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posted

Catgirl wrote:

[Taiga] wrote:

4. Ranking and competition

Short - please don't speak about ranking being competitive when right now whole idea of pp ranking is an "shooter based game with rhythm in background". Ranking was competitive till mid of 2015 where whole idea of forcing aim based maps started, where "one trick ponies" were punished and they were halted at certain point for not knowing how to read complex patterns, how to stream, how to burst, how to jump etc.

TL;DR: Personally, I don't mind touchscreen players, more, I pray for more scores like that to expose flaws of current mapping meta. Maybe players start veto this 30s-1m pure aim based overweighted maps and force mappers to make something "quality". It is not device problem - it is pure mapping problem which comes to - pure human problem. You opened doors for touchscreen players to make this scores. Deal with it.
agreed completely with everything in this post

the way i see the situation over time is

1 - flawed pp system ->
2 - people discover the flaws in the system ->
3 - mappers make maps to exploit those flaws ->
4 - people like those maps because pp ->
5 - mappers make more and more of them which are even more dramatically flawed ->
6 - touchscreen can be viable for unthinkable pp plays on some of these maps

and people are thinking that suddenly removing touchscreen will fix the problem, but you really need to look back as far as step 3 at minimum, or ideally back to step 1

the problem is that the game is kinda beyond fixing due to the mentality of much of the playerbase, and due to stuff like #4 the meta probably wouldn't shift at all for a long time. for example if pp was removed today, people would still map the same way because people like the mapping style. if pp never existed (or if the system was 100% perfect on release which is impossible) then there wouldn't have been a step 2 or 3, and so on

tl;dr the problem isn't touchscreen, touchscreen has the potential to amplify the problem and peoples' perception of it
That some nice post , as you can see in *problem chain* we just need to change pp gain from long distance jumps ;)
In my opinion there must be some distance lock for pp gain , like half of screen distance between hit circles can give you max pp gain (ofc much less than now ) , distances above it will just give same pp . Its just simple explanation of idea
posted
I originally posted this on the osugame subreddit, yet it got less than 200 views. (30 or so mine editing lol) but here I am presenting my own idea.

Recent (and past) events regarding touchscreen have been a discussion topic for everyone here, and yet, no one has presented an idea that could work to make this game enjoyable and fair for everyone, again.


And so I was thinking, people want a new leaderboard for touchscreen players, right? Well... let me suggest... what about a new leaderboard for everyone? Not a pp based leaderboard, but a League-based/MMR/ELO one.


How though? It looks impossible. Well... Let's give it a try anyway.


Imagine a world, where mappers aim for actual rhythm heavy maps, complex and fun over just triangle jumps and pp.
Where your rank somewhat reflects your ability in the game and your ability to follow the rhythm of a song regardless of which one is it.

________________________________________________________________________________________

Let's make two leaderboards.

The pp leaderboard we have right now.

And, a new leaderboard for ranked multiplayer matches.


Enter multiplayer, click in ranked play and enter a random room of either "FFA" or 1v1. Find a random map, ranked over a new criteria where maps can actually get pushed to pp-leaderboards or league-leaderboards.
You have one try. Give it your best, and depending on your performance you'll get more or less points for a leaderboard.


It's basically the same system from games like League of Legends, Overwatch, etc. I'm actually surprised this hasn't been implemented yet.

________________________________________________________________________________________

**Questions:**

Q- Now, how do we get people to select the MapPools for each league?

A- Well, this is the hardest part, since people should have to go manually over every ranked map (or at least most of them) and mark them as able for league or not, and which league. After that, it's the same process as ranking has right now but with the possibility to aim for league or ppranking. (Think of it as people aiming for loved)

Q- Coming with Lazer.

A- ™

Q- Osu! is historically singleplayer, a small amount of people play multiplayer. Having a ranking system dependent on MP may force players to play the game in a way they don't like, at the pace of the slowest map downloader, and at the whim of whoever is choosing the maps.

A- Multiplayer here is more of a channel than a way of playing, meaning, the same would be achieved if you entered a room with 7 people without name and without chat, just playing. And if things run slow, timers. Since it should be automated with bancho, at least, in the ranked setting.

Q-"You have one try". Standard osu is a game that absolutely contains a large factor of luck. If you rush one note then you can miss an entire stream and lose 10% accuracy, and if combo counts then everyone is fucked. Having one try will make people smash their monitors.

A- ScoreV2. Also, that's the way this is intended to work. Consistency and rhythm reading.

Q- Ask more questions, they might get a response here.


________________________________________________________________________________________

**Problems:**

-Requires a lot of work, but, really, can we achieve a good community driven game without effort? It's what made this game so beautiful for all of us in the first place. (Without underestimating the devs effort, of course)
________________________________________________________________________________________

**Solved Issues:**


* Touchscreens won't abuse (all) the systems.

* Touchscreen players are still able to play.

* pp is still a thing. I like pp myself, but it's as flawed as an Ubisoft game.

* Mappers can aim for things other than pp! (pishifat has had a lot of influence over me)

* Team rankings? Unranked Multiplayer! Technical maps multiplayer! an actual osu! eSport?! You call it, possibilities could be infinite with just a little work.

* Tournament settings would be the standard, which will skyrocket the level of the current big tournaments.

* osu! would now be, at least, 50% of a rhythm game. (current: 5%)

________________________________________________________________________________________

I'm sorry that I present this post in an ugly text format. I don't know anything about programming and I thought I should jump on the bandwagon of the recent leaderboard abusing events.
This isn't perfect at all, but it's what I think would be a beautiful approach that will make more and more people enjoy this game.
Please discuss, add ideas, I believe this can be the moment to make a change. Together.

Thanks for reading. (A lot of edits just went into readability of the post.)

No TL;DR. I believe this is important
posted

Mio Winter wrote:

ZethZ161 wrote:

People really are contradicting themselves. When the last highest pp record was set, people are awaiting for new records. But now, when a new record is set, people complaning about it because it is set by a touchscreen player. If new records is what everyone wants, why they complaint about it when the score is there, just because it is a touchscreen play? It is acheived from a legit play and not just aimbot or anything like that, so I don't see any problems with it.

Look, I don't care any of this bullshit, partly because I don't play STD, another part is he didn't do anything wrong or cheated the scores. I know it is basically unreacheable with normal gameplay styles like tab or mouse, but who cares? If the score is set without cheating, then it is set. There's no reason for anyone to ban the score just because "you're a touchscreen player".

