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Loved: Community Voting & Discussion

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Topic Starter
Toy

Dumii wrote:

A few problems I have with the current system:
- Transparency is good, but what happens when you have 1000 nominations on a map where 999/1000 nominations are from people who can't even play the map and just want Cookiezi to play it, in terms of community backlash and map selection?
- In the case that you decide to go with vetoing, isn't the number of times a map has been nominated irrelevant?

I have no problems with transparency itself, it's just that the other criteria are vague, which could lead to confusion, ie. what qualifies a map for being loved? Whilst the general premise for this is that the community loves the maps, in some cases the part of the community that loves the map isn't the part that can play the map. (Hint: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/234785 does anyone enjoy this map honestly?)

Not trying to nitpick at anything, I'd just like some more clarification on how you'd actually picked loved maps before getting my hopes up lole!!!!
At this point, maps are being selected based on # of favorites (real variable) and community appraisal (nominal). The latter is generally measured on a basis of someone active within the community (in this case myself) and their knowledge of how popular maps are.

Yes, it's vague, but the criteria have always been, because when we tried to set requirements (100kds) the system turned out worse than ever before. For the most part, it's not difficult to tell which maps are being nominated for the sake of a top player playing it and which are genuinely "loved" by a majority of the community.
Nwolf
can you maybe please update the form and mention that you only need 30 favs in osu!standard? Would reduce the amount of confusion this creates^^
Topic Starter
Toy

Nwolf wrote:

can you maybe please update the form and mention that you only need 30 favs in osu!standard? Would reduce the amount of confusion this creates^^


fixed!
7ambda
Too bad I hardly keep up with Standard beatmaps now.
Xinnoh
Will the set owners be contacted if their map is chosen for the voting stage? Some sets are in the graveyard, but the mapper might still intend to rank them. Wouldn't be good if it was suddenly in the loved section

Also, will there be more people on the team in the future? I feel having only one person choose all loved maps going to voting is kinda limiting and not representing the whole community. 2-3 per mode would make going through maps a bit easier + has a wider scope of opinions


Also, here's an excel version for the Chinese, it doesn't get updated but it gives you an idea of what is being submitted https://puu.sh/ykeYj/29277c8abe.xlsx
tatatat

Sinnoh wrote:

Will the set owners be contacted if their map is chosen for the voting stage? Some sets are in the graveyard, but the mapper might still intend to rank them. Wouldn't be good if it was suddenly in the loved section

Also, will there be more people on the team in the future? I feel having only one person choose all loved maps going to voting is kinda limiting and not representing the whole community. 2-3 per mode would make going through maps a bit easier + has a wider scope of opinions


Also, here's an excel version for the Chinese, it doesn't get updated but it gives you an idea of what is being submitted https://puu.sh/ykeYj/29277c8abe.xlsx
why wouldn't it be good? You can still ranked loved maps. but contacting them is good idea.
Wutever
just skimming over everything and holy theres alot of maps on that submission already ( i have quite a few of them myself surprisingly )
Just wondering about 2 things really.

Once maps start getting added to loved based from the spreadsheet is it going to be similar to the previous way of just however many maps once a month or is it gonna be more frequent just asking because while i understand its still very much a WIP i have no idea what its looking at especially since honestly like half that spreadsheet is love worthy based on favorites alone with many exceeding the 30 favorites bar many times over but i dont see staff just adding 100 sets to loved at once as much as i would like it to happen.

other then that any plans on having more people help? especially for std? i could see this being pretty goddamn hard to keep up with with just you handling it toy. ( is this why your not OWC USA cptn? :thinking: ) especially with life, OWC, and the other 39930 ranked maps

Edit: i just noticed theres another vote LOL i check shit almost everyday and i didnt even know wow. well i hope these votes happen very often
tatatat

When are more maps going to get pushed from the forms into the sheet? o.o
CircusGalop

Captain's Notes wrote:

Oh boy. Lots of difficulties covering from 4k all the way up to 10k. I'm not entirely sure this should be added to Loved at the current moment because it seems like CircusGalop may still be adding to it constantly?
I can't update that any more because of the 32MB upload limit. Piano .ogg files of 15 classical pieces are shared, but the .osu files of those aren't.
So I decided to include only one of each difficulties in 4K 5K 7K and to nominate own map.
Topic Starter
Toy

tatatat wrote:


