does this mean we have to change already existing Beatmaps?Sakura wrote:
Just quoting peppy here from earlier:09:40 <peppy> the company behind vocaloid prohibits using the name Hatsune Miku as artist
09:40 <peppy> or even feat.
09:40 <peppy> unless you get licensing from them
forum
[Rule] Showing composer into artist for VOCALOID songs
posted
Total Posts
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Any artist/title issues on already ranked maps will have to wait until osz2, so that they can be changed without requiring a redownload
Yes we are aware of it, there was an error in the source or something and when we were discussing it, was when we decided to come back to this thread.SkyDevil wrote:
new beatmap has KuroUsa-p as artist instead of Hatsune Miku
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/55941
Ammending this, since i forgot earlier, my bad
Also to clarify this will affect all pending/wip/graveyarded maps regardless of submission date, Ranked/Approved can be fixed later when osz2 is out anyways.
The reason for this is that it's only an artist change, and doesnt require any gameplay changes on said maps or any extra mapping work. However changing it on an already ranked map would require all players the need to redownload the map.
Also to clarify this will affect all pending/wip/graveyarded maps regardless of submission date, Ranked/Approved can be fixed later when osz2 is out anyways.
The reason for this is that it's only an artist change, and doesnt require any gameplay changes on said maps or any extra mapping work. However changing it on an already ranked map would require all players the need to redownload the map.
Moved to correct subboard.
I think the utaite / cover artist should be labeled because, with Vocaloid composers, it would be implied that a Vocaloid was used.
Also, multiple people make covers of the same song, so it would be really confusing if all the covers were labeled with the composer.
Also, multiple people make covers of the same song, so it would be really confusing if all the covers were labeled with the composer.
Throwing this in here because it'll probably be ignored in the other thread.
Example of a typical VOCALOID song uploaded on niconico douga:
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm18925604
niconico lists these tags for this song: VOCALOID takamatt 456 かごめP GUMI 鏡音レン
These information are displayed above the video:
【GUMI・鏡音レン】 ドラゴンライジング 【オリジナル曲】
【GUMI・Kagamine Len】 Dragon Rising 【Original Song】
(VOCALOID library used) (Song name)
詞・曲：takamatt mylist/15101277
(Lyrics and Composer)
イラスト：456 mylist/32823152
(Illustrator, PV maker)
マスタリング：かごめＰ mylist/13631314
(Audio Mastering)
niconico lists these tags for this song: VOCALOID takamatt 456 かごめP GUMI 鏡音レン
I think all should be added in osu! tag information.
Currently it is common for a mapper to use/steal background pictures from sites such as pixiv without permission or citing the illustrator. People could use more respect.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm18925604
niconico lists these tags for this song: VOCALOID takamatt 456 かごめP GUMI 鏡音レン
These information are displayed above the video:
【GUMI・鏡音レン】 ドラゴンライジング 【オリジナル曲】
【GUMI・Kagamine Len】 Dragon Rising 【Original Song】
(VOCALOID library used) (Song name)
詞・曲：takamatt mylist/15101277
(Lyrics and Composer)
イラスト：456 mylist/32823152
(Illustrator, PV maker)
マスタリング：かごめＰ mylist/13631314
(Audio Mastering)
We should also have respect for the illustrators/PV makers/Audio mastering engineers of these songs.arken1015 wrote:
At lest, we should have respect for composers of these songs...
niconico lists these tags for this song: VOCALOID takamatt 456 かごめP GUMI 鏡音レン
I think all should be added in osu! tag information.
Currently it is common for a mapper to use/steal background pictures from sites such as pixiv without permission or citing the illustrator. People could use more respect.
Mikarunoel131_DELETED
Well, I would write only the name of the singer of that Vocaloid cover song in artist.kurohana wrote:
Hi ~
One question: What should we write at 'artist' at a covered Vocaloid song?
For example this
this
this
If that already has been discussed, I'm sorry >.<
Because in that case, He/She is the real singer and not the creator of the song anyway.