So, just stop the drama from this score, and just accept the fact that freedomdiver set a 900 pp scores with a touchscreen. If you can't accept the score, go for it. Rant anyway you want. Complain and hate him as much as you want to. That will help nothing.

Who knows, maybe someday, someone, will acheive a 900 pp play with a tablet or mouse? Time will tell. Just like Cookiezi's 817 pp record on Remote Control +HDDT, this record will be taken down too. How long? No one knows. But from my view, this score is legit and it should'nt be banned, anytime. Just let this pp record act as a target for the rest of the players to aim for.

-ZethZ161

Note: this is all my personal opinions, so if you want to, hate it. i wont complain since everyone has a different perspective on everything :D
No one is complaining about freedomdiver, trying to ban them or saying that touchscreen players are doing anything wrong. The issue is simply that the ranking system is designed with the purpose of awarding rank to players who can do the most difficult things, and using touchscreen makes it much easier (unfairly so) to attain rank on this system. Therefore the system is failing its purpose, and this thread here to find a way make it better. The blame goes to Reality for making it hard to create a good PP system, not to TS players for having fun playing their style and trying to do their best. : )
Well, I mean people are ranting anywhere in YouTube right now, so yeah.
I probably get the wrong point here, but hey, I'm also exposing the hate on TS players, so I think that kinda fits in the forum since it's related about the disagreement from a lot of players about his score.
AND YES, pp system is broken.
posted
pp system is broken?nah touchscreen wouldn't be a problem if we wouldn't have 1 minute aim only maps that were made specifically for pp, it's the playerbase fault, you literally designed maps to be played like this for your own greed and now you cry about it, start mapping and playing for the fun of a rhythm game and maps like haitai and touchscreen problems wouldnt exist
posted

Manuel Bartual wrote:

I originally posted this on the osugame subreddit, yet it got less than 200 views. (30 or so mine editing lol) but here I am presenting my own idea.

Recent (and past) events regarding touchscreen have been a discussion topic for everyone here, and yet, no one has presented an idea that could work to make this game enjoyable and fair for everyone, again.
OT - because reddit is not for discussions, mods there allow naming and shaming, false accusations, all kind of shit, even against reddit rules. Don't expect from most cancerous place in this community to have any kind of discussion besides of pointless drama and river of tears from 6-digits.


Manuel Bartual wrote:

And so I was thinking, people want a new leaderboard for touchscreen players, right? Well... let me suggest... what about a new leaderboard for everyone? Not a pp based leaderboard, but a League-based/MMR/ELO one.


How though? It looks impossible. Well... Let's give it a try anyway.


Imagine a world, where mappers aim for actual rhythm heavy maps, complex and fun over just triangle jumps and pp.
Where your rank somewhat reflects your ability in the game and your ability to follow the rhythm of a song regardless of which one is it.

________________________________________________________________________________________

Let's make two leaderboards.

The pp leaderboard we have right now.

And, a new leaderboard for ranked multiplayer matches.


Enter multiplayer, click in ranked play and enter a random room of either "FFA" or 1v1. Find a random map, ranked over a new criteria where maps can actually get pushed to pp-leaderboards or league-leaderboards.
You have one try. Give it your best, and depending on your performance you'll get more or less points for a leaderboard.


It's basically the same system from games like League of Legends, Overwatch, etc. I'm actually surprised this hasn't been implemented yet.

________________________________________________________________________________________
Idea is not bad but let me try to argue about it a little:

1. Speaking of ladders - Creating new leaderboard brings with it resources, coding work which means, lots of time spent to implement another ladder. Speaking of "1v1" / "FFA" - it require 2 separate ladders, so right now we have 3. Decent infrastructure handles this with 6 dedicated servers (3 database servers and 3 web + computing servers, more advanced one with also add database replication servers for stability and backup). Do you see cost now? We need to work around this what we have now.

2. Speaking of creating maps - There will be always mappers who exploit system to influent infinite amount of performance points into system, you cannot avoid this unless playerbase will not disagree with this and connect in veto their creations. From other way, QAT (as name say - Quality Assurance Team) is responsible to not allow this kind of maps to be ranked, yet they basically let them pass in the name of "They are perfectly fine with ranking criteria". Note that ranking criteria doesn't say anything about quality which means - you can create a 100% horizontal / vertical full jump map and as far as it fits song and will be perfect in term of ranking criteria, it can be ranked. Yet - does repetitive patterns from second one to second 30 will have quality? No.

Community chosen this kind of behavior, they basically agreed with low quality overweighted maps and simply gave green light to mappers to create them. I don't have any problem to QAT because as far as community disagree, they do their job and stop map from being ranked. But it could be better from their position.

Manuel Bartual wrote:

**Questions:**

Q- Now, how do we get people to select the MapPools for each league?

A- Well, this is the hardest part, since people should have to go manually over every ranked map (or at least most of them) and mark them as able for league or not, and which league. After that, it's the same process as ranking has right now but with the possibility to aim for league or ppranking. (Think of it as people aiming for loved)
There is another option which require huge load of work for several people proficient in mapping and high tier gameplay at same time (and hard to find this one right now... mapper who is low/mid 5-digit will never know how his 6* map plays in real if he is not able to play it efficiently, I know this from my own experience). Get all "well made" maps, mark them, tag them for mods, tag them for difficulty, let "Random Randy" roll maps for polls.

Manuel Bartual wrote:

**Solved Issues:**


* Touchscreens won't abuse (all) the systems.

* Touchscreen players are still able to play.

* pp is still a thing. I like pp myself, but it's as flawed as an Ubisoft game.

* Mappers can aim for things other than pp! (pishifat has had a lot of influence over me)

* Team rankings? Unranked Multiplayer! Technical maps multiplayer! an actual osu! eSport?! You call it, possibilities could be infinite with just a little work.

* Tournament settings would be the standard, which will skyrocket the level of the current big tournaments.

* osu! would now be, at least, 50% of a rhythm game. (current: 5%)
As I said, touchscreen is not a problem. It is only for people who doesn't realize fact that for example in 2015, this hardware had REALLY low amount of playable maps, there is even topic in GnR with list of playable maps for touchscreen. Whole boom started when mappers started abusing ranking criteria + pp formula and made 30s to 1m super short, pure aim based maps which are perfect for touchscreen. They went crazy with 6* less than 1 min map, like WTF? And now people are crying that touchscreen is broken.

osu! is still a rhythm game, there is great amount of good maps (look at RLC, Pishi, fanzhen, 09kami and more mappers who said "No" to pp mapping and still making amazing full size balanced maps and from semi to full tech maps) which require more than just jumping ability. Problem is in mappers who influence massive amount of pp for one particular skillset and onwards, breaking completely ranking allowing one-trick-ponies to gain way higher rank than they initially deserve.
posted
I think that we don't need separate leaderboards, as they are by score, not PP.
The high aim PP from touchscreen plays is problem, right? We just need to detect touchplay then!

