hi

this will replace the "General" section of the current ranking criteria. it's basically the content you already know with irrelevant stuff removed, incorrect stuff adjusted, and wording modernized

see the proposal here: https://gist.github.com/pishifat/bc24779f8f4338d3c03786f22589cf82

this will be up for discussion for about 1 week, then it'll be revised if necessary

pishi wrote:

Do not edit the .osu file to modify difficulty settings, slider tick rate, or insert break times in ways that are unintended for each respective game mode. Other .osu file edits such as stack leniency, slider lengths, skinning settings, etc are acceptable.

I guess "slider lengths" is a word for "slider velocity", but I guess it would be better to name it "slider velocity" since it's what mappers use the most.

Also, I don't remember if the kiai thing was in the rule in the past, but I agree with it.

Kiai must start on an important sound in the music. Doing so on an unimportant sound causes the kiai flash to feel unrelated to the song."

Why is this a rule now? It used to be a guideline and works fairly well as a guideline. Not sure what making kiai toggling a rule would really accomplish other than just placing more (imo unnecessary) restrictions.

It's up to the mapper to interpret certain sounds as strong and weak, the ranking criteria can't put a "strength value" to any one sound that makes it eligible to be a note worth starting a kiai flash on.

I'd say remove this from rules and move it to guidelines.

Pachiru wrote:

I guess "slider lengths" is a word for "slider velocity", but I guess it would be better to name it "slider velocity" since it's what mappers use the most.

i think it mainly refers to manually snapping sliders when they pass through a red line

Mir wrote:

Kiai must start on an important sound in the music. Doing so on an unimportant sound causes the kiai flash to feel unrelated to the song."

I'd say remove this from rules and move it to guidelines.

Agree

Pachiru wrote:

pishi wrote:

Do not edit the .osu file to modify difficulty settings, slider tick rate, or insert break times in ways that are unintended for each respective game mode. Other .osu file edits such as stack leniency, slider lengths, skinning settings, etc are acceptable.

I guess "slider lengths" is a word for "slider velocity", but I guess it would be better to name it "slider velocity" since it's what mappers use the most.

No, slider length is different. Just think about what happens when you have a timing line inbetween of a slider, on those cases you have to manually edit the slider length. You can see it in action https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/700790#osu/1483523 here. However I agree that "slider velocity" is a more common word among mappers, so it should be stated there aswell as example.

Kiai must start on an important sound in the music. Doing so on an unimportant sound causes the kiai flash to feel unrelated to the song."

Strongly disagree on this one. This should be more of a guideline than a rule as people can perceive "important sound" differently (unless its your generic anime/pop song where it's usually found in choruses).

Mir wrote:

Kiai must start on an important sound in the music. Doing so on an unimportant sound causes the kiai flash to feel unrelated to the song."

Why is this a rule now? It used to be a guideline and works fairly well as a guideline. Not sure what making kiai toggling a rule would really accomplish other than just placing more (imo unnecessary) restrictions.

I agree with Mir.

Letterboxing and countdown options should be consistent between difficulties of a mapset. Additionally, widescreen support should be consistent between difficulties when a mapset contains a storyboard.

Having widescreen support as part of the description doesn't make too much sense, I think something like "If the mapset contains a storyboard, widescreen support should be consistent between difficulties" would work well as an individual guideline. Also, i'm not sure if I understand what constitutes as good reasoning for having inconsistent letterboxing across a mapset.

I noticed that the file size limitation was removed, but iirc there was some server sided cap that required renaming the difficulty name to "Marathon" to get around - not sure if that is still necessary though, but if it is there should definitely be some mention of that in the RC.

Everything else makes sense, glad to see "The song should not be too long" removed.

thing wrote:

Do not edit the .osu file to modify difficulty settings, slider tick rate, or insert break times in ways that are unintended for each respective game mode.

There's really no reason to ban tickrate from .osu editing. It doesn't cause any bugs, and has multiple uses, such as putting tick on 3/4 or 2/3 beats for specific songs, or dropping down to .5 for highbpm maps or maps with lots of 5/4 or 3/2 heavy rhythming. Multiple maps in recent memory have been qualified with edited tickrate to show support for the concept, and the only disqualification reasons provided were very superficial things or just the fact that it was listed as unrankable. Obviously most maps shouldn't do it, but it really, really should be rankable for the maps that need it.

thing wrote:

Kiai must start on an important sound in the music. Doing so on an unimportant sound causes the kiai flash to feel unrelated to the song.

