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Does everyone read the same way?

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Topic Starter
SpasticSurgeon
I think it's sort of hard to talk about reading but I'll do my best. When I play I focus entirely on the music while looking at the circles and the patterns fit into the music. I know this sounds dumb but Azer has said he reads the same way.

Happystick has said that he reads visually and that just blows me away. Does it strike anyone as weird that people can have totally different approaches to the game and still both be great players?

This isn't to say that Azer doesn't have any visual aspect to his reading or that happystick has no musical reading, but I can imagine that the music is secondary for him and that is just so weird for me.

How do you read?
zoklev
I don't understand how somebody can read by listening to the music
raccoongamer

zoklev wrote:

I don't understand how somebody can read by listening to the music


I agree with this, music can be helpful in understanding the music patterns, but relying mostly on music is something strange to me, because it’s always actually unclear whether mapper chose to take these sounds into consideration or not.
Topic Starter
SpasticSurgeon

raccoongamer wrote:

zoklev wrote:

I don't understand how somebody can read by listening to the music


I agree with this, music can be helpful in understanding the music patterns, but relying mostly on music is something strange to me, because it’s always actually unclear whether mapper chose to take these sounds into consideration or not.


The way it works for me is that I figure out where the notes fit into the song based on the context.

For example on a lot of songs there is a build up of notes, and then the speed of notes doubles, and then a really big stream into a fast part. This is a really obvious example but evey song has musical patterns that they follow.

If I'm listening to the music and it starts to swell, and then I see a circles approaching at a faster rate than normal, the I realize what it will sound like and play it in time. It might seem strange but it happens very quickly and (for me) seems to be better than relying on getting lucky with the rhythm.
Napoli
I focus on the music too but that's mostly when I play Hidden or the difficulty I'm comfortable with, when playing something out of my comfort-zone, I usually rely on visuals.
Akanagi

zoklev wrote:

I don't understand how somebody can read by listening to the music
ManuelOsuPlayer
No.
No even the same people read in same way each map.
There are maps whata re easier using AR circles and other what don't
DXPOHIHIHI
I read the music
koemada

zoklev wrote:

I don't understand how somebody can read by listening to the music
Skidayo
idk how everyone read
but i think music listening is necessary to read old maps(2007~2009) .
ManuelOsuPlayer

koemada wrote:

zoklev wrote:

I don't understand how somebody can read by listening to the music
I guess they read the circles to the rhythm, and not to spawn timming.

Skidayo wrote:

idk how everyone read
but i think music listening is necessary to read old maps(2007~2009) .
You can SS those using HD and music and hitsounds to 0%. It's like: When the circle fade away I click 1 second after at AR3. 0'5 seconds after at AR6... (Just an example) I don't know how many time, but my eyes does. After click the first circle well using AR circke you know you have to click all the circles at same timming than that one.
Liyuu
I used to "read" the music up until i had 2KPP, which at that point i already encountered 1-2 jumps and to me it did not emphasize the music so i found it hard and just did 50-Music and 50-Visual
kai99
i "read" and this is significant because i turn off the music and still hit really decently but music helps when theres funky rhythm

also weird thing about reading. i adjusted my monitor and i can actually "read" cross screen jumps, as in i will look at it, aim and hit. it's the weirdest thing ever.
ADelicateOrange
I don't think everyone reads differently. We have to inherently read the same because the game relies on the precision of the player to correctly read Approach Circles. However, what we can say is that there are different avenues to understanding the timing of those circles.

Azer (and myself included) follow rhythms of the song because there tends to be some mapping patterns around melodies, counter-melodies, accents, anything musically related within the song. Then, it comes down to isolating what is being mapped and boom you only need to follow its rhythm and accents to get a good gist of the map. Game experience over time completes that pattern recognition and understanding what should be on the map at any given time, depending on the genre and mapper. There is a big downfall because when someone over-maps, then... you just go to visually reading until it calms down again.

Happystick (and I'm guessing most other players) use visual cues because... well the song is just kinda there in the background to look nice. Players still consciously use audio cues to keep time, but visually are focused on where the approach circles are on the map and are doing serial memorization with minute timing markers to understand when they should click. People can give their opinions, but I assume that every combo is essentially its own Approach Circle cluster for timing. This gives far more leeway for reading because you don't need to focus on the song just the approach circles as they appear on the screen.
Topic Starter
SpasticSurgeon

ADelicateOrange wrote:

I don't think everyone reads differently. We have to inherently read the same because the game relies on the precision of the player to correctly read Approach Circles. However, what we can say is that there are different avenues to understanding the timing of those circles.

