Oh great to see this is finally happening owo)b
Will take my time to go over it and see if I can suggest anything
Will take my time to go over it and see if I can suggest anything
Note that Easy difficulties MUST be present in a mapset for it to be rankable. "you start to know how to read and press simple patterns" is the mindset this difficulty follows.happy April Fools everyone! \:D/
Note that Easy difficulties MUST be present in a mapset for it to be rankable. "you start to know how to read and press simple patterns" is the mindset this difficulty follows.The current raking criteria said that " Single-mode mapsets must include a reasonable spread of at least two difficulties. The lowest difficulty cannot be harder than a Normal and it must comply with its respective mode’s difficulty-specific Ranking Criteria. " Wouldn't it cause a conflict ?
Shield: A note which appears shortly after a long-note.I think it should be either before and after.
Okoratu wrote:
Glossary
Inverse: A type of pattern that replaces all regular notes with long notes in a given section. Rather, it is a pattern where blank space in the music is filled with long notes, which have to be released momentarily at the time where you would normally press a regular note.
Trill:FourTwo or more notes that alternate within two columns.
Okoratu wrote:
General Guidelines
Avoid using storyboard sampled hitsounds with similar volume to hitsounds on notes. As storyboarded hitsounds can overwhelm and distort audio feedback from objects in the map, reduced volume should be used in identical samples as hitsounds on objects.
It should mention an exception for keysounded maps, in which the samples are part of the music. Lower difficulties have them as storyboard samples, while higher difficulties have them as hitsounds.
Okoratu wrote:
Beginner RulesBeginner Guidelines
- Slider velocity changes that alter the scrolling speed of the map are disallowed. An exception to this rule would be creating slider velocity changes to unify the scroll speed in BPM-variable maps. Scroll normalization is mandatory and must be done in maps with variable BPM.
To simplify the logic of the ruleset, the last sentence should be made a separate rule before this one, and then the title of this rule should be changed to "Slider velocity changes that do not normalize the scroll speed of the map are disallowed". Same with the rules in Easy since they are the same- Long notes across all columns must have a minimum spacing of 2/1 beats. Long notes are generally difficult for beginners, and as such should only be used sparingly.
This rule is redundant. since it is not possible to place a LN less than 2/1 beats apart from each other by following the previous rules. Unless you intend to mean that the spacing between LNs should be counted from the release of the first LN, to the start of the second LN (instead of from start of the first to the start of the second one). In that case, I think you should add an exception if the first LN is 4/1 or longer, to keep allowing one of the most common beginner patterns.
Chords should be placed in a way that the player hits it with only one hand. That way, the player would require less hand coordination and would make the pattern easier to play.
Chords that require the player to hit several notes with the same hand require more coordination than chords where the player mirrors what he is doing with each hand, for the same total amount of notes. I think the guideline should be doing chords of up to 4 notes with hands mirroring each other, or chords of 2 notes with one hand
Hard, Insane and Expert Guidelines
I think, in general, the difference between a "Long term" and "Short term" SV change should be more explicitly defined. The guidelines currently allow long term SV increases of up to x1.1, which is still a significant increase that affects readability; Long-term SVs above x1.0 should be discouraged in the guidelines.
Full Tablet wrote:
Trill:FourTwo or more notes that alternate within two columns.
this doesn't really matterBeginner wrote:
Chords should be placed in a way that the player hits it with only one hand. That way, the player would require less hand coordination and would make the pattern easier to play.
This is debatable. I can hit chords that spread the notes on two hands easier than chords in one hand (i'm new to 7k btw despite being #5k)Beginner Guidelines wrote:
Chords should be placed in a way that the player hits it with only one hand. That way, the player would require less hand coordination and would make the pattern easier to play.
Not even on finishers? Should just move to guidelines tbh andHard Rules wrote:
Do not place any chords in the middle of streams.
why is this in guidelines instead? Jacks are way harder to hit for beginners. How about limiting the number of notes to only two in a chord and can only be present every x measure?Hard Guidelines wrote:
Mini-jack usage is discouraged, especially on higher BPM. These can be too physically demanding for players of this level.
Disallow ghost notes, add maximum number of notes in a chord representing snares/kick/finish, maximum length of jacksOkoratu wrote:
This is the current status of debate after they reached a deadlock. They wanted to allow semi-dumps but couldnt come up with criteria for them
idk what any of this means i just remember reading it so i think it's relevant
Different key amounts within a mapset must be treated as different gamemodes and require a respective independent difficulty spread. Therefore each key amount must have an independent difficulty spread. For example if you want to add a 7K difficulty to your set, you must design a whole 7K spread. If you want to add an additional 4K difficulty to your set, you must also design a whole 4K spread.This seems to be missing completely, and its actually pretty important. is it intentional or the whole draft was meant as an additional to the current one we have?