We don't need to nerf aim too, maybe just push some other skills up by little (especially on highest star rating?), but that's another matter that falls into PP system and should probably be discussed separately. So, let's focus on touchscreens.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I think that very good idea for solution could be this simple one (simple idea, not implementation) :


→ Detect touchscreen play and evaluate it using different algorithm.


Let's assume that we have an algorithm to detect touchscreen play.
That is, to almost certainly say, if it's a touchscreen play, where by almost certainly I mean a case, where probability for it not being touchscreen play is very close to zero.

Technically, I think it shouldn't be hard in theory, but I am not sure about "precision" of current replays, maybe on lower performance and rapid jumps it can be little problematic with how currently replays works? Well, increasing precision can probably create other problems, there will be much bigger data transfer required to submit all new, bigger replays, etc., I don't really know much about this stuff, in terms of how much of it osu! requires, but let's assume that if there's this kind of problem, then we can eventually "improve" the replays and solve submission issues too.

Now, basing on how fast cursor changes position, giving enough precision, it should be relatively easy to conclude, if it's a touchscreen play, right? And by touchscreen play I mean "teleporting movement", an instantaneous shift in cursor position.
The changes in position that are very small could be disregarded, as stuff like clicking overlapping circles isn't really important here (the big jumps are our issue) and replay's precision requires us to set some limits.

Now, when the score gets submitted, it's being processed and if a "touchscreen play" segments are detected, they are evaluated with different PP algorithm. Or the whole score is simply marked as "touchscreen" and evaluated differently.

What do you think about this?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

There are at least 2 issues or things to do, that we have with this from the very start though:

(1) New PP algorithm for touchscreen segments is needed. Or maybe more like just touchscreen aim PP tweak, while leaving some of the rest of PP (streaming, acc?) as normal?


(2) Not sure how much more computational resources it would take, to analyze every new best submitted score in search of touchscreen play segments, but maybe there's actually no real problem here? If we was to simply mark a whole score as a touchscreen play, we just need to find an instances of touchscreen plays in it, so probably not much of trouble here?

(I assume that it could be an overkill, if we would want to go ham and try to judge which parts of score are touchscreen play, and which are not, in case of mixed plays? It's so marginal that just marking play as normal/touchscreen should be okay, especially as doing something like this would require to "analyze" whole score, which is redundant here)
(optional)(And if we decide to not simply mark the whole play as touchscreen, in case of "mixed input devices" plays, then we would need to reasonably fuse "normal" and "touchscreen" PP)
posted
Just change the ranking criteria avoid sub 1:20 maps unrank <1min maps and call it a day
posted

Manuel Bartual wrote:

Just change the ranking criteria avoid sub 1:20 maps unrank <1min maps and call it a day
NO.
posted

Linada wrote:

Edgar_Figaro wrote:

I just think the problem with the PP and Score system has to do with combo based scoring. 1 miss should be 1 miss no matter where it occurs
then FCing a map wouldn't be as rewarding as it is now, if you miss on a hard part or a slow part would mean exactly the same. FCing is still something that has do be rewarded, osu! combo wheighting is still a unique part of the game (as any other rhythm game doesn't use), making it important is what is making osu! unique imo. It makes you really wants to FC maps, and is rewarding you.
I think you misunderstand me. I think an FC should still be awarded, I just think that misses should be more penalized, and the combo element removed.

Just to put it in perspective, assume you are taking a math test and you teacher graded on question combo. You get every single question right on this 100 question test except the 50th question. Well sorry to say but your grade on that test is now terrible. Meanwhile other kid in your class gets first 80 questions right and then screws up 10 of the last 20. Their score is now considered better than yours. Don’t you see how asinine that is? Why should a kid that missed more problems get a better score?

Following “negative” things combo based scoring/PP causes:
1. Touchscreen with jump maps as we’ve seen here. If ACC is more valued over Combo touchscreen will be more balanced with mouse/tablet
2. Short map incentivizing. While yes long maps give more PP, it is much much easier to FC a short map than a long map due to stamina/consistency.
3. Mods are underweighted. In any competitive play, the mod play will only win if they have equal (or very close combo) to a nomod score making usage of mods usually a bad idea as the chances of a miss go up tremendously.
4. Difficulty spikes in maps. When combo is all that really matters, Maps that have insane cross-screen jumps as the final pattern while the rest was easy will still award insane PP. If # of misses was the meta, players missing here would be penalized heavily just like if they missed in the middle of the map making these sudden difficulty spike maps not as free of PP and more deserving of their SR.

Scoring system suggestion (like Score V2 but with a twist):
1. Score cap of 1 million (just makes things cleaner, spinners could make it exceed 1 mil slightly)
2. Accuracy = 300,000 points
3. All hit objects hit = 700,000 points (each Hit object hit awards a even split amount of this 700,000 NO combo multiplier, each miss removes 5% of Hit object score but never to reduce below 0 points. Basically if you miss 20x+ you’d get nothing from the “combo” side of the score/PP)
4. Mods allow max scoring also to exceed 1 million with current multiplier system. (Since a mod like HR adds 6% score and a miss removes 5% of 70% of the score = ~ 3.5% score loss per miss, a 1x mod play will beat a nomod FC (with same ACC), but multiple misses will cause nomod score to win. This makes mod play much more viable and encouraged while not letting it overpower)

PP system will still probably need mod bonus calculated separately from score as difficulty of specific mods on maps varies.
posted
Great post, ppy. Now I could shove this post to their asses because they complain about touchscreen players simply playing the game lol
posted
Excellent post, peppy. Good to see you grasping the situation and getting to the root of the problem quickly. As long as I know the fix is coming, waiting for it a while is fine for me. Also +1 to jesse and xytox's comments.

