The fact that a lot of the new additions are guidelines make me a lot more comfortable with it since I definitely think that it would be really limiting to mappers otherwise (though I'm not sure how strictly they'll be enforced, honestly I think these should be loosely enforced for the sake of keeping diversity in ranked, only penalizing maps that are obviously trying to take advantage of their spreads in comparison to the music).
It’s been brought up a lot of times already but I feel like the rule involving LNs being simultaneously held should be a guideline, at least in Normal diffs. For instance, if you’re playing a song where 2 notes are being held at the same time at the very end on different hands, and one note is released say, 4/1 after the other one, I don’t think that would be too difficult for players playing normal diffs to execute and making this a rule seems a little too limiting to me, even at a normal difficulty level. (Tbh I think it should be a guideline for easy diffs too but that might be asking for a bit too much)
(refers to the normal difficulty guideline where if a normal diff is the lowest diff in a set, consecutive ¼ snaps can only be 2 notes long): Bumping this because I heavily agree with it, I think this could prove problematic in making normal diffs with occasional ¼ note usage for playability reasons as he stated. The fact that this is a rule is even more concerning to me. I think it should be a guideline at most.since even though most things account for BPM since you're normalizing things to 180, this doesn't and I feel like it's a little excessive, especially in low BPM maps (though if it has to be a rule I think Shoegazer's suggestion is more appropriate, well...it works well if this becomes a guideline too tbh.)
(refers to the hard difficulty guideline where jack usage is discouraged). Bumping this because I agree that clarifying what snap is discouraged would be helpful for mappers, since it isn’t indicated whether 1/3 or ½ jacks are acceptable.
Hopefully I’m not being too pedantic here since Feerum did bring up that low BPM spreads can have their higher diffs “rounded up” in a sense to follow E/N/H/I spreads but I’m assuming that this applies to higher diffs too? For instance if someone had a E/N/H/I/I spread, I think the top diff should be treated as an Extra diff by the RC. (Sorry if this sounds dumb but I just want to make sure). But a few people have brought up that it’s difficult to determine if some diffs are Insane or Extra diffs and I think this would solve that problem.
Lenfried brings up a really good point here, I think single diffs should be taken into account since there isn’t anything in the proposed draft addressing them. That being said I think they should be given more (preferably a lot more) leeway since they don’t fit in a spread to avoid limiting mappers. Since SR isn’t tied to difficulty level and single diffs aren’t tied to spreads, I think intended difficulty level should be left to mapper discretion for single diff maps in order to avoid penalizing underrated maps.
Honestly the “avoid unjustified spikes in difficulty” guideline should apply to every difficulty level imo since it’s possible to make extremely overrated difficulties that aren’t representative of the song’s intensity for any difficulty level, though
This is a really good point that should be addressed as well, and I think density spikes should be differentiated from actual difficulty spikes (for instance if you had a 6-bar long jumptrill/jumptrillable pattern in a diff with mostly easy ½ patterns vs. a 6-bar long non-jumptrillable 1/8 stream in a diff with mostly easy ½ patterns ). Both should be avoided imo for the sake of keeping difficulty level consistent in maps, but I think stating both in the guidelines would be good for clarification.
I would like to talk more about semi-dumps/dumps (specifically how to define a continuous sound and whether its acceptable to map out or not since many genres of music such as drumstep/neuro/neurofunk/dubstep etc. call for it imo) but it’s understandable that it needs to be discussed after a new RC is implemented.
Aaa I think that’s all I have to say for now? Might have to look over this a bit more/see what else has to be said but my post is kinda long anyways so I should probably stop for now lol. In any case I appreciate the hard work you guys put into this and I hope that what I have to say is at least a little helpful!
Edit: one more thing, I feel like the rules/guidelines are a little too 4k-centric as of now (for instance the jumptrill into-hand guideline), I really think things should be revised so that higher keymodes are taken into consideration here.
It’s been brought up a lot of times already but I feel like the rule involving LNs being simultaneously held should be a guideline, at least in Normal diffs. For instance, if you’re playing a song where 2 notes are being held at the same time at the very end on different hands, and one note is released say, 4/1 after the other one, I don’t think that would be too difficult for players playing normal diffs to execute and making this a rule seems a little too limiting to me, even at a normal difficulty level. (Tbh I think it should be a guideline for easy diffs too but that might be asking for a bit too much)
Shoegazer wrote:
This is extremely important (and I'm not sure if this is overlooked), but consecutive 1/4 snaps should be three notes long at least. In a map with mostly 1/2 rhythms, a 1/4 gallop (2 consecutive 1/4s) requires omitting a potential 1/2 note, which would cause timing difficulties (especially for new players) and major issues if you were to layer a certain sound consistently.
