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Endaris
If you use a pokemon with acrobatics for competitive you should definitely use a flying gem over no item as the gem will be consumed before the game checks whether or not you hold an item.
EneT
I see, thank you; never knew such an item existed because I stopped playing sometime before the B&W gen. Will do.

Oh Flying Gem is banned in OU tier. Makes sense since it sounds OP as hell.
PyaKura
Except Gems are long gone ever since 6G, so no. Else Acrobatics Talonflame would be a lot more common (it is already the most used set anyways, but Flying Gem is a free nuke able to break past anything that does not resist it).

From my experience I find Taunt on bulky SD Talon to be a bit lackluster versus more offensive teams (which I end up against a lot more frequently than balance or stall) so I like to run Apicot/Salac Natural Gift (ground/fighting) to bait things that normally counters it such as Heatran among other things, but that also means I gotta use Brave Bird for consistency if there is no need for Natural Gift. The former is especially an issue for me so this variant works a bit better for me than regular w/ Taunt, and it basically makes Heatran a setup fodder. Note that I play with a Bulky Offense team which forces a lot of switches to begin with to rack up SR damage and considering that it usually affords to tank a few hits from resisted moves (only issue being if the berry gets accidentally consumed...), I use it to break past through any last Steel wall in my way after SD and Roost if necessary, and finish the sweep with BB spam.

I mean the most common Talon counters and checks are pretty much all weak to Ground and/or Fighting, and the only downside you get fromnot Taunting is maybe getting paralyzed which is meh because Gale Wings anyways.

Overheat is cool if you don't want recoil damage I guess? Idk it sounds iffy but it should work versus Scizor, maybe?
Navizel

EneT wrote:

You should pretty much use Fake Out whenever you can; it has priority+3 and will always flinch the enemy, doesn't matter if it's not effective, it's close to a no counterplay move that can only be used the first turn the user is in battle.
When you're going to win anyway what's the point? Not like Heatran has any priority move and protect isn't really a common move in Singles.

The purpose of the Talonflame is to be a priority attacker and kill the things Mega Lopunny has trouble killing such as Keldeo and Tech Breloom. Reason I don't go BB/Flare Blitz is because Acrobatics along with stealth rock support is enough to OHKO the things I need Talonflame to kill. I also don't need Flare Blitz since I don't really need a fire type move other than the Lava Plume Heatran has; any threat that has a weakness to fire such as Scizor or grass types are walled off by my team, anything else is dealt by Mega Lopunny and Choice Scarf Excadrill. The Talonflame isn't supposed to function as a sweeper, it's a priority user/revenge killer that I need alive to support Mega Lopunny, so unnecessary damage from recoil on a pokemon that is already easy to kill is unneeded. I go for HP EVs instead of Speed EVs because it already has priority with Gale Wings and the HP allows it to be a pivot into steel types forcing them to switch out, believing I have OHKO capability with Flare Blitz.

TL;DR It's a counter to Mega Lopunny's counters.
Also, isn't Overheat a special move? Would be weird to make Talonflame a mixed attacker.
Eh. sounds like a waste of slot. Latios? Gengar? Hawlucha? Zapdos if you will.
Regarding Overheat Tflame.


EneT wrote:

I see, thank you; never knew such an item existed because I stopped playing sometime before the B&W gen. Will do.

Oh Flying Gem is banned in OU tier. Makes sense since it sounds OP as hell.
Gems don't even exist in Gen 6 except for Normal Gem but you're better off using Life Orb than that thing.
EneT

Navizel wrote:

When you're going to win anyway what's the point? Not like Heatran has any priority move and protect isn't really a common move in Singles.

Hi jump kick has a 90% accuracy and I've already been traumatised in missing Leaf Storm twice in a row with Serperior so I ain't risking shit. If it misses then mega lopunny gets one shot and she basically did nothing, you might aswell whittle them down on the off-chance you do miss.

