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Keishi Yonao - Holocaust Arrange

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Topic Starter
Trauma-
This beatmap was submitted using in-game submission on Montag, 14. Mai 2012 at 02:52:12

Artist: Keishi Yonao
Title: Holocaust (Arrange)
Source: Dies Irae
Tags: Light VN Visual Novel Eroge Streams OST
BPM: 175
Filesize: 4306kb
Play Time: 02:09
Difficulties Available:
  1. Assiah (1,67 stars, 101 notes)
  2. Atziluth (5 stars, 425 notes)
  3. Briah (4,72 stars, 236 notes)
  4. inaba's Taiko (4,83 stars, 819 notes)
  5. Trauma (4,98 stars, 638 notes)
  6. Yetzirah (3,34 stars, 146 notes)
Download: Keishi Yonao - Holocaust (Arrange)
Information: Scores/Beatmap Listing
---------------
Assiah - 100% | Hitsounds: Done
Yetzirah - 100% | Hitsounds: Done
Briah - 100% | Hitsounds: Done
Atziluth - 100% | Hitsounds: Done
Trauma - 100% | Hitsounds: Done
Taiko by inaba-tan

I don't know why the hardest diff has less stars...it used to have 5.00 but after i highered OD star rating became lower o.o and yess some hitsounds are a bit experimental...
Topic Starter
Trauma-
-
-Napoleon-
This map it's cool! :D
TicClick
Wow, I am the first modder.

General
  1. I think you need an Easy diff
  2. 00:19:926 — make this green line red (uninherited) because rhythm goes 2/1 forward and it's the time where is the strong beat ("downbeat")
Gratias Dei
  1. 00:25:412 (1) - too complicated, I suggest to remove red joints
  2. 01:01:755 — start mapping from this moment
  3. 01:20:269 (1) - 1 grid left?
  4. 01:33:126 (1) - you better start it 1/2 earlier
  5. 01:54:212 (4) - stack it with 01:51:812 (2)?
  6. 02:08:269 (2) - better use a note here and spinner after it (1/4 later)
  7. Also, what if you silence last spinner's end or add whistle to it and lower volume?
Ira Dei
  1. 00:16:498 (1) - start spinner 1/4 after it?
  2. 00:28:155 (1) - unbalanced, move its beginning farther from note
  3. 00:30:898 (1) - I don't think you need this delay before break: http://puu.sh/dSCR
  4. 00:41:869 (1) - huh? Maybe, you better put it near the slider, not under it
  5. 00:44:269 (1,2,3) - spacing change is confusing here
  6. The same note about spinners in the end as on previous diff
Trauma
  1. 00:07:926 (9,10,11,12) - maybe you should use constant spacing in stream
  2. 00:08:955 (9) - NC (new combo)
  3. 00:11:698 (9) - ^
  4. 00:13:070 (9) - ^
  5. 00:14:784 (1,1) - remove NC
  6. 00:16:498 (1) - start spinner 1/4 after it
  7. 00:20:612 (9) - NC. In short, put nc in streams on every 2nd white tick
  8. 00:25:412 (3) - NC
  9. 01:15:641 (3) - stack it better
  10. 01:54:298 (4) and so on — why did you increase spacing on streams so much? I would use 0.8x
    Hell of a diff, hah
Requiem Aeternam
  1. 00:16:498 (1) - the same about spinner
  2. 01:00:384 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - hey, don't use the same spacing as with normal beats. It tricks people :(
  3. 01:07:326 (9) - move it closer to slider
  4. 01:09:984 (6) - the same. Small jumps are bad here, player should see that it's 1/4
  5. 01:12:041 — end kiai here to avoid inconsistency with other diffs
  6. 01:42:041 (1) - if you really wanna keep this repeating slider, it should be started from 01:41:784 where piano starts
Too noisy for me :(
Topic Starter
Trauma-
hi, thanks for your mod, unfortunately I feel to tired to answer every suggestion but I changed most on the easy diffs, about the hardest: I don't want to set so many NCs at streams on the map.
I just have to consider this spinner thing at the beginning, on one hand i don't want to long spinners on the other they fit.

