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It’s been a year since the touchscreen nerf...

posted
Total Posts
11
Ascendrio
14 posts
Joined December 2014
Topic Starter
Ascendrio
The pp nerf made the play's pp 1/2 of the original amount if it’s just because it's touchscreen? I mean, couldn't it be just 2/3 instead of 1/2? Thats just awful..now nobody is playing touchscreen except itsamemarioo and freedomdiver. I thought that this nerf wouldn't kill the community...but it's been a year since the touchscreen pp nerf and nobody new seems to want to play touchscreen anymore. Who wants to play touchscreen if the nerf for it is that bad?

(Referring to this play, https://youtu.be/2Vk_7d9YHU4)

Also, even with the pp nerf, the touchscreen community is still getting hate. You don’t have to like the plays made by touchscreen, but please try touchscreen for once and you’ll know how hard it is to use touchscreen, especially streams.
Full Tablet
2,542 posts
Joined September 2011
Full Tablet
Touchscreen play is quite different from other ways of playing, like Portal Chess compared to classic Chess. Having separate leaderboards (and pp system) for touchscreen would be a better solution than trying to balance them and have them mixed.
Ascendrio
14 posts
Joined December 2014
Topic Starter
Ascendrio

Full Tablet wrote:

Touchscreen play is quite different from other ways of playing, like Portal Chess compared to classic Chess. Having separate leaderboards (and pp system) for touchscreen would be a better solution than trying to balance them and have them mixed.


It is different than the other playstyles, but it has one big weakness, which is streams. Jumps may be easy with touchscreen, but it isn’t as easy as you think. It’s kinda sad that people needs to try touchscreen itself to really feel how hard it is...

The one issue I have about touchscreen having a seperate leaderboard, is that the leaderboard would just be the same people. The touchscreen community is so small that it would look like a private osu server, even smaller. They won’t be interested in competing with a small community if it’s filled with the same top TD players. On the other hand, non TD players will be uninterested in trying touchscreen because of the touchscreen community’s reputation (and how small it is)and how their plays aren’t as good as the top player’s plays.

If the seperate leaderboard and pp system is implemented for touchscreen, then I’m sure that the touchscreen community would be as dead as now. It wouldn’t really fix the issue of how the osu! community killed a playstyle and treating it like it’s for cheaters. It wouldn’t stop making TD players from retiring the game (except freedomdiver and itsamemarioo, but they seem to be a bit more inactive).
Last edited by Ascendrio , edited 2 times in total.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
1/2 pp was a bandaid fix to the outcry of a touchscreen play breaking the pp record with 900+pp. Dividing pp by anything else would now make it a bandaid fix to the bandaid fix. Propose actual methods to calculate touchscreen difficulty to solve this problem.
beli
11 posts
Joined August 2017
beli
i wonder if the developers are even thinking in re-balance touchscreen again, the actual status of pp gain by touchscreen is a joke, i would accept going from 745pp to 600 or 550 but 387pp? that's an insult.
i hope the developers r at least talking about this.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
Spoiler alert: they are not

I suggest you follow what is currently being focused on in osu-dev: https://discord.gg/ppy
Rijrya
17 posts
Joined November 2017
Rijrya
the touchscreen community is pretty small now but it's still alive and has new players coming into it constantly, you just don't hear about it ever because none of them can become well known after the nerf

as an example, yeahbennou started playing after the nerf and has set some pretty nutty scores like the third ever post nerf 400pp ts play, a 375pp play on ILY top diff hddt (a 10 star!!) and the first dt fc on make a move top diff. you've probably never heard of him simply because he's a post nerf ts player; without the ts nerf he'd be around rank 120 instead of rank 6.7k.

the play you referred to wasn't done for the pp it would give, there's much better ways of farming pp than playing a map 2319 times, even for touchscreen. instead, it likely was done because he wanted to challenge himself with it. what you're saying is similar to if you started questioning why players like Azer enjoy playing tech maps, when they give so little pp.
beli
11 posts
Joined August 2017
beli

Rijrya wrote:

the touchscreen community is pretty small now but it's still alive and has new players coming into it constantly, you just don't hear about it ever because none of them can become well known after the nerf

as an example, yeahbennou started playing after the nerf and has set some pretty nutty scores like the third ever post nerf 400pp ts play, a 375pp play on ILY top diff hddt (a 10 star!!) and the first dt fc on make a move top diff. you've probably never heard of him simply because he's a post nerf ts player; without the ts nerf he'd be around rank 120 instead of rank 6.7k.