This is a really weird rework of the previous "kiai should be snapped to the timeline" rule. It makes sense to require kiai be snapped to the timeline because of fountain mechanics, but "important sound" is very subjective and can lead to a lot of unneeded debates, namely how many mappers nowadays are using fountain flashes. Best to just revert back to requiring kiai be snapped to the timeline and nothing more.

thing wrote:

There must not be any obscene imagery in the background/storyboard/video content. This includes nudity, near-nudity, sexual references, violence, drug abuse, etc. Keep things PG, suitable for ages 12+. Images should be on a level that can be displayed on all-audience TV, on public signage, and of nature that does not require censoring in any country.

I understand the desire to keep this vague, but atm there is a ton of confusion in the community about what is/isn't an appropriate bg. It's reached the point that some bn's are just bubbling incredibly questionable things to see what they can get away with, while others actively refuse to bubble anything not appropriate for toddlers at the fear of getting punished by a prudish qat member. The case-by-case method being used atm has been very inconsistent. I really think this should be expanded upon further, or at least if the current rule is kept, there should be something like the metadata team set up to formally determine inappropriate content.

(also maybe formalize the "no penis sliders allowed" ruling in some way)

Kiai must start on an important sound in the music. Doing so on an unimportant sound causes the kiai flash to feel unrelated to the song."

I agree with everyone here.

As UC mentioned, the "important sound" for a kiai time is subjective. I do understand the usage of it, but it is always up to anyone's vision to what should be represented by the kiai time.

I would also prefer this as a guideline, not as a rule, because it is up to anyone at this point. (As long as it is justified)

agree with people complaining about the "kiai start on strong sound"rule, should be a guideline.

for letterbox stuff it shouldn't matter if the map has no breaks. if there are breaks the only reason to have it inconsistent would be something like different bgs on certain diffs I guess? since some of them look better with letterboxing than others

also agree with the slider tick rate things uc mentioned

besides that proposal looks nice to me

Do not edit the .osu file to modify difficulty settings, slider tick rate, or insert break times in ways that are unintended for each respective game mode. Other .osu file edits such as stack leniency, slider lengths, skinning settings, etc are acceptable.

Wouldn't this make editing the .osu for metadata rankable? For example, adding ≠ by .osu editing:


Which was manually edited in the .osu (and breaks the romanized title in the setup panel actually)

Pachiru wrote:

pishi wrote:

Do not edit the .osu file to modify difficulty settings, slider tick rate, or insert break times in ways that are unintended for each respective game mode. Other .osu file edits such as stack leniency, slider lengths, skinning settings, etc are acceptable.

I guess "slider lengths" is a word for "slider velocity", but I guess it would be better to name it "slider velocity" since it's what mappers use the most.

Also, I don't remember if the kiai thing was in the rule in the past, but I agree with it.

length has a different meaning, but they're all just examples so if people understand velocity more, it's probably better

Mir wrote:

Kiai must start on an important sound in the music. Doing so on an unimportant sound causes the kiai flash to feel unrelated to the song."

Why is this a rule now? It used to be a guideline and works fairly well as a guideline. Not sure what making kiai toggling a rule would really accomplish other than just placing more (imo unnecessary) restrictions.

It's up to the mapper to interpret certain sounds as strong and weak, the ranking criteria can't put a "strength value" to any one sound that makes it eligible to be a note worth starting a kiai flash on.

I'd say remove this from rules and move it to guidelines.

this was mostly my own bad wording. i was thinking of situations where mappers snapped kiai to random 1/16th ticks. does rewording to "Kiai must start on a sound in the music" work for you + all the other people agreeing?

Halfslashed wrote:

Letterboxing and countdown options should be consistent between difficulties of a mapset. Additionally, widescreen support should be consistent between difficulties when a mapset contains a storyboard.

Having widescreen support as part of the description doesn't make too much sense, I think something like "If the mapset contains a storyboard, widescreen support should be consistent between difficulties" would work well as an individual guideline. Also, i'm not sure if I understand what constitutes as good reasoning for having inconsistent letterboxing across a mapset.

I noticed that the file size limitation was removed, but iirc there was some server sided cap that required renaming the difficulty name to "Marathon" to get around - not sure if that is still necessary though, but if it is there should definitely be some mention of that in the RC.

-realized widescreen support is in the sb part of the rc so definitely deserves removal
-dont think the marathon filesize thing needs to be mentioned on the rc since like... it's not related to ranking maps

UndeadCapulet wrote:

thing wrote:

Do not edit the .osu file to modify difficulty settings, slider tick rate, or insert break times in ways that are unintended for each respective game mode.