When are more maps going to get pushed from the forms into the sheet? o.o
Whenever the captains for that specific mode have free time, it's currently a very WIP project
tatatat
whats going on with the mania submissions lol. some have been on the spreadsheet for over a month without being looked at.
Inue Houji

tatatat wrote:

whats going on with the mania submissions lol. some have been on the spreadsheet for over a month without being looked at.
I assume it's on hold for OWC
tatatat

Primiriko wrote:

tatatat wrote:

whats going on with the mania submissions lol. some have been on the spreadsheet for over a month without being looked at.
I assume it's on hold for OWC
Huh okay I guess.
SpectorDG
Just when censored move to loved section?! https://osu.ppy.sh/s/473410
Topic Starter
Toy

SpectorDG wrote:

Just when censored move to loved section?! https://osu.ppy.sh/s/473410


I personally dislike when a map creator pushes their own maps "For Loved", because it's counter to the process of the system. If it's good, it'll be nominated eventually. Just be patient.
Kamikaze

Toy wrote:

SpectorDG wrote:

Just when censored move to loved section?! https://osu.ppy.sh/s/473410


I personally dislike when a map creator pushes their own maps "For Loved", because it's counter to the process of the system. If it's good, it'll be nominated eventually. Just be patient.


I agree and especially if you're just trying to pressure people into putting your own maps in. Everything submitted to the spreadsheet will get it's chance.
There's hundreds of maps waiting for it, it's going to take a long time to get through everything, but that way we can truly fulfil the category's objective while not bombarding the voting with way too many maps at once.

tl;dr be patient, don't force your own maps on us, we know what to do and we only look at the submission sheet.
SpectorDG
Look, it's reason why osu!mania community is still dead

Screenshots will be come
Kamikaze
Sorry, I did not check into this thread for a week but how exactly is not promoting a map that you're trying to stick in out faces a reason for community being presumably "dead"?
That makes absolutely no sense, Loved is not for promoting your own maps because you want to, but it's for promoting quality content that did not reach ranked for some reason.

SpectorDG wrote:

Screenshots will be come
I also wonder what screenshots you're reffering to, but sure, go ahead?
SpectorDG
omg is that joke? i hopes it's alive but :V kamikaze nominating maps :V .. yeah it's dead :'(
Kamikaze
Can you please refer from personal accusations in a discussion thread? I would really appreciate it if you could just let us do our job and see what happens rather than do this. You can also join the osu!dev Discord server if you wish to want to suggest any changes.
Pope Gadget
Because you've asked so nicely, t+pazolite - CENSORED!! will be up for the vote on the next batch.
coldloops
what happened to shining collection ? it got loved but isnt anymore now.
Topic Starter
Toy

coldloops wrote:

what happened to shining collection ? it got loved but isnt anymore now.


Seems like an oversight on my part, I will get Ephemeral to add it immediately.
AncuL
I wrote an essay about my opinion of the current loved voting system at some point when i was bored. Let's just get it off my chest now

-------------

The recent update brought a different mechanic to the way voting works in the loved section, from choosing which map you want to get loved, to choosing if you want the map get loved. I think there's an issue to that.

You see, there's literally no disadvantages for a person to choose what they doubt is a good idea. Back then, we had a limitation to how many maps people can vote. This means that people needed to only choose maps that they deserve loved the most because of the limitations. This also means that having a map be loved was hard and required more exposure and "love" from players compared to other maps in the pool.

With the current one, choosing the maps you think are okay enough to get loved is fine because there isn't any other consequences from doing that. The majority of the people are able to vote all the maps mindlessly because of how it works.

why is voting even done when all the picked maps are going to be loved anyways?
Pope Gadget
We put them up because they have a sufficient backing. We don't want to waste spaces. Why is it a surprise if most, if not all of them reach the 80% requirement?

Limited votes hinders great maps in a selection above par. It's unfair if the next selection is full of maps people don't care about.

