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A quick concern about the new toggles

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theMikeAG
308 posts
Joined September 2010
Topic Starter
theMikeAG

Ephemeral wrote:

most likely, yes.

however, you can simply play the maps briefly for him beforehand and disable the skins before allowing him to play.
The skin toggle doesn't affect the background in anyway and there is no way I'm going to suggest that peppy add a background toggle. He would come to my house with a baseball bat! :o

alternatively, maps should not have backgrounds that are overtly questionable (or ecchi), so hit any of the staff up if you find a map with a background that you may find objectionable for whatever reason. it is difficult to have this control delegated to someone else and I can understand that, but problematic maps should not be entering the rankings to begin with.
My main problem here is that people simply have different standards. For instance, I personally avoid any material (Osu! or otherwise) that depicts massive breasts, even if nothing is exposed. However some people don't see any problem with that, so... I'm so out of luck if I can't take things into my own hands. :(
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,936 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral
a valid point, if you can't remove the background, you can at least reduce it to 10% visibility, i believe.

little solace, but there's nothing else that can really be done, i am afraid.
ouranhshc
2,338 posts
Joined July 2009
ouranhshc

Ephemeral wrote:

a valid point, if you can't remove the background, you can at least reduce it to 10% visibility, i believe.

little solace, but there's nothing else that can really be done, i am afraid.
question: does the background just have to have the same name, or is it actually checking the file size?
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,936 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral
it'll likely be a checksum of all map elements, changing a single thing of any map-related element will change the checksum and invalidate the map

i am no developer though, don't take my word for it. that's just what i would do.
winber1
4,520 posts
Joined February 2010
winber1
Allowing to edit backgrounds allows you to just make it black, which completely destroys the purpose of what peppy has been doing.

Also, people generally don't really add super echii backgrounds nowadays. To be honest, I don't feel like it would be a huge problem if you pay a little attention. If you really need to play a map with such a background, well I guess you are going to have to figure something out yourself like Ephemeral kinda said. (Unless peppy decides to do something, which I don't think he will lol)
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,936 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral
like I said earlier, if there are some really questionable maps that somehow slip through the hundred-something members of staff that now handle beatmap submission and ranking, hit one of us up with the details and we'll see what we can do about having the background changed.

osu! is supposed to be all-ages and that is as much a part of the criteria as the more technical things
thelewa
3,537 posts
Joined August 2010
thelewa
The problem is that some of the staff members don't necessarily understand that osu! is supposed to be an all-ages game. At least that's what it feels like.
Mithos
636 posts
Joined February 2011
Mithos
I would be fine with no BG toggle if the BG was appropriate, or had a replacement that was allowed by the ruleset.
Kurokami
osu! Alumni
4,024 posts
Joined February 2010
Kurokami

Mithost wrote:

I would be fine with no BG toggle if the BG was appropriate, or had a replacement that was allowed by the ruleset.
peppy and a baseball bat
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes
^Only applies to updates already added.
YodaSnipe
1,378 posts
Joined February 2011
YodaSnipe
NSFW <3
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,393 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan

Mithost wrote:

I think so. In most cases this game is at LEAST 16+ age wise.
This is one of the things what people don't understand.
I understand theMikeAG's statement, but things like NSFW Elements or SBs sometimes does not make this to a children-friendly place IMO.
However, to add a rule about a minimum of the age would be ridiculous. And easy to avoid.

And if you think about this, young children should not spend time in osu! an go out to play with other children.
ouranhshc
2,338 posts
Joined July 2009
ouranhshc

TheNutritiousGuy wrote:

And if you think about this, young children should not spend time in osu! an go out to play with other children.
not necessarily, the only time i play osu! is in my room and in places where people can't see my screen because of BGs. and I'm 18
Mithos
636 posts
Joined February 2011
Mithos
We shouldn't have to limit our playerbase to players ages 16 and up just so a few people can use ecchi backgrounds (which are never the only choice) in their maps. There are Ecchi skins you can use if you want to play osu! with those graphics there. If it wasn't for these backgrounds, I know half a dozen cousins/friends' siblings that are addicted to rhythm games and would be more than happy to pick this up.
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,936 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral
is this problem really as prevalent as this thread makes it seem? such quantities of questionable beatmap elements should not be passing through the MAT/BAT

anyone mind linking a few of the maps in question?
Backstabber
75 posts
Joined March 2011
Backstabber
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/24315
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/11947
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/29864
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/19882
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/18729

