applied arrival's mod at v2

https://kinobles.s-ul.eu/QU9FsRrU.osu

Just wanna mention, there were barely any mods on Kantan - Muzukashii, and the ones who DID mod it, are part of the set. I think it says somewhere in the rules, that you can't have your own guests mod your other diff spreads? Is that not collusion?

I believe this is a big reason that this needs to be re-evaluated.

There is something I want to address:

The spread is a bit unbalanced and could be improved. The Muzukashi's density lacks consistency compared to hikiko's Oni. It would help if the opening of the Muzukashii wasn't so empty, this may also help an issue regarding how hikiko's Oni has twice as many objects as the Muzukashii. Regardless I think either a few elements should be either removed or added to their respective difficulties.

Dargin wrote:

There is something I want to address:

The spread is a bit unbalanced and could be improved. The Muzukashi's density lacks consistency compared to hikiko's Oni. It would help if the opening of the Muzukashii wasn't so empty, this may also help an issue regarding how hikiko's Oni has twice as many objects as the Muzukashii. Regardless I think either a few elements should be either removed or added to their respective difficulties.

bonus:


the introductions of k/f/m are nearly identical, and then have a massive density jump. there should be some form of increase as you go up in difficulty level.

Lookin at TK's Inner.

Why this map gotta feel like it's trying specifically NOT follow the song. When you avoid mapping the actual melody like 00:46:412 - / 00:54:866 - / 01:25:821 - but map things that aren't even close to being there like 00:50:844 (56) - the map becomes confusing and frustrating to players. I understand "improv life br0" but this just isn't needed at all, especially when you have difficulties that make sense 100% of the time literally right above your diff.

Lookin at the spread between the Muzu and the Hiki's Oni.

00:07:275 (6,7) - First off, why are these not K like the Futsuu? Is there any reason for them to not be consistent? Even in MM's Inner Oni they're K's, it's just kind of illogical.
Yeah, the gap in the beginning between the Muzu and Hiki's Oni is just ridiculous, there's not even so much of a thought of making a smooth transition from literally nothing being mapped to almost everything being mapped, and that just shouldn't be a thing.

Lookin at the rest of the diffs.

Full set: 180 -> 252 (+72) -> 396 (+144) -> 695 (+299) -> 817 (+123) -> 840 (+33) -> 932 (+92)

Two major gaps are between the Muzu and the Hiki's Oni, and then between Kinomi's Oni and MM's Inner Oni. I suspect the Muzu gap is due to the lack of a mapped intro, and sparse use of triples due to the high bpm, which could only mean that the Muzu should have a mapped into and the Hiki's Oni should reduce the amount of triples and fivles. I would recommend removing such instances in the Hiki's Oni like 01:33:457 - which could be represented as well with a kkd.

For the gap between Kinomi's Oni and MM's Inner Oni, I would believe the culprits to be the excessive use of fivlets (ex. 00:58:821 - / 01:29:094 - ) and unexpected septlets (ex. 00:50:912 - / 01:31:412 - ) .

Major inconsistencies in the really large hits that have just not reason for being different, there's 3 ways the hits at 00:08:912 - are mapped, D D D, D D K and D K D. Why though?

Multiple people have pointed out solid evidence of this set not being ready for rank, so t hat's also a considerable factor in deciding whether or not disqualification is necessary.

Noffy wrote:

Dargin wrote:

There is something I want to address:

The spread is a bit unbalanced and could be improved. The Muzukashi's density lacks consistency compared to hikiko's Oni. It would help if the opening of the Muzukashii wasn't so empty, this may also help an issue regarding how hikiko's Oni has twice as many objects as the Muzukashii. Regardless I think either a few elements should be either removed or added to their respective difficulties.

bonus:


the introductions of k/f/m are nearly identical, and then have a massive density jump. there should be some form of increase as you go up in difficulty level.