As for the people who are suggesting rebalancing the current pp system by nerfing jumps - good luck ever getting pp from your aim again after we nerf exgon's nico mega mix play so it isn't the top pp play lol.
posted

ZethZ161 wrote:

Look, I don't care any of this bullshit, partly because I don't play STD, another part is he didn't do anything wrong or cheated the scores. I know it is basically unreacheable with normal gameplay styles like tab or mouse, but who cares? If the score is set without cheating, then it is set. There's no reason for anyone to ban the score just because "you're a touchscreen player".
I do care, right now the system compares a fish and a monkey for their ability to climb trees (hope you understand what I want to say). AND yes, we want new top scores, but top scores that are worth watching, not that shit. AND if you state that you "don't care of this bullshit", then stick to your gamemode and don't make useless comments here.
posted
While your making changes to game, can you please make hidden give no extra pp, since it shouldn't because it is a vision mod which is completely based on preference and doesn't add practically any difficulty at high AR (which is what most people play anyway)
posted

Skeletroll wrote:

While your making changes to game, can you please make hidden give no extra pp, since it shouldn't because it is a vision mod which is completely based on preference and doesn't add practically any difficulty at high AR (which is what most people play anyway)
Yeah basically.

Peppy I really appreciate that you have reacted fast to these news and all, even though you often express that you don't care all that much about the competitive aspect of the game.
Still a lot of people play this game to compete and that is what 'enjoy the game' means to them. Even if your own personal preference is different why do you feel the need to disregard those people? The state of the competitive scene should rise on your to do list the sooner the better at this point.
posted
How about we just play the game we like and don't care about other people's scores? Is that too much to ask for?
posted

peppy wrote:

"The new play had low 80-90% accuracy! Just de-weight the accuracy in pp!"

There's no reason touchscreen players can't improve their accuracy to a higher level. This would only delay the inevitable -Tom94
This is an extremely weak and lazy argument in my opinion.
I don't see how shifting the accuracy requirement to achive the same score can be seen in such a way, you are basically saying that players don't have to show any sort of effort to achieve absurd scores.
Not only that but you are vastly underestimating the effort and determination that is required to perform the same sort of play freedomdiver made but on a higher accuracy level.
It's not a matter of retrying a few times and you magically get 98%...
If the pp score freedomdiver gained from his play was equivalent to let's say at least 95% acc play then nobody would have complained, because that would be straight up WAAAY more impressive than his current play is.

My idea to this entire fiasco was to shift pp awards from plays to the higher end of the accuracy curve, speaking the 900+ pp play from freedomdiver on 78% accuracy would need at least around 90% accuracy instead. I am not sure how the current pp formula looks like but having accuracy play a more vital role, perhaps in an exponential way would work out for the better?
Another issue that I noticed is that beatmap length doesn't seem to be factored into the formula in any way.

To give my idea some visualization, I prepared a few exponential graphs to showcase how it -might- work. (note these are just quickly assembled just for the sake of presentation)



Let the x axis be accuracy going from 0 to 100% and the y axis be the overall multiplier for the pp score you are awarded for a play going from 0 to 1.0.
The red graph would be the initial function used for further calculations, for example you could adjust accuracy requirement based on draintime of a beatmap.
The green graph showcases the accuracy needed for a rather short beatmap whereas the purple graph showcases the accuracy needed for a relatively long beatmap.
It basically get's more lenient the longer the draintime is.

This idea is just a proposal without much detail, but I think it's worth considering since it might help in getting rid of problems such as overweighted (poor accuracy) performance plays.
Seeing as many top plays are also TV Size length and DT plays it would put a higher skill cap towards accuracy.

One other huge issue to me is that the only special aspect of SS (100% acc) plays is.. yes that they are SS scores. They don't have a huge enough impact to actively pursue in my opinion. Giving them an additional 5% pp on top at the end would probably make them more desireable for many people to actually play for.

TLDR:
It's not a matter of delaying the inevitable, but a matter of forcing players to perform better overall so touchscreen scores like this won't be considered cheesy by the community.
Everybody should be able to see how much of a skill difference would be required to perform the same play on higher end accuracy.

Bottomline however is that it probably isn't worth initiating any measures for this problem and just wait out until further development is finished, seeing how much more advanced pp+ is compared to the current system.
posted
I believe that in the long-run, touchscreen should have its own competitive scene as it is a very different game. Replay analysers could automatically tell if a play is touchscreen and simply score them based on this.

This being said, it is not anything that needs to be done urgently.
posted

hi-mei wrote:

How do you imagine that?

So you play, lets say, Apparition, you fc the streams, then you pause, then you switch to the touchscreen to hit jumps, then you see the stream again and the jumps right after it.

You switch again, dont forget to hit that orange thing that appears after pauses.

And if you miss, you gonna start again and again and again and again. Its super inefficient and way less abusable than it is now. Why? because you have to be as good as your touchsceen aim to play these insane streams and patterns.

To summarize our convo:

I do agree that touchscreen is a "cheat", the "cheat" that can only work on specific kind of maps - very short jumpy map, other than that - its super bad.

I do believe that rewarding system should be more balanced, more rewarding for people who likes others type of maps (i.e. -GN, Gayzcmgee, idke). For now, the mapping meta are based around playing short maps with 1/2 spam, that affected the entire generation of mappers and players, and to be fair it has to be addressed at some point.

Its like in any RPG or MOBA, when one class is dominating over all the other classes for more than 3 years, everybody knows that, nobody do shit about it.
Yes of course you can fit the argument around your own views if you pick a map that this doesn't work with. If you're going to bitch about how "mappers are the problem not touchscreen players!!" then you can't just ignore a new opportunity for mappers to abuse the pp system. If balance was rewarded so heavily, what makes you think mappers wouldn't just make a long stream map with a jump section at the end? Have you even thought ahead? If mappers will always abuse the pp system (which they will) your fix is LITERALLY just to delay the problem. In the future, when these new abuseable maps come along, people can play the first 4/5 with tablet/mouse and then swap right before a jump section.

hi-mei wrote:

Man, its been literally 3 years since this shit started.

80% of top 50 are DT tv-size maps abusers.

It affects players to focus on short low effort maps, also it affects mappers who wants their maps to be played, so they are finding low effort short maps are way more profitable to spend their time on than making long maps with variety of stuff in it.

I mean, while we are at it, isnt it the best time to fix it all together?
Well this is going to be a long post...