You can't use uninherited timing sections when there is no actual BPM changes. In other words, you can't use uninherited timing sections slowly to change the scrolling speed. Use inherited timing sections and SV changes instead.
Only use breaks when they are necessary, for example an absolute silent period within the song.I think these should also be mentioned as well
You should use at least two different key amounts for your set. It is suggested to make your set more accessible to a wider audience.
Different key amounts within a mapset should have a similiar difficulty spread. This is to keep parity between different key amounts and satisfy different key amount players.
Do not place any chords in the middle of streams.you're not serious lol. this is actualy the most intuitive thing we have in Hard all the time. I disagree with this
Inverse patterns must not be used. They are a very advanced type of pattern and that they require a lot of coordination to properly execute it.what if the whole concept of the mapset were built just like that, or it was made by a GD? i mean, there should be a leniency between each map style used by GDs that are prefer using inverse patterns instead of ricey. Maybe move this to guideline instead
imo this is good for searching a specific type of patterning. standard should adopt this too.Sinnoh wrote:
General
- "Add the style of your beatmap into their tags"
wat
why
Note that Easy difficulties MUST be present in a mapset for it to be rankable. "you start to know how to read and press simple patterns" is the mindset this difficulty follows.
Beginner difficulties are for players who have absolutely no experience in this game mode whatsoever. This would be recommended for them so they have a starting grasp of playing the game mode and to get themselves used to which key to press for which column.i dont think we need beginner difficulty for some reasons :
Difficulties like these are not required for a full, rankable spread. However, they are most certainly recommended for the song to be accessible by new players.
Column: Columns are the lines in the editor where the notes get placed. The editor uses 0|1|2|3, but many modders prefer to use 1|2|3|4, which is important for modding in osu!mania. These numbers may vary depending on the beatmap’s keymode.- Minijack has no hyphen to it, and minijacks refer to 2 consecutive notes on the same column. The minijack itself has a faster "jack" motion than other patterns around it, but its rhythmic density is usually the same compared to other notes in the section.
Slider Velocity: For osu!mania, slider velocity adjusts the speed in which the notes scroll.
Teleports: A note whose motion is quick enough to skip any given location of the playfield instantaneously.
Mini-jack: A small number of consecutive notes in the same column, usually performed at a faster pace compared to surrounding notes.
Stream: A constant supply of notes with the same intervals that do not repeat to create a mini-jack.
Chords: Two or more notes performed at the same time.
Graces: Two or more notes performed in a quick succession.
Long note: A note that must be held and released in succession.
Release: The end of a long note which must be released within a certain timing window to score the entirety of the note properly.
Inverse: A type of pattern that replaces all regular notes with long notes in a given section.
Trill: Four or more notes that alternate within two columns.
Bracket: A pattern that uses alternating fingers to perform it correctly.
Shield: A note which appears shortly after a long-note.
Gluts: A constant supply of chords which do not repeat in all of the same columns.
Jumps: Two notes performed at the same time.
Jumpstream: A stream interlaced with jumps.
Jumptrill: A trill consisting of two alternating jumps.
Split jumptrill: A jumptrill which uses both hands at the same time to perform correctly - i.e two one-handed trills.
Hands: Three notes performed at the same time.
Roll: A variation of a stream consisting of notes that go from the first to the last column or last to the first column, usually done in quick succession.
Hard:Rules:
- Note snappings of 1/8 and above are disallowed. These can be too physically demanding for players of this level. An exception to this rule would be the usage of grace notes that are at higher-end snaps (1/8, 1/12 and 1/16) as they are only used to accentuate gracing sounds.
- Do not place any chords in the middle of streams.
- Inverse patterns must not be used. They are a very advanced type of pattern and that they require a lot of coordination to properly execute it.
Guide:
- Avoid 1/4 streams made of more than 16 notes. These can be too physically demanding for players of this level.
- Mini-jack usage is discouraged, especially on higher BPM. These can be too physically demanding for players of this level.
- Long notes should not be shorter than 1/4 in length.
Insane:- Players are far more than capable enough of hitting 1/8 streams at 150 BPM when they reach Insane level. It would be better to use a higher BPM range (e.g. 190) instead or to remove the guideline altogether.
- Avoid 1/8 streams made of more than 8 notes. Streams of this type of snap are harder to pull off than snaps at the lower end, and as such should only be used if the song warrants it.
