Obviously, "flow" is subjective, but this seems to make sense. It might be worth mentioning the importance of changing the overall direction between patterns, because I see a lot of maps which go around and around in an extremely boring way.
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[Guide] Analyzing Flow in Beatmaps
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too lazy to read every words, but read all pics and I agree with those.
But I don't think flow is a thing that can be summaried or recorded utterly. with the time flies every second there is a possibility to creat a new flow pattern
But I don't think flow is a thing that can be summaried or recorded utterly. with the time flies every second there is a possibility to creat a new flow pattern
As a slightly different approach, can we agree that making the spacing too large or small in relation to the slider velocity is really bad for the feel of a map? I believe that if a map is going to have slow sliders, then the spacing of circles shouldn't cause a jarring slow-slow-slow-QUICK-QUICK-slow feel.
so.. err... what's the common bad flow in most of beatmaps you saw?
pattern with extreme angle?
pattern with extreme angle?
Completely random jumps at very severe angles. Second would be completely random anti-jumps that don't fit the music at all. I can do both of those, of course, but that's mainly due to testplaying so many of those while modding.nanda2009 wrote:
so.. err... what's the common bad flow in most of beatmaps you saw?
pattern with extreme angle?
Regardless, I'd argue that the #1 completely-killing-your-map-before-you-even-start-mapping method is using a SV and DS combo that has your 1/1s overlap in an Easy diff on most BPMs. Believe it or not, newbies often don't like that because it makes them think, "OMG I NEED TO CLICK THESE NOTES FAST" when that is not the case. It also makes it much harder for them to read the approach circles because they're cramped together. 'Course, very high BPMs - like 210+ - are a different story, but very few maps have that high of a BPM.
How about melodic flow? That is to say, patterns which rise and fall with melodic hooks and the music in general? It's hard to create interesting patterns while doing this constantly, but to me, it feels horrible when a pattern goes entirely in the opposite direction of a key motif.
A similar instance would be using this sense of direction to alternate between the lead and something in the accompaniment. For example, this pattern in OK Go - Here It Goes Again, in which the lead is followed and then there's a huge drop for the floor tom.
I'm also a big fan of back and forth flow, which can be a direct overlap over a previous object:
Or patterns which move in opposite directions:
No wonder this map is so awesome.
A similar instance would be using this sense of direction to alternate between the lead and something in the accompaniment. For example, this pattern in OK Go - Here It Goes Again, in which the lead is followed and then there's a huge drop for the floor tom.
I'm also a big fan of back and forth flow, which can be a direct overlap over a previous object:
Or patterns which move in opposite directions:
No wonder this map is so awesome.
For me, the flow means when an object can connect to a previous or the next object and feels intuitive, regardless of the spacing used. Some people interrupt this with (unfitting) jumps or antijumps or when a jump/antijump can fit, they use distance snap. And yeah, /late and most of the stuff I agree with is in the first post anyway, just with less labels.
That's just how I see it. :p
That's just how I see it. :p
This is complicated, but I'll try to follow it. 
Whipping this thread into a coma with another suggestion, which I don't think has been suggested yet.
Self-intersecting flow
Speaks for itself. Patterns which either cross straight through themselves or complete rows/patterns can be very nice. Incidentally, that previous pattern in the screenshot can also be very nice--as in, something which moves out and around in a kind of angular way. The Ouendan 2 map, 'Bang! Bang!', has a lot of that stuff.
Furthermore, patterns such as this are also excellent, of course.
Also, I really enjoy using clever copypaste and rotation to create a more drawn-out rotating flow. When it's used with interesting patterns, this can be very effective, especially if it's done a way which cycles between a smooth curve and sharp directional changes.
Self-intersecting flow
Speaks for itself. Patterns which either cross straight through themselves or complete rows/patterns can be very nice. Incidentally, that previous pattern in the screenshot can also be very nice--as in, something which moves out and around in a kind of angular way. The Ouendan 2 map, 'Bang! Bang!', has a lot of that stuff.
Furthermore, patterns such as this are also excellent, of course.
Also, I really enjoy using clever copypaste and rotation to create a more drawn-out rotating flow. When it's used with interesting patterns, this can be very effective, especially if it's done a way which cycles between a smooth curve and sharp directional changes.
