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posted

Sieg wrote:

Monstrata wrote:

Personally, I will cease all mapping commissions officially. But my concerns are now less about commissions and more about simply uploading maps in general. I'm not trying to shade the osu!team, I really think these are legitimate issues we need to consider now more than ever. I've even heard Larto quit osu because he feared legal ramifications due to mapping popular songs.
Simple. You're infringing copyright thus violating the ToS, but it's not osu! stuff fault or obligation to check every your submission because they believe in your fair use of the service. In general osu! is protected by DMCA, you're kindly protected by osu! stuff by removing your uploads that was claimed with DMCA. In any case of huge leak in this chain you will be taking all legal implications, but keep in mind that probability meteorite will fall on your house is higher.

On the topic- I hope this will end with nicely asking people to remove any notes about commissions on their socials rather than checking legal permissions.
Yes, but according to the DMCA limitations:

17 U.S. Code § 512 - Limitations on liability relating to material online wrote:

(c) Information Residing on Systems or Networks At Direction of Users.—
(1)In general.—A service provider shall not be liable for monetary relief, or, except as provided in subsection (j), for injunctive or other equitable relief, for infringement of copyright by reason of the storage at the direction of a user of material that resides on a system or network controlled or operated by or for the service provider, if the service provider—
(A)
(i) does not have actual knowledge that the material or an activity using the material on the system or network is infringing;
(ii) in the absence of such actual knowledge, is not aware of facts or circumstances from which infringing activity is apparent; or
(iii) upon obtaining such knowledge or awareness, acts expeditiously to remove, or disable access to, the material;
(B) does not receive a financial benefit directly attributable to the infringing activity, in a case in which the service provider has the right and ability to control such activity; and
(C) upon notification of claimed infringement as described in paragraph (3), responds expeditiously to remove, or disable access to, the material that is claimed to be infringing or to be the subject of infringing activity.
osu! is only free of blame if it is not aware of infringing activity. Otherwise, if it is aware of such infringing activity, it has an obligation to remove this material.

Basically what I'm saying is turning a blind eye is not enough because on paper, the DMCA would theoretically protect osu! But I don't think this will hold in any court of law because the issue of negligence on the part of osu! staff will inevitably become a critical issue. If 99% of the content you upload is unlicensed and you are not doing anything to combat this issue, despite stating that your company is against this practice, then that is negligent practice and you should be held liable since you could have taken more preventative actions.

At least, this is what I am getting. Yes, the chance of this happening is low. I don't think it's impossible though, especially since DMCA's are legitimate and we get them from time to time.



This thread also sets a precedent. The osu!team is now clarifying its position that it is against profitting off of commissioned goods. But in doing so it appears to be turning a blind eye on maps that are not commissioned. Regular maps.

Furthermore, the only income osu! receives is from osu!supporter which only goes to the benefit of osu!staff. This means they are profitting off the creation of maps, as well as the efforts of BNs and QATs who push these maps for ranked. This is an issue IF BN's and QAT's are considered part of the staff, but not an issue if BN and QAT are just part of the community and regular users.
posted

Cherry Blossom wrote:

Come[Back]Home wrote:

Wait what? People actually took money to map something? Really makes you look different at those persons. Mapping is supposed to be for the fun part, and not for money or fame. I seriously can't believe it and am truly shocked. So this is what the mapping community has come to? Thats what happens when people get drunk on their fame.
If only all people there were thinking like you, that would be a good step backward that would prevent this game from self destruction.
Replace "Mapping" with "Painting" or "Drawing" or "Art" in general. :P
posted
I believe this is a good thing for the community now and especially in the long run. If there's any reason I think osu! wouldn't exist anymore in the next 20 years or so, it's because of it growing big enough to get into terminal legal trouble. Taking a stance on commissions is a step towards preserving the community's lifespan.
posted
Its really funny osu! rules even bother to bring Featured Artists up lol. There is basically a staff run group called Mapper's Guild that gets first "dibs" on the music that osu! is allegedly buying, but isn't that demotivating for overall mappers not in that group to try and map that content?

And now there are badges for exclusively for that group, so if you are not in it, its better to wait til you are accepted (which may be never) to start mapping the licensed music by osu! so you can get those badges easier.
Then you can take into consideration, especially with the popularization of pishi videos that peppy subsidizes, that now handsome/pishi/nokris/NP/dsco/etc. are in the mapper's guild that every map they release is going to be favorite of the community. So what is the point in making one of your own Featured Artist map?

Their group is pretty exclusive its not like there is any attempt by them to try and encourage people still left over trying to map the Featured Artist tracks, that are similarly left over from the Mapper's guild dibs system, to get better at mapping or help push their content for ranked. Honestly nobody gives 2 fks about those people not in the group trying to map FA obviously, why do you think there would be 0 things in place to help them + exclusive rewards for mapper's guild to just be busy with their work instead of helping anyone else? Epic.

But yeah guys lets use the "licensed" music from random japanese anime's and hope those guys who made it can't read our english website enough to DMCA us and then have a super hypocritical system in place for Featured Artist so no mappers actually want to touch the Featured Artist music.