- Avoid using split rolls or any kind of complicated 1/8 streams. These types of patterns are much harder to execute properly and shouldn't be used unless the song is abrasive enough to warrant that type of pattern. Use simple rolls as an alternative so it matches the intensity of that portion of the song without making it difficult to play through.
- Using jumptrills of any kind that lead to a hand is discouraged. This is if the genre of the map is not intended to be technical, as this pattern is difficult to hit at a moderate to high speed. For 4K, this creates a mini jack that drastically increases the pattern difficulty. If a hand is really necessary, delete the note before it that would create the minijack.
- Using split jumptrills / brackets is discouraged. These are much more physically exhausting, awkward and take more control to properly execute compared to the standard jumptrills that alternate hands. Do not use both of these as if they are the same unless they are shorter than 5 notes long. Rare cases that allow these to be used are if the music here is abrasive enough to warrant the physical exhaustion.
Expert:- The first guideline is too vague to mean anything.
- Keep hand balance concepts clear for higher difficulties. For example, a regular jumptrill plays way easier than a split handed jumptrill so you have to be careful on its usage for high BPM songs.
- Long note release timings should use similar snaps than their press timings. Long notes that are into more jazz rhythm should usually have 1/3 or 1/6 releases while more rigid songs might use 1/4 or 1/8 snaps. Combining LN snaps for releases is fine but do it with caution.
Yeah, we have basically talked to allow some kind of "dumps" in Mania but as much as we tried we couldn't come to some proper conclusion to be posted with this here.This is not hard to do.
This does not mean we dropped the topic!
I would describe such pattern as "patterns that don't follow any specific sounds within music, but instead the sound intensity, timbre , pitch, etc or a mix of any in a generalized manner". I don't think the definition is concrete, but it can offer grounds to stand on.Okoratu wrote:
This is the current status of debate after they reached a deadlock. They wanted to allow semi-dumps but couldnt come up with criteria for them
Do you mean this? Because even in expert diff, the rule says it can't apply long-term SV for more than 1.1xabraker wrote:
I also think there should something against making slider velocity high for too long. I see nothing disallowing a mapper from applying x1.5 for one minute in normal diffs unless I glossed over something
Those are in guidelines, not rules. Still allows an edgy mapper to argue for itMaxus wrote:
Do you mean this? Because even in expert diff, the rule says it can't apply long-term SV for more than 1.1xabraker wrote:
I also think there should something against making slider velocity high for too long. I see nothing disallowing a mapper from applying x1.5 for one minute in normal diffs unless I glossed over something
Okay so, the sense behind this was because o!m has a really really really harsh learning curve.. Easy diffs give a nice starting for o!m, sadly these get skipped way to often and we don't have that many proper easy diffs which also have pattern like a easy diff should have. With the difficult specific criteria we kinda show how a easy should look so new people get a proper start into the Mode.Mentholzzz wrote:
Note that Easy difficulties MUST be present in a mapset for it to be rankable. "you start to know how to read and press simple patterns" is the mindset this difficulty follows.The current raking criteria said that " Single-mode mapsets must include a reasonable spread of at least two difficulties. The lowest difficulty cannot be harder than a Normal and it must comply with its respective mode’s difficulty-specific Ranking Criteria. " Wouldn't it cause a conflict ?
Also if this ranking criteria become real, the 2.00* diffculty rule will be gone , rite ?
>I actually thought the stuff with different o!m keymodes are treated as different modes is already somewhere written. Here or in the general criteria.. If not we will def. add this because it's indeed an important point.Rivals_7 wrote:
General
>Rules
Different key amounts within a mapset must be treated as different gamemodes and require a respective independent difficulty spread. Therefore each key amount must have an independent difficulty spread. For example if you want to add a 7K difficulty to your set, you must design a whole 7K spread. If you want to add an additional 4K difficulty to your set, you must also design a whole 4K spread.
You can't use uninherited timing sections when there is no actual BPM changes. In other words, you can't use uninherited timing sections slowly to change the scrolling speed. Use inherited timing sections and SV changes instead.
This seems to be missing completely, and its actually pretty important. is it intentional or the whole draft was meant as an additional to the current one we have?
>Guidelines
Only use breaks when they are necessary, for example an absolute silent period within the song.
You should use at least two different key amounts for your set. It is suggested to make your set more accessible to a wider audience.
Different key amounts within a mapset should have a similiar difficulty spread. This is to keep parity between different key amounts and satisfy different key amount players.