There's really no reason to ban tickrate from .osu editing. It doesn't cause any bugs, and has multiple uses, such as putting tick on 3/4 or 2/3 beats for specific songs, or dropping down to .5 for highbpm maps or maps with lots of 5/4 or 3/2 heavy rhythming. Multiple maps in recent memory have been qualified with edited tickrate to show support for the concept, and the only disqualification reasons provided were very superficial things or just the fact that it was listed as unrankable. Obviously most maps shouldn't do it, but it really, really should be rankable for the maps that need it.

thing wrote:

There must not be any obscene imagery in the background/storyboard/video content. This includes nudity, near-nudity, sexual references, violence, drug abuse, etc. Keep things PG, suitable for ages 12+. Images should be on a level that can be displayed on all-audience TV, on public signage, and of nature that does not require censoring in any country.

I understand the desire to keep this vague, but atm there is a ton of confusion in the community about what is/isn't an appropriate bg. It's reached the point that some bn's are just bubbling incredibly questionable things to see what they can get away with, while others actively refuse to bubble anything not appropriate for toddlers at the fear of getting punished by a prudish qat member. The case-by-case method being used atm has been very inconsistent. I really think this should be expanded upon further, or at least if the current rule is kept, there should be something like the metadata team set up to formally determine inappropriate content.

(also maybe formalize the "no penis sliders allowed" ruling in some way)

-moved tickrate thing to guidelines
-don't think it's possible to draw a solid line for obscene imagery since each image varies too much. if you can find a clear enough way to explain waht's good and what's not, we'd probably make it into something like the new nsfw song content rules guide

Lasse wrote:

for letterbox stuff it shouldn't matter if the map has no breaks. if there are breaks the only reason to have it inconsistent would be something like different bgs on certain diffs I guess? since some of them look better with letterboxing than others

that would be a reason to break the guidelines yeah. idk what else is trying to be said here

---

this will be up for a while longer to let people doublecheck changes/suggest new things

pishi wrote:

does rewording to "Kiai must start on a sound in the music" work for you + all the other people agreeing?

not rly, just bc we've yet to rly see a good use for kiai during silence doesn't mean it'll never exist, just have it be snapped to the timeline like i said before

UndeadCapulet wrote:

pishi wrote:

does rewording to "Kiai must start on a sound in the music" work for you + all the other people agreeing?

not rly, just bc we've yet to rly see a good use for kiai during silence doesn't mean it'll never exist, just have it be snapped to the timeline like i said before

Agree here

UndeadCapulet wrote:

pishi wrote:

does rewording to "Kiai must start on a sound in the music" work for you + all the other people agreeing?

not rly, just bc we've yet to rly see a good use for kiai during silence doesn't mean it'll never exist, just have it be snapped to the timeline like i said before

same tbh.. maybe

"Kiai toggles should emphasize a specific aspect of the song."

or something along those lines

cuz that can imply silence, a kiai start, blah blah leaves a lot of wiggle room

also move to guidelines?

thing wrote:

Do not edit the .osu file to modify difficulty settings or insert break times in ways that are unintended for each respective game mode. Other .osu file edits such as stack leniency, slider velocity, skinning settings, etc are acceptable.

just realized current wording has the same loophole that current rc does: you don't need to edit .osu to achieve unintended diffsettings. for example, to achieve cs10 in-editor, you can switch the map to mania mode, set keycount to 9, enable co-op mode, then switch back to all modes

Changes look good. Glad the tick rate thing was finally addressed.

Are we now not requiring backgrounds in mapsets? I'd like to clarify before I suggest bringing that rule back xp


I agree with Lasse on Letterboxing that it can sometimes be inconsistent across diffs when we consider different backgrounds. I'm glad 'countdowns must remain consistent across diffs' is a guideline, as the countdown can be an alternative to starting maps with a slider to avoid greens.

The rule on 'obscene imagery' in backgrounds is still vague. Is there going to be a link to what exactly is 'obscene' like the 'Song Content Rules'?

That's all I have for now.

Bubblun wrote:

Are we now not requiring backgrounds in mapsets? I'd like to clarify before I suggest bringing that rule back xp

^ Why seems like the background rule was removed in the proposal?

it got moved to the bg/video section

UndeadCapulet wrote:

it got moved to the bg/video section

Thanks UC xp

is it possible to mention time signatures extraneous to the editor (2/4, 13/4, etc) to the .osu editing line since its becoming fairly common in the .osu editing clause?

moved kiai thing to guidelines

time signatures .osu editing is already mentioned in its respective rule of the timing rc, so dont think it's necessary here

applied in https://github.com/ppy/osu-wiki/pull/1164 unless i cant type