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Is monitoring citizens good or bad?

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DaddyCoolVipper
Monitoring people to make sure they don't commit crime = fine

Monitoring people to judge their feelings and tailor your actions accordingly = what the FUCK
Green Platinum
Could easily be rationalised as monitoring for health reasons.
laport
Define good or bad
Topic Starter
abraker

laport wrote:

Define good or bad
Good = what is best for citizens
Bad = what is worse for citizens
Meah
you can no longer watch child porn
DaddyCoolVipper

Green Platinum wrote:

Could easily be rationalised as monitoring for health reasons.


There's no point having a discussion like this because you can rationalise and justify anything however you like. I'm just referring to the ACTUAL usage, not the stated usage of the monitoring party.
B1rd

DaddyCoolVipper wrote:

Monitoring people to make sure they don't commit crime = fine

Monitoring people to judge their feelings and tailor your actions accordingly = what the FUCK
That's an arbitrary distinction if I ever saw one. What is a crime to you? And using that justification, you can justify 1984 levels of surveillance.

abraker wrote:

laport wrote:

Define good or bad
Good = what is best for citizens
Bad = what is worse for citizens
Define "what is best and what is worse".
DaddyCoolVipper
Read the post above yours, B1rb
B1rd
So, you can put cameras in people's homes as long as the actual usage is to prevent crime? This is disregarding the fact that it's next to impossible to control how the data will actually be used.
DaddyCoolVipper

B1rd wrote:

So, you can put cameras in people's homes as long as the actual usage is to prevent crime? This is disregarding the fact that it's next to impossible to control how the data will actually be used.
If we lived in a magical world where you could put cameras in people's homes and the only use of the footage would be crime prevention then yeah sure.
B1rd
What is "crime"? And so, if we lived in a magical world where we could monitor people and have that only used for crime prevention, then I suppose that people who didn't want to have cameras put on their property would be jailed?
DaddyCoolVipper

B1rd wrote:

What is "crime"?
We've reached peak anarchist brain

B1rd wrote:

And so, if we lived in a magical world where we could monitor people and have that only used for crime prevention, then I suppose that people who didn't want to have cameras put on their property would be jailed?
I've not been particularly considering this hypothetical world very deeply. This isn't a subject that interests me, even though I usually like hypotheticals- probably because I can already tell that this subject isn't going to go anywhere meaningful with further exploration.
B1rd
You just lack imagination. Technological advancement always threatens to change the societal dynamics. And I think the state having the ability to spy on its citizens 24/7 and make them follow any arbitrary edicts to be a horrible idea.
DaddyCoolVipper
You can quite easily make arguments for and against monitoring citizens depending on your optimism/pessimism towards its use by the government. Like, you could probably make a fairly convincing argument for why it would be a great thing, right?
B1rd
Hardly.
Green Platinum
Monitoring people to prevent crime obviously undermines the pressumption of innocence. The article does talk about monitoring for the sake of productivity whom our capitalist friend should agree with I mean the peasants who disagree can just get new jobs
DaddyCoolVipper

B1rd wrote:

Hardly.
If you can't make a convincing argument for the people who you disagree with, then that's something to mentally explore
B1rd
The fact that governments shouldn't spy on people should be obvious. Just read basically any dystopian-future novel ever written. '

The real question is how much should monitoring be an accepted norm within society, and how much should we value privacy. May people might not like wearing brain-monitoring devices in their work place. But those same people probably give away their personal information for free online.
VinZentVanDough

B1rd wrote:

wearing brain-monitoring devices in their work place.


So i can't imagine lolis or my waifu when i'm at work?
dung eater
If it's for the children everything is okay. Think of the children!! https://archive.org/stream/Orwell1984preywo/orwell1984preywo_djvu.txt
A Medic
Depends on the reasons, the methodologies being used, and the criteria for being monitored.

I expect every government on this planet to monitor their citizens in some way, but once you start monitoring people because they are having "wrong think" that's when sht is unacceptable.
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