kowai
Applications for joining the Beatmap Nominators will mostly stay the same but instead of holding them every three months, they will be open at any point in time.
The applications will still be composed of two parts, a ranking criteria proficiency test and a manual evaluation by members of the “Management Team”.
If you are removed from the Beatmap Nominators, you will be put on a cooldown of three months before you can re-apply. If you leave the Beatmap Nominators on your own merit though, you will be allowed to re-join within the next two weeks after your removal.
Give the Disqualify button to the Beatmap Nominators
The Beatmap Nominators will take on the current QAT’s job of acting on reports in the Report a Qualified beatmap here! thread.
Vetoes will be decided by the Beatmap Nominators
Instead of a small group deciding about the fate of a map, the “Management Team” will initiate a majority vote among all BNs (except for the one who placed the veto) of the respective mode.
The “Quality Assurance Helpers” sub-group inside the BNs will continue checking every qualified map for unrankables and objective issues until an automated method replaces them. Moreover, the QAH will be renamed to avoid confusion with the former QAT.
The Beatmap Nominator rules will be updated so that a map may only be disqualified if unrankable or objective issues are present, the mapper requests it, or in the event of a veto.
Beatmap Nominator Applications will always be open
Note that implementation of this system might take some time to prepare
Applications for joining the Beatmap Nominators will mostly stay the same but instead of holding them every three months, they will be open at any point in time.
"If you leave the Beatmap Nominators on your own merit though, you will be allowed to re-join within the next two weeks after your removal."
dudehacker wrote:
why is BN score based on issues rather than # of maps ranked?
Proposal wrote:
The Beatmap Nominator rules will be updated so that a map may only be disqualified if unrankable or objective issues are present, the mapper requests it, or in the event of a veto.
Proposal wrote:
A new score system for Beatmap Nominators will be introduced
However, instead of focusing on subjective issues, this system will only account for unrankable and objective issues.
Monstrata wrote:
It isn't feasible to hold a vote across the entire BNG. Something like selecting x amount of readily available BN's would be better. I think 7 is the most feasible. Selection should be random, of course, and participation in vetoes should become a mandatory responsibility of BN's. Currently, it seems as if people who don't want to participate in votes can just not. There is no penalty for not participating, but as a result the vote may be skewed. Therefore, in order to ensure participation, I feel BN's who are chosen to participate in any veto mediation vote must also provide a short opinion on their choice (yes or no). I think it only has to be 2-3 sentences, nothing major, but this is to at least acknowledge that the BN has participated in the veto and isn't just going to blindly vote yes/no to everything and be non-toxic. (Voting no to a veto mediation is NOT being toxic, let's not set any bad precedents).
Monstrata wrote:
How to get into Management Team?
I'm sure a few people (hi Ascendance) will be interested primarily in this. Is there a process to get into Management Team? And what will happen to other aspects of the mapping/modding community? I'm talking about pushing forward new amendments and changes to the Ranking Criteria mainly. (Which is another subset issue). How will people be chosen for this specialized team?
Monstrata wrote:
Also if someone is rejected, what is the cooldown before they can reapply again?
Monstrata wrote:
Another note: I feel severity of a kick should be considered too. For example, BN's kicked for missing too many unrankable elements, or are inactive etc... should not be subject to a 3 month cooldown imo. I feel that for unrankable elements, this suggests the BN needs more training, or isn't thorough enough, but 1-2 months should be enough. For inactivity, well, can't a BN just resign if they know they will get kicked for inactivity? Then they would be able to reapply 2 weeks later. On the other end, I think behavior-related kicks could be 3 months. I think having a flat # of months is not necessary, and you guys could change the cooldown to suit the specific case of the BN being removed. Basically, make cooldowns more case-by-case and not necessarily do 3 months for everyone.
pimp wrote:
i don't like the idea of giving the DQ button to all nominators
FrenZ396 wrote:
You guys should add a cooldown between how long people can apply for BN - perhaps two weeks or something. People could just spam requests every other day under this proposal since it's not listed...
edit: Hi Feerum! I didn't reload my page until after I posted this and you mentioned this already.
Mao wrote:
We also still need to figure out how to handle probation exactly.
Draft wrote:
Applications for joining the Beatmap Nominators will mostly stay the same but instead of holding them every three months, they will be open at any point in time.
The applications will still be composed of two parts, a ranking criteria proficiency test and a manual evaluation by members of the “Management Team”.