I don't really mind having ecchi bg's on maps that allow it (all nightcore maps basically). A toggle would be nice but I see how that would not happen. The only problem with the BG's now is that you will not be able to delete them. I think you will have to either ban all echhi BGs (not wanted) or add an option of some sort for those who want something more "SFW".
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes
>Epilepsy Warning
>Ecchi Warning
Mithos
636 posts
Joined February 2011
Mithos

Backstabber wrote:

http://osu.ppy.sh/s/24315
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/11947
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/29864
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/19882
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/18729

I don't really mind having ecchi bg's on maps that allow it (all nightcore maps basically). A toggle would be nice but I see how that would not happen. The only problem with the BG's now is that you will not be able to delete them. I think you will have to either ban all echhi BGs (not wanted) or add an option of some sort for those who want something more "SFW".
I love how most of these are in official downloadable beatmap packs, and most monthly charts (not themed) have one or two of these backgrounds (or something like it).

I did some searching and I could find no rule/guideline talking about the content of backgrounds. You probably couldn't make a gore or cp background get through, but Ecchi and the such is not exactly implied.
Kurokami
osu! Alumni
4,024 posts
Joined February 2010
Kurokami

Backstabber wrote:

http://osu.ppy.sh/s/24315
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/11947
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/29864
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/19882
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/18729

I don't really mind having ecchi bg's on maps that allow it (all nightcore maps basically). A toggle would be nice but I see how that would not happen. The only problem with the BG's now is that you will not be able to delete them. I think you will have to either ban all echhi BGs (not wanted) or add an option of some sort for those who want something more "SFW".
What is the problem with girls in swimsuit? o.o If you go to a beach you will see even more. Or your brother, or whatever.
The Ass Up is okay tho. :o
Mithos
636 posts
Joined February 2011
Mithos
It's a problem to parents watching their children playing video games. osu! shouldn't present a problem with parents that are watching out for their children for whatever reason. Young teenagers should be able to play osu! without looking over their shoulder, watching for parents. Older players might not find a problem with themselves playing with these backgrounds, but most sites with images in those beatmaps are labeled "Mature Content" or "For ages 18+". I know at least the mangas with it is rated M. :/
theMikeAG
308 posts
Joined September 2010
Topic Starter
theMikeAG

Kurokami wrote:

What is the problem with girls in swimsuit? o.o If you go to a beach you will see even more. Or your brother, or whatever.
The Ass Up is okay tho. :o
That's just my point; people's standards are different. I personally find it ridiculous that women will wear less clothing on the beach than what they wear at night. I avoid looking at girls in swimsuits period.

Backstabber wrote:

...add an option of some sort for those who want something more "SFW".
This gave me an interesting idea. I wonder if it would be possible for beatmaps to have an alternate background if you will. If the content of one offends you, then you could download the other. And maybe we could request alternate backgrounds from the beatmapper himself. That way, you still enjoy the map the way the mapper intended, it's just a secondary way.
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,936 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral
alternate backgrounds? interesting prospect. i'll raise that with the development team and see what they think.
Mithos
636 posts
Joined February 2011
Mithos

theMikeAG wrote:

Kurokami wrote:

What is the problem with girls in swimsuit? o.o If you go to a beach you will see even more. Or your brother, or whatever.
The Ass Up is okay tho. :o
That's just my point; people's standards are different. I personally find it ridiculous that women will wear less clothing on the beach than what they wear at night. I avoid looking at girls in swimsuits period.

