I actually phrased that wrong firetruck meNathan wrote:
RLC is not infamous at all
forum
Thoughts on today's mapping scene? (Vulgar language warning)
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Total Posts
32
Topic Starter
tbh the main problem stems from the fact that people are often neither capable of giving or receiving criticism properly.
Giver of the Criticism needs to focus on the direct issue and avoid insults as this is netiher productive or helpful.
Receiver of Criticism needs to not take it personally that their work is being criticized and accept the feedback.
The problem is that people don't give proper criticism and at the same time people see some modding as being a personal attack when it is not and this makes them feel like they need to "defend" their map unnecessarily. This goes for more than just Osu but life in general. The majority of people are really bad at giving/taking criticism.
Giver of the Criticism needs to focus on the direct issue and avoid insults as this is netiher productive or helpful.
Receiver of Criticism needs to not take it personally that their work is being criticized and accept the feedback.
The problem is that people don't give proper criticism and at the same time people see some modding as being a personal attack when it is not and this makes them feel like they need to "defend" their map unnecessarily. This goes for more than just Osu but life in general. The majority of people are really bad at giving/taking criticism.
I just went through various pending maps containing higher difficulties and moddingV2 enabled, and I couldn't find any instances of this hatred, though we all know it is present. This leads me to believe one of two things:
- 1) We think it's common due to exposure bias
2) I am looking in the wrong place
it's pretty much an ape circus haha
Topic Starter
abraker wrote:
I just went through various pending maps containing higher difficulties and moddingV2 enabled, and I couldn't find any instances of this hatred, though we all know it is present. This leads me to believe one of two things:It's likely a mix of both. There is one maps in many that try to push on the ranking criteria and a few in many that are not close to current meta, so it's like finding a needle in the heystack. The ones that we do hear about are the ones that got enough exposure due to the mapper being stubborn enough for the map to be qualified and reach a wider audience.
- 1) We think it's common due to exposure bias
2) I am looking in the wrong place
to be honest, it's a matter of dissatisfaction and double standard treatment, I think. I mean, try to have a look on the amount of BNs ranking their maps, and comparing it to the number of ranked mappers, both non-BNs and the BMG group, and I think it's a clear distingushed borderline over the power of circlejerking. I might sound too biased cuz I haven't been inside the BNG as of yet.
Let's not forget the controversy such as Monstrata getting booted out of BNG, Sotarks ranking songs compilation, and etc. which was worrying me over how will the mapping community is going to advance with this kind of attitude
Underdogs wrote:
I think. I mean, try to have a look on the amount of BNs ranking their maps, and comparing it to the number of ranked mappers, both non-BNs and the BMG group, and I think it's a clear distingushed borderline over the power of circlejerking.
First 50 maps let's go
1) BN
2) non-BN
3) non-BN
4) Elite Mapper
5) non-BN
6) non-BN
7) non-BN
8) QAT
9) BN
10) BN
11) non-BN
12) non-BN
13) non-BN
14) non-BN
15) non-BN
16) non-BN
17) non-BN
18) BN
19) non-BN
20) non-BN
21) non-BN
22) BN
23) QAT
24) Alumni
25) non-BN
26) BN
27) non-BN
28) non-BN
29) non-BN
30) non-BN
31) non-BN
32) non-BN
33) GM
34) BN
35) non-BN
36) non-BN
37) non-BN
38) BN
39) non-BN
40) BN
41) non-BN
42) BN
43) QAT
44) BN
45) BN
46) non-BN
47) non-BN
48) BN
49) non-BN
50) non-BN
51) non-BN
52) BN
53) BN
54) non-BN
2) non-BN
3) non-BN
4) Elite Mapper
5) non-BN
6) non-BN
7) non-BN
8) QAT
9) BN
10) BN
11) non-BN
12) non-BN
13) non-BN
14) non-BN
15) non-BN
16) non-BN
17) non-BN
18) BN
19) non-BN
20) non-BN
21) non-BN
22) BN
23) QAT
24) Alumni
25) non-BN
26) BN
27) non-BN
28) non-BN
29) non-BN
30) non-BN
31) non-BN
32) non-BN
33) GM
34) BN
35) non-BN
36) non-BN
37) non-BN
38) BN
39) non-BN
40) BN
41) non-BN
42) BN
43) QAT
44) BN
45) BN
46) non-BN
47) non-BN
48) BN
49) non-BN
50) non-BN
51) non-BN
52) BN
53) BN
54) non-BN
Count:
non-BN: x33,
BN: x15
QAT: x3
Elite Mapper: x1
GM: x1
Alumni: x1