Azer (and myself included) follow rhythms of the song because there tends to be some mapping patterns around melodies, counter-melodies, accents, anything musically related within the song. Then, it comes down to isolating what is being mapped and boom you only need to follow its rhythm and accents to get a good gist of the map. Game experience over time completes that pattern recognition and understanding what should be on the map at any given time, depending on the genre and mapper. There is a big downfall because when someone over-maps, then... you just go to visually reading until it calms down again.

Happystick (and I'm guessing most other players) use visual cues because... well the song is just kinda there in the background to look nice. Players still consciously use audio cues to keep time, but visually are focused on where the approach circles are on the map and are doing serial memorization with minute timing markers to understand when they should click. People can give their opinions, but I assume that every combo is essentially its own Approach Circle cluster for timing. This gives far more leeway for reading because you don't need to focus on the song just the approach circles as they appear on the screen.


Good points, but I am tending to think that players really have to use both to actually play the game. Isn't whether someone is "visual" or "music" based dependent on their focus?
ADelicateOrange
Good points, but I am tending to think that players really have to use both to actually play the game. Isn't whether someone is "visual" or "music" based dependent on their focus?


I would agree with your first sentence. My explanation wasn't to create a dichotomy, rather I was trying to create a Pie Chart with each individual player giving a specific percentage value to either Rhythm Reading and Visual Reading adding up to 100%. What I would like to acknowledge is that rhythm reading can never be 100% in OSU!Standard, but visual reading can. If you don't believe me, imagine watching two people who are completely new to OSU!Standard, one person is blind-folded and the other is playing with a muted sound-system. Both would be horrendous at the game, but it would be very clear within the first 30 seconds that one person has an ability to potentially pass (muted sound-system) and the other is stuck with an impossible task (blind-folded). I say OSU!Standard because at <1* songs you could spam hard enough to pass Taiko or Mania, I'm not sure about Catch the Beat though I assume the blind-folded participant would be stuck with an impossible task again.
RaneFire
At its core, sight-reading (jumps in particular), are a major component for your aiming hand. Coordinating both hands together require at least a 50/50 split for visual reading vs rhythm perception... And at the very least, for new players, the learning process necessitates a good balance. I think it's pretty safe to say this game is mostly about sight-reading/coordination when you factor in jumps. Rhythm is a guide, and guides are not necessary, but definitely help (a lot if you have good perception of rhythm structure). Once the mechanics become second nature though, your focus changes. That doesn't mean the previous is any less important, it is just delegated to being a background process in your mind. From there... preferences are formed, and I think that's what this topic is about.

The answer is Yes and No.

I think the answer to this question is biased towards what a person feels they need to focus on in order to play well. No one person is finished improving at osu! Hopefully that clarifies the logic a bit. So to corroborate with ADelicateOrange: Yes everyone reads the same way, but the mental energy that we dedicate to a component of that is variable.

I don't really pick rhythm or visual. My preference is definitely coordination-based, so I'm all about balance between the two. In essence, I actually enjoy learning, and when that process slows down, I get bored. Hence not playing much. Forever nub.

Been a while since I've posted. I do miss healthy technical discussions.
Topic Starter
SpasticSurgeon

RaneFire wrote:

At its core, sight-reading (jumps in particular), are a major component for your aiming hand. Coordinating both hands together require at least a 50/50 split for visual reading vs rhythm perception... And at the very least, for new players, the learning process necessitates a good balance. I think it's pretty safe to say this game is mostly about sight-reading/coordination when you factor in jumps. Rhythm is a guide, and guides are not necessary, but definitely help (a lot if you have good perception of rhythm structure). Once the mechanics become second nature though, your focus changes. That doesn't mean the previous is any less important, it is just delegated to being a background process in your mind. From there... preferences are formed, and I think that's what this topic is about.

The answer is Yes and No.

I think the answer to this question is biased towards what a person feels they need to focus on in order to play well. No one person is finished improving at osu! Hopefully that clarifies the logic a bit. So to corroborate with ADelicateOrange: Yes everyone reads the same way, but the mental energy that we dedicate to a component of that is variable.