Backstabber wrote:

...add an option of some sort for those who want something more "SFW".
This gave me an interesting idea. I wonder if it would be possible for beatmaps to have an alternate background if you will. If the content of one offends you, then you could download the other. And maybe we could request alternate backgrounds from the beatmapper himself. That way, you still enjoy the map the way the mapper intended, it's just a secondary way.
From page 1:
How about an option to download a "G rated" background instead of the normal one? I already use the "without video" download if I think there will be anything mature in them.
I support a secondary background for younger players/people who don't want to see the normal backgrounds. It would be the mapper's choice of a background (keeping it "play it how the mapper wanted you to"), and adding a secondary one would be at request of a modder or a MAT/BAT. Add the secondary BG as a guideline, add a button (or an account setting) to download the "G Rated" BG, and poof. Problem solved.

I remember complaining about this a year or two ago and all I got was "That map isn't that bad, most of the anime openings have things twice as Ecchi". That didn't solve my problem. Glad someone else is on board.
peppy
19,301 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy
Please don't play maps with images that disturb you. Usually there will be a warning on the beatmap info page, or you can tell from the thumbnail.

In the OP's case, you will need to delete said maps. End of story. If there are specific maps you would like to take up re: their background, post in the said maps' threads.

Keep in mind most of the linked maps above involve images of humans in swimsuits. This is not considered to be adult content. If you are offended by such images, please restrain yourself from playing the maps.
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,936 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral
additionally, i have also raised the issue of proper assessment for the backgrounds of maps entering the ranking, and i trust that some newer more appropriate rules regarding this will come into play soon in the future, which we may be applying retroactively to some of the more problematic maps.
Mithos
636 posts
Joined February 2011
Mithos
Thanks Eph. I kinda expected peppy's take would be "Don't play the songs you like if they have visual elements you don't like". That should be osu!'s motto IMO
Kurokami
osu! Alumni
4,024 posts
Joined February 2010
Kurokami

theMikeAG wrote:

I avoid looking at girls in swimsuits period.
O.O
theMikeAG
308 posts
Joined September 2010
Topic Starter
theMikeAG
Thanks peppy for making things clear.

I've also got to thank Ephemeral for supporting this thread and raising issues that I didn't think would be raised.
Thankfully, the two maps I've linked to earlier are the only ones I've had to edit, so not being able to edit backgrounds anymore shouldn't be a major loss.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo

peppy wrote:

Keep in mind most of the linked maps above involve images of humans in swimsuits. This is not considered to be adult content. If you are offended by such images, please restrain yourself from playing the maps.
Can you really say that about image sets like what http://osu.ppy.sh/s/11947 ? Sorry but that's not just "humans in swimsuits". It's entirely NSFW by all means.
My 14 year old sister plays the piano real well and also enjoys some video games, but I wouldn't recommend osu to her so that she won't think I'm playing some japanese pedo game because of a lot of BGs the game uses (lately I just started removing those maps from my songs folder so that they won't show up on random at all).
Espionage724
876 posts
Joined August 2011
Espionage724

Aqo wrote:

peppy wrote:

Keep in mind most of the linked maps above involve images of humans in swimsuits. This is not considered to be adult content. If you are offended by such images, please restrain yourself from playing the maps.
Can you really say that about image sets like what http://osu.ppy.sh/s/11947 ? Sorry but that's not just "humans in swimsuits". It's entirely NSFW by all means...
I was just about to mention that beatmap, but looks like it was already done :p Probably the most NSFW beatmap I've ever seen. The alternate bgs idea would be pretty cool for beatmaps like this though, or just tone it down a bit
Mithos
636 posts
Joined February 2011
Mithos
If you look for about 2 minutes on "Google Chrome Theme Gallery", you would see some "humans in swimsuits" that would get you kicked off a school computer, fired/punished at work, etc etc. Why does osu! have the ability to get you in trouble at school for the same reasons?
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Ekaru

Kurokami wrote:

What is the problem with girls in swimsuit? o.o If you go to a beach you will see even more.
Where I live? No, not really. You may see some normal cleavage, but that's usually it; swimsuits here almost always adequately cover the sides and bottom of a woman's boobies. This is because that's how swimsuits are designed, and most women here like to pick swimsuits that fit. You may see the occasional bakini, but that's it.

Many of the swimsuits he linked are realistic, but a couple are essentially just nipple covers. I say keep the realistic swimsuits, but the nipple covers should be a no-no for what should be fairly obvious reasons (i.e. being way out of place in a rhythm game).