the play you referred to wasn't done for the pp it would give, there's much better ways of farming pp than playing a map 2319 times, even for touchscreen. instead, it likely was done because he wanted to challenge himself with it. what you're saying is similar to if you started questioning why players like Azer enjoy playing tech maps, when they give so little pp.
try to set a 600 pp play with touchscreen and then come back, it is nearly impossible after the nerf, and i'm not even talking about 700 or 800.
You know something is wrong when the top touchscreen players have 500pp top plays, This needs to be addressed, sooner or later.
I'm not saying that there should be no nerf at all, but not the excessive nerf that we have right now
Rijrya
17 posts
Joined November 2017
Rijrya

beli wrote:

Rijrya wrote:

the touchscreen community is pretty small now but it's still alive and has new players coming into it constantly, you just don't hear about it ever because none of them can become well known after the nerf

as an example, yeahbennou started playing after the nerf and has set some pretty nutty scores like the third ever post nerf 400pp ts play, a 375pp play on ILY top diff hddt (a 10 star!!) and the first dt fc on make a move top diff. you've probably never heard of him simply because he's a post nerf ts player; without the ts nerf he'd be around rank 120 instead of rank 6.7k.

the play you referred to wasn't done for the pp it would give, there's much better ways of farming pp than playing a map 2319 times, even for touchscreen. instead, it likely was done because he wanted to challenge himself with it. what you're saying is similar to if you started questioning why players like Azer enjoy playing tech maps, when they give so little pp.


try to set a 600 pp play with touchscreen and then come back, it is nearly impossible after the nerf, and i'm not even talking about 700 or 800.
You know something is wrong when the top touchscreen players have 500pp top plays, This needs to be addressed, sooner or later.
I'm not saying that there should be no nerf at all, but not the excessive nerf that we have right now


there are touchscreen reworks coming out along with the length bonus rebalances angles reworks etc from xexxar and mbmasher
these reworks mainly focus on buffing higher acc ts pp plays, and reworking how aim pp is calculated.
however, since the nature of the touchscreen playstyle is so different from the normal playstyles, it's impossible to reach a perfect state of fair pp given for each play. it's a lot harder to determine whether a play on touchscreen was hard and should award more pp, as most of the plays set by touchscreen players are just retry until they hit it by chance.
beli
11 posts
Joined August 2017
beli

Rijrya wrote:

beli wrote:

Rijrya wrote:

the touchscreen community is pretty small now but it's still alive and has new players coming into it constantly, you just don't hear about it ever because none of them can become well known after the nerf

as an example, yeahbennou started playing after the nerf and has set some pretty nutty scores like the third ever post nerf 400pp ts play, a 375pp play on ILY top diff hddt (a 10 star!!) and the first dt fc on make a move top diff. you've probably never heard of him simply because he's a post nerf ts player; without the ts nerf he'd be around rank 120 instead of rank 6.7k.

the play you referred to wasn't done for the pp it would give, there's much better ways of farming pp than playing a map 2319 times, even for touchscreen. instead, it likely was done because he wanted to challenge himself with it. what you're saying is similar to if you started questioning why players like Azer enjoy playing tech maps, when they give so little pp.
try to set a 600 pp play with touchscreen and then come back, it is nearly impossible after the nerf, and i'm not even talking about 700 or 800.
You know something is wrong when the top touchscreen players have 500pp top plays, This needs to be addressed, sooner or later.
I'm not saying that there should be no nerf at all, but not the excessive nerf that we have right now
there are touchscreen reworks coming out along with the length bonus rebalances angles reworks etc from xexxar and mbmasher
these reworks mainly focus on buffing higher acc ts pp plays, and reworking how aim pp is calculated.
however, since the nature of the touchscreen playstyle is so different from the normal playstyles, it's impossible to reach a perfect state of fair pp given for each play. it's a lot harder to determine whether a play on touchscreen was hard and should award more pp, as most of the plays set by touchscreen players are just retry until they hit it by chance.
glad to hear this :D
Nao Tomori
Nomination Assessment Team
3,089 posts
Joined December 2014
Nao Tomori
Touchscreen is fundamentally incompatible with m/kb pp system because what is difficult or not is entirely different between the two. Like full screen jumps are the easiest things and even basic 5-note bursts are near impossible. There is no way to keep both types of scores on the same system, separate leaderboards and no pp from touchscreen is a better option.
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