The current state of Taiko rankings.

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BabySnakes
Quality post. Please disable converts from awarding pp, fix taikomania, remove HDFL and FL (or at least make them not influence pp) and fix up the SR. Oh and reset everyone's pp.
Edgar_Figaro
Also one thing you didn’t mention is that HDFL skin that shifts the spawn location of notes so that HDFL doesn’t require any memorization (and this is without people needing to DS)
G1yori
my stand on FL is so that if you attempt to skin the taikohitcircle.png and the taikohitcircle@2x.png to a size greater than 128x128 and 256x256, each respectively, it will switch back to those aspects of the default skin. for HDFL, i say just make the notes not be rendered in the first place, and only do appear when they are added to your HP. hope we can fix the taikomania skin issue, and manage to keep FL/HDFL somehow.
Cynplytholowazy

Edgar_Figaro wrote:

Also one thing you didn’t mention is that HDFL skin that shifts the spawn location of notes so that HDFL doesn’t require any memorization (and this is without people needing to DS)
This got patched already.
Brames
Very well said :)
Catgirl
can't really agree more with the mania stuff.

top VSRG players have more speed and skill than top taiko players because VSRGs have more complexity in playing patterns, due to having 2, 3, 4 keys required at a time. in taiko, you're never required to press more than one key at a time (except finishers but you can ignore them and pp isn't affected). so it's objectively more simple to play a hard taiko map converted to mania than a hard 4k mania map.

i believe that if they wanted to, and if they were given an adequate amount of time to farm to the same extent that top taiko players have, top mania players could occupy 90 of the top 100 positions on global taiko rankings using the methods here. (and if you use the converter and dualscreen with it, you can add HDFL to every map for even more pp since you're dualscreening anyway.)

since there's not a real fix for dualscreening, i don't think there's much of a fix for this problem, but it's something that needs to be worked on.
Vulkin
Taiko is, and has been dying for a while right now.
Yeah sure people can remove pp from converts, and theres HDFL, but I am pretty darn sure it wont work because they can just use the same mod combinations as top players (HDDT), so if they could (pretty sure its "can" at this point), theyre able to do it, and how would one notice a taiko player from a taikomania player? Its undetectable! since theres KKDD players as well, which only changes how does one read a map...
Topic Starter
Gezoda
For those who brought up HDFL skin: I did not include it as the time between mass discovery and the devs patching, so I don't think a shit ton of people got hold of it and thus the effect of the thingy was limited to a few people at best. DS is a very old problem and is sadly difficult to detect without human investigation (so are taikomania and m2t converter)
BabySnakes
Taikomania can just be patched out of the game. People can use other converters but then it falls into the same category of dualscreening. If we remove the accessibility of these exploits less people will use them
DarkStoorM
I'm not familiar with the original versions, but in TnT, were there any game modifiers that granted bonus points? If not, we could as well consider mods as being unranked or no-multiplier (fun mods), then reset PP or the entire leaderboard + community outrage. As we are moving into Lazer, at this point I'm wondering what happens with the ranking if there will actually be an implied score v2.

By the way, I guess you did not consider macro recording for nomod->HR/HD/FL plays, because it's detectable, right? Not throwing any names, but I have seen these in the past. Not mentioning a literal replay parser/bot, but a human replay.

I got some mixed feelings about taikomania skins. It's like putting someone new in front of a taiko gameplay and slapping a 1-year experience on him, just like that. Sure, it might be unfair to legit new people to taiko, but what can you do? Like, force a default skin? Or even better, remove skinning, let osu! draw hitobjects - it eliminates the majority of people.

Leaderboard is the problem /s
Topic Starter
Gezoda
The only "mod" in original Taiko games that granted a potential difference in score with the current way is Shin-Uchi mode, which is literally comboless scoring. As in, every note yields the exact same amount of points for a perfect/good hit.

About macros, it didn't really cross my mind but this is a good point to bring in the OP whenever I get comfortable with pinpointing the exact problems, and I guess actual replay parsers are detected? Not 100% sure, although I've seen scores that were the exact same as the #1 player stay for a bit of time. Tied to that is replay uploader, I guess.

All in all, there are so many ways to ruin the rankings and deligitimize taiko as a clean and fair mode (people with experience beforehand such as Taikojiro and Owatatsujin players are playing fair, so they're out of the question)

About Taikomania:

You're correct with this analogy that it could also mean we have someone with a year of experience playing the game, however most (95+%) osu!mania players have never played osu!taiko in their life, and if they did start, there is such a stark difference in performance that they are on par with beginners.

I'd personally ask some people who have experience in both modes but main osu!mania to see what's their stance on it, however I don't know many of them since I'm a bit removed from the KBSM/osu!mania community to know enough to collect their opinions.
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