It's not necessary to have density increase on every single section of the map, especially for an intro. I only want to map the finishers on Futsuu and Muzu and that's fine. I make up for spread in other sections. In any case, if you want to comment, please use moddingv2

Also, for those who are here trying to defend Taikocracy, we already made peace more or less. Please stop comparing my set to his and causing either of us more drama. I appreciate your concerns, but if they are fueled by a desire to get my set dq'ed, then you are doing something wrong, and not following the Code of Conduct either. We will get to your concerns, don't worry. In any case, please stop cluttering the forums, this mapset was nominated through moddingv2, please go there instead so we can better communicate our concerns.

Monstrata wrote:

It's not necessary to have density increase on every single section of the map, especially for an intro. I only want to map the finishers on Futsuu and Muzu and that's fine. I make up for spread in other sections. In any case, if you want to comment, please use moddingv2

I personally dislike the modding v2 so i'd prefer to mod in v1.
(you specifically gave a thread link to mod in v1 in the map description..)

Regardless of the lack of density in the beginning of the muzukashii. The density is inconsistent and it's too far off from the Oni to be rankable in my opinion. I am not saying to change the whole map, I am stating that I believe some parts could be made more dense (of your choice), OR the Oni could have a few things removed to balance out the spread. While the star rating looks like it's even, it's not a reliable factor to use when judging spread.

I also agree with what Noffy replied with stating that the jump in density is completely random and I agree that it is a problem that should be taken a second look at.

going to take a neutral stance on this, i'm not exactly a big fan of the commotion here myself, zzz

i do see that there can be a slight spread issue, but i mean if it can be rationally defended might as well leave it alone, and if y'all can't decide then let a qat decide

like chromoxx, i don't really want to be a part of this drama too much, kind of unnecessary and over the top for a 1:50 song lmao

edit 1: changed mind as well to might as well oops
edit 2: modding v2 please, the map is on v2 after all zzz

Monstrata wrote:

In any case, please stop cluttering the forums, this mapset was nominated through moddingv2, please go there instead so we can better communicate our concerns.

I had posted about this prior in the v2 thread as well, I just found the forum to be more friendly for embedding the images neccessary to convey what I am seeing. (i dont like mv2)

the difference in notes between muzu and oni might raise some concerns, but this boils down to a few reasons and doesn‘t really turn out to be a problem.

1. the intro being mapped only to the finishers: it‘s a very short section of the song and mapping it like this is adequate for both futsuu and muzu so i don‘t really see any problem here. Mapping it calmly or strongly is more a matter of style than spread here.

2. the muzu is mapped progressively: since the song is pretty repetitive, progressive mapping is used as a variety concept. The second kiai is harder than the first, which lets the overall difficulty of the map spread well with the oni even though the first kiai is lacking some notes in comparison. Kantan-Muzu all follow this concept and the change in the oni diff is just up to personal style and doesn‘t make a significant difference spread wise when considering the entire difficulty, not just sections of the map. This is pretty important when it comes to sets involving GDs, since it gives people he freedom to map in their own style and not forcefully overconform to the other difficulties.

3. the oni in itsself is pretty easy. It uses only very simple patterns and no longer streams so when looking at the second kiai of the muzu the overall difference in difficulty is more than close enough.

Nifty wrote:

Lookin at TK's Inner.

Why this map gotta feel like it's trying specifically NOT follow the song. When you avoid mapping the actual melody like 00:46:412 - / 00:54:866 - / 01:25:821 - but map things that aren't even close to being there like 00:50:844 (56) - the map becomes confusing and frustrating to players. I understand "improv life br0" but this just isn't needed at all, especially when you have difficulties that make sense 100% of the time literally right above your diff.

In the case of this difficulty, in the sections you point out, the melody is represented fairly. Not exactly to the point, but fairly. The only note not represented in the melody is here 00:46:412 (or in between this gap in every other pattern you point out, they are all structurally the same.) Nothing from the actual rhythm of the song (snares, kicks) is left out, leaving TKS with the opportunity to fill in gaps creatively. He also does this with structure and consistency throughout the whole map in each section you mentioned. You have the right to say it doesn't play well, but your approach is not helping.

r u guys really wantting to throw down

MMzz wrote:

Nothing from the actual rhythm of the song (snares, kicks) is left out, leaving TKS with the opportunity to fill in gaps creatively.

