[Rule Change - osu!catch] Basic Dashes from hypers (Platter)

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Topic Starter
MBomb

wonjae wrote:

ehhhhh im still under the impression that unless the map is super low bpm, 1/1 antiflow dashes shouldnt be allowed after a hyper period. Those dashes can be very large at times and can be super straining to the player
That's why I mentioned how, similar to cases in other difficulties, of course whether it is fitting for the difficulty with how it is done would be to BN discretion, and I feel a BN should safely be able to judge whether a dash is too bigly large for this difficulty quite confidently.
chickenbible

MBomb wrote:

wonjae wrote:

ehhhhh im still under the impression that unless the map is super low bpm, 1/1 antiflow dashes shouldnt be allowed after a hyper period. Those dashes can be very large at times and can be super straining to the player
That's why I mentioned how, similar to cases in other difficulties, of course whether it is fitting for the difficulty with how it is done would be to BN discretion, and I feel a BN should safely be able to judge whether a dash is too bigly large for this difficulty quite confidently.
To fix this could add a similar clause to "If used, the spacing must not exceed a distance snap of 1.2x the trigger distance and the movement after the hyperdash must be walkable.", but have it apply to the dash spacing instead of hdash spacing
Topic Starter
MBomb

chickenbible wrote:

To fix this could add a similar clause to "If used, the spacing must not exceed a distance snap of 1.2x the trigger distance and the movement after the hyperdash must be walkable.", but have it apply to the dash spacing instead of hdash spacing
Whilst this is a possible solution to avoid relying on BN discretion, I feel it's unnecessary to do, and also the trigger distance for a dash is highly more subjective and debated than trigger distance for a HDash, and can vary in definition from whether it looks like a dash, feels like a dash, or is literally not possible without dashing, so I feel this would cause a little unnecessary confusion.
Sanyi
I am not to sure if you're suggested "fix" in the opening post isn't just a clumsy workaround instead of a real fix. With that said, I cannot really say more about that specific case because I don't know the map where it occured xD. Maybe linking the map would be a nice addition to have some sort of context.

About the rule change itself: Seems ok for me, since both (hyperdash and dash afterwards) are basic ones. It seems reasonable enough to give Platter players that sort of "challenge" every now and then.
ZiRoX
While I can agree with the idea behind the proposal, the concept of "higher-snapped movements" is unclear because in Platters you have both dashes and hyperdashes, each with their own threshold separating basic ones from higher-snapped ones.

Obviously, the proposal isn't referring to HDashes (since you can't trigger hyperwalks with the restrictions that exist in a Platter - anyway, this isn't something you should expect newer mappers to know and therefore is an unsuitable assumption for the RC), but referring to "gaps that would correspond to a higher-snapped dash must be walkable" (however, this is a bit wordy).

Since what you want to do is allow either walkable distances or basic dashes, I think it would be clearer if you're explicit about that. So I'd reword like:

Ranking Criteria wrote:

Basic hyperdashes may be used in conjunction with antiflow patterns. If used, the spacing must not exceed a distance snap of 1.2x the trigger distance and the movement after the hyperdash must either be walkable or a basic dash.
Sanyi
Seems better than the first version to me!
Ascendance
If you want to use something like that, you might wanna commit to the rule side of things by stating what's disallowed rather than what's allowed, it would be less wordy. For example, instead of "the movement after the hyperdash must either be walkable or a basic dash", you could write "and cannot be a higher snapped dash" or something.

That being said, when I wrote this rule originally a while ago when I pushed it, I did not have adding another dash in mind. If this goes through, I would honestly consider reducing 1.2x -> 1.1x to at least give some additional leniency in the event that a dash is used following an antiflow pattern. While players have advanced, I do believe that there should still be some limitations to how far we can go on a platter, so while we've increased the amount of movements allowed on a difficulty like this, we could compensate by lowering the maximum allowed distance.
ZiRoX

Ascendance wrote:

If you want to use something like that, you might wanna commit to the rule side of things by stating what's disallowed rather than what's allowed, it would be less wordy. For example, instead of "the movement after the hyperdash must either be walkable or a basic dash", you could write "and cannot be a higher snapped dash" or something.

That being said, when I wrote this rule originally a while ago when I pushed it, I did not have adding another dash in mind. If this goes through, I would honestly consider reducing 1.2x -> 1.1x to at least give some additional leniency in the event that a dash is used following an antiflow pattern. While players have advanced, I do believe that there should still be some limitations to how far we can go on a platter, so while we've increased the amount of movements allowed on a difficulty like this, we could compensate by lowering the maximum allowed distance.
The thing with reducing from 1.2x to 1.1x is that the requirement for basic and higher-snapped hyperdashes would be equal. An alternative would be to make the spacing requirement 1.1x if the HDash is followed by a dash and 1.2x if it's followed by a walk, but maybe that's too wordy or complicated.
ZiRoX
(Double post) Hi!

In an attempt to move forward with the discussion about this rule change, I talked over this with Ascendance, deciding to incorporate his suggestion in the following way:

Ranking Criteria wrote:

Basic hyperdashes may be used in conjunction with antiflow patterns. If used, the spacing must not exceed a distance snap of 1.2x the trigger distance if followed by a walkable movement, or 1.1x the trigger distance if followed by a basic dash.
If anyone has anything to add to or amend about this wording, please do so by 23:59 UTC+0, April 21, 2019. We will extend the time necessary if important discussion is ongoing.
Topic Starter
MBomb
Would just like to comment that after discussion yesterday, there was a bit of confusion on "1.2x" because people would see it as distance snap on the movement afterwards rather than the trigger distance, and we discussed that it'd be less confusing for it to say "1.2 times". It may also be best to do that with the 1.1x, changing it to 1.1 times.
pishifat
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