[Proposal] Clarification on Song Content Rules

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Topic Starter
DNR
When previously talking about stuff, the general agreement in the QAT was "lmao we're going to impletement rules just from this point on instead of judging past maps off of current rules"

Also, I think that while the rules SEEM strict, it kind of makes sense. I think just HAVING that written up would be MONUMENTALLY more helpful. Especially with having EXCESSIVE language put on there.

In an IDEAL sense it would be nice to sort of have a guideline for what's considered excessive. I'm not saying "you're allowed 10 curse words", but maybe some examples for the BN / QAT to have about what's good or not good.

For instance, would THIS be considered innapropriate?: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/150639 . From what I've asked some other BNs, they've said it's fine, even though it has a few curses and implications of sexual activity.

But so far I like it. That's sort of my thing, I'm fine with regulation and such, I just hate hate HATE this Loctav-era of thinking of "oh it's 'common sense' so it'll just be an unwritten rule but we're going to enforce it like it's a major rule but only sometimes", so I wanna make sure that if it's something that can get my map deleted and my account silenced / restricted, that it's there in plain text.
Myxo

CDFA wrote:

For instance, would THIS be considered innapropriate?: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/150639 . From what I've asked some other BNs, they've said it's fine, even though it has a few curses and implications of sexual activity.
did you really misspell "Kanye West" i think songs like these should be fine. it's what i mentioned before, the curses are just a stylistic tool and nobody really takes this seriously. also shit like this is on the radio and on tv anyway so what do we expect
Nitrous

Myxomatosis wrote:

CDFA wrote:

For instance, would THIS be considered innapropriate?: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/150639 . From what I've asked some other BNs, they've said it's fine, even though it has a few curses and implications of sexual activity.
did you really misspell "Kanye West" i think songs like these should be fine. it's what i mentioned before, the curses are just a stylistic tool and nobody really takes this seriously. also shit like this is on the radio and on tv anyway so what do we expect
There are concerned people, specially those that are of parental age (and believe me there are those who still play this game). Its unethical to let an adolescent listen to obscene language, they might blame this game because of such things. My suggestion would be to add by just further emphasizing warnings (map descriptions are often ignored) such as adding +18 or nsfw tags and filter them out in beatmap searching would be better.
Topic Starter
DNR

Myxomatosis wrote:

CDFA wrote:

For instance, would THIS be considered innapropriate?: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/150639 . From what I've asked some other BNs, they've said it's fine, even though it has a few curses and implications of sexual activity.
did you really misspell "Kanye West" i think songs like these should be fine. it's what i mentioned before, the curses are just a stylistic tool and nobody really takes this seriously. also shit like this is on the radio and on tv anyway so what do we expect
well if you want to get super technical, American radio edits will blur out any curse words or slurs that are used. So it's important to also make that distinction, are we allowing SOME curse words, or are we just censoring EVERYTHING (which, seeing as we can still curse on the forum and in-game, I think we're more inclined to go with the first)

Nitrous wrote:

There are concerned people, specially those that are of parental age (and believe me there are those who still play this game). Its unethical to let an adolescent listen to obscene language, they might blame this game because of such things. My suggestion would be to add by just further emphasizing warnings (map descriptions are often ignored) such as adding +18 or nsfw tags and filter them out in beatmap searching would be better.
I actually made a suggestion to have an in-game notation of NSFW stuff put in place before, or having the ability to filter maps that are marked as NSFW. peppy, in the way that he sometimes does when he doesn't wanna do stuff, was like "okay get me a list and I'll do it." So me and some other guys provided a list to him. And he's like "a"

However at this point I feel that making a guideline on the actual ranking criteria would be more effective than putting on a tag AFTER the fact.
Topic Starter
DNR
So we need to fucking talk about this.

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/716630

Apparently this shit is a fine pass even though we just spend all of this fucking time talking about "oh yeah content rules oh yeah we gotta be safe for the kids" like are you fucking serious.

This is a huge fuck you to me as well as others in the community who have been screwed over by these sorts of rules as well as these vague guidelines as to what is appropriate and inappropriate.

I'd very much like to see the QAT justify this being allowed to get a fair pass while maps that I've submitted put me on the verge of getting banned from the game.

THIS is why I decide to put so much god damned effort into this kind of shit. THIS kind of shit, so that I don't have to constantly hope "oh god is this QAT going to hate my map or will they love it", it'll be a simple "this is what makes your map unrankable." This subjective "oh we'll decide on it" shit didn't work when Loctav was around, and it's obvious that it's not working now.