It's not hard to not map the actual rhythm when you only have 4 1/4 gaps in a 2 bar phrase of the song. Filling in almost every single gap may be creative, but it's creative overmapping.

Backfire wrote:

r u guys really wantting to throw down

No please, leave us alone Bobby Flay

Why are you just speedranking this? To say you mapped taiko? To prove a point? You don't care about the taiko mapping/modding community at all. You do absolutely nothing to contribute to the community. I trust in your dedication to osu! standard, but why are you treating your important position in the community as a joke? You're supposed to be a person that newer mappers and modders can come to for advice, not a bubble buddy for your friends to rank their maps. Come on. What are you doing. Why are you still a taiko BN? Why are you a CTB BN? Is it just so that you can push multi-mode maps for ranked? Good I guess? Good for the "mini-game" gamemodes to get some exposure, but your only outlet for pushing multimode maps is through osu! standard. Please dedicate more effort to bettering the taiko modding community or just leave, Monstrata.

tatatat wrote:

Why are you just speedranking this? To say you mapped taiko? To prove a point? You don't care about the taiko mapping/modding community at all. You do absolutely nothing to contribute to the community. I trust in your dedication to osu! standard, but why are you treating your important position in the community as a joke? You're supposed to be a person that newer mappers and modders can come to for advice, not a bubble buddy for your friends to rank their maps. Come on. What are you doing. Why are you still a taiko BN? Why are you a CTB BN? Is it just so that you can push multi-mode maps for ranked? Good I guess? Good for the "mini-game" gamemodes to get some exposure, but your only outlet for pushing multimode maps is through osu! standard. Please dedicate more effort to bettering the taiko modding community or just leave, Monstrata.

Please refer to the Code of Conduct.

Throwing insults at a mapper is absolutely uncalled for and is a detriment to the taiko modding community.

Monstrata wrote:

tatatat wrote:

Why are you just speedranking your garbage? To say you mapped taiko? To prove a point? You're only going to get more shit for this. You get so much shit because you don't care about the taiko mapping/modding community at all. You're just a taiko BN to bubble your friend's maps. You do absolutely nothing to contribute to the community. I trust in your dedication to osu! standard, but why are you treating your important position in the community as a joke? You're supposed to be a person that newer mappers and modders can come to for advice, not a bubble buddy for your friends to rank their maps. Come on. What are you doing. Why are you still a taiko BN? Why are you a CTB BN? Is it just so that you can push multi-mode maps for ranked? Good I guess? Good for the "mini-game" gamemodes to get some exposure, but your only outlet for pushing multimode maps is through osu! standard. Please dedicate more effort to bettering the taiko modding community or just leave, Monstrata.

Please refer to the Code of Conduct.

Throwing insults at a mapper is absolutely uncalled for and is a detriment to the taiko modding community.

I'm not insulting you. I'm asking you to dedicate more effort to better the community. Care about your job, or nobody is ever going to take you seriously. I'm done here. If I can't get you to understand why people are mad at you, and why you should invest more time into being a good taiko BN, probably nobody can.

Yes sir.

BillyH.png

Surono wrote:

BillyH.png

I will not tolerate this bullying.

oh boy

OzzyOzrock wrote:

oh boy

woah ozzy you got a new avatar
same grill, but SLEEK art

Nifty wrote:

Lookin at TK's Inner.

Why this map gotta feel like it's trying specifically NOT follow the song. When you avoid mapping the actual melody like 00:46:412 - / 00:54:866 - / 01:25:821 - but map things that aren't even close to being there like 00:50:844 (56) - the map becomes confusing and frustrating to players. I understand "improv life br0" but this just isn't needed at all, especially when you have difficulties that make sense 100% of the time literally right above your diff.

intentionally breaking the rhythm of a song is required skill as a taiko mapper because we cant express our personality enough unlike std mode. if i should follow the song specifically, first of all im going to remove these 2 notes 00:00:321 (2,3) - then add any notes here 00:01:003 - and many more. dont you think this is a barren discussion? im sorry if im saying too directly or impolitely but i think you must learn more about taiko mapping tbh.