Well, I would write only the name of the singer of that Vocaloid cover song in artist.I don't understand, Miku is the real singer of the original song too, why don't write her name as artist and write the singer's name for a cover, it's illogical.
Because in that case, He/She is the real singer and not the creator of the song anyway.
What bothers me, is that with my 5000 beatmaps, it's really not handy to find a song. When I search Vocaloid songs, I'm going to the name of the Vocaloid in the list, and I find all her songs. I never play Vocaloid songs with other artist names 'cause they are lost in the thousands of beatmaps....
Moreover, know the creator of the song is secondary for me, I think the most important information is the Vocaloid who sings.
Since I'm on Osu, the "mapper"/creator of the song was written in the "Source" field of the map, I think it's really much better like that and really much handy to find the map. Example : http://osu.ppy.sh/s/19887
It' just my opinion, but I hope you will change your point of view on this question, 'cause that's really boring to find a map in those conditions...
That's why we have tags. Punch the string "hatsune miku" into the search bar, for example, and you return every map with "hatsune miku" in its metadata.ultimafouina wrote:
I don't understand, Miku is the real singer of the original song too, why don't write her name as artist and write the singer's name for a cover, it's illogical.
What bothers me, is that with my 5000 beatmaps, it's really not handy to find a song. When I search Vocaloid songs, I'm going to the name of the Vocaloid in the list, and I find all her songs. I never play Vocaloid songs with other artist names 'cause they are lost in the thousands of beatmaps....
Moreover, know the creator of the song is secondary for me, I think the most important information is the Vocaloid who sings.
Since I'm on Osu, the "mapper"/creator of the song was written in the "Source" field of the map, I think it's really much better like that and really much handy to find the map. Example : http://osu.ppy.sh/s/19887
It' just my opinion, but I hope you will change your point of view on this question, 'cause that's really boring to find a map in those conditions...
That's why we have tags. Punch the string "hatsune miku" into the search bar, for example, and you return every map with "hatsune miku" in its metadata.Yes, I know, but I think it's more handy to have similar maps together. I use the search only when I know the map I want.
Moreover, when you search by tags, you find some bullshits. Like searching "hatsune miku", I find that : http://osu.ppy.sh/s/43409 WTF?!
I currently have 15496 beatmaps available. What about you?ultimafouina wrote:
I use the search only when I know the map I want.
Anyway, derailing. If you have enough reason to change this rule, please start a new thread in this forum.
i don't play vocaloid so don't know how much the rule affected but ..hmm..
generally we use singer but not composer as artist if there's vocal , e.g. we will use "Avril Lavegne" as the artist of the song "Take me away" but not "Evan Taubenfeld", despite vocaloid is not exactly the same, i suppose choose singer as artist is always fine.
why not consider the format like "Megpoid Gumi feats mikitoP" ?
generally we use singer but not composer as artist if there's vocal , e.g. we will use "Avril Lavegne" as the artist of the song "Take me away" but not "Evan Taubenfeld", despite vocaloid is not exactly the same, i suppose choose singer as artist is always fine.
why not consider the format like "Megpoid Gumi feats mikitoP" ?
I think Scorpiour is right ._.
Vocaloid is different from regular music. It's a program used as an instrument, and composers can use multiple Vocaloids. When composers release an album, it's tagged under them rather than the Vocaloid.
Ok, but why this rule was accepted? Because we're not allowed to wrote a Vocaloid as artist or because Peppy thinks it's better to write the composer's name?those wrote:
If you have enough reason to change this rule, please start a new thread in this forum.
'Cause if we're not allowed, that would be useless to create a new thread about the same thing.
What a silly change... Put the creator either in the tags or the source! It's the vocaloid that sings it after all, right?...
I think it's quite unreadable now, the recent Vocaloid tracks are invisible now.
When you see this map : http://osu.ppy.sh/s/32565 you can eventually think that is a Miku song thanks to the picture (even if the Append voice is distrubing), but when you see this one http://osu.ppy.sh/s/49455 you're very strong if you guess it's a Miku song whithout listen it.