2 Kds for you :D
inaba-tan
may i make taiko diff ?
Topic Starter
Trauma-
sorry, at the moment i don't want a guest diff on this mapset but if i change my mind i will inform you ;)
inaba-tan
oh
i see~
p3n
my part as M4M, I'll focus on playability and overall mapping style here as technically you seem to be ok mostly.

[General]
You need a difficulty with less than 3 stars to fulfill the ranking criteria. I suggest changing [Gratias Dei] to get below 3 stars which should be no big deal. If you don't want that (read explanation for the required SV change below), you should map an additional [Easy].

You tend to combo spam a lot. I wont tell you to fix this in detail but be prepared for the shitload of completely useless "remove NC, add NC" mods...

Your hitsound usage is very good. I'm also a fan of custom slider ticks and you use them well. However the overall volume of your hitsounds (~90%+) is very noisy. Check your settings in the Audio Options in osu!. If you set the "Effects Volume" lower than the "Music" volume than there's your problem. Otherwise turn the hitsounds down "a bit". I wont recommend any %...just make them a bit less obtrusive.


[Gratias Dei]
First of all the SV of 1,20 combined with the high BPM seems a bit too high for an easy/beginners map. I recommend using SV 0,90 here and use 0,9x fixed spacing (or keep the shoddy 0,85x if you really want...). You could lower AR by 1 should you still get 3,00 stars but I think it is not really necessary if you follow some simple rules: No jumps, no 1/2 streams, no kicksliders. Remember this should be a diff enjoyable for someone who never played osu! or other rhythm games before.

00:38:097 (2,3,1,2) - avoid 1/2 notes in your easiest diff. You can however use 1/2 sliders (with or without 1x repeat)
00:40:497 (1,2,3) - ^
00:42:383 (1,2,3,4,5) - ^
00:45:983 (3) - the length of this slider makes it a kickslider and you should avoid using those in your easiest diff. 1x repeat is ok since it is predictable for beginners but don't spam your map with 1/2 repeat sliders.
00:45:983 (3,1,2,3) - can be considered a 1/2 stream and is therefore not suitable for a beginners diff
01:27:811 (3) - kickslider, avoid here
01:32:954 (1) - this is perfectly fine for easy diffs
01:41:526 (7) - kickslider, avoid here
01:56:268 (2,3) - this is tough but you could keep it in an easy diff
02:06:040 (1,1,1,1) - 1/2 slider spam is not ok for beginners diffs, though it fits perfectly and I couldn't think of anything else here. I suggest keeping it as is but without the overlaps to increase readability.

You get the idea of what to change - it is not that much work but the change of the SV (HIGHLY recommended) will require you to essentially re-arrange every spacing and every slider. You should use "recalculate slider lengths" in the timing menu after the SV change and then adjust the ending points/curves of the sliders while fixing the spacing for every note. This, again highly recommended, change will make this an actual "easy" diff. Right now it is a really good "normal" with nothing that .


