Came here to say mashing 6* maps is lyfe

TBH while I don't agree that Rythmn is worthless in Standard. I think aim should be altered to penalize more like misses in Taiko.

If you miss at the dead center of the map in STD and SS the rest of the map your score is practically worthless. Yet the same score where you miss at the end of the song is still worth a lot, both scenarios have a player screwing up 1 time and both have them playing perfectly the rest of the map. So why should 1 score be better than the other?

Taiko basically reduces PP for each miss and has a combo score system that stops increasing at 100x. This means that consistency while is definitely important, means that a single miss won't make the play worthless. I think if Standard removed "combo" from being the important factor and instead penalized based on misses it would go a lot more towards balancing rythmn with aim.

haha butthurt op

Edgar_Figaro wrote:

If you miss at the dead center of the map in STD and SS the rest of the map your score is practically worthless. Yet the same score where you miss at the end of the song is still worth a lot, both scenarios have a player screwing up 1 time and both have them playing perfectly the rest of the map. So why should 1 score be better than the other?

Taiko basically reduces PP for each miss and has a combo score system that stops increasing at 100x. This means that consistency while is definitely important, means that a single miss won't make the play worthless. I think if Standard removed "combo" from being the important factor and instead penalized based on misses it would go a lot more towards balancing rythmn with aim.

The one person who actually understands what I'm talking about. Thank God. If not for this post I would have lost my sanity trying to deal with this community's ridiculous pile-on in my absence. The entire reason I've been talking about aim being overweighted is mainly due to combo, because it is far and away the primary reason for a combo break over being off rhythm, and only secondarily due to an inbalance of pp weighting. You'd think I would have made it very clear that this was my primary point considering how I said the word combo about a million times but apparently not. Everyone wants to argue about my secondary point and completely ignores the main point in the process.

For anyone else who didn't get it: I'm trying to talk about why osu!std is so heavily COMBO based. The COMBO system is the fundamental issue.

Maybe I should rename this post to "welcome to osu!, the forum based community where nobody can read".

Endaris wrote:

In any case, you're completely exaggerating your point. Accuracy is not worthless. That is obvious.

No shit, really? I had no idea at all that my post title was hyperbole designed to attract attention and/or a joke themed around the video I posted.

Thank you for clarifying that for me.

Endaris wrote:

Aim is a key component of osu!standard. The arrangement of the note (ideally) serves as an additional layer of expression and is in many cases strongly tied to rhythm as well. This might not be relevant for pp-meta maps but for more complex maps that are actually not mapped with pp in mind, having a good rhythm sense will greatly help you with reading and therefore also with aiming.

I said worthless, not irrelevant. Obviously aim is relevant to mapping.

I'm talking about pp and score, but I think you already knew that judging by your third sentence so I won't ride your ass.

Endaris wrote:

If you want to say that ppv2 is broken then the answer is yes and if you say that the mapping meta is strongly effected by ppv2, none would disagree.

Thank you for your minor agreement.

B1rd wrote:

I don't need to refute you, because reality already refutes you

If you've been reduced to obvious baseless masturbation, do me a favor and do it somewhere else. I'm not interested.

M3ATL0V3R wrote:

Stream maps require little to no aim

Are you joking? Streaming requires very precise and consistent aim. It just doesn't have jumps.

M3ATL0V3R wrote:

a 1000pp choke by cookiezi was a stream map. A 1000pp map that was largely aim would be impossible

A choke, you say? What makes a choke? Oh yeah, a combo break. Hmm.

M3ATL0V3R wrote:

HD requires no increase in aim

Personally, aim is the sole reason HD is difficult for me, but maybe it is different for someone with more practice with the mod than me. I disagree but won't claim my disagreement is objective.

M3ATL0V3R wrote:

Longer maps require better rhythm sense and give more pp with the same peak difficulty.

Longer maps mostly require more consistent aim to avoid a combo break.

All your other points give me the impression you read the title and started writing.