The vote is there so that it doesn't look like an authority is dictating what people like. We need numbers to confirm what we choose isn't biased garbage.
Backfire

AncuL wrote:

I wrote an essay about my opinion of the current loved voting system at some point when i was bored. Let's just get it off my chest now

-------------

The recent update brought a different mechanic to the way voting works in the loved section, from choosing which map you want to get loved, to choosing if you want the map get loved. I think there's an issue to that.

You see, there's literally no disadvantages for a person to choose what they doubt is a good idea. Back then, we had a limitation to how many maps people can vote. This means that people needed to only choose maps that they deserve loved the most because of the limitations. This also means that having a map be loved was hard and required more exposure and "love" from players compared to other maps in the pool.

With the current one, choosing the maps you think are okay enough to get loved is fine because there isn't any other consequences from doing that. The majority of the people are able to vote all the maps mindlessly because of how it works.

why is voting even done when all the picked maps are going to be loved anyways?
Hey there, I’m one of the taiko captains, so, I know the other modes don’t apply here but I generally agree, my goal is actually to make sure there is an encouragement around maps being voted no if they simply aren’t special enough. I personally increased the % goal fairly high, and we have had a fair amount of maps fail, even two rounds ago 3 out of 5 lost. Simply put, It’s important to me for taiko that it stays at a level of “exclusivity” and difficulty to pass through.

Maps themselves being put up against other maps and having to pick the “most special” dilutes the value of mapping in favor of gimmicks and such, and this system rewards you in different ways. I think it has been awesome and enjoyable for me so far. We put a lot of effort into balancing each batch of maps and such, and I cannot speak for the rest of the captains other than I discussed this all with them at length and we all agreed to different ways of putting forth our sets and presentations, which I respect, however, I don’t mind cutting things down even more if the community demands it.
Topic Starter
Toy

AncuL wrote:

I wrote an essay about my opinion of the current loved voting system at some point when i was bored. Let's just get it off my chest now

-------------

The recent update brought a different mechanic to the way voting works in the loved section, from choosing which map you want to get loved, to choosing if you want the map get loved. I think there's an issue to that.

You see, there's literally no disadvantages for a person to choose what they doubt is a good idea. Back then, we had a limitation to how many maps people can vote. This means that people needed to only choose maps that they deserve loved the most because of the limitations. This also means that having a map be loved was hard and required more exposure and "love" from players compared to other maps in the pool.

With the current one, choosing the maps you think are okay enough to get loved is fine because there isn't any other consequences from doing that. The majority of the people are able to vote all the maps mindlessly because of how it works.

why is voting even done when all the picked maps are going to be loved anyways?


Part of the issue of the previous system is that while limiting the number of maps you are able to vote on per week makes Loved category seem more of a reward, it also was highly dependent on what other maps are put up for Loved that week as well.

So imagine a map with 150 favorites is put up for vote alongside 9 500 favorite maps, it'll lose. However, if it's put up alongside 9 maps with 30 favorites, it'll win. This hypothetical 150 favorites map could be perfectly adequate for Loved (or not), but its fate is determined solely by which maps it competes against.

Also, I understand the issue that there's not much of a downside to picking "yes" versus "no", but I maps are being voted "No" to, so not everything is entering the category because the requirements are too easy, it's just that there's sooo many high quality maps that have been deserving of Loved for a long time.

The basic premise of voting is to allow the community as a whole the final choice in selecting maps for Loved. It wouldn't be a community project if the captains had final say in what enters or not.
AncuL

Toy wrote:

Part of the issue of the previous system is that while limiting the number of maps you are able to vote on per week makes Loved category seem more of a reward, it also was highly dependent on what other maps are put up for Loved that week as well.

So imagine a map with 150 favorites is put up for vote alongside 9 500 favorite maps, it'll lose. However, if it's put up alongside 9 maps with 30 favorites, it'll win. This hypothetical 150 favorites map could be perfectly adequate for Loved (or not), but its fate is determined solely by which maps it competes against.

Also, I understand the issue that there's not much of a downside to picking "yes" versus "no", but I maps are being voted "No" to, so not everything is entering the category because the requirements are too easy, it's just that there's sooo many high quality maps that have been deserving of Loved for a long time.