[Ira Dei]
00:08:269 (1) - 2x repeat sliders are anoying as hell. They mess up playability of your map. Those 1/2 sliders are too short to make the 2x repeats readable. It is not a matter of "too hard" but just...plays horrible. I suggest using 2 1/2 sliders or anything that is less unexpected.
00:09:641 (1,2) - ^
00:21:126 (4) - plays weird and sliding over the downbeat is bad style that throws the player off the beat. The red tick on 00:21:126 should be mapped just like the notes before and starting at 00:21:297 (white tick) you can follow the melody with a plain slider (add custom tick-hitsounds): http://puu.sh/elR0
00:44:268 (1,2,3) - weird anti-jump. I suggest using normal spacing here...nothing in the song indicates this one.
00:46:668 (4,5) - this is a pretty good use of kicksliders as the player can hear and predict the length of those. nice.
00:50:954 (6,7) - don't use the slider ending on the downbeat (bif white tick). maybe switch (6) and (7) to have the player press the downbeat or just use circles instead of the slider. works either way
00:58:325 (1,2,3) - those 2x repat slider again play horrible here. I suggest removing the last repeat and fill in circles between (1) & (2) and (2) & (3): http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/226666 you could just stack them to meet the start/end of the 1x repeat sliders
01:00:297 (1) - If you apply the suggestion above move the spinner 1/4 back to start on the earlier red tick
01:27:811 (1,2) - not as readable as the ones @00:46:668 but I guess they are still ok. Feels spammy though...
01:32:268 (4) - ^
01:33:897 (2) - seems like the only 1/4 "stream" in the whole map. unexpected. but not "wrong". just feels a bit lost to me.

Overall well made hard diff. Only the 2x repeats are annoying in some parts.


[Requiem Aeternam]
The only thing that prevents this from beeing just perfect in term of playability is those damn 2x repeat sliders again. They almost never play good nor do they fit. It is completely up to you to change them into 1x repeats and use more of them or use 3x repeat sliders and therefore less. Either way would work I guess.

01:00:383 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - If this speed up is intended: great thing. Really fits imo.

Nothing much here except the combo spam and noisy hitsounds but I'll leave that to the other modders...they love NC+hitsound mods :|


[Trauma]
Just as I mentioned on IRC: Too many points for an (easy/boring) 1/4-spam-stream-map. You could get this approved but I highly doubt the rankability. Mentioning "for approval" for this diff only should be the way to go. You should ask any MAT/BAT directly if he/she thinks this is still a rankable score for a < 2 min map before doing so.




There is still some work to be done in the playability department. However, I had quite some fun playing the [Requiem Aeternam] diff. Because of that the is well deserved. Improve on some awkward beat placements and this will be great!
Reiji-RJ
Hello...

[General]

  1. The 2nd Kiai in [Requiem Aeternam] starts earlier, set it to 01:12:040 - as in other diffs.
  2. I suggest you to make Easy diff for better diff spread. Try to make a rhythm based on upbeats (claps rhytm), so you'll have a pretty easy diff with long 2/1 sliders. Also you might want set lower Slider Velocity, like 1.0 or so. And use AR 4 OD 3 HP Drain (2/3).
  3. Your topic is named Keishi Yonao - Holocaust Arrange, rename it to Keishi Yonao - Holocaust (Arrange) (You can do it when you will be submitting beatmap).
[Gratias Dei]

If you're willing to make an easier diff, then set +1(+2) to HP drain. AR -1.
  1. 00:13:755 (1,1,1) - don't use combo spam D:
  2. 00:28:154 (1) - you missed finish in the end
  3. 01:40:840 (6) - nc
  4. 01:54:554 (5) - finish to the beginning
  5. 02:02:783 (1) - finish to the beginning and reverse
  6. 02:06:040 (1,1,1,1) - don't combospam, remove nc
  7. 02:08:268 (2) - silence the sliderbody for 30% volume, the end of the slider for 20%
[Ira Dei]