M3ATL0V3R wrote:

Emersyne wrote:

: Ming3012, a highly talented player who sandbags their accuracy as much as possible for the lulz

Umm you realize he is has a pretty decent playtime for his rank. His low acc play style is not broken so this point is invalid

Emersyne wrote:

You mean, there's a fair difference between "someone who played the map almost perfectly, and someone who sandbagged the map

Don't underestimate the skill required to set his scores. They are low acc but good luck setting the same scores

Do you think I don't know that Ming could easily 99% all their low acc maps if they wanted to? Do you understand what the word "sandbag" means?

M3ATL0V3R wrote:

assume aim = 5 and accuracy = 1 and you can only increase aim or accuracy by 1 point.

If you train acc

PP = 5 x 2 = 10

If you train aim

PP = 6 x 1 = 6

Very interesting analogy albeit one I find extremely inaccurate due to how you set it up. Tell you what, though - I've used a similar analogy to communicate my point, with one small change:

Take away a point from your worse skill for a mistake instead of giving a point for training.

If you stumble on acc:

PP = 4 x 1 = 4

If you stumble on aim:

PP = 5 x 0 = 0

Hopefully this makes my objection much more clear.

M3ATL0V3R wrote:

Emersyne wrote:

How many great accuracy plays are you not seeing because there's a combo break in there somewhere?

Combo breaks are effected by both lack of aim or lack of rhythm sense

They are far and away more affected by aim. I don't see how you could possibly dispute this. A 0 from lack of timing is far, far less common than a 0 from a miss.

Emersyne wrote:

Here we have a top 50 player who plays touchscreen. They are rank #49, with a paltry 90% accuracy. This in itself presents an extremely compelling argument to play touchscreen - sacrifice pretty much all rhythm precision to drastically increase the proficiency of your aim.

M3ATL0V3R wrote:

Its more about how pp is calculated. Cross screen jumps are less about aim when you are playing touchscreen and are over weighted for that play style. There needs to be a separate pp system for touch screen but this does not mean rhythm is worthless as you say.

You're entirely correct that jumps are overweighted, though that isn't my main issue. However, I absolutely believe that osu! should be input device agnostic and that the scoring and ranking system should reflect that. There is no reason to limit the concept of the game or put legitimate players in a scoring ghetto.

And now, the creme de la creme:


I know you wrote this to try to make me angry, but honestly, this is my favorite post of yours, because it is just an absolutely perfect indictment of your terrible character as a human being. This post has absolved me of ever taking you seriously again, because in your attempt to tear me down, you showed that you not only completely failed to understand what I wrote in any way, but are yourself guilty of all your accusations.

Here's a play by play breakdown:

[Taiga] wrote:

> touchscreen shitstorm
> pointing out players
> calling touchscreen players a "cheaters"

Nothing more to add, I guess just calling touchscreen players a "cheaters" would be reason to silence you and burn this topic alive into oblivion.

I don't know how you think I am "calling out" touchscreen players or even trying to denigrate them at all. Did you somehow miss this part?

Emersyne wrote:

This isn't meant to be taken as an indictment of touchscreen in any way - I think that their acheivement is incredibly cool

How did you possibly mistake this:

Emersyne wrote:

But hey, let's forget touchscreen for a moment. Those guys are basically cheaters anyway, this is a mouse and tablet game right?

for anything other than blatant sarcasm? It's completely inconsistent with every other part of my post. Oh yeah, it's because you're chock full of piss and vinegar and totally short on anything resembling adult level reading comprehension.

In fact, I will go as far as to post a private message I sent to freedomdiver the day before I wrote the OP just to show how completely wrong you are about my attitude towards touchscreen players:



That's right, I have "mad respect" for someone you somehow think I am actually calling a cheater.

Next, you accuse me of being uneducated about the game...