Navizel wrote:

Eh. sounds like a waste of slot. Latios? Gengar? Hawlucha? Zapdos if you will.
None of those have priority moves and nearly every single priority move is physical. All those pokemon are special except for Hawlucha and Zapdos is mostly never used as a sweeper and mostly used as a defensive defogger anyways because it only has 100 base speed and poor move coverage to fit it's typing and stats. The purpose of Talonflame in this team is to outspeed those that outspeed Mega Lopunny; Mega Lopunny has a base speed of 135 and all you listed are slower than that. Taking that into consideration, nothing in OU outspeeds Mega Lopunny apart from Mega Manectric who ties in speed, Choice Scarfers and Priority users.

Suggestions on a better priority user and choice scarfer that checks most of these would be much appreciated because I don't really like having a pokemon with 4x weakness to rock in my team. I haven't delved into UU yet which is actually the primary tier I like to play in so maybe there's a better option there?

Navizel wrote:

Gems don't even exist in Gen 6 except for Normal Gem but you're better off using Life Orb than that thing.
Ah ok, I'll stick to acrobatics for this team though. I use Life Orb BB/Flare Blitz offensive SD Talonflame on my other teams but it has no place in this specific team.

PyaKura wrote:

Except Gems are long gone ever since 6G, so no. Else Acrobatics Talonflame would be a lot more common (it is already the most used set anyways, but Flying Gem is a free nuke able to break past anything that does not resist it).

From my experience I find Taunt on bulky SD Talon to be a bit lackluster versus more offensive teams (which I end up against a lot more frequently than balance or stall) so I like to run Apicot/Salac Natural Gift (ground/fighting) to bait things that normally counters it such as Heatran among other things, but that also means I gotta use Brave Bird for consistency if there is no need for Natural Gift. The former is especially an issue for me so this variant works a bit better for me than regular w/ Taunt, and it basically makes Heatran a setup fodder. Note that I play with a Bulky Offense team which forces a lot of switches to begin with to rack up SR damage and considering that it usually affords to tank a few hits from resisted moves (only issue being if the berry gets accidentally consumed...), I use it to break past through any last Steel wall in my way after SD and Roost if necessary, and finish the sweep with BB spam.

I mean the most common Talon counters and checks are pretty much all weak to Ground and/or Fighting, and the only downside you get fromnot Taunting is maybe getting paralyzed which is meh because Gale Wings anyways.

Overheat is cool if you don't want recoil damage I guess? Idk it sounds iffy but it should work versus Scizor, maybe?
Would you say will-o-wisp is a better option than taunt or do you use an acrobatics-BB combo? I don't like teams that rely on a pokemon that takes half health from switching into stealth rock, not that anyone would do that but it's a hassle to spin/defog it off; adds another element of hassle. I'm actually surprised a pokemon like Talonflame is in OU tier, back in DP days you'd never see a pokemon with a 4x weakness to rock in OU.
Navizel
Hi jump kick has a 90% accuracy and I've already been traumatised in missing Leaf Storm twice in a row with Serperior so I ain't risking shit. If it misses then mega lopunny gets one shot and she basically did nothing, you might aswell whittle them down on the off-chance you do miss.
My point still stands. There's no difference if you use HJK after/before Fake Out. It was a miniscule damage anyway.

The purpose of Talonflame in this team is to outspeed those that outspeed Mega Lopunny
Literally who lmao. Go for Tailwind or something if you're still afraid of that.

Zapdos is mostly never used as a sweeper and mostly used as a defensive defogger anyways because it only has 100 base speed.
Doesn't mean you can't. It has Heat Wave for Breloom and Tbolt for Keldeo. If you really don't want to then go for Thundurus.

I'm actually surprised a pokemon like Talonflame is in OU tier
gale wings
EneT
It still gets hit for half health if you switch it into stealth rock though.

Choice scarfers and priority users outspeed Lopunny. On the team my friend gave I primarily use the choice scarfed Landorus-T to handle Mega Lopunny.