OD +1(2), AR -1, HP +2
  1. 00:03:983 (x) - add a note?
  2. 00:06:726 (x) - ^
  3. 00:08:955 (1) - remove nc
  4. 00:14:784 (1,1,1,1) - >:C
  5. 00:16:584 (x) - start spinner here and remove finish, to emphasise 00:19:926 (1) -
  6. 00:27:811 (1) - remove nc
  7. 00:30:211 (1) - ^
  8. 00:41:183 (2,1) - you can't hide slider start point under the previous slider, fix it.
  9. 01:00:383 (3,1) - spacing
  10. 01:05:868 (1) - this slider touches HP bar, so stack it with 01:05:011 (2) -
  11. 01:05:868 (1) - remove nc
  12. 01:10:668 (2,1) - maybe not stack? Looks.. ugly..
  13. 01:11:354 (1) - remove nc
  14. 01:17:868 (1,1,1) - >:O
  15. 01:22:325 (3) - some grids down
  16. 01:23:697 (2) - finish
  17. 01:26:440 (2) - ^
  18. 01:37:411 (2) - ugly ><
  19. 01:51:897 (x) - start spinner here
  20. 01:59:868 (3) - remove finish
  21. 02:08:268 (2) - silence the sliderbody for 30% volume, the end of the slider for 20%
[Requiem Aeternam]

p3n wrote:

[Requiem Aeternam]
Nothing much here except the combo spam and noisy hitsounds but I'll leave that to the other modders...they love NC+hitsound mods :|
Here it is:

If you reduced AR in hard, reduce here by 1 as well. That'd make better diff spread
  1. You used more than 3 slider speeds here (1,0x, 1,10x, 1,50x, 0,50x). It's unrankable. Remove 1,10x?
  2. 00:11:012 (2) - nc
  3. 00:13:755 (1,1,1,1,1,1) - >:C
  4. 00:16:584 (х) - start spinner here and remove finish
  5. 00:23:868 (1) - remove nc?
  6. 00:29:526 (2) - nc
  7. 00:30:211 (1) - remove nc
  8. 00:37:754 (3) - remove clap from the end
  9. 00:37:068 (1,2) - this objects cannot be seen under the hitbursts. Here is screenshot:
  10. 00:47:354 (2) - nc?
  11. 00:51:468 (3) - ^
  12. 01:01:068 (9) - nc
  13. 01:01:925 (1) - remove nc
  14. 01:06:554 (7) - nc
  15. 01:09:297 (5) - ^
  16. 01:17:011 (1) - Unsnapped sliderend
  17. 01:27:126 (3) - nc
  18. 01:27:640 (6) - ^ triangles~
  19. 01:28:154 (3) - and here
  20. 01:52:154 (1) - change to a circle and start 01:52:497 (2) - from 01:52:326
  21. 01:54:554 (6) - finish
  22. 01:58:668 (1) - ^
  23. 02:08:268 (2) - same as in other diffs
[Trauma]

Check out your new combos.
  1. 00:14:441 (1,1,1,1,1) - :|
  2. 00:16:584 (x) - start spinner here, remove fiinish, blah-blah
  3. 00:38:440 (19,20) - don't stack them
  4. 00:41:183 (3) - this slider starts under the sliderbody, move it away
  5. 01:01:068 (9) - nc
  6. 01:26:440 (7) - this slider starts under the sliderbody, move it away
  7. 01:27:983 (2,3) - it can be hardly seen under the hitbursts..
  8. 01:33:297 (1) - this slider starts under the sliderbody, move it away
  9. 01:53:183 (1) - remove all hitsounds and add soft-finish?
  10. 01:54:554 (7) - finish
  11. 01:55:926 (1) - ^
  12. 01:57:297 (5) - ^
  13. 02:02:097 (3) - bad placement
  14. 02:08:268 (1) - as in other diffs
Good job!
IceBeam
hi,don't kd
just an additional comment to Reiji's post:

you REALLY SHOULD map an easy diff,because:
1) your diff spread is N I I I,so the E is missing
2) you use 1/2 rhytm for 170+ bpm song
3) you use lots of kick-sliders (1/2 sliders) which are unacceptable for the easiest diff
4) you have all possibilities to make a really easy map,by lowering settings/SV/using easier rhytm based on claps (as Reiji suggested)

so,better not to delay the ranking process,because I highly doubt that any bat will let it pass with this mapset
it's easier to make it now to prevent further problems and get more mods on it

good luck
Mercurial
Dat diff names.