#1. Cookiezi - Top ranks don't consist of TV size maps (highest ranked player in the game doesn't do it, but it's apparently the problem). Doesn't rely on short maps.
#2. Rafis - 3 out of his top 20 scores are < 1 min 30 secs. 7 are longer than 4 minutes. Doesn't rely on short maps.
#3. Vaxei - Plays longer, VERY intense aim maps. Doesn't rely on short maps.
#4. filsdelama - Plays mostly long dt aim maps, with a large amount of dthdhr scores. Doesn't rely on short maps.
#5. firebat92 - Basically the same kind of player as rafis. Doesn't rely on short maps.
#6. hvick225 - Doesn't rely on short maps.
#7. _RyuK - Arguably abuses short maps.
#8. Emilia - Plays extreme jump maps. Doesn't rely on short maps.
#9. Mathi - Variety player, does a bit of everything. Doesn't rely on short maps.
#10. Rohulk - Doesn't rely on short maps.
#11. Piggey - Doesn't rely on short maps.
#12. Spare - Plays a mix of dt and nomod. Doesn't rely on short maps.
#13. Bubbleman - Variety player. Doesn't rely on short maps.
#14. Dustice - Variety player. Doesn't rely on short maps.
#15. mcy3 - Hands down abuses short maps.
#16. idke - Doesn't rely on short maps.
#17. Happystick - Doesn't rely on short maps.
#18. Yaong - Doesn't rely on short maps.
#19. bro_gamer72 - Doesn't rely on short maps.
#20. index - Doesn't rely on short maps.

1 of those players clearly abuses short maps. 1 player heavily uses them. At best that's 1/10.

I could keep going, but the trend is the same. Your imaginary problem doesn't exist. Stop making up COMPLETE BULLSHIT. Why do I have to spend my time checking all these players because you've made up an argument that's impossible to refute without wasting time checking? 80%? I'd guess closer to 10%, at which point, is it really abusing? If short maps were SO overrated then why in the world aren't top players relying on them?

Edgar_Figaro wrote:

I'm personally of the same opinion that the PP algorithmn needs to award stamina more than it currently does. While longer maps do give more PP it becomes extremely hard to get any PP from them as 1 miss in the middle of the map and you don't get anything for it. If the song is 5 minutes long it is much more challenging to stay consistent for 5 minutes than it is to stay consistent for 30 seconds. Easiest solution to this would be to simply make combo irrelevant and have PP calculated from Accuracy and Number of misses. You'd still likely miss more times on a long map than a short map but the length bonus would counteract the number of misses and make long maps more viable.

Also the current score meta would need to be altered as well as combo is still very much relevant in that and in order for a # of misses system to actually have a 1x play where you missed in the center to beat a 10x play where you comboed the first 2/3 of the song and then started missing periodically in the last 1/3 it would have to be altered to this.

Also by having combo less important Accuracy becomes more important and helps to negate alot of the issue with touchscreen.

I don't think touchscreen needs to be on a different leaderboard or even get a mod reduction thing to scan plays to see if they used a touchscreen. I just think the problem with the PP and Score system has to do with combo based scoring. 1 miss should be 1 miss no matter where it occurs
This doesn't help the touchscreen problem at all, I'm not going to argue about combo vs accuracy in this thread because it's an irrelevant topic, but you're just making the problem worse with these ideas. If a map was 5 minutes of mediocre tier streams that everyone can get 99.9% acc on and then changed to a section of fullscreen insane 9* jumps, you could just miss the entire jump section and still get a bunch of pp.

Read this thread if you want to know why combo is important in standard.

Linada wrote:

in my opinion, the best way to fix this is to change PP system, having it rewarding different skills independently, like aim/speed/accuracy/reading/stamina and others skills i may forgot, something like how PP+ does (with better wheighting of course, the actual one isn't really accurate imo), so mappers that absolutely want their map being played wouldn't be forced to focus on aim focused map (because actually the game values aim more than anything else), that would actually add diversity on mapping (even if it'll end up the same as the actual mapping meta, they'll try to do the easiest overwheigted maps in X skill, but since it'll add more diversity i think it's still a good thing).

Having different wheightings would make it so if touchscreens plays a really short map with heavy aiming, easy flow and full of 1/2 rhythms (let's say haitai), they would get full PP from the 'aim' part of the map, but negtlecting accuracy, stamina, reading, etc.

Then also this could create news leaderboards per skill (aim, speed, etc) creating new competitions and new goals for players. But i guess it would be pretty hard to implement, i have no idea.
PP already does this on the back end, but speed/aim/acc values are combined for each score and given as "pp". Changing that would make the system far more touchscreen proof, but it doesn't solve the problem. A touchscreen player would have INSANE aim score, and if they played at a mediocre level with tablet/mouse as well, they could farm some pretty significant speed/acc points.

Linada wrote:

then FCing a map wouldn't be as rewarding as it is now, if you miss on a hard part or a slow part would mean exactly the same. FCing is still something that has do be rewarded, osu! combo wheighting is still a unique part of the game (as any other rhythm game doesn't use), making it important is what is making osu! unique imo. It makes you really wants to FC maps, and is rewarding you.
Again, read this thread if you want to know why combo is important in standard.

Atago wrote:

Hi, great post!
Regarding the pp algorithm, I think that there might be a solution? Im not very familiar with touchscreen, but im assuming that its pretty hard to do streams on it, isnt it? Because I rarely see any tablet plays that involed a lot of stream parts( like ror, freedoom dive etc) and mostly jump maps like granat. So why not buff streaming pp? If you dont have the way i think it would be pretty easy solution, like what is streaming? Its when theres little to no time between pressing notes, so just check that(the timing between notes and the ammount of notes pressed after the timing threshold is at right value), im sure you can figure it out. And its not necessary that it should be increased a lot, a tad bit should be alright.

Good luck with this problem,
-Atago
This doesn't solve any issue at all without completely ruining the importance of aim for standard players.

CoolZGuy wrote:

Thx for responding to this issue so quickly peppy. As a touchscreen player, the only worry I have is that this touchscreen mod idea devalues all plays no matter the kind of map. While I know it is difficult to know if a map is a jump heavy map or a stream heavy map, I still feel like a solution like this would do more harm than good esp on more modern maps. For example, if I do well on a map that's more stream heavy or has intricate patterns, I don't think my play should be worth less than that of another player. While I understand that changes do need to be made, I only hope that your longterm solution isn't so overarching.
Possibly correct, that's why the only fair option if for touchscreen to compete with touchscreen players and mouse/tablet players to compete with mouse/tablet players.

ZethZ161 wrote:

People really are contradicting themselves. When the last highest pp record was set, people are awaiting for new records. But now, when a new record is set, people complaning about it because it is set by a touchscreen player. If new records is what everyone wants, why they complaint about it when the score is there, just because it is a touchscreen play? It is acheived from a legit play and not just aimbot or anything like that, so I don't see any problems with it.

