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posted

Mio Winter wrote:

I use PP as an indicator of skill of other osu!players all the time. If a player on the forums asks "why can't I stream above 1 bpm?" I take a quick look at their profile before I reply. If it says they are 6k PP or something, then I respond very differently than if it says 1k PP. If it says 6k PP, I think "huh, that's weird that they can't stream above 1 bpm even with that level of skill; maybe there's something wrong with their hand?" whereas I would just tell the 1k PP person to stream more.
i do this as well but instead of pp i check their top plays

But I also see a stronger form of the PP-judgment, and that's how low-PP players are generally treated with much less respect on the forums than higher-PP players. Making PP a better indicator of skill won't really solve this problem, it will just guide the disrespect more reliably towards players who are bad at playing. If anything, making PP a better indicator of skill will worsen the problem.
again, that's a problem with the person, not the system. personally i couldn't care what someone's rank is (provided they're looking for help and not just shitposting) but i know that a lot of people that frequent this forum exist just to shit talk because their e-penis is bigger
posted

repr1se wrote:

personally i couldn't care what someone's rank is (provided they're looking for help and not just shitposting)
How do you define "shitposting"?
posted

Mio Winter wrote:

How do you define "shitposting"?
winber1
posted

Mio Winter wrote:

How do you define "shitposting"?
"what's the secret to being like [insert player here]?"
"what is cookiezi's tablet area?"
"i started playing this game 4 days ago and can't pass freedom dive"
"2k PP you're trash player"
"do i have rsi?"
"filthy dt pp farmers"
"i never play tv size maps and they should be worth no pp"
"stop caring about your pp... but you should be gaining ranks"
"how do i pass this map?"
"change the pp system so what i'm good at is weighed more"

examples.
posted

repr1se wrote:

Mio Winter wrote:

How do you define "shitposting"?
(1) "what's the secret to being like [insert player here]?"
(2) "what is cookiezi's tablet area?"
(3) "i started playing this game 4 days ago and can't pass freedom dive"
(4) "2k PP you're trash player"
(5) "do i have rsi?"
(6) "filthy dt pp farmers"
(7) "i never play tv size maps and they should be worth no pp"
(8) "stop caring about your pp... but you should be gaining ranks"
(9) "how do i pass this map?"
(10) "change the pp system so what i'm good at is weighed more"

examples.
At least 1, 2, 3, 5, 9 (especially 5) all seem like legitimate questions that have some probability of receiving good answers when asked in the forums, so it's rational to post the questions. Why do you think people shouldn't post these questions?

(I ask because I worry that people are being attacked for "shitposting" even when their posts are fine by my standards.)
posted
Maybe these questions are endlessly asked because we have failed to make the answers accessible enough.

I have been thinking for a while about writing a FAQ for the subforum, one that is more complete and better written than the ones currently available.
posted

Emersyne wrote:

Maybe these questions are endlessly asked because we have failed to make the answers accessible enough.

I have been thinking for a while about writing a FAQ for the subforum, one that is more complete and better written than the ones currently available.
On the other hand, we would lose 90% of the board traffic.
posted

Mio Winter wrote:

At least 1, 2, 3, 5, 9 (especially 5) all seem like legitimate questions that have some probability of receiving good answers when asked in the forums, so it's rational to post the questions. Why do you think people shouldn't post these questions?

(I ask because I worry that people are being attacked for "shitposting" even when their posts are fine by my standards.)
i respectfully disagree.

1) there's no secret, just practice. specific questions about practice (for example "what are good stream maps") aren't shitposts... but there's no real answer other than "keep practicing if you want to be [insert osu player here]". with the number of people asking this question, it's a shitpost
2) if someone wasn't trying to copy cookiezi or [insert osu player here] they wouldn't ask -- and none of us know.
3) no one becomes an olympian after 4 days, it's absurd to expect to pass [insert 7 star map here]
5) no one here is a doctor, if it hurts then stop. pretty common sense imo
9) get better? don't let hp drop to 0? there's no way i could possibly give an answer to a question like that. specific questions like "how do you deconstruct squares into two pairs of jumps" is a meaningful question, and one i can answer.

Emersyne wrote:

Maybe these questions are endlessly asked because we have failed to make the answers accessible enough.

I have been thinking for a while about writing a FAQ for the subforum, one that is more complete and better written than the ones currently available.
OT: there's a reason people have to refer posters to the FAQ... because no one reads the FAQ
posted

repr1se wrote:

Mio Winter wrote:

At least 1, 2, 3, 5, 9 (especially 5) all seem like legitimate questions that have some probability of receiving good answers when asked in the forums, so it's rational to post the questions. Why do you think people shouldn't post these questions?

(I ask because I worry that people are being attacked for "shitposting" even when their posts are fine by my standards.)
i respectfully disagree.

1) there's no secret, just practice. specific questions about practice (for example "what are good stream maps") aren't shitposts... but there's no real answer other than "keep practicing if you want to be [insert osu player here]". with the number of people asking this question, it's a shitpost
2) if someone wasn't trying to copy cookiezi or [insert osu player here] they wouldn't ask -- and none of us know.
3) no one becomes an olympian after 4 days, it's absurd to expect to pass [insert 7 star map here]
5) no one here is a doctor, if it hurts then stop. pretty common sense imo
9) get better? don't let hp drop to 0? there's no way i could possibly give an answer to a question like that. specific questions like "how do you deconstruct squares into two pairs of jumps" is a meaningful question, and one i can answer.
But people asking don't already know whether you are able to answer or not. If they already knew that no one could provide them with a good answer, they wouldn't ask, so asking is a good way of finding out that no one knows the answer. Imagine a teacher, upon being asked a question by a student, replying "I don't know the answer, therefore the question is stupid and you shouldn't have asked it."