(refers to the normal difficulty guideline where if a normal diff is the lowest diff in a set, consecutive ¼ snaps can only be 2 notes long): Bumping this because I heavily agree with it, I think this could prove problematic in making normal diffs with occasional ¼ note usage for playability reasons as he stated. The fact that this is a rule is even more concerning to me. I think it should be a guideline at most.since even though most things account for BPM since you're normalizing things to 180, this doesn't and I feel like it's a little excessive, especially in low BPM maps (though if it has to be a rule I think Shoegazer's suggestion is more appropriate, well...it works well if this becomes a guideline too tbh.)
Shoegazer wrote:
You should specify that you are referring to 1/4 jack usage. 1/2 jacks (90 BPM 1/4s in this example) are usually far more bearable to players who are just approaching Hard difficulties.
(refers to the hard difficulty guideline where jack usage is discouraged). Bumping this because I agree that clarifying what snap is discouraged would be helpful for mappers, since it isn’t indicated whether 1/3 or ½ jacks are acceptable.
Kawawa wrote:
4K is actually limited to songs that can reach 'EX' icon. so most of their last level are mapped to Insane diff. so It's frequently see the 4k sets have 2-3 Insane spread. therefore If it is exist, It can maintain the same way as the past for freedom of the pattern choices and provides a reasonable technique spread between two identical icons.
Hopefully I’m not being too pedantic here since Feerum did bring up that low BPM spreads can have their higher diffs “rounded up” in a sense to follow E/N/H/I spreads but I’m assuming that this applies to higher diffs too? For instance if someone had a E/N/H/I/I spread, I think the top diff should be treated as an Extra diff by the RC. (Sorry if this sounds dumb but I just want to make sure). But a few people have brought up that it’s difficult to determine if some diffs are Insane or Extra diffs and I think this would solve that problem.
Lenfried- wrote:
Expanding on abraker's concerns but with regards to duration based spread rules. If I have a severely underrated 4.8* chart being pushed as a single diff for 4:15, would it be considered an insane or an expert? Where do you draw the line? Should the QAT be consulted with these things? The same could be said for 3:30 H single H diffs that may be underrated. If these said underrated diffs would be subject to QAT rulings, would overrated charts be treated in the same manner?
EDIT: I know I shouldn't be mentioning SR but the point still stands on defining what should set the difference between Hards and Insanes / Insanes and Experts. The purpose is to avoid potentially frustrating DQs over single diff maps over a hidden rule of some sorts.
Lenfried brings up a really good point here, I think single diffs should be taken into account since there isn’t anything in the proposed draft addressing them. That being said I think they should be given more (preferably a lot more) leeway since they don’t fit in a spread to avoid limiting mappers. Since SR isn’t tied to difficulty level and single diffs aren’t tied to spreads, I think intended difficulty level should be left to mapper discretion for single diff maps in order to avoid penalizing underrated maps.
Honestly the “avoid unjustified spikes in difficulty” guideline should apply to every difficulty level imo since it’s possible to make extremely overrated difficulties that aren’t representative of the song’s intensity for any difficulty level, though
Shoegazer wrote:
- "Difficulty spike" needs to be defined further. Are you referring to difficulty spikes in terms of density, or can it refer to difficulty spikes in timing difficulty? Maximally accurate guitar solos are notorious for being very difficult to time for KB play, and they would be considered "spiky" despite not being too much harder than a straight 1/4 or a 1/6 stream.
This is a really good point that should be addressed as well, and I think density spikes should be differentiated from actual difficulty spikes (for instance if you had a 6-bar long jumptrill/jumptrillable pattern in a diff with mostly easy ½ patterns vs. a 6-bar long non-jumptrillable 1/8 stream in a diff with mostly easy ½ patterns ). Both should be avoided imo for the sake of keeping difficulty level consistent in maps, but I think stating both in the guidelines would be good for clarification.
I would like to talk more about semi-dumps/dumps (specifically how to define a continuous sound and whether its acceptable to map out or not since many genres of music such as drumstep/neuro/neurofunk/dubstep etc. call for it imo) but it’s understandable that it needs to be discussed after a new RC is implemented.
Aaa I think that’s all I have to say for now? Might have to look over this a bit more/see what else has to be said but my post is kinda long anyways so I should probably stop for now lol. In any case I appreciate the hard work you guys put into this and I hope that what I have to say is at least a little helpful!
Edit: one more thing, I feel like the rules/guidelines are a little too 4k-centric as of now (for instance the jumptrill into-hand guideline), I really think things should be revised so that higher keymodes are taken into consideration here.