And that's it for every Vocaloid song since this rule, for example this one : http://osu.ppy.sh/s/58736 I wasn't expecting a Gumi song.
Or with this one : http://osu.ppy.sh/s/48368 with the new rule, we can think it's a new Souzou Forest map sung by IA, with yuikonnu as composer ..... but it's a cover...
That and what I was saying earlier. For your question, I have 5408 beatmaps, it's less than you, ok, but it's enough to be the mess if this is disorganized .
Ok there are a search function, but it's much handy to go to the Miku's block in the map list. When you have this habit, you only play with the maps in this block, so I think it's a pity to add an useless rule like that.
When you see this map : http://osu.ppy.sh/s/32565 you can eventually think that is a Miku song thanks to the picture (even if the Append voice is distrubing), but when you see this one http://osu.ppy.sh/s/49455 you're very strong if you guess it's a Miku song whithout listen it.
And that's it for every Vocaloid song since this rule, for example this one : http://osu.ppy.sh/s/58736 I wasn't expecting a Gumi song.
Or with this one : http://osu.ppy.sh/s/48368 with the new rule, we can think it's a new Souzou Forest map sung by IA, with yuikonnu as composer ..... but it's a cover...
That and what I was saying earlier. For your question, I have 5408 beatmaps, it's less than you, ok, but it's enough to be the mess if this is disorganized .
Ok there are a search function, but it's much handy to go to the Miku's block in the map list. When you have this habit, you only play with the maps in this block, so I think it's a pity to add an useless rule like that.
I can only agree with you.ultimafouina wrote:
I think it's quite unreadable now, the recent Vocaloid tracks are invisible now.
When you see this map : http://osu.ppy.sh/s/32565 you can eventually think that is a Miku song thanks to the picture (even if the Append voice is distrubing), but when you see this one http://osu.ppy.sh/s/49455 you're very strong if you guess it's a Miku song whithout listen it.
And that's it for every Vocaloid song since this rule, for example this one : http://osu.ppy.sh/s/58736 I wasn't expecting a Gumi song.
Or with this one : http://osu.ppy.sh/s/48368 with the new rule, we can think it's a new Souzou Forest map sung by IA, with yuikonnu as composer ..... but it's a cover...
That and what I was saying earlier. For your question, I have 5408 beatmaps, it's less than you, ok, but it's enough to be the mess if this is disorganized .
Ok there are a search function, but it's much handy to go to the Miku's block in the map list. When you have this habit, you only play with the maps in this block, so I think it's a pity to add an useless rule like that.
It's easier to find a song by miku if they are among, not mixed. Yes i can search, but it's annoying to play a map and search then again...
I have respect to the composers of vocaloid songs, but it's still the vocaloid singing! We wrote the Vocaloid as Artist since i begin to play osu. Why change it now? Anyway, this is strange... I don't understand this new rule...
Mikarunoel131_DELETED
Vocaloid is an instrument created by the program Vocaloid (or is it Vocaloid 2?), There's no real singer in the song, so like instrumental songs, you use the composer as an artist.Sathron wrote:
What a silly change... Put the creator either in the tags or the source! It's the vocaloid that sings it after all, right?...
Why does the artist have to be a 'real' singer? Vocaloids are a virtual entity. I'd say that constitutes as being a singer.
I just want to point out, why "Artist" is the wrong definition for the Maker of Vocaloid Songs:
Definiton of Artist:
Definition of Musician:
Of course, for now, you can nagging me, because Musician would be as Artist correct too, but let's continue this:
Definition of Singer:
Definiton of Source:
It's not just that what I don't like on the new Rule. They are many songs where the creator is not active anymore and could change them for holding the new rule. And how already some/many people mentioned: The names are hard to find. For people with a high interest of the creators of the Vocaloid Songs, it won't be too hard at all to search, but things like HujuniseikouyuuP or Genjitsutouhi-P are totally retarded to set as Artist.