Regardless, I think I would be able to give meaningfwl answers to some of those questions even if you think you can't. And other players may be able to as well. Like, "What's the secret to being like Rohulk?" could be answered with a link to a YouTube video where he tries to explain it (not that I think he actually succeeded at explaining it : P).
posted

Mio Winter wrote:

But people asking don't already know whether you are able to answer or not. If they already knew that no one could provide them with a good answer, they wouldn't ask, so asking is a good way of finding out that no one knows the answer. Imagine a teacher, upon being asked a question by a student, replying "I don't know the answer, therefore the question is stupid and you shouldn't have asked it."
this misrepresents my point... there ARE good questions to which the answer isn't known, but there are questions where the answer is not known, but it's also pointless to go about "finding" such an answer -- even more so if the question had been asked previously.

there are a thousand web pages where people are asking what cookiezi's tablet area is, and we don't know, and it's pointless to find out -- and if we find the answer, what good does it do? most likely the person asking wants to copy cookiezi and thinks that doing so makes him better. but it just as well could be destructive.

if someone asked "what is the overlap in ms of two notes in a 1/4 stream at 200bpm," that's a great question which i don't know the answer to. but hey, if you think you can answer the questions i think are shitposts, go ahead, nothing against you for it
posted

repr1se wrote:

Mio Winter wrote:

How do you define "shitposting"?
"what's the secret to being like [insert player here]?"
"what is cookiezi's tablet area?"
"i started playing this game 4 days ago and can't pass freedom dive"
"2k PP you're trash player"
"do i have rsi?"
"filthy dt pp farmers"
"i never play tv size maps and they should be worth no pp"
"stop caring about your pp... but you should be gaining ranks"
"how do i pass this map?"
"change the pp system so what i'm good at is weighed more"

examples.
"That's already shitposting for you? LUL
You are like a little babby
do you even 4chan?
get on my level and try harder xddddddd"


^example.
posted
I am shit posting.

Mio Winter wrote:

Making PP a better indicator of skill won't really solve this problem, it will just guide the disrespect more reliably towards players who are bad at playing. If anything, making PP a better indicator of skill will worsen the problem.
Making Asians do more stereotypical Asian things will just guide the racism more towards Asians, not because people are racist
posted
Osu is a rhythm game (a game where a player's intended inputs are precisely determined by the rhythm of a song) therefore accuracy in regards to rhythm should be the most important factor.

Note that this argument is not at all circular and that you and your provided example arguments all suffer from extremely imprecise definitions. Note that the above argument does not as accuracy and precision are two completely unrelated things that are commonly sought in tandem with each other.

If you ask for my honest opinion osu is a music game which is a much broader category. When compare to VSRG the playfield in osu provides additional dimensions allowing for inputs to be precisely determined by other dimensions of the music (ie. various forms of contrast aka emphasis). These additional input dimensions correspond to aiming a cursor.
posted

N0thingSpecial wrote:

I am shit posting.

Mio Winter wrote:

Making PP a better indicator of skill won't really solve this problem, it will just guide the disrespect more reliably towards players who are bad at playing. If anything, making PP a better indicator of skill will worsen the problem.
Making Asians do more stereotypical Asian things will just guide the racism more towards Asians, not because people are racist
Agreed, I hate Asians too.
posted

B1rd wrote:

Agreed, I hate Asians too.
Me too thanks
posted
:(
posted

chainpullz wrote:

Osu is a rhythm game (a game where a player's intended inputs are precisely determined by the rhythm of a song) therefore accuracy in regards to rhythm should be the most important factor.

Note that this argument is not at all circular and that you and your provided example arguments all suffer from extremely imprecise definitions. Note that the above argument does not as accuracy and precision are two completely unrelated things that are commonly sought in tandem with each other.
I guess B1rd's way of explaining it was better.

B1rd wrote:

It's putting the cart before the horse; it is not defined by its label, its label is defined by it. The term "rhythm game" is just a description that helps identify a game of a broad genre by similarities, it's primary function is to categorise games, not define their gameplay. I could easily identify all "rhythm games" as "finger stamina games" and argue that that label justified more in-game focus on stamina. You can see how only stupid people use that argument.
THE CATEGORIES WERE MADE FOR MAN, NOT MAN FOR THE CATEGORIES.
posted

repr1se wrote:

OT: there's a reason people have to refer posters to the FAQ... because no one reads the FAQ
I feel like the reason that nobody reads the FAQs are not because they are devoid of info, but because they are long as fuck, poorly written and boring as hell to read.

t/187364

Like, seriously. If you wanted help with something, would you want to read through all this long winded childish rambling in the hope of gaining a few nuggets of info, especially if you are not fluent in English? You could condense all the information in this mess to a document that is a tenth of the length and lose nothing of value.
posted

Emersyne wrote:

repr1se wrote:

OT: there's a reason people have to refer posters to the FAQ... because no one reads the FAQ
I feel like the reason that nobody reads the FAQs are not because they are devoid of info, but because they are long as fuck, poorly written and boring as hell to read.

t/187364

Like, seriously. If you wanted help with something, would you want to read through all this long winded childish rambling in the hope of gaining a few nuggets of info, especially if you are not fluent in English? You could condense all the information in this mess to a document that is a tenth of the length and lose nothing of value.
ive given bullet points and condensed answers before.... But it wasn't enough to satisfy the op, apparently secrets were hidden from them or some bullshit.

they want detailed answers but won't be bothered to read the essay, a problem with the person rather than the faq

When I first started playing I read that faq top to bottom, I dont see why someone else wouldn't, unless they're not able to read
posted
You could rewrite the FAQ, but you’ll still get the same guy with no ability of self evaluation asking the same fruitless questions, you can’t blame an inanimate object for people’s laziness lol
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