So let's see this get justified.
x86
There's already a loved version from more than a year ago https://osu.ppy.sh/s/288162
Canderos
Don't forget https://osu.ppy.sh/s/328597.

EDIT: Also, does it matter less if the songs aren't in English? Pensamento and Chuj Kurwa are fairly explicit but nobody seems to even bring them up in conversations like these, even though they are popular.
Ephemeral
I think we've regressed rather significantly on the rules surrounding this particular thing.

It is indeed, an established community rule that any content involved with the game should be appropriate for 'all-ages' - that particular term has been peddled around with pretty much universal usage in the past few years as some sort of catchall for all this stuff.

However, I think there is some artistic merit in allowing songs or tracks with explicit material and content (within reason, however) to be submitted and ranked as per other beatmaps, except with some sort of designation made abundantly obvious in their description or listing somehow.

Heavily explicit tracks or songs that deal intensely and intimately with themes that just simply are not appropriate for osu! (such as heavy drug use, suicide, murder, etc) will never fly, but I am not against amending the rules regarding beatmap submission to allow maps with explicit audio content to be considered for ranking.

An exclusion on a case-by-case basis to allow beatmap submission for tracks deemed to be explicit but not excessively so with a designator (18+ or a content warning in the description, as how it used to work) would be the most elegant solution to this issue, I think. The question of "who determines what is too explicit" or not is a big one, as people apparently have very different attitudes in this regard.

MTC is okay, though should arguably be tagged. Most XXXTentacion tracks are probably not okay even when tagged. Most, not all.

Do note, this is just my personal opinion on the matter. I've always been one of the more lax members of the team when it comes towards content policing.
x86
Idk if you consider xxxtentacion to be artistically merited enough but I can really relate to some of his less vulgar songs so I think they should be kept
Tired of feelin' like I'm trapped in my damn mind
Tired of feelin' like I'm wrapped in a damn lie
Tired of feelin' like my life is a damn game
Nigga really wanna die in the nighttime
https://genius.com/Xxxtentacion-everybo ... res-lyrics
Anemic Witch
On the one hand maps with explicit lyrics and very questionable backgrounds are going ranked and on the other people are getting restricted for mapping what they like. Why don't you just implement big-red-button that warn people about song containing some 18+ content?
Rougoku
First and foremost, I want to note that I'm not by any mean "someone", barely knows any mapper and have the perspective of mostly being a player.

So yeah, I don't really understand how "we've regressed". 1 year ago, rules were supposed to be revamped in order to be clearer, due to the whole El Chivi's song being almost ranked and having extreme profanity in it. They never were. (and the map is still graveyarded, so downloadable)

I have countless examples of maps dealing "intensely" with non-appropriate themes that you quoted being ranked, at any point of time ranging from 2009 to 2017. So I don't see how we could have "regressed", when there never were any rules available for the public to begin with.

Such a subject cannot be enforced or anything, it is too vague, too abstract. There is no one that is fit to discuss which music has "artistic merit" or not. There is too much hurdles preventing that.

For instance, there is the fact that if you want to pinpoint which song is unsafe for 'all-ages', you would need a polyglot or a team of people speaking every single language, as the distinction between being on the grey area and explicitely being violent cannot be caught using a translator (problem of context for each word, for the general song, etc. there are parody songs ranked that are clearly parodical for people speaking the language, non-offensive for people that cannot speak it, but someone learning the language could be confused and think that it's clearly offensive). On the other hand, it is not impossible to write an offensive song without any curse for and with implied stuff, that could be caught only by fluent speakers.

Then, the number of "Pending" or "Graveyarded" maps is too high, nobody can listen to every single one to decide if the song is or isn't offensive. Even the most notorious artists when it comes to being extremely crude and/or violent have done some pretty chill songs, and someone gave you an example on reddit IIRC. And I say that as someone who hates this artist, from the bottom of my heart.

Such hurdles are impossible to overcome, and it's why, IMO, I think that this whole topic is bogus. When it comes to unranked maps, nobody should be silenced, restricted, or even have their maps removed for being in the grey area, as far as the "grey area" can stretch, because under no system it could be fair for all users.

The number of maps passing through the ranked section, however, is drastically lower, and the debate should be up when a bubble or some sort of intense exposure is made (and not before, and not after, as it happened in the past). But even then, a map is bound to slip by at any moment, and it's not really severe, because if the common sense decided that the song weren't offensive enough to trigger a backlash, then it's fine, because it is not likely to shock most users. The number of unranked map is so high, you won't find haphazardly an offensive song.