Look, I don't care any of this bullshit, partly because I don't play STD, another part is he didn't do anything wrong or cheated the scores. I know it is basically unreacheable with normal gameplay styles like tab or mouse, but who cares? If the score is set without cheating, then it is set. There's no reason for anyone to ban the score just because "you're a touchscreen player".

So, just stop the drama from this score, and just accept the fact that freedomdiver set a 900 pp scores with a touchscreen. If you can't accept the score, go for it. Rant anyway you want. Complain and hate him as much as you want to. That will help nothing.

Who knows, maybe someday, someone, will acheive a 900 pp play with a tablet or mouse? Time will tell. Just like Cookiezi's 817 pp record on Remote Control +HDDT, this record will be taken down too. How long? No one knows. But from my view, this score is legit and it should'nt be banned, anytime. Just let this pp record act as a target for the rest of the players to aim for.

-ZethZ161

Note: this is all my personal opinions, so if you want to, hate it. i wont complain since everyone has a different perspective on everything :D
This post gave me autism. If someone else did the same score with tablet/mouse, everyone would be going BONKERS with hype. The score would be INCREDIBLE. What are you smoking to think the issue is the map, not the peripheral? Of people might argue that the score is overweighted, but no one would be as upset as they are right now.

You clearly haven't read the OP or the thread if you think that touchscreen is comparable to tablet/mouse. If I made my own "osu! keyboard" that consisted of 2 mouse wheels, where one click was just one tiny movement of the mouse wheel and I got a 1000pp play by fcing a 600bpm deathstream, that would be just as fucking stupid as touchscreen. Touchscreen isn't 1:1. It's not comparable. It IS basically cheating. The moment that gameplay isn't 1:1, it begs the question, why can't use macros to click? Macros aren't 1:1, touchscreen movement aren't 1:1, so what's the difference?

[Taiga] wrote:

I didn't wanted to state my opinion on reddit due how cancerous is that community (and this opinion could never see a daylight).

1. Touchscreens

Main difficulty to play on this device is input lag which is significantly higher than any mouse/tablet (imagine that random 5$ mouse is better at this point). By hardware, this device is not build for rapid movements and tapping at this kind of speed. Unless you are using high-end device (like Surface Pro with dedicated CPU, not ARM/Mini like Atom) this input lag just increase due that CPU needs to handle game calculation and parse touch input (which works a bit differently from CPU code point of view than external pointing device). There is a reason why many old good TS plays are with EZ mode. Having good acc on high OD exceeding 9-10 is a challenge, big one, I don't say it is impossible but for sure it is challenging.
True, but only for now. In the future the input lag will be reduced and the problem will be back. This argument is irrelevant in the big picture. Touchscreen acc won't be as hard to achieve in a few years.

[Taiga] wrote:

2. Players

Honestly, how many of them are here? 10-20? 100? 1000? Like seriously. They are a non-visible percentage of playerbase, yet enraged community for completely stupid reason wants to separate them from everyone else. Personally I don't care, at all. While literally eating popcorn, consuming energy drink and reading reddit most of this people made me laugh and facepalm a lot with idiocy of "how touchscreen players are bad" / "ban them" / "separate from playerbase". Don't come with ranking and pp because it is already inflated with imbalanced pp made by few mappers which focused on ONLY ONE skill - aim - yet you complain when someone is using a device made specifically to play an aim based map. Pointless, not gonna comment more, there is nothing to say about that. It is just hypocrisy.
I'm glad you don't care about the problem, so you can fuck right off out of this thread and continue not caring. You're ignoring the issue yet again because it's okay right now. The problem will only get worse, what will your argument be then?

[Taiga] wrote:

3. Maps, mapping

I see main problem here. What maps can handle touchscreen? Pure aim based with almost no triples / bursts. What "meta" we have now? Inflate aim pp with 30s maps. I could ask - where is balance of TV size maps which were build with pure difficulty containing aim based patterns, bursts and a little of semi-tech (flow/anti-flow) patterns? It doesn't exist now. How about I ask TS players to achieve same on for example Kuchizuke Diamond Lemur? Nope, sorry - bursts/triples/antiflow will keep them away, despite this is one of heavy overweighted maps. Daidai? Same - nope, lots of triples and burst in middle. Koigokoro? Same - nope. You get it? Before - TV size, mid/full-size maps were balanced around several skillsets and they gave either balanced amount of pp or were developed to be overweighted but in general aimed to force player to be efficient in not only one but at least 2 skills at once.

What it is right now? HaiTai, Cookie Monster (specifically map which made me quit STD), spam of Harumachi (where only one contain "bursts", god bless this one difficulty). Sorry guys but it is YOUR fault for accepting this maps. It is your fault that mappers are not punished for making such maps. YOU are supposed to notice them and veto shit out of them.

Do you think situation like that could happen when you didn't allow mappers to make 30s pure aim, extremely overweighted maps? I doubt it.
Ah yes, the old "it's da maps xd" argument. I'm going to get autism if I have to explain why pp can't be balanced to work for touchscreen and mouse/tablet. I already have given proof that short aim only maps AREN'T the "mete" right now, yet here the argument is again. Provide me some evidence that the meta is what you say it is and then put forward another argument, then I'll actually be inclined to take your points seriously. Stop blaming the 10% of players that rely on tv size jump maps for pp. 90% of players don't do that, stop blaming the players. You're just looking for a scapegoat that isn't touchscreen from what I can see.

[Taiga] wrote:

4. Ranking and competition

Short - please don't speak about ranking being competitive when right now whole idea of pp ranking is an "shooter based game with rhythm in background". Ranking was competitive till mid of 2015 where whole idea of forcing aim based maps started, where "one trick ponies" were punished and they were halted at certain point for not knowing how to read complex patterns, how to stream, how to burst, how to jump etc.

TL;DR: Personally, I don't mind touchscreen players, more, I pray for more scores like that to expose flaws of current mapping meta. Maybe players start veto this 30s-1m pure aim based overweighted maps and force mappers to make something "quality". It is not device problem - it is pure mapping problem which comes to - pure human problem. You opened doors for touchscreen players to make this scores. Deal with it.
Ranking IS competitive, if it wasn't then ANYONE could achieve top 100. The fact the it's insanely difficult to rank up is proof alone that ranking is the definition of competitive. Also your argument makes no sense. You say that aim-only players are the issue, and then talk about how it's a tragedy that 1 trick ponies aren't competitive? Where is the logic in that?

pkhg wrote:

lets suppose that 900pp score was done with a tablet+kb playstyle
would you guys be complaining?

also mapping has nothing to do with how the pp system works. there were "pp" maps even before pp existed
No.