Really, the skimpiest swimsuits really are mostly reserved for sluts and pornstars. That's just where I live, though.
Cho_old
Cho_old

Mithost wrote:

Why does osu! have the ability to get you in trouble at school for the same reasons?
Here's an idea, try not playing osu in school where you're supposed to be learning.

Stupid ideas like this wouldn't pop up if that happened more.

YodaSnipe wrote:

NSFW <3
Because funnily enough I play osu at home, not at work or school.
Kurokami
osu! Alumni
4,024 posts
Joined February 2010
Kurokami

Ekaru wrote:

Really, the skimpiest swimsuits really are mostly reserved for sluts and pornstars. That's just where I live, though.
I lol'd but its true. I know they are not the best backgrounds, but I think they are fit to the music.

On topic: Since until now I not say my own opinion, I write here right now. Since I like this kind of bgs and I'm old enough i don't care about them, but this game is for everyone so I think a toggle to change bg and a plus bg in the beatmap folder will be a good option. If the secondary bg's name is unchangeable, I mean like the skin elements name, this shouldn't be too much problem. "Secondary_bg.jpg" for example. Just as Ephemeral wrote.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo

Mithost wrote:

Why does osu! have the ability to get you in trouble at school for the same reasons?
If you need the ethos for this, making osu more sfw and ecchi-free would make it more accessible and more desirable to play for a larger audience. Even if you like those backgrounds, I'm sure they're not the reason you enjoy the game, and you can just view them as images on your own. However for people who are bothered by those images for one reason or another, it hurts the accessibility to this game.

Generally speaking, even as a 21yo, I try to hide away the fact I play osu from my roommates (or more like, use two songs folders), so that they don't think I'm into japanese fetishes. Asking to remove anime OP videos from anime op songs would be stupid because it actually fits there, but how the hell do minimally dresses girls with emphasized body parts relate to "nightcore"? It has absolutely no connection.

Calling that "girls in swimsuits" is just not wanting to deal with an issue. There's a very clear and big difference between just a girl in a swimsuit and a girl in a sexually suggestive position/camera angle.
Kurokami
osu! Alumni
4,024 posts
Joined February 2010
Kurokami

Aqo wrote:

Generally speaking, even as a 21yo, I try to hide away the fact I play osu from my roommates (or more like, use two songs folders), so that they don't think I'm into japanese fetishes. Asking to remove anime OP videos from anime op songs would be stupid because it actually fits there, but how the hell do minimally dresses girls with emphasized body parts relate to "nightcore"? It has absolutely no connection.
Nightcore = loli
loli = those pics
therefore those pics are fit to the music.
And:
I know they are not the best backgrounds, but I think they are fit to the music.
Also if you are afraid from your roommates, then you are baka. Who cares about what the other ppl think? Or if you personally not like those song then not play with them, its simple.
Cho_old
Cho_old

Aqo wrote:

how the hell do minimally dresses girls with emphasized body parts relate to "nightcore"? It has absolutely no connection.
You totally don't understand nightcore then, as far back as nightcore's origins and it's popularity first booming it has *always* had a connection to minimally dressed unrealistic drawings of girls. So yeah, it actually does make sense for that to continue and really, the BGs in osu for nightcore are always mild compared to the others outside of the game.

Also funnily enough I wouldn't want to show my parents or little sister some of the BGs in osu, my solution ? Play other beatmaps when they're here.
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,936 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral
this is not a place to discuss issues of playing questionable beatmaps in the presence of others. such a thing is a personal choice and particularly things of this nature are extremely specific to the individual in question, and is not a topic that is particularly fruitful to pursue.

we are currently investigating a list of problematic maps that have been brought to our attention and have already proceeded to temporarily unrank a few pending further background changes. this should not have become an issue in the first place, and a consensus has been raised to address this more formally at the next meeting of staff.
Mithos
636 posts
Joined February 2011
Mithos
Thank you. :)
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Ekaru
Thanks a lot for this, guys! If anything, I'm satisfied with just Ass Up! being fixed (even if it did take a while >_>), though I remember there being at least two other maps that went through this.
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