I don't really pick rhythm or visual. My preference is definitely coordination-based, so I'm all about balance between the two. In essence, I actually enjoy learning, and when that process slows down, I get bored. Hence not playing much. Forever nub.

Been a while since I've posted. I do miss healthy technical discussions.
I agree with both you and orange that rhythm is not essential to the game while vision is. However, I think the way that people approach the game varies a good amount in what processes are allowed to become unconscious.

Sure, visual reading is technically the most fundamental because without it you literally couldn't play the game (unless you had the movements in your hand - unsure if possible). However, that doesn't mean that it's the most optimal to focus on consciously.

I read someone on here say that they literally have no reading ability and learn patterns for every song. I've seen people say they can't comprehend people who read with music at ALL, and then there's people that focus on the music and let their aiming hand do what it does. I personally prefer the lattermost, but I will admit that music isn't the most essential. That said, I think it could be the most worthwhile to focus on. The fact is that maps are mostly ranked based on their cohesion with the music and how well they express it. So, if you are in tune with how the music will sound you can more or less take some strain off your unconscious visual reading.

I've heard Rohulk say that focus is like a plate and you can only have so many on the plate at one time, so maybe the way I'm looking at this is flawed because I underestimate how many things are consciously focused on at once by better players.

I find your statement that you focus on the 50/50, or coordination, interesting. Have you heard that humans can't multitask and that they only switch between things? Obviously it's kind of a moot point because some people are good at that kind of thing, but my point is that I feel like that would be very straining for me to focus on both at once. Your focus pool might be stronger than mine though.
RaneFire

SpasticSurgeon wrote:

I've heard Rohulk say that focus is like a plate and you can only have so many on the plate at one time, so maybe the way I'm looking at this is flawed because I underestimate how many things are consciously focused on at once by better players.
I won't disagree. My best guess is still a guess. It's for this reason that I reserved judgment of what skills anyone would need to focus on, because you can increase your focus on one aspect of reading for two opposite reasons, being bad or good at it. It's also not always as simple as just picking one, either.

SpasticSurgeon wrote:

I find your statement that you focus on the 50/50, or coordination, interesting. Have you heard that humans can't multitask and that they only switch between things? Obviously it's kind of a moot point because some people are good at that kind of thing, but my point is that I feel like that would be very straining for me to focus on both at once. Your focus pool might be stronger than mine though.
Yes, humans can't multitask conflicting processes, but if the process is congruous (for the same purpose), it's fine. The human brain is pretty complex, and I can't assume to know exactly what's going on and where, when playing osu! - The coordination that I'm referring to is also not limited to these two variables.

What I'm really referring to is mastery of everything. Wherever I notice an area of weakness, I intentionally shift my focus to it; whatever it is. I'll also look for maps that give me trouble in my weakest areas. As such, I remain calm always, because I am expecting difficulty and also seeking it. The trade-off is time, but the reward is consistency, which is what I mean by my focus as being "coordination-based." The net result is that I never have an "off day" and have retained most of my skill, including stamina, after 8-10 months break.

As for "focus pool being stronger" - None of us have access to other people's brains to make an accurate comparison. But perhaps you're right, we shouldn't underestimate it. There's a bunch of factors at play, including chemical. And I do take good care of my body now, after past health complications. Maybe that helps, but I don't expect anyone to follow what I do, without a personal conviction.

SpasticSurgeon wrote:

I read someone on here say that they literally have no reading ability and learn patterns for every song.
When people say stuff like this, I really wonder if they are being truthful, posturing for attention or just hate themselves.
ManuelOsuPlayer
I listened the perfect way to read is to watch all the screen, see the new patterns spawn, focus your eyes on the circle just before tapping it using tunnel vision, and expand your vision again to check for new spawns.
I use peripherical vision instead. I guess everyone do it on his way, and that's why some are better at jumps, others at tech, others at streams, others at low AR. And not everybody it'als good/bad at same map styles.
I change 100% my way to read low ar, compated to other things. Like i'm not even the same person. If I try to play low at/old maps on same way I play AR10 I can't hit a shit. And same if I try to play 8ar+ in the way I play low ar.
Juuuuuuuuul
The more i like a song/map, the less i use visual.
On map where i have the feeling that the mapper put stuff just because there is a sound here and here, i'm forced to focus on visual, and not on audio.
Orofil
idk how I read I just play the game
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