Sooooo for all gamemodes non-BN outnumber BN about 2:1
Things not taken account would be GD's, how this applies to individual gamemodes, and difficulties within the sets
Topic Starter
oh, my bad. It's just that I'm a bit questioned about the application of Code of Conduct. Also I'm questioned about the std only but whatever. I didn't do my research properly but I do know that a lack of attitude control, and the tendency to mock newbies mapping, are probable. (There's this one reddit post that memes a user that is trying to ask for opinions in #modhelp, so it's safe to base this discussion based on thatabraker wrote:
Underdogs wrote:
I think. I mean, try to have a look on the amount of BNs ranking their maps, and comparing it to the number of ranked mappers, both non-BNs and the BMG group, and I think it's a clear distingushed borderline over the power of circlejerking.First 50 maps let's go1) BN
2) non-BN
3) non-BN
4) Elite Mapper
5) non-BN
6) non-BN
7) non-BN
8) QAT
9) BN
10) BN
11) non-BN
12) non-BN
13) non-BN
14) non-BN
15) non-BN
16) non-BN
17) non-BN
18) BN
19) non-BN
20) non-BN
21) non-BN
22) BN
23) QAT
24) Alumni
25) non-BN
26) BN
27) non-BN
28) non-BN
29) non-BN
30) non-BN
31) non-BN
32) non-BN
33) GM
34) BN
35) non-BN
36) non-BN
37) non-BN
38) BN
39) non-BN
40) BN
41) non-BN
42) BN
43) QAT
44) BN
45) BN
46) non-BN
47) non-BN
48) BN
49) non-BN
50) non-BN
51) non-BN
52) BN
53) BN
54) non-BN
Count:
non-BN: x33,
BN: x15
QAT: x3
Elite Mapper: x1
GM: x1
Alumni: x1
Sooooo for all gamemodes non-BN outnumber BN about 2:1
The Code of Conduct for Mapping and Modding applies to everyone involved in those respective communities - but with a huge number of mappers and modders and only a handful of moderators, we're not able to proactively check all forum threads, beatmap discussions, disqus threads, in-game chat, etc...
If you see or experience inappropriate behaviour in any of these places, please report it to a member of the Quality Assurance Team (or Global Moderation Team) and we will investigate it. If you need to report a member of the Beatmap Nominators or QAT in particular, you can use this anonymous report form.
Edit: Moved this to Beatmaps > General Questions since this is osu!-related and probably more relevant over there than in semi-Offtopic
If you see or experience inappropriate behaviour in any of these places, please report it to a member of the Quality Assurance Team (or Global Moderation Team) and we will investigate it. If you need to report a member of the Beatmap Nominators or QAT in particular, you can use this anonymous report form.
Edit: Moved this to Beatmaps > General Questions since this is osu!-related and probably more relevant over there than in semi-Offtopic
Except there have been literally no visible results to show for the report form. Sure some people are still in probation, but it limits almost literally with how probation currently works.
The Probation period is intended to give Beatmap Nominators the opportunity to improve or correct their mistakes. Given that the report form has existed for less than one cycle (the typical length of a Probation phase), it's to be expected that there have not been major actions taken yet. This does not preclude action from being taken in the future where appropriate.
Where immediate action was needed to be taken from the report form, it was taken. Your claim that there have been no visible results is unfounded.
Where immediate action was needed to be taken from the report form, it was taken. Your claim that there have been no visible results is unfounded.
Topic Starter
JBHyperion wrote:
The Probation period is intended to give Beatmap Nominators the opportunity to improve or correct their mistakes. Given that the report form has existed for less than one cycle (the typical length of a Probation phase), it's to be expected that there have not been major actions taken yet. This does not preclude action from being taken in the future where appropriate.
Where immediate action was needed to be taken from the report form, it was taken. Your claim that there have been no visible results is unfounded.
Can't say it happens to probation. It probably happens to non-probation, fully recognized BNs. I can't actually point it out over some drama's, but something like soulfear's case, is something that should not be overlooked as your typical drama. A mapper quitted content creation, all due to people actually giving an amazing number of negative feedbacks instead of actually helping them, which is against the Code of Conduct.