Catgirl wrote:

agreed completely with everything in this post

the way i see the situation over time is

1 - flawed pp system ->
2 - people discover the flaws in the system ->
3 - mappers make maps to exploit those flaws ->
4 - people like those maps because pp ->
5 - mappers make more and more of them which are even more dramatically flawed ->
6 - touchscreen can be viable for unthinkable pp plays on some of these maps

and people are thinking that suddenly removing touchscreen will fix the problem, but you really need to look back as far as step 3 at minimum, or ideally back to step 1

the problem is that the game is kinda beyond fixing due to the mentality of much of the playerbase, and due to stuff like #4 the meta probably wouldn't shift at all for a long time. for example if pp was removed today, people would still map the same way because people like the mapping style. if pp never existed (or if the system was 100% perfect on release which is impossible) then there wouldn't have been a step 2 or 3, and so on

tl;dr the problem isn't touchscreen, touchscreen has the potential to amplify the problem and peoples' perception of it
What? Removing touchscreen WILL fix the problem. I've already already shown that short maps aren't the issue in competitive play. Touchscreen is the issue, the maps are the scapegoat. If pp didn't exist I would still be arguing against touchscreen, but probably at a later date, when touchscreen players get better touchscreen with less latency. Eventually touchscreen players will be able to compete on the leaderboards of maps (in fact they already can, see fool moon night). Touchscreens are overpowered at attaining high pp, and overpowered on the hardest aim maps in the game. I want to see the best plays at #1 on the leaderboards, not 50 mediocre touchscreen scores.

- Spicy Wolf - wrote:

That some nice post , as you can see in *problem chain* we just need to change pp gain from long distance jumps ;)
In my opinion there must be some distance lock for pp gain , like half of screen distance between hit circles can give you max pp gain (ofc much less than now ) , distances above it will just give same pp . Its just simple explanation of idea
I refuse the believe that this post isn't irony, so I shall ignore it.

ZethZ161 wrote:

Well, I mean people are ranting anywhere in YouTube right now, so yeah.
I probably get the wrong point here, but hey, I'm also exposing the hate on TS players, so I think that kinda fits in the forum since it's related about the disagreement from a lot of players about his score.
AND YES, pp system is broken.
People who are hating touchscreen players are in the wrong. They've been given a full pass to do what they're doing, they've done nothing "wrong" and hating on them isn't fair, I agree.

But then you finish of with "pp system is broken". No, it isn't. It's actually very good at placing players relative to eachother... excluding touchscreen players. Don't blame the system, blame the peripheral.

rakuenslove wrote:

pp system is broken?nah touchscreen wouldn't be a problem if we wouldn't have 1 minute aim only maps that were made specifically for pp, it's the playerbase fault, you literally designed maps to be played like this for your own greed and now you cry about it, start mapping and playing for the fun of a rhythm game and maps like haitai and touchscreen problems wouldnt exist
No, 90% of us didn't. But thanks for trying to blame everyone but the touschreen players for the issues that have arisen from touchscreen players.

[Taiga] wrote:

As I said, touchscreen is not a problem. It is only for people who doesn't realize fact that for example in 2015, this hardware had REALLY low amount of playable maps, there is even topic in GnR with list of playable maps for touchscreen. Whole boom started when mappers started abusing ranking criteria + pp formula and made 30s to 1m super short, pure aim based maps which are perfect for touchscreen. They went crazy with 6* less than 1 min map, like WTF? And now people are crying that touchscreen is broken.

osu! is still a rhythm game, there is great amount of good maps (look at RLC, Pishi, fanzhen, 09kami and more mappers who said "No" to pp mapping and still making amazing full size balanced maps and from semi to full tech maps) which require more than just jumping ability. Problem is in mappers who influence massive amount of pp for one particular skillset and onwards, breaking completely ranking allowing one-trick-ponies to gain way higher rank than they initially deserve.
It's nice to know that you think that only maps YOU like should be ranked. Cry some more. This game is played by hundreds of thousands of people who each like different things. No one cares that YOU don't like those maps, and no one should. I dislike tv size maps myself, but I'm not a selfish prick and I understand that some people do enjoy them. I'm not going to argue that we should punish those people by not allowing their preferred maps to get ranked, all because of a small subset of other players are abuse an overpowered peripheral.

Tag4 maps were unranked because of touchscreen too. They're very different from the genre of map that you're displeased with as possible, yet no one talks about them. Why is that? If you can't tell yet, it's because people are stupid and can't see that the issue isn't "tv size aim maps".

Manuel Bartual wrote:

Just change the ranking criteria avoid sub 1:20 maps unrank <1min maps and call it a day
Again, I'm going to ignore this post because I refuse to believe it's not ironic.

Edgar_Figaro wrote:

I think you misunderstand me. I think an FC should still be awarded, I just think that misses should be more penalized, and the combo element removed.

Just to put it in perspective, assume you are taking a math test and you teacher graded on question combo. You get every single question right on this 100 question test except the 50th question. Well sorry to say but your grade on that test is now terrible. Meanwhile other kid in your class gets first 80 questions right and then screws up 10 of the last 20. Their score is now considered better than yours. Don’t you see how asinine that is? Why should a kid that missed more problems get a better score?
This is a useless analogy, combo is the only way to measure whether someone can aim/stream the map in question. Accuracy doesn't help us determine whether someone could actually hit the jumps that give the pp. If you want to use your maths test analogy, here's a more fitting version. Imagine there are 100 maths questions of varying difficulty and length. The last 10 are incredibly difficult and only 1% of people will be able to get them correct, the other 90 are easy. Now imagine that despite the different difficulties of the questions, each one only gives 1 mark if correct. You fail 4 questions in the first 90 due to silly mistakes and get 5 of the final 10 correct. Some other kid gets the first 90 right and fails 8 of the last 10. That kid gets a better score than you.

There are only two ways to fix this analogy. Award different points per question, which isn't possible in osu! (per-note pp analysis isn't feasible afaik). The only other option is to reward people who never miss, because we can't determine where misses are located. Neither is a nice solution, it doesn't take a genius to recognize that. Per-note pp analysis would be LEAGUES ahead of combo. Sadly we don't, and probably won't ever have that. So combo is the solution we currently follow and will continue to follow.