TL;DR : let people submit whatever they want if it's in the grey area, if the map don't use, and I quote SharpII "excessive profanity/terroristic propaganda/illegal content/screamers". When the map is heading for ranked, then it would be possible to decline the map from there as
CXu
If we add in rules and whatnot for this to keep things all-ages, what do we do with maps that don't follow these rules that are already ranked? Do we just unrank them and banish them to the abyss? Some of the "damage" if we want to call it that is already done so the game couldn't really turn completely all ages unless the rules apply retroactively and all uploaded rulebreaking maps are removed.

So yeah, I dunno, it sounds more realistic to use a filtering system where more mature language stuff is hidden until you explicitly allow it to be viewed in some way. And at least imo it kind of comes down to parents parenting whether a kid hear things they shouldn't if you have proper filtering/safeguards for it I guess.

Also it's old, but there's this song: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/7705 which translates to like "the fucking song" and is made up off a bunch of moaning lol.
Eraser
an nsfw toggle and a big red warning saying babies are not welcome would solve all of these problems
MaestroSplinter
It may sound so crazy but... what about just the use of "+18" and [MATURE CONTENT] right to the title of the map ?
MaestroSplinter

Master_chan wrote:

Why don't you just implement big-red-button that warn people about song containing some 18+ content?
This
pajwoj
why are we trying to make osu super sfw and child friendly all of a sudden when there's borderline hentai backgrounds and many pretty messed up songs already ranked for years

now i'm not saying to allow porn or stuff like that but honestly excessive lyrics are completely fine to me and should be allowed unless they're EXTREMELY (and i mean EXTREMELY) offensive/bad

a filter would probably be a pretty good idea, but filtering out already ranked stuff might take a super long time
Okoratu

CDFA wrote:

So we need to fucking talk about this.

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/716630

Apparently this shit is a fine pass even though we just spend all of this fucking time talking about "oh yeah content rules oh yeah we gotta be safe for the kids" like are you fucking serious.

This is a huge fuck you to me as well as others in the community who have been screwed over by these sorts of rules as well as these vague guidelines as to what is appropriate and inappropriate.

I'd very much like to see the QAT justify this being allowed to get a fair pass while maps that I've submitted put me on the verge of getting banned from the game.

THIS is why I decide to put so much god damned effort into this kind of shit. THIS kind of shit, so that I don't have to constantly hope "oh god is this QAT going to hate my map or will they love it", it'll be a simple "this is what makes your map unrankable." This subjective "oh we'll decide on it" shit didn't work when Loctav was around, and it's obvious that it's not working now.

So let's see this get justified.
I went to the featured artist listing and took a song off of it and mapped it.
Anemic Witch

Okoratu wrote:

I went to the featured artist listing and took a song off of it and mapped it.
Its all about gray zones in the rules and double-standards regarding featured artists, than your map specifically.
Topic Starter
DNR
Today I've learned that jerking off to anime titties falls into a "grey area" and is a content appropriate for a game that "tries to be all ages"

Like, I'm sure everyone knows, I'm a big fan of explicit content. I've been advocating for an 18+ channel for a while or at least some sort of place where I don't have to censor myself so much, but MAN does it suck that people are hopping around this so much because they want to sort of bend the rules for one dude.

Like yeah it's from the featured artist list but like lmfao I don't think being a featured artist allows you a free pass from rules lmao like imagine if we could just do that shit with like, song length or something. They're featured artists but this is a game with rules, standards, and procedures to get things done.

You're literally equating this to being like "Yeah my school dance said I can use songs by Pharrell Williams so I'm gonna do Drop It Like It's Hot" like do you not see what I'm getting at lmao.

Man I KNOW I've been silenced in-game a lot for talking about jerking off to anime titties so if you're gonna sit here and tell me it's okay then then we need one of two things

1) We need SPECIFIC fucking rules about what is acceptable, completely unacceptable, and a grey area
2) We need to actually enforce the same rules on everyone.

Like man.

EDIT: I literally just got silenced for talking about this exact thing so???

It is a personal insult to me that this is considered fine. It's dystopian that nobody else sees any sort of fault with this and I'm personally contemplating over ways that we can fix this because I'm tired of dealing with these double standards and I'm tired of having the rules kept intentionally vague so they can be changed at a moments notice to fit the needs of whoever is deemed worthy to fit needs.
Ephemeral
Alright. Let's give this a stab.

https://gist.github.com/Ephemeralis/b253dedf2fd87bbb6c154e483d449f2a

Super rough, but that's what I'd impose if it was up to me. Should cover enough room for artistic license while still encouraging people to map things that aren't explicit.

Some things will just never fly, for what it's worth. Artistic license or none.
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