If only there were a case of behavioral score for each mapper (and that's pretty much impossible)
(Also sorry for posting at somewhere irrelevant, should have been here lol)
Shohei Ohtani
Thoughts on today's mapping scene? People need to grow the fuck up.
Idk maybe it's from 8 years of being told that my maps are fucking shit that make me not really attuned to babying mappers.
Should people be more helpful and work with mappers who are getting their foot in the door? Hell yeah. I'm personally working on getting back into that myself (It's hard when these mappers don't post in my queue or approach me
. I can only help people that seek help). I did this a lot as a BN, by ranking a lot of people's first maps and working to make modding more accessible by my mod4mod queue (which I made as a motivation for people to actually start modding, as I feel it's one of the most important parts to becoming a good mapper). But a lot of that shit comes with sort of having to tell people that what they tried sucks, or that something doesn't really translate well to the game, which is where people sort of lose their shit.
What people forget about the game is that the game is about producing content for a mass audience of users that want to play their favorite songs (or farm pp, but that's another issue entirely). And people want that shit sort of done in a way that is appealing to them. That's why things like aesthetics were so important for a long time, because the belief of the community was that the way a map looked played heavily into the way the map played. It's why things like copy-paste are out of style now, because people didn't enjoy it because it wasn't fun to play. Mappers are at the will of the playing community, as much as we'd like it to be the other way around sometimes. The playing community isn't as friendly, nor does a lot of that community really have the words and vocabulary to sort of articular their sentiments in a way that a lot of modders would prefer to see it. So you get a lot of "I don't like this" "This sucks" "This doesn't play well" "this map is bad"
So what you end up getting is mappers being like "bu-bu-bu i made it like thix for xxx so you have to like it." and essentially making themselves the victim because everyone is so mean and cruel because they don't like this thing and how the world is such a terrible place and how they're going to quit and everyone is going to remember them, etc etc etc. because they either
A) Don't understand that it doesn't matter if you like your pattern, a vocal majority of people dislike it.
B) Have been babied their entire mapping career by their group of friends and can't handle when people dislike their map
C) They don't have the confidence in themselves to essentially tell people to fuck off.
It's really annoying actually lol because then you get all of these fucks making threads about how the modding system is broken and how we need to revamp the entire system because someone didn't like their slider or some shit like uhhhhhhhhhhhhh sorry mapping is content producing lmfao sucks to suck, make shit that people will enjoy and you'll be successful. They also don't understand that it's a learning process with a LOT of trial and error. I don't have 130+ graved maps because I'm some sort of sadist, I have it because I tried a bunch of stuff, saw what worked, what didn't work, what people saw as good and bad, and sort of latched onto the support and feedback that I got. It's sort of why I'm trying to map more difficult stuff nowadays, I got a LOT of feedback on some of my newer maps that they're essentially way too similar, way too boring, etc etc.
Like god damn the process isn't meant to make you become entitled pieces of shit. The process is so that multiple people can come together and make sure that maps are actually bettering the game, and aren't problematic and painful to play. The process is so that we can get an idea of what works, what doesn't work, and how we can make this shit better. When people are able to sort of put their emotions out of mapping and realize what mapping is, then we might see a little bit less of this entitled victimization.
You can talk about how people can be less of dicks, and that is a valid point and people really should be more mindful of how they say something, but at the end of the day, the only one that's getting mad is yourself. I've gotten beat around more than a majority of people in this game, but I'm still standing because I sort of learned that at the end of the day, if people say something is shit, you have to sort of evaluate their statement instead of just getting pissy about it. Are people agreeing with him? Do people have similar issues? Did this come up a lot during the modding process? Is there a valid reason you want to keep this? If you're saying yes to most of these, maybe your idea doesn't fucking translate the way you want it to, and you should change it to either better translate your idea or just remove it because it's not working. If they're wrong, tell them to fuck off and go on being you.
Like I'd hate to come across as a massive cunt but like honestly a lot of the most popular mappers are the way they are because they constantly are evaluating how the community likes their maps, take meaningful suggestions to heart, and essentially tell negative suggestions with no merit to fuck off. If they disagree with a suggestion but see "oh shit the majority of people really don't like this", then they evaluate why they do it, and generally edit it to either get their point better across, or just change it entirely so that people enjoy it. Granted, they are generally aware of what the community does and doesn't like so they rarely REACH that point, but still.