UndeadCapulet wrote:
kowai
While I totally agree with changing the name (since lets be real, qat hasn't assured quality in forever), I don't think disbanding it entirely is necessary though.Proposal wrote:
Disband the Quality Assurance Team
A little concerned with this part, not about the potential of abuse or anything but more about the fact that "a map cannot be disqualified for anything but unrankable or objective issues". Might as well say only unrankables since that's the only truly objective issue, nearly everything else is mostly subjective. This also allowes the mapper to simply disregard any dq mods whatsoever without having to even try to explain why they don't want to change things, why explain when you can just say no.Proposal wrote:
Give the Disqualify button to the Beatmap Nominators
Uhhh can we not? From what I've heard from a few qats it's already annoying as fuck to deal with, but the thing is if you become qat you kinda sign up for this stuff, forcing this on BNs who really don't give a shit about vetoed map #27 is not the best idea, most of them will probably just pass the map without looking at it because they don't feel evaluating a veto on a map they couldn't care less about.Proposal wrote:
Vetoes will be decided by the Beatmap Nominators
I mean sure but like do we really need this? Not entirely sure if most of the gmt even cares about anything mapping related, I highly doubt most of them will want to moderate map threads, hell even the current qat barely does that (which is why this proposal is a thing btw xD). I'm fairly confident things wouldn't turn out nearly as bad every time if there was some actual moderation for controversial map threads (guren, shiten, etc.) instead of just saying "pls behave" after it's already way too late.Proposal wrote:
Content related moderation will be handled by the Global Moderation Team
I think nao already mentioned something about that, but what this is gonna do is promote nominating the most boring maps you could possibly find. Why nominate a map with 200 redlines / a set with 15 diffs with a lot of potential unrankables / similar if you can just nominate 5 diff anime TV sizes all day long? The risk of fucking up isn't worth it for most people already, and changing things will not help with it. On top of that what if people just nominate subjectively terrible maps all the time, but they don't have any unrankables, would that still make them a good BN? I believe being BN is about more than just checking a set for unrankables (even though that's basically what the job description is but you get the point).Proposal wrote:
A new score system for Beatmap Nominators will be introduced
When will applicants be evaluated though? As soon as they send their application or will there be a set date each month? Will the management team really be able to handle this and not have delayed results? I definitely support this particular point though.Proposal wrote:
Beatmap Nominator Applications will always be open
Spkz wrote:
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So, if the tests will stay, how are they going to look like? Or rather, how frequently are you going update them? Because there were cases where people got accepted with others' help (revealing the whole test and the answers and similar) with the test. The only solutions which come to mind is whether you come up with a dynamic system or you update the tests pretty much daily / or you make seperate tests for each individual applicants (or even more than one, given the chance they might fail). The first option would be far more ideal obviously but I can hardly imagine a possible way to do it, the second option is well....time consuming and redundant so it is probably not the way it should go as far as I can tell.
Now, obviously you mention that the "implementation of this system might take some time to prepare" but it is probably worth the time to play with the thoughts before you actually start making this system becoming real.
Also, please keep in mind that I'm fairly outdated with how BNs get promoted nowadays (thus I don't really know how a "proficiency test" really looks like today if those have been changed) so please ignore me if my question didn't make any sense in the current context.
I feel like if BN's don't want to be involved in vetoes, they shouldn't have to. But then they hold a "non-opinion". Let the people who care about vetoes do the vetoing, and let the other BN"s who also care about vetoes handle the veto mediation.Mordred wrote:
Uhhh can we not? From what I've heard from a few qats it's already annoying as fuck to deal with, but the thing is if you become qat you kinda sign up for this stuff, forcing this on BNs who really don't give a shit about vetoed map #27 is not the best idea, most of them will probably just pass the map without looking at it because they don't feel evaluating a veto on a map they couldn't care less about.Proposal wrote:
Vetoes will be decided by the Beatmap Nominators
On top of that, having every single BN vote on every single veto is obviously not going to work and I believe I've seen Mao and others already suggest to just randomly pick a select number of BNs for this. While this is a lot better than having everyone vote it still kinda sucks, what if you only pick BNs that hate / love that particular map (guren lol)? In the end I believe the current system we have for this is the best, despite being kinda not so good.
Monstrata wrote:
I don't really get why some of you guys are so concerned about BN's being able to disqualify. You've been able to qualify maps forever. How hard is it to just not hit disqualify unless you see objectively unrankable issues? Involving Management Team for every single DQ requires additional communication that imo is not necessary when you see an obviously offscreen slider, etc... (And these are really the only times you'd DQ without mapper's consent anyways).
The only time a BN can DQ without mapper's consent and without it being unrankable issues, is if the BN is placing a veto. And imo, I feel it should be mandatory for BN's who want to DQ a map for subjective issues to first give notice (24 hours) for mapper to respond. Therefore, I think it is appropriate to say maps can only be DQ'ed by a single BN if the BN plans to veto the map, and the mapper either hasn't responded in 24 hours, or has not given the BN an adequate response in 24 hours. For cases outside of this (past the 5th/6th day), I think the support of 2 BN's is necessary in order to DQ a map on like the 6th or 7th day for subjective issues. (This would basically be two BN's completely negating the nominations of the previous two).