Navizel wrote:

My point still stands. There's no difference if you use HJK after/before Fake Out. It was a miniscule damage anyway.

10% isn't miniscule and a lot of times can decide a game. If High Jump Kick missed lopunny would have died and I would have nothing to beat that Heatran well as it walled the rest of my team apart from Excadrill who was dead. The reason why stealth rock is so good and needed in pretty much every team is because it better guarantees a OHKO so you don't have to rely on a low/high roll on moves that sit on the 80-100% mark. If you don't know what I mean by that, every move does not have a guaranteed set damage, the damage you do is also based on luck because there's a minimum and a maximum and the game rolls to determine what damage you get. Alot of moves sit at the 80-100% damage possibility mark so stealth rock helps with that. That being said, 10% is definitely not miniscule.

Here's a good example I found. As you can see Outrage has a chance of dealing 86.9 - 102.1% damage and by clicking on it you can see the probability of it being OHKO is only 18.8%


Earth quake on the other hand only does 10% more damage but by clicking on it you can see:

It has an 81.3% chance of being an OHKO. It may only be a 10% difference in damage but it's a massive increase in chance so whoever says 10% damage is miniscule in pokemon is wrong.
Navizel
Of course I know lol. Do you really think I don't know that even though I play competitive. Not sure what's the comparison for. Obviously EQ does more cause it's super effective to Raikou. Yeah SR and other entry hazards are annoying but that's why you have Excadrill right? Also without SR Tflame can sweep most of the pokemon in the meta before they can even move because priority Brave Bird.
EneT
Exactly the reason why I chose it as my priority move user.
PyaKura
@EneT yes WoW is a solid spammable move early game when you don't wanna predict switches, but in my case I already have M-Gardevoir as a burn spreader. Really depends on which physical sweepers may cause you trouble though. And no I don't run BB + Acrobatics, the damage difference is negligible and I prefer a situational Natural Gift over replacing any other moves apart from Taunt. But as I said this is only because my team allows me to do so, I have not taken a close look to your team so idk. Taunt is obviously a good move if you are confident you can eliminate what stands in Talonflame's way, unlike me lol.

Also Ho-oh has 4x rocks and was/is Uber. Ninjask back in DPPt was OU (okay, it was a suicide BP lead). Well nowadays a lot of the new Pokémon (including Megas) have either insane stats and/or abilities so the tradeoff is well worth it (off the top of my head Talon and M-Pinsir). I'm only a bit disappointed by the limited number of spinners available to support SR-weak mons as I find Defog clunky to use, especially since I like to lay down mine right off the bat and phaze like a bitch until enough hazard damage is done.
EneT
Okay, thank you.

Ho-oh's overly bulky stats allowed it to switch into SR though and thus made it a must ban, especially if you were running a toxic stall Ho-oh with recover/roost.
Faust
Was facing a few players online through Pokemon Alpha Sapphire after a year of not playing others and god damn is every single team except Japanese people full of Legendaries.

Still managed to woop their asses though.

I did better in Triples than in Doubles, running a team of Garchomp, Aerodactyl, Metagross, Dusknoir, Milotic & (Mega) Kangaskhan.

Aerodactyl having the highest kill rate since I one-shot the flying-type legendaries like Ho-Oh, Yvetal & Rayquaza etc.
Mega Kangaskhan doing a nice job of having explosive damage after bringing in for Retaliate (pretty much kills everything)
followed by Power-Up Punch if I encounter a wall.
Let it have Sucker Punch just in case, and Outrage for sweeping though I wouldn't like Return (Didn't bother to make it max friendly)
EneT

Faust wrote:

Was facing a few players online through Pokemon Alpha Sapphire after a year of not playing others and god damn is every single team except Japanese people full of Legendaries.

Still managed to woop their asses though.

I did better in Triples than in Doubles, running a team of Garchomp, Aerodactyl, Metagross, Dusknoir, Milotic & (Mega) Kangaskhan.