Idk maybe it's from 8 years of being told that my maps are fucking shit that make me not really attuned to babying mappers.
Should people be more helpful and work with mappers who are getting their foot in the door? Hell yeah. I'm personally working on getting back into that myself (It's hard when these mappers don't post in my queue or approach me
. I can only help people that seek help). I did this a lot as a BN, by ranking a lot of people's first maps and working to make modding more accessible by my mod4mod queue (which I made as a motivation for people to actually start modding, as I feel it's one of the most important parts to becoming a good mapper). But a lot of that shit comes with sort of having to tell people that what they tried sucks, or that something doesn't really translate well to the game, which is where people sort of lose their shit.What people forget about the game is that the game is about producing content for a mass audience of users that want to play their favorite songs (or farm pp, but that's another issue entirely). And people want that shit sort of done in a way that is appealing to them. That's why things like aesthetics were so important for a long time, because the belief of the community was that the way a map looked played heavily into the way the map played. It's why things like copy-paste are out of style now, because people didn't enjoy it because it wasn't fun to play. Mappers are at the will of the playing community, as much as we'd like it to be the other way around sometimes. The playing community isn't as friendly, nor does a lot of that community really have the words and vocabulary to sort of articular their sentiments in a way that a lot of modders would prefer to see it. So you get a lot of "I don't like this" "This sucks" "This doesn't play well" "this map is bad"
So what you end up getting is mappers being like "bu-bu-bu i made it like thix for xxx so you have to like it." and essentially making themselves the victim because everyone is so mean and cruel because they don't like this thing and how the world is such a terrible place and how they're going to quit and everyone is going to remember them, etc etc etc. because they either
A) Don't understand that it doesn't matter if you like your pattern, a vocal majority of people dislike it.
B) Have been babied their entire mapping career by their group of friends and can't handle when people dislike their map
C) They don't have the confidence in themselves to essentially tell people to fuck off.
It's really annoying actually lol because then you get all of these fucks making threads about how the modding system is broken and how we need to revamp the entire system because someone didn't like their slider or some shit like uhhhhhhhhhhhhh sorry mapping is content producing lmfao sucks to suck, make shit that people will enjoy and you'll be successful. They also don't understand that it's a learning process with a LOT of trial and error. I don't have 130+ graved maps because I'm some sort of sadist, I have it because I tried a bunch of stuff, saw what worked, what didn't work, what people saw as good and bad, and sort of latched onto the support and feedback that I got. It's sort of why I'm trying to map more difficult stuff nowadays, I got a LOT of feedback on some of my newer maps that they're essentially way too similar, way too boring, etc etc.
Like god damn the process isn't meant to make you become entitled pieces of shit. The process is so that multiple people can come together and make sure that maps are actually bettering the game, and aren't problematic and painful to play. The process is so that we can get an idea of what works, what doesn't work, and how we can make this shit better. When people are able to sort of put their emotions out of mapping and realize what mapping is, then we might see a little bit less of this entitled victimization.
You can talk about how people can be less of dicks, and that is a valid point and people really should be more mindful of how they say something, but at the end of the day, the only one that's getting mad is yourself. I've gotten beat around more than a majority of people in this game, but I'm still standing because I sort of learned that at the end of the day, if people say something is shit, you have to sort of evaluate their statement instead of just getting pissy about it. Are people agreeing with him? Do people have similar issues? Did this come up a lot during the modding process? Is there a valid reason you want to keep this? If you're saying yes to most of these, maybe your idea doesn't fucking translate the way you want it to, and you should change it to either better translate your idea or just remove it because it's not working. If they're wrong, tell them to fuck off and go on being you.
Like I'd hate to come across as a massive cunt but like honestly a lot of the most popular mappers are the way they are because they constantly are evaluating how the community likes their maps, take meaningful suggestions to heart, and essentially tell negative suggestions with no merit to fuck off. If they disagree with a suggestion but see "oh shit the majority of people really don't like this", then they evaluate why they do it, and generally edit it to either get their point better across, or just change it entirely so that people enjoy it. Granted, they are generally aware of what the community does and doesn't like so they rarely REACH that point, but still.