Orz.
Topic Starter
Trauma-
p3n
As discussed on IRC, changed most on Ira Dei but want to keep the difficulty at Gratias Dei, Thanks for the mod

Reiji-RJ

Reiji-RJ wrote:

Hello...

[General]

  1. The 2nd Kiai in [Requiem Aeternam] starts earlier, set it to 01:12:040 - as in other diffs.| uh...all kiai times start at 1:12:068 ?
  2. I suggest you to make Easy diff for better diff spread. Try to make a rhythm based on upbeats (claps rhytm), so you'll have a pretty easy diff with long 2/1 sliders. Also you might want set lower Slider Velocity, like 1.0 or so. And use AR 4 OD 3 HP Drain (2/3). | I guess I'll map one...orz...
  3. Your topic is named Keishi Yonao - Holocaust Arrange, rename it to Keishi Yonao - Holocaust (Arrange) (You can do it when you will be submitting beatmap).
Sure.

[Gratias Dei]

If you're willing to make an easier diff, then set +1(+2) to HP drain. AR -1. | Well, I set HP drain + 1
  1. 00:13:755 (1,1,1) - don't use combo spam D: | honestly, what's wrong about combo spam ? D:...i just use them for coop mode which i play with friends sometimes
  2. 00:28:154 (1) - you missed finish in the end |lol i remember when i wanted to fix that and forgot it orz...
  3. 01:40:840 (6) - nc | Done
  4. 01:54:554 (5) - finish to the beginning | Done
  5. 02:02:783 (1) - finish to the beginning and reverse
  6. 02:06:040 (1,1,1,1) - don't combospam, remove nc | Whyy ? D:
  7. 02:08:268 (2) - silence the sliderbody for 30% volume, the end of the slider for 20%
[Ira Dei]

OD +1(2), AR -1, HP +2 |Ugh...not easy to decide as KuraiPettan suggested to lower HP drain...
  1. 00:03:983 (x) - add a note?
  2. 00:06:726 (x) - ^ | mmhno I want the beginning to be a bit calm
  3. 00:08:955 (1) - remove nc | Done
  4. 00:14:784 (1,1,1,1) - >:C | *whistle* o.o
  5. 00:16:584 (x) - start spinner here and remove finish, to emphasise 00:19:926 (1) - Ok, but i want to keep finish it somehow fits better imo.
  6. 00:27:811 (1) - remove nc |changed the combos here a bit
  7. 00:30:211 (1) - ^ | no, thanks
  8. 00:41:183 (2,1) - you can't hide slider start point under the previous slider, fix it.
  9. 01:00:383 (3,1) - spacing | this one is on purpose
  10. 01:05:868 (1) - this slider touches HP bar, so stack it with 01:05:011 (2) - | don't want to stack them but it doesn't touch hp bar...i still moved it by some pixels :P http://puu.sh/fGij
  11. 01:05:868 (1) - remove nc |changed the combos a bit including nc
  12. 01:10:668 (2,1) - maybe not stack? Looks.. ugly.. changed it
  13. 01:11:354 (1) - remove nc moved it 1:11:183 because of new pattern
  14. 01:17:868 (1,1,1) - >:O | mh i want to keep that :/
  15. 01:22:325 (3) - some grids down i don't see a reason to move it down tbh.
  16. 01:23:697 (2) - finish | don't want to "overfinish" that part
  17. 01:26:440 (2) - ^| added
  18. 01:37:411 (2) - ugly >< | well, after the next slider "completes" teh shape it doesn't look that ugly anymore D: I just thought it fits good to the previous slider
  19. 01:51:897 (x) - start spinner here | ok
  20. 01:59:868 (3) - remove finish
  21. 02:08:268 (2) - silence the sliderbody for 30% volume, the end of the slider for 20%
[Requiem Aeternam]

p3n wrote:

[Requiem Aeternam]
Nothing much here except the combo spam and noisy hitsounds but I'll leave that to the other modders...they love NC+hitsound mods :|
Here it is:

If you reduced AR in hard, reduce here by 1 as well. That'd make better diff spread
  1. You used more than 3 slider speeds here (1,0x, 1,10x, 1,50x, 0,50x). It's unrankable. Remove 1,10x? |ugh...1.10 would be almsot the whole map...but it shouldn't be a big problem to delete one of the other speeds if necessary
  2. 00:11:012 (2) - nc | Done
  3. 00:13:755 (1,1,1,1,1,1) - >:C
  4. 00:16:584 (х) - start spinner here and remove finish |Done
  5. 00:23:868 (1) - remove nc? | Done
  6. 00:29:526 (2) - nc | Done
  7. 00:30:211 (1) - remove nc | Done
  8. 00:37:754 (3) - remove clap from the end | Done
  9. 00:37:068 (1,2) - this objects cannot be seen under the hitbursts. Here is screenshot:
    actually its very obvious in which order you have to play them :/
  10. 00:47:354 (2) - nc? | oh..sure
  11. 00:51:468 (3) - ^ | ^
  12. 01:01:068 (9) - nc | Done
  13. 01:01:925 (1) - remove nc | Done
  14. 01:06:554 (7) - nc | I changed combos on this section a bit here and want the nc on the next note
  15. 01:09:297 (5) - ^ | Done
  16. 01:17:011 (1) - Unsnapped sliderend | Fixed
  17. 01:27:126 (3) - nc
  18. 01:27:640 (6) - ^ triangles~
  19. 01:28:154 (3) - and here | Done on all 3
  20. 01:52:154 (1) - change to a circle and start 01:52:497 (2) - from 01:52:326 | no sorry but i love this pattern :D
  21. 01:54:554 (6) - finish
  22. 01:58:668 (1) - ^
  23. 02:08:268 (2) - same as in other diffs
[Trauma]

Check out your new combos.
  1. 00:14:441 (1,1,1,1,1) - :| err...
  2. 00:16:584 (x) - start spinner here, remove fiinish, blah-blah |...
  3. 00:38:440 (19,20) - don't stack them | changed
  4. 00:41:183 (3) - this slider starts under the sliderbody, move it away | Done
  5. 01:01:068 (9) - nc | added
  6. 01:26:440 (7) - this slider starts under the sliderbody, move it away | want to keep that one :/
  7. 01:27:983 (2,3) - it can be hardly seen under the hitbursts.. | mmh, obvious how to play...
  8. 01:33:297 (1) - this slider starts under the sliderbody, move it away | I really like this shape so no thanks :/
  9. 01:53:183 (1) - remove all hitsounds and add soft-finish? | added normal finish and removed the snare
  10. 01:54:554 (7) - finish
  11. 01:55:926 (1) - ^
  12. 01:57:297 (5) - ^
  13. 02:02:097 (3) - bad placement | changed
  14. 02:08:268 (1) - as in other diffs
Good job!
About the hitsound suggestion at the end, i wanted to change the hitsounds "a bit" anyway so i don't know yet.
Same with the Diff. Settings, I will take a look at them later.

Thanks for the mod \o/
DoKito
IRC Mod (:
Furawa
good luck for your map >w<
Topic Starter
Trauma-
thanks =w=
inaba-tan
Backfire
inaba's taiko -
00:02:783 -00:03:812 - 00:05:184 - 00:05:526 - and 00:06:555 - should all be considered for finishes.
00:14:441 (2,3,4,5,1) - so should these
00:16:669 - start spinner and end on 00:19:584 -
00:52:754 - delete and thennnnn make all the notes after where it goes DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN finishes then repeat for the part at 01:33:989
01:42:211 - Follow the piano and map this part out please :(
02:05:440 - delete and make all notes after big don and last note big kat. :3

Suggestions of course.
inaba-tan
Kashim
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