Aerodactyl having the highest kill rate since I one-shot the flying-type legendaries like Ho-Oh, Yvetal & Rayquaza etc.
Mega Kangaskhan doing a nice job of having explosive damage after bringing in for Retaliate (pretty much kills everything)
followed by Power-Up Punch if I encounter a wall.
Let it have Sucker Punch just in case, and Outrage for sweeping though I wouldn't like Return (Didn't bother to make it max friendly)
That's why I don't like wi-fi battles; mostly filled with kids with Uber-tier pokemon, that being said, Mega Kangaskhan is also an Uber-tier pokemon, so using it makes you no better than them. The lower tier you go, the more quality the pokemon battles have so I generally like UU and NU better.
Faust
Except my team isn't entirely consisted of Legendaries, I've faced just about every single combination you can come up with if you mix and match every Legendary there is and I'm not kidding.

That's why I don't really have a hard time with them anymore. I already know what's coming.
The best battles I've had were with the Japs and their tricky line-ups.
They're fucking insane in Triples, I almost can't believe it.
EneT
Just play on the Battle Spot if you want to stop playing against those teams. Battle spot restricts the use of legendaries above 600 base stats but even then, it doesn't restrict bullshit like Speed Boost Blaziken, Aegislash, M-Kangaskhan, M-Mawile, M-Lucario, M-Salamence and Protean Greninja; in turn, it restricts legendaries that aren't even considered bannable or over-powered like Jirachi and Manaphy. Nintendo and the pokemon 3DS scene in general has poor balancing.
Faust
Yup. I have to say the last time I went online I didn't encounter so many same-Pokemon teams.

I pulled out Mega Kangaskan as an alternative to Mega Aerodactyl when I get really sick of it.

I prefer the latter, which is my main offensive sweeper for the team.
Tough Claws + Fly is enough to decimate plenty of non-resistant Pokemon.
Navizel
hahahahaha how the fuck is kangaskhan op hahaha like nigga use gallade hahahahahaha

also Mythical Legendaries are banned cause not everyone can get them.
NaomiMinette
So... gonna break this convo for a moment. This was posted recently:

EneT

Navizel wrote:

hahahahaha how the fuck is kangaskhan op hahaha like nigga use gallade hahahahahaha
That argument is invalid because if that was the case then any fighting type pokemon could beat kangaskhan. It can just fake out dealing 50% health then switch out while Gallade gets OHKO by every single priority user. With your argument you can say that a pokemon like Mewtwo isn't OP because it gets one shot by Sucker Punch which is stupid because it is still OP.

Competitive in DS is a lot less about strategy and more about who can make the best team so in a strategic standpoint, it is very un-balanced. With Smogon rules they take account all strategic and tactical possibilities and balance the game by placing pokemon in tiers. M-Kangaskhan is just OP, well tested by thousands of people by using against other top tier teams and it is a cut above anything in OU, hence why it belongs in Uber class while M-Gallade just borderlines the bottom of OU.
Navizel
except MGallade has Inner Focus and Kang is already dead before it can even switch. Although some are maybe smart enough to go straight for Sucker Punch and if that's the case, you can probably get a free SD.

also that was a joke. Kang is OP yes but Gallade counters her.
Faust
Mega Gallade wouldn't be stopped by Fake-Out yeah and 1 Sucker Punch is still not enough after trading hits unless they op for Shadow Claw or something.
EneT
itsss ya boi Azumarill with the 1744 attack stat
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-422429473

edit:
Also fuck this cancer
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-422454411
NaomiMinette


We're also getting more Sun/Moon news 5 days from now, according to Serebii.
Navizel
La Volpe
So... Pokemon snap is back in Pokemon Sun/Moon?! Awesome!
NaomiMinette
Whoops... forgot to post this:

Faust
I'm fine with extra-terrestrials.
Hika

Blazevoir wrote:

Whoops... forgot to post this:

-snip-
uh oh wtf
Navizel
ayylien waifu is 10/10
NaomiMinette
New JP Sun/Moon trailer (featuring a certain professor):

Navizel
It's an Alolan Form Oak
NaomiMinette
SPOILER
His cousin, actually--Nariya.
Anyway, another theory pic:

Hika

Navizel wrote:

It's an Alolan Form Oak

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Lanturn
CoroCoro should be leaking soon, and we also get more info on September 14th at 22:00 JST which is 14:00 BST, 15:00 CEST, 09:00 EDT, 06:00 PDT, 23:00 AEST (From Serebii)

We will learn about Rockruff's evolution and who knows what else at this point. These couple of weeks are going to be awesome!
PyaKura
Pre-ordered Moon today.

#TeamLunala

From what I have seen in all of those trailers is that GameFreak seems to have found a balance between catering for their usual younger playerbase and keeping the game relevant/interesting for the competitive/older playerbase, and a friend who's dropped the series right after the 3rd Gen has made a lot of good points I probably would not have thought of, since I've been following every main game from the start. I mean Pokémon SuMo, by the looks of it, is still the same colorful world we're all used to for generations, and so kids (and big kids - us, so to say) will most likely have no problem welcoming this new game. But I can't help but think that the content of the game is also aimed at an older audience.

First, Alolan Forms which are exclusively 1st gen critters only : at this point I am pretty sure that it's a good marketing move from GF's part to get returning players who dropped the series years ago. They'll basically rediscover some of their favorite mons - for some people they're the only ones they've ever known - under a new light.
Then, the introduction of a new, seemingly less ridiculous-looking bad guys who do not seem to have any "end-of-the-world"/apocalyptic motives (pure speculation, judging from their appearance only, who knows what they're really up to), similar to what we had with Team Rocket, the Pokémon counterpart of the mafia.
A more immersive game with lots of different camera angles and the loss of the grid-based movements and structure (well, it's still a grid, but it's pretty well camouflaged).
New abilities and mechanics which are all at least interesting, and a lot of seemingly competitively viable ones. More serious players may get a lot more toys to play with if that's the case, despite maybe not having as many new pokémon as with the previous gens. And let's not forget Z-moves.
Elements which I think are more mature and often found in supernatural or sci-fi works : sorcery and rituals and stuff actually being core to the world and not just a gimmick found in one particular location. Hopefully same thing with those chimera-things. They seem to be everything but Pokémon born from nature (are they even Pokémon??), and I can't help but think they're some sort of Pokémon experimentation that didn't go as expected (or they are actually the wanted result? I really can't wait to find out more about those.)

Anyhow those are my current thoughts and although I can make sense out of it, chances are what I've written might be a bit farfetch'd. I'm hyped as fuck right now.
NaomiMinette

Serebii wrote:

The first images from CoroCoro have leaked and have revealed the latest news on Sun & Moon. The name of the Pokémon Rockruff evolves into is Lugarugan and has a different appearance based on if it evolves during daytime or nighttime. Rockruff becomes the Midday Form when bathed in the rays of the sun and when full of the night's power, it becomes the Midnight Form. No types or further details have been given. There are also two Ultra Beasts called UB02, UB02 Beauty and UB02 Expansion. In the scan, it shows UB02 Expansion appearing in Pokémon Sun, facing off against Tapu Koko and UB02 Beauty facing off against Tapu Koko in Pokémon Moon. It also states that UB01's name is a mystery but may have a deep meaning. It also reveals that it will show the true strength of the new Pokémon, Type: Null, during its next issue.

Joe Merrick wrote:

The reason why there are two UB02 is because they're version exclusives. UB02 Expansion to Sun and UB02 Beauty to Moon.
Lanturn
Meanwhile in the anime...

Ash goes to school.
NaomiMinette
In other news, a new series of shorts are coming:

SilverBlade128
Hyped for Pokemon Generations
Navizel

eh
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