Some more things why I don't agree with this:
This is all what I can say to this. Of course, the Creator of all the vocaloid songs should not get ignored or forgotten, but it's not disrespectful, if you set them as Source. I mean, technically you can call the Source as Creator. Otherwise, Source should have to be Vocaloid, because the creator used this to creator the songs.
Definiton of Artist:
a person who works in one of the performing arts, as an actor, musician, or singer; a public performer: a mime artist; an artist of the dance.Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/artist
Definition of Musician:
(Music, other) a person who plays or composes music, esp as a professionSource: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Musical+artist
Of course, for now, you can nagging me, because Musician would be as Artist correct too, but let's continue this:
Definition of Singer:
a person who sings, especially a trained or professional vocalist.Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/singer
Definiton of Source:
One that causes, creates, or initiates; a maker.Source: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/source
a person, group, etc., that creates, issues, or originates something
It's not just that what I don't like on the new Rule. They are many songs where the creator is not active anymore and could change them for holding the new rule. And how already some/many people mentioned: The names are hard to find. For people with a high interest of the creators of the Vocaloid Songs, it won't be too hard at all to search, but things like HujuniseikouyuuP or Genjitsutouhi-P are totally retarded to set as Artist.
Some more things why I don't agree with this:
darkmiz wrote:
We should also have respect for the illustrators/PV makers/Audio mastering engineers of these songs.arken1015 wrote:
At lest, we should have respect for composers of these songs...
niconico lists these tags for this song: VOCALOID takamatt 456 かごめP GUMI 鏡音レン
I think all should be added in osu! tag information.
This is all what I can say to this. Of course, the Creator of all the vocaloid songs should not get ignored or forgotten, but it's not disrespectful, if you set them as Source. I mean, technically you can call the Source as Creator. Otherwise, Source should have to be Vocaloid, because the creator used this to creator the songs.
which is stupid, because nobody on the whole wide world considers the creator as the artist.Sakura wrote:
Vocaloid is an instrument created by the program Vocaloid (or is it Vocaloid 2?), There's no real singer in the song, so like instrumental songs, you use the composer as an artist.Sathron wrote:
What a silly change... Put the creator either in the tags or the source! It's the vocaloid that sings it after all, right?...
I don't think that you should consider Vocaloid as an instrument, it's a voice, and as such the program itself is much more of an artist than in normal synthesizers.
also, the songlisting will get messed up. you have one composer, but 5 different vocaloid, while you searched for example for all miku songs
this whole rule is just confusing, and complicated. it really should be the other way around, since most of us know the vocaloids, but not the composers.
If Vocaloid are instruments, why the genre isn't Instrumental? There are "no singers", so instead "Pop" or "Novelty" the genre would be instrumental, isn't it?Sakura wrote:
Vocaloid is an instrument created by the program Vocaloid (or is it Vocaloid 2?), There's no real singer in the song, so like instrumental songs, you use the composer as an artist.
A person who doesn't know Vocaloid would never think that is a program, he will just think it is a singer.
That wouldn't bother me if that was just for the informations of the maps, but that highly reduce the maps readability.
If this rule is not about CRYPTON's copyright issues, it just won't make sense. I want to make clear of this, because vocaloid Characters are known as singers not softwares, you should know this. If not, there's thousands of examples on the internet to get you those information. And it will be a stupid change if this is the only reason to create such a rule.Sakura wrote:
Vocaloid is an instrument created by the program Vocaloid (or is it Vocaloid 2?), There's no real singer in the song, so like instrumental songs, you use the composer as an artist.Sathron wrote:
What a silly change... Put the creator either in the tags or the source! It's the vocaloid that sings it after all, right?...
@NatsumeRin: it is about what peppy mentioned, im just pointing out reasons why i disagreed with it being an artist.
@Stefan: Then pray tell what is the correct artist of instrumnetal songs, like videogame music, like for example, Koji Kondo, Nobuo Uematsu or Yoko Shikomura.
Also osu!'s definition of source is not exactly the same as wikipedia, Source is "The Videogame/Movie/Stuff that the song comes from that made it famous" when the song by itself is already famous by itself, there's no source despite if it was used in a movie or videogame or something.
