I have to go with Yes, but there's nothing anyone can do about it since there is very simply nothing that can be done about it.
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Cheating Big Notes in Taiko
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Is using one key to hit big notes cheating?
Total votes: 195
my keyboard has those macro keys where i can press multiple keys with 1 key, but i consider it cheating so i would never use it (if i played taiko)
back to 2009, people can hit finishes with mouse, and now it's cancelled. Therefore there's no doubt that finishes are not supposed to hit with 1 key (based on gameplay and respecting an instrument) but we can do very few about this (e.g. keys can be binded physically instead of program).
I have seen some replays with the full map played in big notes. I consider it as cheating and I know players that can hit big notes in 1/4 perfectly with their own skills. I'm also trying to improve my big notes skill, but i can only do last note Big or full streams of single color Big notes ~180bpm
I can play BPM180+ 1/4 big notes and even for more complicated patterns like Roaddoggz and many more them of can do so, the problem is some of them don't hv such skills. Same as dual screen it's theoratically possible to not to be detected.
Evidence:
Evidence:
Same, I can hit 1/4 big notes in ~165 BPMs, but not on complicated patterns like wmfchris did. Only simple ones like kdddk or dkkkd.wmfchris wrote:
I can play BPM180+ 1/4 big notes and even for more complicated patterns like Roaddoggz and many more them of can do so, the problem is some of them don't hv such skills. Same as dual screen it's theoratically possible to not to be detected.
(reminds me of Dragon Soul's gameplay in The Big Black)
I have mixed feelings about this (and I'm also shocked that nobody voted for punishment, except me), using autoit is considered cheating, because you're using a program to change the outcome of your score. I fully support what wmfchris said
AC players can use one hand to hit big notes, if someone implemented that players would stop using autoit (probably).
(I apologise for any grammar errors)
However ... there's no certainty that the player isn't using a tatacon to play, the tatacon's center acts as both left and right note (in other words hit the center and you output 2 hits: both left and right don or katsu).wmfchris wrote:
there's no doubt that finishes are not supposed to hit with 1 key.
AC players can use one hand to hit big notes, if someone implemented that players would stop using autoit (probably).
(I apologise for any grammar errors)
What if I hit small notes with two keys? Is this cheating? Because when big and small notes mix together, I tend to hit all notes as if they are big.
no that isn't considered cheating, you don't get any points by doing that what so everdarkmiz wrote:
What if I hit small notes with two keys? Is this cheating? Because when big and small notes mix together, I tend to hit all notes as if they are big.
Last Remnant_old
It is unfair, but you can't really prove it. For example, I have Razer Blackwidow keyboard and I can set that keys X and C hits both X and C, therefore each time I hit any don, it would be double.
One good example is player 3UNI who often uses this in songs like Barusa of Mikosu, which have streams with big notes.
One good example is player 3UNI who often uses this in songs like Barusa of Mikosu, which have streams with big notes.
Also peppy will not see it as cheat, since it is none. Similiar case like double screen.[Lance] wrote:
I have to go with Yes, but there's nothing anyone can do about it since there is very simply nothing that can be done about it.
Cho_old
Topic Starter
This is definitely what I saw in replays, which is why I was wondering. I had forgotten that the mouse let you do that.wmfchris wrote:
back to 2009, people can hit finishes with mouse, and now it's cancelled. Therefore there's no doubt that finishes are not supposed to hit with 1 key (based on gameplay and respecting an instrument) but we can do very few about this (e.g. keys can be binded physically instead of program).
Yeah i have tested the mouse thing a few days ago. It will give the score during play but not in the replay.
I don't know why people keep saying that simple macro's like this aren't trackable, because they're more than trackable.
In the case of a separate key from your default 4 keys being used to press big Taiko notes:
Poll the keyboard for any inputs that are not the 4 keys that the player has set, track the offset in the song that they were hit at as well. If the player is repeatedly hitting that key(s) for big don/kat's, then they're clearly using a macro for that key.
No matter what, all keyboard input is trackable (even if its a special macro key), so this would be easily trackable in the above case.
Example: The player is playing a stream consisting entirely of big Don's, the player has the A and S keys set to hit both the z and x (little don keys) at the same time. Considering only the first 4 Don's, we would have an output that looks like this:
Azx Szx Azx Szx
If the player is pressing the A and S keys on time with the big Don's, then they are more than likely using a macro.
In the case of setting the left don/kat key to hit the right don/kat key at the same time and vice versa...
Do I even need to explain this one? The player will end up ONLY hitting big Don/Kat's, considering that the mouse doesn't hit hit finishers with a single click anymore, there could easily be a check to see if the player has only hit big Don/Kat's during a song.
zx xz zx xz
Ergo, considering a real player will generally NOT be alternating the first key hit when hitting two keys at the same time for a big Don, this can be used as a check against players who hit all big Don's/Kat's through a song.
In the case of a separate key from your default 4 keys being used to press big Taiko notes:
Poll the keyboard for any inputs that are not the 4 keys that the player has set, track the offset in the song that they were hit at as well. If the player is repeatedly hitting that key(s) for big don/kat's, then they're clearly using a macro for that key.
No matter what, all keyboard input is trackable (even if its a special macro key), so this would be easily trackable in the above case.
Example: The player is playing a stream consisting entirely of big Don's, the player has the A and S keys set to hit both the z and x (little don keys) at the same time. Considering only the first 4 Don's, we would have an output that looks like this:
Azx Szx Azx Szx
If the player is pressing the A and S keys on time with the big Don's, then they are more than likely using a macro.
