[Proposal] General guideline to strongly recommend crediting the creator of the map's background

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pimp
^
Topic Starter
Hobbes2

Nao Tomori wrote:

will maps be dq'd for incorrect or missing bg source?
why would they need to be? you don't need to dq a map to change the map's description

edit - actually this is a good question, there's no real precedent for having something unrankable that doesn't need the person to actually upload changes to the map to fix. I would lean towards no DQ needed here and just have the person edit the description but this would probably require some discussing
Yahuri
Sounds like a good idea. However, I can see a couple issues with your suggestion-
1. No-link: The artist may sign their name in a different way than their @s. This makes it harder to track them down without any links. To fix NSFW cases, I suggest putting an NSFW warning next to the credit, rather than eliminating links entirely.
2. Anime screenshots and promo: Some map backgrounds come directly from anime. Who would you credit? There are multiple people drawing those and you'd have to find out which one(s) drew it (that is, to credit properly according to these guidelines).
3. "unless sourcing the creator is exceedingly difficult": In that case, maybe it's better to not use the background at all. It's disrespectful to the artist to be using their artwork and yet not even knowing who they are.
Mirash
sounds rather dumb adding this into rc which'll only cause it getting unnecessary big and unapproachable. should be more of a common sense thing to do and not a forced rule imo.
Topic Starter
Hobbes2
1. No-link: The artist may sign their name in a different way than their @s. This makes it harder to track them down without any links. To fix NSFW cases, I suggest putting an NSFW warning next to the credit, rather than eliminating links entirely.
fair point but sometimes the art source is like a literal porn website which I don't think we want being linked from osu in any context whatsoever. In most cases linking the source would be the best option.

2. Anime screenshots and promo: Some map backgrounds come directly from anime. Who would you credit? There are multiple people drawing those and you'd have to find out which one(s) drew it (that is, to credit properly according to these guidelines).
Not actually sure about this case, I'll think about it.

3. "unless sourcing the creator is exceedingly difficult": In that case, maybe it's better to not use the background at all. It's disrespectful to the artist to be using their artwork and yet not even knowing who they are.
I actually agree but I went with the more conservative approach based on how I thought people would react. If this suggestion is popular I would gladly amend it into the guideline.

@Mirash in a perfect world yes, but if we lived in one people would be doing it already. only way to make it happen is have it written down.
pimp
thought it was for tags lol
no need to DQ if it's just for description since it can be changed by the mapper or staff without affecting the nominations.

3. "unless sourcing the creator is exceedingly difficult": In that case, maybe it's better to not use the background at all. It's disrespectful to the artist to be using their artwork and yet not even knowing who they are.
personally i don't like the idea of not being allowed to use a background just because i don't know the creator.
Ascendance
Not hard to get your map ranked and then delete from your description though. Not that anyone would do that but it’s hard to enforce at that point
VINXIS
Id honestly be up for another osu version which would let u put in bg source(s) links and then on the website there would be a button that would let people click to redirect to the bg source,,,,,, if that somehow actually happens tho, this should then become a ranking requirement imo


anyway For maps which use sources that do not have links like a frame from an episode or such, should it just be something like "from Show Name - Episode xx" then? Probably would be difficult to source stuff like that
Topic Starter
Hobbes2
anyway For maps which use sources that do not have links like a frame from an episode or such, should it just be something like "from Show Name - Episode xx" then? Probably would be difficult to source stuff like that
yeah im thinking of what to do for cases where there's no source to link back to because its from a video, in that case I would say saying it's from xx anime or whatever is fine since you would be crediting the BG's source. these edge cases could use some refinement as they come in for sure.

Not hard to get your map ranked and then delete from your description though. Not that anyone would do that but it’s hard to enforce at that point
i guess yeah that's the risk of having something in the RC that's editable post rank. I don't think anyone would really go as far as to do this but you never know. Not sure what can be done about that.
4n3c
tbf there's no harm in using this as a guideline even if someone does edit the beatmap listing. im not entirely sure stuff like this should be a part of the rc though

maybe adding this to the code of conduct as a guideline would be better?
Bearizm
Map BG, artist(s) credits.
MBomb

Hobbes2 wrote:

anyway For maps which use sources that do not have links like a frame from an episode or such, should it just be something like "from Show Name - Episode xx" then? Probably would be difficult to source stuff like that
yeah im thinking of what to do for cases where there's no source to link back to because its from a video, in that case I would say saying it's from xx anime or whatever is fine since you would be crediting the BG's source. these edge cases could use some refinement as they come in for sure.

Not hard to get your map ranked and then delete from your description though. Not that anyone would do that but it’s hard to enforce at that point
i guess yeah that's the risk of having something in the RC that's editable post rank. I don't think anyone would really go as far as to do this but you never know. Not sure what can be done about that.
Easy thing to do if this does happen is for a QAT or staff member to edit the description and add the bg source in, and then lock thread so it can't be edited, however this would obviously not really be realistically possible to keep track of for all maps, unless osu!staff have a record of all edits that go on in a specific forum (in this case, the ranked/approved beatmap forum).
Kibbleru
well, if i can get the source then i would 100% list it, but sometimes i can't really be bothered to find the source, because pixiv doesn't exactly pop up in google "search image", it's kind of difficult to actually find it.
Monstrata
Yea, same sentiment as Kibb.

What do you consider "exceedingly difficult" to source?

Also I'm concerned that this is an unfair task to expect BN's/QAT's to do. This type of quality control in order to "enforce" this guideline (as guidelines also have to be followed now that they are practically rules) will involve asking BN's and QAT's to go onto potentially sketchy sites, even potentially nsfw stuff since some of the bgs mappers use are from eroge or worse stuff etc... Some sites might not even be accessible for BN's or QAT's depending on region, and some sites also require membership before being able to browse the site's metadata to confirm if the person hosting the image is simply reposting it, or is the actual artist themselves. Only thing worse than not crediting the artist, is crediting someone who simply uploaded the image as the artist.
tatatat
I have no idea who makes the backgrounds I use most of the time, and sometimes there is no clear source available. Like if its a cropped image and a reverse image search with google or tineye doesn't work.

Also what if I edit the background? Am I considered a creator too?

What about backgrounds that were originally posted to anonymous message boards like 4chan?

What about backgrounds created through scripts/are randomly generated? Like mandelbrot sets.

Also what if its a giant collaborative work with 20+ artists involved? Do I have to list every single one of them? That'd be a huge pain.

These are some of the questions I have.
pishifat
sourcing bg is a nice thing to do, but not sure it's necessary for the ranking criteria. nothing about a map is better/worse/more appropriate with artist credit


Kibbleru wrote:

well, if i can get the source then i would 100% list it, but sometimes i can't really be bothered to find the source, because pixiv doesn't exactly pop up in google "search image", it's kind of difficult to actually find it.
i doubt it would ever be as bad as metadata searches, but i also agree that requiring mappers to spend time searching for something that isn't necessary for a rankablequalitymap isn't best fit for the rc
Topic Starter
Hobbes2
yeah fair, it'd be nice if it was written down somewhere that crediting artist is a cool thing to do but ranking criteria doesn't seem to be the place for it is what i'm seeing here.

maybe adding this to the code of conduct as a guideline would be better?
thoughts on this? I think it's actually a solid idea
pishifat
i dont think it fits on the coc either since thats about conduct between osu users, unrelated to artists

if you find somewhere more relevant to put it though, i suggest making a more focused thread or directly pring to that relevant place on the wiki
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