No visible results = we can't see them. All of this stuff is behind closed doors, so his ideas are definitely not unfounded. People are frustrated. There have been multiple cases of reports of multiple users, including ones not on probation, that seem to have gone unchecked. There's no feedback that our reports have been heard, so the only thing we can assume is that nothing has been done about our reports. If there has been action taken, there is absolutely little to no clarity as to the action taken and whether our reports did anything. The only time in recent memory that I've seen a report work is when Irre got kicked, and that was a hell of a lot bigger than a report on a google sheet.JBHyperion wrote:
The Probation period is intended to give Beatmap Nominators the opportunity to improve or correct their mistakes. Given that the report form has existed for less than one cycle (the typical length of a Probation phase), it's to be expected that there have not been major actions taken yet. This does not preclude action from being taken in the future where appropriate.
Where immediate action was needed to be taken from the report form, it was taken. Your claim that there have been no visible results is unfounded.
Topic Starter
CDFA wrote:
Thoughts on today's mapping scene? People need to grow the fuck up.
Idk maybe it's from 8 years of being told that my maps are fucking shit that make me not really attuned to babying mappers.
Should people be more helpful and work with mappers who are getting their foot in the door? Hell yeah. I'm personally working on getting back into that myself (It's hard when these mappers don't post in my queue or approach me
What people forget about the game is that the game is about producing content for a mass audience of users that want to play their favorite songs (or farm pp, but that's another issue entirely). And people want that shit sort of done in a way that is appealing to them. That's why things like aesthetics were so important for a long time, because the belief of the community was that the way a map looked played heavily into the way the map played. It's why things like copy-paste are out of style now, because people didn't enjoy it because it wasn't fun to play. Mappers are at the will of the playing community, as much as we'd like it to be the other way around sometimes. The playing community isn't as friendly, nor does a lot of that community really have the words and vocabulary to sort of articular their sentiments in a way that a lot of modders would prefer to see it. So you get a lot of "I don't like this" "This sucks" "This doesn't play well" "this map is bad"
So what you end up getting is mappers being like "bu-bu-bu i made it like thix for xxx so you have to like it." and essentially making themselves the victim because everyone is so mean and cruel because they don't like this thing and how the world is such a terrible place and how they're going to quit and everyone is going to remember them, etc etc etc. because they either
A) Don't understand that it doesn't matter if you like your pattern, a vocal majority of people dislike it.
B) Have been babied their entire mapping career by their group of friends and can't handle when people dislike their map
C) They don't have the confidence in themselves to essentially tell people to fuck off.
It's really annoying actually lol because then you get all of these fucks making threads about how the modding system is broken and how we need to revamp the entire system because someone didn't like their slider or some shit like uhhhhhhhhhhhhh sorry mapping is content producing lmfao sucks to suck, make shit that people will enjoy and you'll be successful. They also don't understand that it's a learning process with a LOT of trial and error. I don't have 130+ graved maps because I'm some sort of sadist, I have it because I tried a bunch of stuff, saw what worked, what didn't work, what people saw as good and bad, and sort of latched onto the support and feedback that I got. It's sort of why I'm trying to map more difficult stuff nowadays, I got a LOT of feedback on some of my newer maps that they're essentially way too similar, way too boring, etc etc.
Like god damn the process isn't meant to make you become entitled pieces of shit. The process is so that multiple people can come together and make sure that maps are actually bettering the game, and aren't problematic and painful to play. The process is so that we can get an idea of what works, what doesn't work, and how we can make this shit better. When people are able to sort of put their emotions out of mapping and realize what mapping is, then we might see a little bit less of this entitled victimization.
You can talk about how people can be less of dicks, and that is a valid point and people really should be more mindful of how they say something, but at the end of the day, the only one that's getting mad is yourself. I've gotten beat around more than a majority of people in this game, but I'm still standing because I sort of learned that at the end of the day, if people say something is shit, you have to sort of evaluate their statement instead of just getting pissy about it. Are people agreeing with him? Do people have similar issues? Did this come up a lot during the modding process? Is there a valid reason you want to keep this? If you're saying yes to most of these, maybe your idea doesn't fucking translate the way you want it to, and you should change it to either better translate your idea or just remove it because it's not working. If they're wrong, tell them to fuck off and go on being you.
