's fine)

dong's responses make sense based on my interpretation of the rule

does anyone have issues with the proposal? if not i'll submit a pr

Sparhten wrote:

If you do not beatmap the last 20% of your beatmapset's audio file, it must be cut. The intro time is not included. This does not apply if more than 20% of the outro is occupied by a storyboard/video.

dong wrote:

if someone cuts more than 20% off the end of their beatmap in order to comply with this ruling, then my proposal will come into effect, and a denomination will be required in the title (less than 20% you'd surely just not cut the song and have an end skip, right? then it's fine)

I'm a bit confused by this answer considering last time you said that the rule would not apply in this case:

dong wrote:

yeah, I can compromise if this is done specifically because the outro is a looping part of the music and you wish to cut it to meet that 20% threshold.

Anyway, the main problem about this proposal is still the huge contradiction that would result from it. With the introduction of (Cut Ver.), players are expecting songs without any markers to be the full version, but official cuts that don't include any markers such as (Short Ver.) would not be distinguishable and therefore misleading, for example beatmapsets/964002 has the same metadata as beatmapsets/132392.

dong wrote:

A short version is an edit of the mp3 that cuts the song to be shorter than the official shortest version of the song, within reason (if there's some random, obscure preview of the song released somewhere, that shouldn't count, and discretion should be used).

This is also conflicting because it would mean that cuts from the full version of a song would not be covered by the rule. Besides, cutting TV size songs or other versions of similar length is generally discouraged so this point doesn't really make sense I think.

Another problem is the (Extended Ver.) marker. Some songs have this marker in their official metadata source, for example beatmapsets/551831. How would you distinguish officially extended versions with this marker from unofficially extended ones?

This leads back to my previous point about already existing markers like (Full Ver.) needing to be removed when cutting said version. This sort of exceptions would need to be addressed in the wording of the rule.

All in all, the implementation of this rule would cause more harm than good.