In the case of setting the left don/kat key to hit the right don/kat key at the same time and vice versa...
Do I even need to explain this one? The player will end up ONLY hitting big Don/Kat's, considering that the mouse doesn't hit hit finishers with a single click anymore, there could easily be a check to see if the player has only hit big Don/Kat's during a song.
..But karterfreak! What if they actually did play the song that way legitimately?Still simple. There's a very small delay in when a key is pressed before the macro occurs. Therefore if a player is alternating... lets say z/x keys for small don's, they will end up with a key output looking similar to this (uses the same scenario as the previous example)
zx xz zx xz
Ergo, considering a real player will generally NOT be alternating the first key hit when hitting two keys at the same time for a big Don, this can be used as a check against players who hit all big Don's/Kat's through a song.
Er, the only case where this really should be an issue is in osu-diffs on taiko, where you can get big dons/kats during streams. Asides from that, there isn't much point to tracking this, seeing as how the timewindow for hitting a big don/kat is way more lenient than graphically visible.
karter remember here's logic is that you can't ban anyone unless it's been like really proved that you cheated. Remember aevv? It was the most damn obvious cheater ever, it still took 999 mods to spectating and the guy saying publicly GUYS I'M CHEATING LOL BAN ME for him to get banned. You can cheat in osu! if you take care not to be catch, especially in Taiko I guess since it's damn easy to cheat FL/HD/HR. Don't know how anti-cheat systems work nowadays, but what aevv used couldn't be detected in months, he had scores there for ages and I doubt some of them got deleted... many applications are, I think, "detectable", but still it's been proven some stuff can still be used and they can't really do anything about it because every anti-cheat system has flaws.
I'm aware every anti-cheat system has flaws, but we're talking about macro-detection here. That isn't exactly a hard topic to at least have some protection against.
Topic Starter
Peppy doesn't want to ban anyone unless 100% positive. There is no 100% way to detect macros.
The important thing I suppose is the fact that the only time this is any use is when playing crappy maps that nobody cares about, which is good enough for me. I've got a pretty resounding "yes, but" vote, which is what I expected, and shows me that the community cares in a similar way I do.
The important thing I suppose is the fact that the only time this is any use is when playing crappy maps that nobody cares about, which is good enough for me. I've got a pretty resounding "yes, but" vote, which is what I expected, and shows me that the community cares in a similar way I do.
i think you should delete the "/should" from the second option >_<
not being able to do something about it doesn't mean we shouldn't want to
not being able to do something about it doesn't mean we shouldn't want to
That's a pretty common tactic, and it's legal. And it's not really that surprising, because there's a large penalty for hitting big notes as small ("loss of bonus" if you prefer), but no penalty for hitting small notes as big. So this tactic effectively earns you a bonus that you'd have a hard time getting by playing the notes as written... which is a good incentive to do it.darkmiz wrote:
What if I hit small notes with two keys? Is this cheating? Because when big and small notes mix together, I tend to hit all notes as if they are big.
Cheating would be a little be harder if there were penalties going both ways (at least people would have reason to not just hit big notes for everything... or they could, they'd just not score as well). But, of course, that's a considerable change over the original... and it's kind of late to change considering the number of plays already scored.
Hey guys, are you listening? We had such discussions many, many and many times(really many many times) before and it is obviously how people cheat in taiko.OnosakiHito wrote:
Also peppy will not see it as cheat, since it is none. Similiar case like double screen.
But as also many, many times before said by peppy: As long as this isn't any kind of program which gives you the possibility to cheat, nothing will happen. We can talk so much as we want about this, but unfortunaly nothing will happen at the end... orz
Probably there will be changes in the future if there are too many "cheated" scores in taiko, but this will still take some time before it really happens.
I'm just gonna put this out there. I'm a C++ programmer and i know plenty of ways of completely overriding macros. If peppy really wanted to remove the ability to emulate a macro or a hotkey then he could, with ease.
The simplest thing is almost all cheats like that will just bind 2 keys to one, but this can be totally avoided by reading the low level handles anyway (your personal window gets it prior to any other hooks).
This is also possible to integrate into C# (which is definitely whats used for Osu! as it uses XNA) so there's no excuse really. I can only assume peppy doesn't care enough to do it :/
The simplest thing is almost all cheats like that will just bind 2 keys to one, but this can be totally avoided by reading the low level handles anyway (your personal window gets it prior to any other hooks).
This is also possible to integrate into C# (which is definitely whats used for Osu! as it uses XNA) so there's no excuse really. I can only assume peppy doesn't care enough to do it :/
cheaters gonna cheat.
Live with it.
Live with it.
As i have ZXCV setting (ZV for blue, XC for red), i can actually press every D (x+c) comes, just by switching from 2-handed to 1-handed for pressing them.
The issue comes when there are big K, in that case i just have to press them the normal way, but it happens that i press them bad and get a green (generally at high BPMs).
If people is wondering about how i got the K in BASARA, i just switched my setting , putting ZX blue and CV red.
The issue comes when there are big K, in that case i just have to press them the normal way, but it happens that i press them bad and get a green (generally at high BPMs).
If people is wondering about how i got the K in BASARA, i just switched my setting , putting ZX blue and CV red.
I see the lybydose #1's on taiko.