Like I'd hate to come across as a massive cunt but like honestly a lot of the most popular mappers are the way they are because they constantly are evaluating how the community likes their maps, take meaningful suggestions to heart, and essentially tell negative suggestions with no merit to fuck off. If they disagree with a suggestion but see "oh shit the majority of people really don't like this", then they evaluate why they do it, and generally edit it to either get their point better across, or just change it entirely so that people enjoy it. Granted, they are generally aware of what the community does and doesn't like so they rarely REACH that point, but still.
now this is good shit. I can't actually explain this much cuz im no literal guy but this kinda sums up what I thought
Shohei Ohtani
Topic Starter
CDFA wrote:
oh man that's really awkward because I was disagreeing with your thread lmao
my point is actually to have the community to actually be really mature when it comes to mapping and modding, but I want to know the root as to why they were so triggered over a few circle placement
Am I in the wrong for not wanting to come across a combative piece of shit to everyone I interact with? You can argue people need thicker skin but if that means having negative interactions with everyone cut me out of that shit. I don't play this game to get in pointless arguments. Modding would be MUCH MUCH MUCH better of an experience if it was't so standoffish half the time.
1) People aren't out to get you. Stop overreacting to mods and making arguments/drama out of nothing.
2) Don't be an asshole in the first place so that #1 is actually possible
What would you rather react to as a mapper, a person coming to your thread and saying "garbage map and here's why" or "hey, I think there could be some imrovements." It looks like small difference but it matters. If someone reacts to the latter by blowing it up into drama, they're in the wrong. But if you jump into a thread with the former, don't get upset when you're the one to blame.
1) People aren't out to get you. Stop overreacting to mods and making arguments/drama out of nothing.
2) Don't be an asshole in the first place so that #1 is actually possible
What would you rather react to as a mapper, a person coming to your thread and saying "garbage map and here's why" or "hey, I think there could be some imrovements." It looks like small difference but it matters. If someone reacts to the latter by blowing it up into drama, they're in the wrong. But if you jump into a thread with the former, don't get upset when you're the one to blame.
Voli wrote:
couldn't have said this betterCDFA wrote:
long text
Topic Starter
Hobbes2 wrote:
Am I in the wrong for not wanting to come across a combative piece of shit to everyone I interact with? You can argue people need thicker skin but if that means having negative interactions with everyone cut me out of that shit. I don't play this game to get in pointless arguments. Modding would be MUCH MUCH MUCH better of an experience if it was't so standoffish half the time.
1) People aren't out to get you. Stop overreacting to mods and making arguments/drama out of nothing.
2) Don't be an asshole in the first place so that #1 is actually possible
What would you rather react to as a mapper, a person coming to your thread and saying "garbage map and here's why" or "hey, I think there could be some imrovements." It looks like small difference but it matters. If someone reacts to the latter by blowing it up into drama, they're in the wrong. But if you jump into a thread with the former, don't get upset when you're the one to blame.
Nemesis drama :joy: :gun:
CDFA wrote:
I've gotten beat around more than a majority of people in this game, but I'm still standing because I sort of learned that at the end of the day, if people say something is shit, you have to sort of evaluate their statement instead of just getting pissy about it. Are people agreeing with him? Do people have similar issues? Did this come up a lot during the modding process? Is there a valid reason you want to keep this? If you're saying yes to most of these, maybe your idea doesn't fucking translate the way you want it to, and you should change it to either better translate your idea or just remove it because it's not working
This is also known as the fine art of compromise and is unfortunately, an extremely rare thing to be found in the mapping+modding scene these days.
Learning to compromise without sacrificing vision is the sole thing that makes a good mapper an incredible one, honestly.
Voli wrote:
couldn't have said this betterCDFA wrote:
long text
This wall explains a lot better than I could.CDFA wrote:
Thoughts on today's mapping scene? People need to grow the fuck up.
Idk maybe it's from 8 years of being told that my maps are fucking shit that make me not really attuned to babying mappers.