TKS wrote:

Nifty wrote:

Lookin at TK's Inner.

Why this map gotta feel like it's trying specifically NOT follow the song. When you avoid mapping the actual melody like 00:46:412 - / 00:54:866 - / 01:25:821 - but map things that aren't even close to being there like 00:50:844 (56) - the map becomes confusing and frustrating to players. I understand "improv life br0" but this just isn't needed at all, especially when you have difficulties that make sense 100% of the time literally right above your diff.

intentionally breaking the rhythm of a song is required skill as a taiko mapper because we cant express our personality enough unlike std mode. if i should follow the song specifically, first of all im going to remove these 2 notes 00:00:321 (2,3) - then add any notes here 00:01:003 - and many more. dont you think this is a barren discussion? im sorry if im saying too directly or impolitely but i think you must learn more about taiko mapping tbh.

Do I need to learn about taiko mapping? Because I believe everything he is saying is correct. Your diff needs work.

dam dis thred is :fire:

Backfire wrote:

Do I need to learn about taiko mapping? Because I believe everything he is saying is correct. Your diff needs work.

you have enough taiko mapping skills i know. you just need to learn manners lol
btw i dont know why haters post any comment here before mod in v2

TKS wrote:

Backfire wrote:

Do I need to learn about taiko mapping? Because I believe everything he is saying is correct. Your diff needs work.

you have enough taiko mapping skills i know. you just need to learn manners lol
btw i dont know why haters post any comment here before mod in v2

What are you even talking about by manners dude? You literally insulted Nifty. Don't talk to me about manners.

Backfire wrote:

What are you even talking about by manners dude? You literally insulted Nifty. Don't talk to me about manners.

oh sorry i didnt insult him, makes no sense this sentence "im sorry if im saying too directly or impolitely"?
english is so hard for me so plase talk in japanese. thanks!

Sorry for the misunderstanding

how do you nerds even post here, channel suggestions towards moddingv2 because that's the modus operandi of this mapset

Hello, I think there still exist spread issues in lower difficulties especially the difficulty curve among Kantan and Futsuu.

• [Futsuu]

1. From 00:17:639 to 00:26:366 - The note density here is too close to Mid's Kantan and the gap with Muzukashii is rather huge as Futsuu rarely uses 1/2 patterns. I would recommend adding d at 00:19:957 - 00:20:094 - 00:24:321 - 00:24:457 - to strike a balance.
2. 00:31:548 and 00:33:321 - you may add k and d respectively considering how extensive 1/2 patterns are used in Muzukashii.
3. From 00:46:003 to 01:03:457 - similar problem occurs in the kiai where pattern snaps are mostly 1/1. I think you should try to use more 1/2 notes for better difficulty progression. For example, you may add d and k respectively at 00:47:639 - 00:48:048 - , then add d at 00:52:003 - 00:52:412 - and change 00:52:548 (9) - to k. The same applies to the second half of this kiai.
4. 01:11:366 - 01:11:503 - 01:11:639 - you may want to add notes at this spot, which could be coloured as k k d to catch up the density of Muzukashii here.
5. From 01:25:275 to 01:42:730 - same suggestions as the first kiai while extra 1/2 patterns could be featured like adding k at 01:35:775 and 01:40:139 - as Muzukashii becomes denser here as the difficulty spike.
6. Additions like 01:48:457 - d and 01:48:730 - 01:49:003 - 01:49:139 - k would work for a more balanced spread as well since Muzukashii becomes harder all of a sudden at the end of the map.

The above are the minimal points focusing on Futsuu to improve the density transition from Kantan to Muzukashii by reducing the gap with Muzukashii. I am willing to provide additional modding to follow through if you want.