forum

...

posted
Total Posts
10
Topic Starter
Almost
Bye bye..
N0thingSpecial
Isn’t this just a long and convoluted way to say pick your skin and practise more at every ar range.
Topic Starter
Almost
Not at all. If you actually read it, you would've known that I actually disagree with playing every AR range. Nor do I mention anything about skinning. This guide simply expresses (in my opinion) best practices when reading or some ideas on how to become more methodical in reading.
SpasticSurgeon
Really well thought out post. I can't believe it hasn't gotten any attention. I really find the topic of reading interesting for the reasons you say ("It’s extremely difficult to measure, fluctuates a lot and has various independent facets") and I've collected the opinions of various people on the forums and youtube.

My favorite part about this guide is that it verifies everything I've come to try and implement into my own gameplay. I heard rohulk talk about his way of reading the notes as they come up, similar to your idea of the "Goldilocks zone" or "queue". This idea makes a lot of sense to me, and when I implement it I feel like I'm playing "properly". I like to think of it as a conveyor belt myself. I've noticed that I feel the most in the zone when I'm reading in that way, but it also takes a lot of focus. Sometimes I want to look at the whole screen because I don't trust myself to be able to hit the pattern without trying to gather more data. However, this is usually counterproductive, because, as you pointed out, I'm trying to gather too much data and end up messing up in the processing or execution step as a result.

I also 100% agree that reading is a lot about focus. When I want to FC consistently, I feel like more than warming up my aim or streams, I just need to focus as much as possible, and that whether or not I FC is often a matter of if I kept my eyes looking at the right stuff. For example, when I start to panic because I'm FCing, I almost always start looking ahead because I "don't want to miss something" and end up moving too fast in execution. In other instances, I will just make my focus very broad. And if the map gets too easy I can lose proper focus and miss on something because I misread it and felt like I could just let my muscle memory do it.

I admit that I'm one of the people that thought AR8 improved reading. Your argument is that most AR8 maps tend to be too easy. However, I think for lower ranked players who are already playing some of the easier maps it can help. Wouldn't you agree?


I want to go into some questions and potential criticisms I have, but it's not to try and undermine what you say, but because I'm honestly curious and want to pick your brain for what you think.

The Model:


I see why you made the model the way you did, and as they say all models are wrong but some are useful. And this is a very useful model. However, I feel like there is some overlap between the steps.

For example, if you overload yourself on information and you mess up, who is to say whether this mess up occured because of your processing or your plan or your execution? Wouldn't an execution mess up be a result of a previous step? Would an execution mess up by itself just be a mechanical error and thus not be related to reading? Overall, the model makes plenty of sense, but I don't fully understand this part.

Moving in a straight line and focusing on one circle:


While I agree that this makes sense most of the time, I believe there are some patterns that most players can partially hit through muscle memory. I know because with certain things, like back and forths for example, your hand knows how to go back and forth between two spots without even looking. Of course this gets trickier the more complex the pattern becomes and the more likely you are to mess it up (like overlapping star pattern that's really close together and comes back in on itself). Of course it is probably almost always better to look, but I get the feeling that you learn an adaptable muscle memory for certain patterns. Even though no two patterns are exactly alike (with some exceptions), I feel like this muscle memory aids a lot in helping you hit things, and in some cases can even be leaned on as soon as you recognize the pattern.

My exhibit A for this is Cookiezi, who has said in his Happystick interview that at this point he just looks at the center of his screen and plays through periphery. Granted, he admits in the same breath that it is more consistent to actually look at the circles, but it's more fatiguing and makes him too tired, which goes along with what you said. Anyway, Cookie probably looked more at circles in the past and built up his reading that way, but the fact that he can play at such a high level now makes it seem like it's a totally viable way to play.

Pattern Recognition/Circle Configurations:


One more thing with Cookiezi from this interview that reinforces my previous point is that Toy and Happy speculate that Cookiezi looks at osu! as a series of patterns in his head, and once he knows how to play a pattern he can (almost) always do it. Cookiezi also talks in this way. To paraphrase, he said something like "If you can't hit it you just aren't good enough, you can't expect to hit harder versions of a pattern if you can't hit easier ones".

Also, it's commonly accepted wisdom that playing many maps and exposing yourself to patterns makes it easier to play things you have never seen before. I personally think that pattern recognition is a big part of reading as well and it doesn't all come down to hitting what's in front of you. I think in the periphery you recognize patterns and prime yourself to hit them in your "queue". This also ties back into muscle memory, because although your hand hasn't done the same motions, it's certainly done similar ones and they will be easier the next time you do them.

However, this particular part doesn't really run counter to your model, but I think it could be integrated with it. Perhaps this could all be included in execution.

Sources:

Cookiezi Interview: https://youtu.be/4-0rZ8YwGnE

Rohulk Interview: https://youtu.be/qDTdc4Onnw8
DXPOHIHIHI
I think everyone who wants to learn how to read low AR should start off with ar 8 don't go off rushing your reading and play maps like oddloop, tewi-ma, (insert other heccin low ar maps)
katielikespp18
Great explanation of reading and how it works. I feel that one thing you were missing here is the mention of rhythmic accuracy as an aspect of reading.

Reading can be considered the comprehension and ability to act on what you can comprehend (in other words, process). That being said, how you understand the rhythm should also be a part of reading. This deserves a mention albeit how subconscious it is -- because you don't have to put much conscious effort into understanding the beat, you just know how to play to the beat after playing for some time and can do it better as you play more. But although it is so much more subconscious than visual reading, it can still be improved. After all, the measure of how much more than others that you improve is based on how you train your subconscious.