(not to mention the ranked maps of Featured artist and just the regular uploaded music from the groups has really bad timing so people who can't fix the timing on the maps actually can't bother with the songs at all)
posted
i agree with bor, mapper's guild is still an elitist concept that doesn't represent what you'd expect from a "community based" game and it's mapping scene even though it isn't entirely relevant to this thread WHOOPS
posted
posted because monstrata brought up DMCA and licensed content
posted
That's a big F to anyone who's already paid $400+ on a commission.
posted

Princess Kisses wrote:

Linada wrote:

there is zero way to know if a mapset is a commission tho, mapper just have to not tell and nobody will know
No but the can't publicly advertise their commissions thus will be getting a lot less requests
This question still ringing on my head. How is it possible to know its for commission? Should we become spy?
(Example: there is a BN/QAT live nearby, a mapper requested to rank his/her map, then a player accidentally heard & saw their agreement. Option A: is he supossed to tail the BN/QAT & the mapper? is he gonna get paid after that?
Option B: Let them be) [i might gone too far]
posted
This is very good

But I'm still clueless on how will this rules going to affect those who operates the commissions. What's the parameter used to identify a commissioned mapset? There's no solid criteria on defining a commissioned maps other than leaked transaction information. If there's nothing indicating this, parties involved would still shut their mouth up and do this discreetly. This has been brought up many times but I didn't see anyone solving this.

APPEND: Also this could be misused by users to specifically attack member involved in ranking by orchestrating a fake agreement of payment and showing it to the public in order to ban a specific staff from the team. Unless there's a prevention of this, it could happen.
posted

Narrator wrote:

That's a big F to anyone who's already paid $400+ on a commission.
No it’s a fat L
posted

Monstrata wrote:

long post
Our terms of service do and always have covered this. Please take responsibility for your own actions. There are many mappers that ask before using content from others. There are many tracks we have cleared for use which aren’t necessarily listed under Featured Artists (you’d be surprised). Saying 99% of content is “unlicenced” (if you’re just looking at FA) may be correct, but I’d argue much more has been acknowledged/approved.

As we tried to make painfully obvious in the original statement, no rules have changed in terms of how we control your uploads (for now; EU rulings may change that). We can’t change rules because we work under existing obligatory laws. Do your own research and decide how you act on this online platform, plese.
posted

bor wrote:

Its really funny osu! rules even bother to bring Featured Artists up lol. There is basically a staff run group called Mapper's Guild that gets first "dibs" on the music that osu! is allegedly buying, but isn't that demotivating for overall mappers not in that group to try and map that content?
Mapper’s Guild was a community effort from the outset. Anyone else is welcome to join or start an effort like this and we will give them suport where possible. There is nothing special about this group – they just started doing stuff and continued on a regular basis (see project loved, which is completely the same). This is how osu! works. Basically everything you see happen is done by the communtiy, not some internal team.

I’d argue against the concept of “dibs” because multiple beatmaps can of course be made for the same tracks. To us it’s giving FA release a bit more traction and showing people how the artist can be mapped. Generally mapper’s guild map like 20% at max of new releases and it doesn’t even happen every time.

Calling it elitist is a cop-out and a disservice to people lookinjg to try new things.
posted

peppy wrote:

stuff
I explained what I meant right below it, and yeah its incredibly obvious that "one can make a map of that same song" but they probably won't because of what I explained prior.

also you said:

peppy wrote:

Anyone else is welcome to join or start an effort like this
about joining, its strictly untrue, but this isn't the thread for that.
posted
Sad
posted

bor wrote:

peppy wrote:

stuff
I explained what I meant right below it, and yeah its incredibly obvious that "one can make a map of that same song" but they probably won't because of what I explained prior.

also you said:

peppy wrote:

Anyone else is welcome to join or start an effort like this
about joining, its strictly untrue, but this isn't the thread for that.
well he did say

"Anyone else is welcome to join or start an effort like this and we will give them suport where possible."

however I'm also not very keen on dibs etc for a group of mappers, why not just promote it to everyone? unless that's already the case...
posted

Liiraye wrote:

well he did say

"Anyone else is welcome to join or start an effort like this and we will give them suport where possible." I'm talking about strictly joining the mappers guild, not everyone is welcome to join it, and it is supported by staff via > giving their own channel in X discord server related to staff, badges for people in it
also its been pretty exclusive about who joins from my and many other "qualified" (via the standards they listed on their first promotion post after going public, lol supported by staff before being public xd) people's experience(s)


however I'm also not very keen on dibs etc for a group of mappers, why not just promote it to everyone? unless that's already the case... dibs is in reference to the albums being released to the Mapper's guild before anyone else can see them for FA, they end up pushing maps for ranked internally(being within the guild) before any other mapper can access the FA music.
posted
If you have a better proposal of how to have some beatmaps ready with FA releases without giving away the releases beforehand (we want to have a bit of surprise/anticipation, right?!) then please bring that up elsewhere. This thread is not for discussing how FA/other groups should work.

And if FA won't let you in why not put in the effort to make your own group? Everything starts with effort. We aren't against seeing more interesting mapping teams forming. This used to be a more commonplace thing in the past and it resulted in really creative projects.
posted
I'm all for this. A map should be made out of creativity, not through money and stuff like that
posted

Monstrata wrote:

Furthermore, the only income osu! receives is from osu!supporter which only goes to the benefit of osu!staff. This means they are profitting off the creation of maps, as well as the efforts of BNs and QATs who push these maps for ranked. This is an issue IF BN's and QAT's are considered part of the staff, but not an issue if BN and QAT are just part of the community and regular users.
If I'm not wrong, I think osu!supporter is legally considered a donation and not a purchase, so there would be no legal issues on that part of the matter
posted
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