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[Rule] Showing composer into artist for VOCALOID songs

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blissfulyoshi
I suggest using this format as a fix "AVTechNO! feat. Megurine Luka - "DYE" "

This format still lists which vocaloid it is (no confusion as who is the singer)
This format would solve the source conflict.

I think those are the only criteria that players need to care about. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Natteke

blissfulyoshi wrote:

I suggest using this format as a fix "AVTechNO! feat. Megurine Luka - "DYE" "

This format still lists which vocaloid it is (no confusion as who is the singer)
This format would solve the source conflict.

I think those are the only criteria that players need to care about. Please correct me if I am wrong.
This would probably work
ziin
I would prefer to have all of my hatsune miku songs be in the same grouping. So I can easily ignore them.

I also really hate combining tags.

It's a broken system that doesn't need to be fixed IMO, but I will support whatever people here decide.

http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/301336
Perfume - Baby Cruising Love
Perfume ft. peppy - Baby Cruising Love
are not next to each other, even though they are the same song with a different singer.
peppy
Hatsune Miku is not an artist. In fact, the guidelines of using vocaloid commercially (how most of the songs are distributed) state that you can't use the names of the characters in the song metadata itself. None of the doujin artists that produce the bulk of vocaloid tracks use the vocaloid's name as the artist, because it is incorrect. The fact it is being used this way on osu! is wrong.

"feat." is the best proposed solution thusfar. Personally I'd leave the vocaloid names in tags (possibly without a space so they can be grouped for searching).
Shiirn
sakuzyo feat. Hatsune Miku - ChaiN De/structioN


Yeah, looks good to me.
peppy
Keep in mind adding "feat." is butchering the song's actual metadata. Tags is a much better solution in my eyes, as long as it is searchable for those trying to find a vocaloid tracks.
Shiirn
it also doesn't group them together on the songlist, unless you want to whip up some code where certain tags can group songs together (BMS / vocaloid / IIDX spring to mind)
Sakura
Maybe if we could make tags between quotation marks "Hatsune Miku" work as a single tag that has a space on it.
eldnl
yey.
GigaClon
Wouldn't it work to put Hatsune Miku in the source, cause the fact that Hatsune Miku is used is the fact that its popular (reason for source?). If I want to group like songs together I just put them in a subfolder of Songs.
ziin
As long as we get better tag searching and support, sure.

I still want "sakuzyo hatsune miku" to find all songs with those tags in the tags and or artist, and not just search for the exact match.

Will old maps be grandfathered in with osz2 or will they be changed?

Sakura Hana wrote:

Maybe if we could make tags between quotation marks "Hatsune Miku" work as a single tag that has a space on it.
Searching "miku hatsune" should pick up "hatsune miku"
NatsumeRin
A typical title of a vocaloid song in nico is like 【GUMI】シルバーバレット【虹原ぺぺろん】, could be devided into 3 parts.

1. The vocaloid used
2. Song title
3. The producer's name/PV included/original/(maybe something i forget)

As we can see, 1 & 2 is nearly 100% followed as a rule, so why can't we put Miku or GUMI as artist here? in this system, composers are put into source so people could still know them at the time they decide to download. Also it's the way i support the most.

"feat." would also be fine imo but in fact there're few examples using a format like this.... (i could only remember that sasakure.UK once used this format...)

But only put Miku/GUMI in the tags won't be a good idea, it goes a totally different way with nico/youtube.
ziin

NatsumeRin wrote:

A typical title of a vocaloid song in nico is like 【GUMI】シルバーバレット【虹原ぺぺろん】, could be devided into 3 parts
Just pointing out that there is no reference to "Megpoid" in the typical title. You have to know that GUMI is Megpoid GUMI, and not some other GUMI. "Megpoid" would almost certainly be in the tags.
SonicFan344

kanpakyin wrote:

As I have seen.Most of the composer of the song was written to the source.So we can know who is the composer.

like this:


hum?
This is a good idea. Showing composer in the Source is very good
animez15
i agree to all but if u think of a composer...that is ok for me...it doesnt mind at all.
blissfulyoshi
I just want to say that we should come to a standard with this thread before forcing anyone to change the artist and source of their song. I don't want people all having different standards and enforcing these mixed standards.
lepidopodus
I've seen something like this: 'Cosmo@BousouP feat. Hatsune Miku'. Mabe too long?
NatsumeRin
The general thing for current vocaloid videos (on both nico and youtube) is the vocaloid used should be put in a very obvious place.

Also personally I don't mind a long name there.
blissfulyoshi

lepidopodus wrote:

I've seen something like this: 'Cosmo@BousouP feat. Hatsune Miku'. Mabe too long?
I sgugested somethign similar on page 2, so I guess this is probably going to be the accepted format, but I think some people are still against having the vocaloid's name anywhere in the artist field. (Also, there are probably a few other issues that I forgot to mention from thee other pages)
NatsumeRin

blissfulyoshi wrote:

I sgugested somethign similar on page 2, so I guess this is probably going to be the accepted format, but I think some people are still against having the vocaloid's name anywhere in the artist field. (Also, there are probably a few other issues that I forgot to mention from thee other pages)
I don't see anyone with an against attitude if we use feat. format....

ziin's "2 or more artist" would also be a good idea.
ziin
I have a minor problem with long names.
http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/316633

The only thing I want is a better search.
Jenny
>Composer as source as in Cosmos for example, source there is "otetsu" which is the composer
emergist

ziin wrote:

The only thing I want is a better search.
M2.
those
Bump this up. We need to get a consistent way of doing this, seeing how this was left unresolved and is appearing both ways.
Sakura
Just quoting peppy here from earlier:

09:40 <peppy> the company behind vocaloid prohibits using the name Hatsune Miku as artist
09:40 <peppy> or even feat.
09:40 <peppy> unless you get licensing from them
SkyDevil
I don't think this should change, you can see clearly the vocaloid artist that made the song in the top left corner while selecting a beatmap
bomber34

Sakura wrote:

Just quoting peppy here from earlier:

09:40 <peppy> the company behind vocaloid prohibits using the name Hatsune Miku as artist
09:40 <peppy> or even feat.
09:40 <peppy> unless you get licensing from them
does this mean we have to change already existing Beatmaps?
Sakura
Any artist/title issues on already ranked maps will have to wait until osz2, so that they can be changed without requiring a redownload
SkyDevil
new beatmap has KuroUsa-p as artist instead of Hatsune Miku

http://osu.ppy.sh/s/55941
Sakura

SkyDevil wrote:

new beatmap has KuroUsa-p as artist instead of Hatsune Miku

http://osu.ppy.sh/s/55941
Yes we are aware of it, there was an error in the source or something and when we were discussing it, was when we decided to come back to this thread.
Sakura
Ammending this, since i forgot earlier, my bad

Also to clarify this will affect all pending/wip/graveyarded maps regardless of submission date, Ranked/Approved can be fixed later when osz2 is out anyways.
The reason for this is that it's only an artist change, and doesnt require any gameplay changes on said maps or any extra mapping work. However changing it on an already ranked map would require all players the need to redownload the map.
Loctav
Moved to correct subboard.
kurohana
Hi ~

One question: What should we write at 'artist' at a covered Vocaloid song?
For example this
this
this
If that already has been discussed, I'm sorry >.<
Tenshi
I think the utaite / cover artist should be labeled because, with Vocaloid composers, it would be implied that a Vocaloid was used.

Also, multiple people make covers of the same song, so it would be really confusing if all the covers were labeled with the composer.
JappyBabes


Throwing this in here because it'll probably be ignored in the other thread.
darkmiz
Example of a typical VOCALOID song uploaded on niconico douga:
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm18925604
niconico lists these tags for this song: VOCALOID takamatt 456 かごめP GUMI 鏡音レン

These information are displayed above the video:
【GUMI・鏡音レン】 ドラゴンライジング 【オリジナル曲】

【GUMI・Kagamine Len】 Dragon Rising 【Original Song】
(VOCALOID library used) (Song name)

詞・曲:takamatt mylist/15101277
(Lyrics and Composer)

イラスト:456 mylist/32823152
(Illustrator, PV maker)

マスタリング:かごめP mylist/13631314
(Audio Mastering)

arken1015 wrote:

At lest, we should have respect for composers of these songs...
We should also have respect for the illustrators/PV makers/Audio mastering engineers of these songs.
niconico lists these tags for this song: VOCALOID takamatt 456 かごめP GUMI 鏡音レン
I think all should be added in osu! tag information.


Currently it is common for a mapper to use/steal background pictures from sites such as pixiv without permission or citing the illustrator. People could use more respect.
Mikarunoel131_DELETED

kurohana wrote:

Hi ~

One question: What should we write at 'artist' at a covered Vocaloid song?
For example this
this
this
If that already has been discussed, I'm sorry >.<
Well, I would write only the name of the singer of that Vocaloid cover song in artist.
Because in that case, He/She is the real singer and not the creator of the song anyway. :)

Just wondering because, when I write it like this it should be the same for Vocaloid.
The vocaloid is singing the song even if it is a programm, not the creator.
Well I can`t change the rules and it is only my opinion.
ultimafouina
Well, I would write only the name of the singer of that Vocaloid cover song in artist.
Because in that case, He/She is the real singer and not the creator of the song anyway.
I don't understand, Miku is the real singer of the original song too, why don't write her name as artist and write the singer's name for a cover, it's illogical.

What bothers me, is that with my 5000 beatmaps, it's really not handy to find a song. When I search Vocaloid songs, I'm going to the name of the Vocaloid in the list, and I find all her songs. I never play Vocaloid songs with other artist names 'cause they are lost in the thousands of beatmaps....

Moreover, know the creator of the song is secondary for me, I think the most important information is the Vocaloid who sings.

Since I'm on Osu, the "mapper"/creator of the song was written in the "Source" field of the map, I think it's really much better like that and really much handy to find the map. Example : http://osu.ppy.sh/s/19887

It' just my opinion, but I hope you will change your point of view on this question, 'cause that's really boring to find a map in those conditions...
those

ultimafouina wrote:

I don't understand, Miku is the real singer of the original song too, why don't write her name as artist and write the singer's name for a cover, it's illogical.

What bothers me, is that with my 5000 beatmaps, it's really not handy to find a song. When I search Vocaloid songs, I'm going to the name of the Vocaloid in the list, and I find all her songs. I never play Vocaloid songs with other artist names 'cause they are lost in the thousands of beatmaps....

Moreover, know the creator of the song is secondary for me, I think the most important information is the Vocaloid who sings.

Since I'm on Osu, the "mapper"/creator of the song was written in the "Source" field of the map, I think it's really much better like that and really much handy to find the map. Example : http://osu.ppy.sh/s/19887

It' just my opinion, but I hope you will change your point of view on this question, 'cause that's really boring to find a map in those conditions...
That's why we have tags. Punch the string "hatsune miku" into the search bar, for example, and you return every map with "hatsune miku" in its metadata.
ultimafouina
That's why we have tags. Punch the string "hatsune miku" into the search bar, for example, and you return every map with "hatsune miku" in its metadata.
Yes, I know, but I think it's more handy to have similar maps together. I use the search only when I know the map I want.
Moreover, when you search by tags, you find some bullshits. Like searching "hatsune miku", I find that : http://osu.ppy.sh/s/43409 WTF?!
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