Should people be more helpful and work with mappers who are getting their foot in the door? Hell yeah. I'm personally working on getting back into that myself (It's hard when these mappers don't post in my queue or approach me
What people forget about the game is that the game is about producing content for a mass audience of users that want to play their favorite songs (or farm pp, but that's another issue entirely). And people want that shit sort of done in a way that is appealing to them. That's why things like aesthetics were so important for a long time, because the belief of the community was that the way a map looked played heavily into the way the map played. It's why things like copy-paste are out of style now, because people didn't enjoy it because it wasn't fun to play. Mappers are at the will of the playing community, as much as we'd like it to be the other way around sometimes. The playing community isn't as friendly, nor does a lot of that community really have the words and vocabulary to sort of articular their sentiments in a way that a lot of modders would prefer to see it. So you get a lot of "I don't like this" "This sucks" "This doesn't play well" "this map is bad"
So what you end up getting is mappers being like "bu-bu-bu i made it like thix for xxx so you have to like it." and essentially making themselves the victim because everyone is so mean and cruel because they don't like this thing and how the world is such a terrible place and how they're going to quit and everyone is going to remember them, etc etc etc. because they either
A) Don't understand that it doesn't matter if you like your pattern, a vocal majority of people dislike it.
B) Have been babied their entire mapping career by their group of friends and can't handle when people dislike their map
C) They don't have the confidence in themselves to essentially tell people to fuck off.
It's really annoying actually lol because then you get all of these fucks making threads about how the modding system is broken and how we need to revamp the entire system because someone didn't like their slider or some shit like uhhhhhhhhhhhhh sorry mapping is content producing lmfao sucks to suck, make shit that people will enjoy and you'll be successful. They also don't understand that it's a learning process with a LOT of trial and error. I don't have 130+ graved maps because I'm some sort of sadist, I have it because I tried a bunch of stuff, saw what worked, what didn't work, what people saw as good and bad, and sort of latched onto the support and feedback that I got. It's sort of why I'm trying to map more difficult stuff nowadays, I got a LOT of feedback on some of my newer maps that they're essentially way too similar, way too boring, etc etc.
Like god damn the process isn't meant to make you become entitled pieces of shit. The process is so that multiple people can come together and make sure that maps are actually bettering the game, and aren't problematic and painful to play. The process is so that we can get an idea of what works, what doesn't work, and how we can make this shit better. When people are able to sort of put their emotions out of mapping and realize what mapping is, then we might see a little bit less of this entitled victimization.
You can talk about how people can be less of dicks, and that is a valid point and people really should be more mindful of how they say something, but at the end of the day, the only one that's getting mad is yourself. I've gotten beat around more than a majority of people in this game, but I'm still standing because I sort of learned that at the end of the day, if people say something is shit, you have to sort of evaluate their statement instead of just getting pissy about it. Are people agreeing with him? Do people have similar issues? Did this come up a lot during the modding process? Is there a valid reason you want to keep this? If you're saying yes to most of these, maybe your idea doesn't fucking translate the way you want it to, and you should change it to either better translate your idea or just remove it because it's not working. If they're wrong, tell them to fuck off and go on being you.
Like I'd hate to come across as a massive cunt but like honestly a lot of the most popular mappers are the way they are because they constantly are evaluating how the community likes their maps, take meaningful suggestions to heart, and essentially tell negative suggestions with no merit to fuck off. If they disagree with a suggestion but see "oh shit the majority of people really don't like this", then they evaluate why they do it, and generally edit it to either get their point better across, or just change it entirely so that people enjoy it. Granted, they are generally aware of what the community does and doesn't like so they rarely REACH that point, but still.
Sorry but compromise doesn't just mean that mappers should be able to get through with his visions just because it's his vision when it's objectively flawed. Think of the following scenario: Mapper A comes up with a map. Mapper B points out legit things - Mapper A doesn't fix anything pleading that it's his own vision. No compromises are being made.Ephemeral wrote:
This is also known as the fine art of compromise and is unfortunately, an extremely rare thing to be found in the mapping+modding scene these days.CDFA wrote:
I've gotten beat around more than a majority of people in this game, but I'm still standing because I sort of learned that at the end of the day, if people say something is shit, you have to sort of evaluate their statement instead of just getting pissy about it. Are people agreeing with him? Do people have similar issues? Did this come up a lot during the modding process? Is there a valid reason you want to keep this? If you're saying yes to most of these, maybe your idea doesn't fucking translate the way you want it to, and you should change it to either better translate your idea or just remove it because it's not working
Learning to compromise without sacrificing vision is the sole thing that makes a good mapper an incredible one, honestly.
No compromises being made is precisely the source of why we have so many issues with this sort of thing, yes. That is what I am trying to say.