I think these should also be mentioned as well
Let me reply to point 1 and 3 only. So first of all. Beginner difficulties are not required for a rankable spread. I think it's also stated pretty big in the draft. We simply thought it could be a cool idea because even a lot of current ranked Easy difficulties are simply too hard for a low of newbies.Virtue- wrote:
i dont think we need beginner difficulty for some reasons :
1. whats the different between beginner and easy difficulty? i think the gap between isnt too much and what we need in a rankable mapset is an easy difficulty that has been stated before. I know its not a must to put beginner difficulty in our mapset, but its kinda trigged me if anyone put beginner difficulty and easy on his/her map. like, its completely useless because they're both almost the same.
3. And if its a MUST to put beginner difficulty on the mapset, i think you need to reconsider this again. Lets say that we make an easy and simple song (eg. R3 Music Box) how can you make a beginner difficulty for that song? i mean, easy and normal difficulty is quite enough (you can make it harder tho)
thats all i want to say, please correct me if my argue or the way i thought about it is wrong. thank you!
Yes, i kinda agree with this, since new players they mostly play a converts easy difficulty and then found really hard and bad pattern after they climbed through advanced diff (for example random mini jack, shield, etc) which is mostly used in insane difficulty. having mapped properly like most of ranked mania maps could guide properly to play osumania. tho we can map 2 Normal or Hard escalatingFeerum wrote:
Okay so, the sense behind this was because o!m has a really really really harsh learning curve.. Easy diffs give a nice starting for o!m, sadly these get skipped way to often and we don't have that many proper easy diffs which also have pattern like a easy diff should have. With the difficult specific criteria we kinda show how a easy should look so new people get a proper start into the Mode.
I mean, it was a risky step of us but we thought we try it and see what the community say's to it. Ofc it causes a problem with the General Ranking Criteria and should be majority be fine with this step, it has to be re-written to fit to the Mania criteria.
Makes sense on paper, but when I started out I mostly played autoconverts and didn't touch mania maps. I played autoconverts because that's what most of the weeb anime music was at and the extremely low OD (OD2 maybe 4) made it easy to just have fun playing maps for songs I liked. It was maybe 3 months in when I was at 2* level that I started playing mania maps to improve my skills. That's is pretty much normal difficulty. Half year in I was already trying 3* maps. I don't remember playing easy maps that were not autoconverts. I don't.Arzenvald wrote:
i think they will appreciate if the map having easy diff to learn how to play the basic rhythm..
i believe that shouldnt be the case becauseArzenvald wrote:
Looks like a quiet game-changing rule, with every LN should never be connected one to each other with 1/1 space between LN object
Tell me if im wrong
that means normal cant also have that kind of note usage and that's kinda dumb.Normal Rule wrote:
Long notes across all columns must have a minimum spacing of 1/2 beats. Lower spacing would make the patterns hard for a normal player to keep up with the release timings. Spacing of 1/4 is an exception as it’s allowed only for shield patterns for this level of difficulty
> Long notes at the same column must have a minimum spacing of 2/1 beats. Lower spacing would make the patterns hard for a player to keep up with the release timings.after i re-read the draft, this rule appears to be applies ONLY for 2 or more consecutive Long Notes, yes?
> Long notes across all columns must have a minimum spacing of 1/1 beats. Lower spacing would make the patterns hard for a player to keep up with the release timings.
The way I see it, these rules serve as something to say how to name the difficulties correctly. It is very possible to make a 3.7* hard and a 5.2* hard just because of how broken the star rating is. Nobody is preventing you from making the patterns you want to make. They just fall under a category.shionelove wrote:
:boring maps,same patterns and same rhythms from R3 Music Box to goreshit.
:uncomfortable rhythm structures not only for beginners but players who like to get 1m score.
i always say,if there is a overmap which is made for harder diffs,there is a undermap which is made for easier diffs,too.
i strongly recommend remove these pattern rules,or at least move them guideline,or o!m is going to be dead.
Only inherited timing points are allowed to create slider velocity changes. Take caution as chart readability gets heavily affected when using higher slider velocity values. These should also be snapped to a rhythm divisible by the snapping of the present notes. For example, 1/2 notes would ideally utilize 1/4, 1/8, or 1/16 snappings, as opposed to 1/3.
Note snappings of consecutive 1/4 and higher should not be present in this difficulty level. This essentially means that there must be at least more than ¼ of a beat of distance between every note. This is to make sure beginner players start off with an easy experience in the game.
Note snappings of 1/6 and above should not be used. This is to make sure beginner players start off with an easy experience in the game.