Edgar_Figaro wrote:

Following “negative” things combo based scoring/PP causes:
1. Touchscreen with jump maps as we’ve seen here. If ACC is more valued over Combo touchscreen will be more balanced with mouse/tablet
2. Short map incentivizing. While yes long maps give more PP, it is much much easier to FC a short map than a long map due to stamina/consistency.
3. Mods are underweighted. In any competitive play, the mod play will only win if they have equal (or very close combo) to a nomod score making usage of mods usually a bad idea as the chances of a miss go up tremendously.
4. Difficulty spikes in maps. When combo is all that really matters, Maps that have insane cross-screen jumps as the final pattern while the rest was easy will still award insane PP. If # of misses was the meta, players missing here would be penalized heavily just like if they missed in the middle of the map making these sudden difficulty spike maps not as free of PP and more deserving of their SR.
1. True, but why is this the fault of the combo/pp system and not the peripheral?
2. Subjective.
3. Completely false.
4. The difficulty spikes are the reason the maps give pp, true. The difficulty spikes are harder, hence they give more pp. As already mentioned though, this style of map isn't an issue in competitive play (read above).

Edgar_Figaro wrote:

Scoring system suggestion (like Score V2 but with a twist):
1. Score cap of 1 million (just makes things cleaner, spinners could make it exceed 1 mil slightly)
2. Accuracy = 300,000 points
3. All hit objects hit = 700,000 points (each Hit object hit awards a even split amount of this 700,000 NO combo multiplier, each miss removes 5% of Hit object score but never to reduce below 0 points. Basically if you miss 20x+ you’d get nothing from the “combo” side of the score/PP)
4. Mods allow max scoring also to exceed 1 million with current multiplier system. (Since a mod like HR adds 6% score and a miss removes 5% of 70% of the score = ~ 3.5% score loss per miss, a 1x mod play will beat a nomod FC (with same ACC), but multiple misses will cause nomod score to win. This makes mod play much more viable and encouraged while not letting it overpower)

PP system will still probably need mod bonus calculated separately from score as difficulty of specific mods on maps varies.
This system makes accuracy more important on longer maps. What's the logic behind that? Someone can consistently not miss for 10k notes yet they're rewarded the same 70% as someone who fced a 10 second tv size map? This is EVEN WORSE than the old scoring system because it basically ignored length.

Kite wrote:

This is an extremely weak and lazy argument in my opinion.
I don't see how shifting the accuracy requirement to achive the same score can be seen in such a way, you are basically saying that players don't have to show any sort of effort to achieve absurd scores.
Not only that but you are vastly underestimating the effort and determination that is required to perform the same sort of play freedomdiver made but on a higher accuracy level.
It's not a matter of retrying a few times and you magically get 98%...
If the pp score freedomdiver gained from his play was equivalent to let's say at least 95% acc play then nobody would have complained, because that would be straight up WAAAY more impressive than his current play is.

My idea to this entire fiasco was to shift pp awards from plays to the higher end of the accuracy curve, speaking the 900+ pp play from freedomdiver on 78% accuracy would need at least around 90% accuracy instead. I am not sure how the current pp formula looks like but having accuracy play a more vital role, perhaps in an exponential way would work out for the better?
Another issue that I noticed is that beatmap length doesn't seem to be factored into the formula in any way.

To give my idea some visualization, I prepared a few exponential graphs to showcase how it -might- work. (note these are just quickly assembled just for the sake of presentation)



Let the x axis be accuracy going from 0 to 100% and the y axis be the overall multiplier for the pp score you are awarded for a play going from 0 to 1.0.
The red graph would be the initial function used for further calculations, for example you could adjust accuracy requirement based on draintime of a beatmap.
The green graph showcases the accuracy needed for a rather short beatmap whereas the purple graph showcases the accuracy needed for a relatively long beatmap.
It basically get's more lenient the longer the draintime is.

This idea is just a proposal without much detail, but I think it's worth considering since it might help in getting rid of problems such as overweighted (poor accuracy) performance plays.
Seeing as many top plays are also TV Size length and DT plays it would put a higher skill cap towards accuracy.

One other huge issue to me is that the only special aspect of SS (100% acc) plays is.. yes that they are SS scores. They don't have a huge enough impact to actively pursue in my opinion. Giving them an additional 5% pp on top at the end would probably make them more desireable for many people to actually play for.

TLDR:
It's not a matter of delaying the inevitable, but a matter of forcing players to perform better overall so touchscreen scores like this won't be considered cheesy by the community.
Everybody should be able to see how much of a skill difference would be required to perform the same play on higher end accuracy.

Bottomline however is that it probably isn't worth initiating any measures for this problem and just wait out until further development is finished, seeing how much more advanced pp+ is compared to the current system.
This is a very well thought out post but I think you're missing the point that peppy/tom made. Touchscreen players get bad accuracy because of latency issues, not inheritly because touchscreen is bad at acc. Solving the problem using accuracy curves is hence only a short term solution. Eventually someone will be able to do this with touchscreen and get 90%+. Do we keep shifting the threshold for receiving pp further and further back until anything less than 98% is discarded? Axarious' Kuchizuke Diamond play is only 93% acc. What happens when touchscreen players start getting 93% acc scores? Do we just throw away axarious' play, despite it being insane?

I'll say it again, touchscreen and tablet/mouse can't be compared. People need to stop trying to compare them.
posted
Meanwhile, osu!mania players dont even care xD
posted

jesse1412 wrote:

This is a very well thought out post but I think you're missing the point that peppy/tom made. Touchscreen players get bad accuracy because of latency issues, not inheritly because touchscreen is bad at acc. Solving the problem using accuracy curves is hence only a short term solution. Eventually someone will be able to do this with touchscreen and get 90%+. Do we keep shifting the threshold for receiving pp further and further back until anything less than 98% is discarded? Axarious' Kuchizuke Diamond play is only 93% acc. What happens when touchscreen players start getting 93% acc scores? Do we just throw away axarious' play, despite it being insane?

I'll say it again, touchscreen and tablet/mouse can't be compared. People need to stop trying to compare them.
I agree the playstyles are just too different to cover for both, however I don't consider the fact that touchscreen players are able to set insane scores an actual "problem". If a touchscreen player would turn up with a 90% play... that would be insane and admirable, at that point I could hardly call it problematic and the pp would be more "earned" and "deserved" than it is now. Shifting and adjusting accuracy factors would be a one-time change, but at that point it would be more about opinion and perspective I would say.
I think it would be a step in the right direction as a basic concept, and can be improved further as needed.
Your argument is valid though, since it's more of latency issue for touchscreen than actual player skill that hinders accuracy it's not really a great solution in the end but it would put the problem at hand into a more acceptable relation.
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