I've just discovered a great application of this "slider leniency" for structure mapping. Because structure gets a bad rap for having "poor" flow--a sentiment which I find to be rather untrue when the flow's manipulated in ways which fit the music--I'm going to talk about slider patterns. In particular, moving between two sliders with spaced 1/4. Over time, my hope is to dispel some common misconceptions about the relevance of "iNiS style" to a game which is primarily mouse-based.
First, let's look at an example of an object following a slider directly.
I've seen some complaints about this sort of thing being bad, simply because the circle which follows the slider doesn't overlap or isn't stacked. Personally, I hate sliderend stacking, so I find the latter to be thoroughly out of the question. I also dislike objects overlapping, unless they're part of a tidy stream, so the former isn't a viable option for me. With regards to the gigantic followcircle, let's see how easy it is to get away with larger spacing.
You can see that, despite the larger spacing, the size of the followcircle allows the player to land directly onto the next object, before the slider's even finished. As an added bonus, I've illustrated how this pattern--something that looks incredibly angular--can easily play as one smooth curve. Don't be afraid to use sharper angles! Even if you're not aiming for sharp changes in direction, they can play extremely smoothly.
Note that this sort of thing can apply very well to even tighter angles. The following pattern might be dispelled as being stuck awkwardly between "flow and anti-flow," but look at the smoothness of the path which can be followed:
See? It's possible to have structure and "good flow." It just takes a modicum of consideration to how it will work in practice, as well as some attention during playtests. Of course, this sort of logic can apply to circle patterns on their own, especially when they're large like they are in the examples.
In closing, here are some even more angular patterns.
I hope that this has enlightened some of you about structure mapping. Instead of flat-out dispelling the notion of mapping like this, try suggesting ways of improving the flow when smoother flow is required.
First, let's look at an example of an object following a slider directly.
I've seen some complaints about this sort of thing being bad, simply because the circle which follows the slider doesn't overlap or isn't stacked. Personally, I hate sliderend stacking, so I find the latter to be thoroughly out of the question. I also dislike objects overlapping, unless they're part of a tidy stream, so the former isn't a viable option for me. With regards to the gigantic followcircle, let's see how easy it is to get away with larger spacing.
You can see that, despite the larger spacing, the size of the followcircle allows the player to land directly onto the next object, before the slider's even finished. As an added bonus, I've illustrated how this pattern--something that looks incredibly angular--can easily play as one smooth curve. Don't be afraid to use sharper angles! Even if you're not aiming for sharp changes in direction, they can play extremely smoothly.
Note that this sort of thing can apply very well to even tighter angles. The following pattern might be dispelled as being stuck awkwardly between "flow and anti-flow," but look at the smoothness of the path which can be followed:
See? It's possible to have structure and "good flow." It just takes a modicum of consideration to how it will work in practice, as well as some attention during playtests. Of course, this sort of logic can apply to circle patterns on their own, especially when they're large like they are in the examples.
In closing, here are some even more angular patterns.
Moving through right-angles and acute angles.
Note that the one break in flow follows a very obvious stop in the music. It's effectively two detached instances of smoother flow.
Note that the one break in flow follows a very obvious stop in the music. It's effectively two detached instances of smoother flow.
Using slider blankets to create effective zig-zags.
While these sliders are pointing in opposite directions and seem like one would have to jerk up awkwardly, they'd only have to move in a swooping zig-zag. Hardly a scary thing to play. Of course, mixing up the flow with the illustrated oval flow adds plenty of interest as well.
While these sliders are pointing in opposite directions and seem like one would have to jerk up awkwardly, they'd only have to move in a swooping zig-zag. Hardly a scary thing to play. Of course, mixing up the flow with the illustrated oval flow adds plenty of interest as well.
I hope that this has enlightened some of you about structure mapping. Instead of flat-out dispelling the notion of mapping like this, try suggesting ways of improving the flow when smoother flow is required.
Good tips & Tricks for my next maps & mods (:
Now I NEED apply this "know-how" on Sade - Smooth Operator, which I'm currently remapping, and start building expertise...
Now I NEED apply this "know-how" on Sade - Smooth Operator, which I'm currently remapping, and start building expertise...
An error caused a triple post. I apologize 
An error caused me to triple post. Sorry.
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Added Shiro's tumblr post concerning flow and patterns.
Necro lol but I wanted to ask: sharp angles like back and forth circle jumps are bad flow? They are among the easiest jumps to play o.o
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