The basic premise of voting is to allow the community as a whole the final choice in selecting maps for Loved. It wouldn't be a community project if the captains had final say in what enters or not.
What if we add another vote in which we ask people if they want the "failed" maps to be reinserted in the next vote? this still ensures that something like what you talked about don't last for very long
Pope Gadget

AncuL wrote:

What if we add another vote in which we ask people if they want the "failed" maps to be reinserted in the next vote? this still ensures that something like what you talked about don't last for very long
Isn't part of your complaint regarding the possibility that most people 'will vote yes anyway because there's no downside to it'?
Also, this'll just congest things.
Bastionior
Grande Familia Map when xO?
i said because me(and a lot of Brasilian i guess) send a lot of times but the docs haven't updated that information(the docs has said u haven't played yet) I hope I'm not disturbing you. :thinking:
Topic Starter
Toy

Kalindraz wrote:

Grande Familia Map when xO?
i said because me(and a lot of Brasilian i guess) send a lot of times but the docs haven't updated that information(the docs has said u haven't played yet) I hope I'm not disturbing you. :thinking:


Sorry, it's difficult to keep the public document updated after I try maps/update favorite counts/add new submitted maps/label Loved maps.

Do know however, all submissions are indeed being received and looked at. Grande Familia in particular (along with the French community Poudre de Perlimpinpin map) seem to be like a big meme that I want to hold off on nomination. It's difficult to tell whether it's something the community at large would want Loved, or if it's simply a circlejerk within a small dedicated community.
AncuL

Pope Gadget wrote:

Isn't part of your complaint regarding the possibility that most people 'will vote yes anyway because there's no downside to it'?
Also, this'll just congest things.
I'm taking about reverting to the original system and adding this mechanism, rather than improving the current one
And i don't know about the congestion things but okay
Topic Starter
Toy

AncuL wrote:

What if we add another vote in which we ask people if they want the "failed" maps to be reinserted in the next vote? this still ensures that something like what you talked about don't last for very long


This would fix the issue of maps still getting a chance, but wouldn't it just make the process slower? Like, if people want a map Loved, then it should be Loved, this just makes it so less maps get in each week it feels.
tatatat
is there going to be some time that favorite counts are updated? I think checking up on active community feedback is important. some maps were submitted 3 months ago. My map's favorites has increased by 50% since when it was initially nominated, and I've checked other maps, and I've seen some other map's favorites have increased considerably too. Or maybe updating favorite counts upon another nomination. idk :p
Topic Starter
Toy

tatatat wrote:

is there going to be some time that favorite counts are updated? I think checking up on active community feedback is important. some maps were submitted 3 months ago. My map's favorites has increased by 50% since when it was initially nominated, and I've checked other maps, and I've seen some other map's favorites have increased considerably too. Or maybe updating favorite counts upon another nomination. idk :p


Every time I get a duplicate submission in the google form, I update favorite count.
tatatat

Toy wrote:

tatatat wrote:

is there going to be some time that favorite counts are updated? I think checking up on active community feedback is important. some maps were submitted 3 months ago. My map's favorites has increased by 50% since when it was initially nominated, and I've checked other maps, and I've seen some other map's favorites have increased considerably too. Or maybe updating favorite counts upon another nomination. idk :p
Every time I get a duplicate submission in the google form, I update favorite count.
that makes sense, okay c:
Vulkin
Is it possible for people to get a PM telling them "Your Beatmap is currently going in the process of loved" for when the beatmap appears in the google docks? imo appearing out of nowhere at the voting stage is too late during the process imo.
Jole

Vulkin wrote:

Is it possible for people to get a PM telling them "Your Beatmap is currently going in the process of loved" for when the beatmap appears in the google docks? imo appearing out of nowhere at the voting stage is too late during the process imo.


I completely agree. Previously I've had something loved while literally having no idea because I wasn't informed about it at all. It's not a good thing if you'd like to make changes before it gets loved
benqbenq
What if the number of my map's favorites on the spreadsheet is wrong? Is it gonna be updated?
Mismagius
I believe it gets updated everytime the map is submitted to the spreadsheet by another person (manually updated by Toy, mind you)
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