@Stefan: Then pray tell what is the correct artist of instrumnetal songs, like videogame music, like for example, Koji Kondo, Nobuo Uematsu or Yoko Shikomura.
Also osu!'s definition of source is not exactly the same as wikipedia, Source is "The Videogame/Movie/Stuff that the song comes from that made it famous" when the song by itself is already famous by itself, there's no source despite if it was used in a movie or videogame or something.
Sakura wrote:
@NatsumeRin: it is about what peppy mentioned
Essentially, if you submit a map with a vocaloid as the artist and you're hit with a claim by the owners/whoever, it is your fault. Not seeing why ppy mentioned licensing.ToS wrote:
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I haven't read this or anything, and I have no idea what people say and whatever, but I'm just throwing out what I would prefer:
Someartist feat. Somevocaloid - somesongtitle
Vocaloids are kind of a special case, and it's a bit between a singer and an instrument, so it's hard to really say if it should be included as an artist or not, but hey, this gives me the info I want to know when I see a song, so it's practical, yeah \o/
Someartist feat. Somevocaloid - somesongtitle
Vocaloids are kind of a special case, and it's a bit between a singer and an instrument, so it's hard to really say if it should be included as an artist or not, but hey, this gives me the info I want to know when I see a song, so it's practical, yeah \o/
There is something confusing me now.... ._. what about this http://osu.ppy.sh/s/45278 which we should put in Artist Arranger or Composer?
this confusing me a bit ....
this confusing me a bit ....
Why bother with such licensing stuff? We people do appreciate and credit the creators by placing the composer's name in the Source, it's already visible enough to the ones curious of its creator. Let's say those people on youtube uploading vocaloid songs out of NND, I didn't even see one that tells about illegaly having the claim, so far. They give Vocaloid names, but also the creator and NND source, and they're fine for years.Tanzklaue wrote:
which is stupid, because nobody on the whole wide world considers the creator as the artist.Sakura wrote:
Vocaloid is an instrument created by the program Vocaloid (or is it Vocaloid 2?), There's no real singer in the song, so like instrumental songs, you use the composer as an artist.
I don't think that you should consider Vocaloid as an instrument, it's a voice, and as such the program itself is much more of an artist than in normal synthesizers.
also, the songlisting will get messed up. you have one composer, but 5 different vocaloid, while you searched for example for all miku songs
this whole rule is just confusing, and complicated. it really should be the other way around, since most of us know the vocaloids, but not the composers.
So let's just go back, most people searched out and know much more with the vocaloid singer instead of composer. We shouldn't have to worry about licensing since this isn't a paid commercial game, it's a community driven F2P game! Why bother? If that licensing issue really happens to everyone, then nobody in the world would have said vocaloid singer's name to all who helped sharing a vocaloid song to people all around the world, it feels like saying a vocaloid singer is forbidden to the community if it really happens, like that would it ever happen.
We on Osu! created beatmaps to make songs more repeatable and playful to us all. We don't claim the song itself, we instead would have helped the creator making the song more popular! It's a song creator's dream, after all, having someone being able to make his own song "playable" by making a beatmap of it!
It's just my opinion. So don't take it too seriously.
This rule serves no purpose in its current form but to make searching for vocaloids harder to do. If it's not composer feat. vocaloid then it's just annoying and more difficult to keep track of vocaloid songs. Even made up characters can be considered musical artists, because they are defined as a musical persona artist.
The composer isn't singing, the program is, and that program is the main engine behind whatever persona, vocaloid is singing. Hense featuring would be the appropriate term.
The composer isn't singing, the program is, and that program is the main engine behind whatever persona, vocaloid is singing. Hense featuring would be the appropriate term.
this is already finalized.
peppy wrote:
Please use tags to show vocaloid specifics.
Bad rule is bad. Finalized bad rule is still bad.
But hold on for a moment. Does this also count for UTAU characters? (like Kasane Teto, Fuuga Koto etc.)