With skill in osu! being a largely mechanical or subconscious thing, that means that there are ways to improve how fast your subconscious learns. Pertaining to rhythmic accuracy, you naturally learn how to play to the beat the more you successfully play to the beat. So in order to improve in this area you would have to successfully play to the beat more. This follows the idea that consistency is the best way to improve (any skill as well as consistency in itself). Consistency is composed of every skill as much as every skill is composed of consistency, and thus consistency is the ultimate differentiator--the foundation and peak of your skill.

Although consistency is the best way to refine and differentiate yourself from others of the same skill level, you still need to be challenged in order to make reasonable gains in individual skills. This means increasing your skill level entirely. Consistency will only bring minimal gains in every skill, which includes reading (excluding reading extremes such as AR0 and AR11), and thus cannot solely improve your skill level. This is why consistency is a skill in itself as much as it is a component that makes up every other skill.

Ideally, you want to find a good midpoint between consistency and challenge to improve optimally.



Just adding onto what you said as well as introducing a theory.
Topic Starter
Almost
Thanks for the feedback guys, I took a short hiatus so I didn't notice I got some responses. I'm going to respond to all of it here so bear with me.

@SpasticSurgeon
I'm glad you liked the guide :)

To your question on the overlaps within the model, you are absolutely correct. I tried to separate the steps to make it simpler but many of the processes within each steps overlap with other steps so it was difficult... In terms of mess ups between the steps, that would be based on a case-by-case basis. It could be mess ups in 1 step or in all. It's up to the individual to decide in what ways they screwed up in specific instances.

To your second question on pattern recognition, I think we can all agree that playing as if you are only hitting between individual circles is a lot easier than playing a 'star' or a 'square'. To a new player, when they come across these patterns, they tend to try to play the pattern rather than playing it as it is. A major problem with playing a pattern as a pattern is that it encourages laziness in your reading. Instead of looking at circles individually, you look at the whole and this in turn effects your execution (just look at how many 'squares' are being playing in a circle motion). Your brain likes to take shortcuts wherever possible as it conserves energy.

With your Cookiezi quote, I'd like to think of it more as "If you can't play something then you aren't good enough, you can't expect to play a hard map if you can't even play the easier ones". I don't like to think of it in a pattern based context as just getting better at the game in general would allow you to play better overall. As an example, if I have problems reading a map, I know I'm not good enough to play it. I don't need to pick out all the configurations I had problems reading in that map and practice them specifically to eventually be able to read it. If I just challenge myself overall, eventually I'll be able to just play it. The problem is not in the inability to recognise the pattern effectively but more in other issues of my reading.

But hey, whatever floats your boat right? If you believe that pattern recognition is important to your reading, you can add it in to your process. As I stated initially in the OP, this is the way I read and like to think about reading based on my own experiences. I just simply believe pattern recognition isn't a good first step for newer players.

This leads me to your point on periphery reading. I will just say that reading only through periphery is actually a viable strategy. Many top players do it/have done it and I friend of mine who was rated as one of the best EZ mod players back a couple of years ago told me he too reads through periphery only. I too believe that periphery reading is important to some extent. I don't really clearly mention it in my OP but periphery only reading has the major drawback of more error in your aim/execution (because of eye structure) which is why I discourage it.


@Discuzz
You are absolutely right about the rhythmic reading being left out. I did hint to it a little in "How we read" when I talk about data gathering. It's actually a topic I find pretty curious as the rhythm of the map is majorly dependent on how the mapper mapped the song thus even a lower difficulty map can be more rhythmically difficult to read. I was initially going to add a section on it but I decided against it as the easiest way around this is just to watch auto or a replay of it to get a feel for the rhythm of the map. I will add it onto my to-do list though as I feel there are things I can mention about it.


And to everyone questioning my "AR8 isn't that great for improving reading" comment, I'll elaborate a little. The advice is simply a massive bandage on the actual problem, it doesn't really give any clear advice on what to do. Firstly, being able to read a large range of ARs doesn't really provide big benefits. The way you read different ARs is vastly different. You have different Goldilocks Zones and different ways you store the data in your queue. I liken it to the humorous joke people make about bodybuilders being unable to lift a pebble. There is definitely some cross-over from being able to play the high density low ARs to higher ARs but it's not as important as one might think. As such, you're better off learning to read the AR you find important so you get more practice refining your Goldilocks Zones and queue process for those ARs.

Secondly, reading difficulty comes more from the object density rather than the AR itself. AR8 doesn't necessarily guarantee higher object density versus AR9 (or dare I say AR10). If anything, if you really wanted to reduce the AR and practice reading solely, you're better off dropping the AR (and star difficulty) a lot lower than 8. But, as I mentioned earlier, it's a pretty fruitless activity.

And finally, I want to emphasise that learning and improving upon your reading process is the most important thing above all else. Playing lower ARs on lower difficulties is the best way at getting to know your reading as it gives you more time to really think about how you are reading rather than just blindly reacting on higher ARs. That is not to say that it's not possible to practice reading on higher ARs. If anything, it's better to learn to read on ARs you find most important (which for most people, doesn't involve low ARs) and just put more effort into figuring out the how and what you are doing.

In regards to szkiller's comment, I disagree with that. Learning to play low ARs isn't difficult at all. In fact, everyone can play AR0 to some extent. The difficulty of playing lower ARs is trying to play it on higher star difficulties. If you really want to learn a low AR, just drop the star difficulty until you can actually play it and go from there.
decent
this guide is for dummies, i am beyond dumb to understand this...
Topic Starter
Almost

dxcently wrote:

this guide is for dummies, i am beyond dumb to understand this...
In hindsight, I could've written it more simpler lol
Lights
help, thread titled "reading for dummies", but i don't know how to read so i can't read the post :C
Please sign in to reply.

New reply