[Taiga] wrote:

> complete lack of basics in term of game mechanic and formulas
> complete lack of knowledge about the game itself

...but I'm better at the game than you are! And even then, you've dismissed me earlier as a "farmer", but wouldn't that just illustrate the fact that I have to understand how the system works in order to exploit it? Which one is it? Does it flip flop depending on which side of the bed you wake up on?

[Taiga] wrote:

> complete lack of knowledge about players (placing MinG into low acc players while he was shooting 99% acc scores in OWC......)

> again, a complete lack of any reading comprehension

Emersyne wrote:

Ming3012, a highly talented player who sandbags their accuracy as much as possible for the lulz

Do you know what the word "sandbag" means? I'll save you and M3ATLOVER the legwork and post the definition right here:

Urban Dictionary wrote:

sandbag: When a player in any game chooses (on purpose) to not play their best.

Do you seriously think that I don't understand that Ming is just playing Johnny-style to make a statement?

[Taiga] wrote:

By this stupid "mouse/tablet" ideology and twisted logic out of ass, mouse only players can call keyboard unfair, m+k tablet, rubberdome keyboard user can call mechanical keyboard unfair etc etc etc.

Again, you didn't actually bother reading my post, or have any understanding of the touchscreen metagame. The people who are the best touchscreen players in the world are the main people who call it unfair. Read their profile pages like I suggested.

And finally...

[Taiga] wrote:

Welcome to thread of shitstorm, insults and lack of any logic.

I see. And who is the sole person in this thread that makes this a fundamental portion of anything they post, ever?

[Taiga] wrote:

If you had few working braincells
This whole shit is just "cry me a river" from another butthurt kid who follow /r/osucancer ts hate like a sheep without brain
Cut this shit out, nobody fucking care, it is just pointless drama made by someone uneducated and bored with his entire life

That moment when you did something and then went on to complain about people doing that, and nobody else did. Great job.

In short, re-evaluate your life and the decision-making that led you to making this potato quality post.

I don't know how you think I am "calling out" touchscreen players or even trying to denigrate them at all. Did you somehow miss this part?

Read again, trying to hide your butthurt towards touchscreen players with sweet words and licking ass doesn't really work.

It's completely inconsistent with every other part of my post. Oh yeah, it's because you're chock full of piss and vinegar and totally short on anything resembling adult level reading comprehension.

When you expect an adult level of discussion, make it consistent with proper arguments. You made non.

...but I'm better at the game than you are! And even then, you've dismissed me earlier as a "farmer", but wouldn't that just illustrate the fact that I have to understand how the system works in order to exploit it? Which one is it? Does it flip flop depending on which side of the bed you wake up on?

At current state, rank doesn't make anyone better or worse, deal with this. You can thank to people like monstrata and c.o. Back to 2014, ranking was more relevant, right now it's just "bragging aspect for kids". Just the fact you try to bring argument like "I'm better than you" makes you look stupid and not worth any further discussion.

And no, playing short overweighted maps is not an "exploiting system". Mappers are exploiting pp formula, you just use their maps to gain way too big amount of pp in comparison to spent effort.

for anything other than blatant sarcasm?

Sarcasm in written word... you really need to read some books, you will understand how to actually build sarcastic written sentences.

That moment when you did something and then went on to complain about people doing that, and nobody else did. Great job.

In short, re-evaluate your life and the decision-making that led you to making this potato quality post.

cba to take you out of your mistake, aint have time for someone who is trying to defend his garbage post.

As I said, stay low and cry.
EoT for me.

winber1 wrote:

haha butthurt op

this guys knows

so according to my personal experience if I had much higher acc on my top plays i would be atleast 4 digit now

Edgar_Figaro wrote:

If you miss at the dead center of the map in STD and SS the rest of the map your score is practically worthless. Yet the same score where you miss at the end of the song is still worth a lot, both scenarios have a player screwing up 1 time and both have them playing perfectly the rest of the map. So why should 1 score be better than the other?

The reason is because missing at the end or start of the map shows you can complete a combo of the maps length without choking. Choking in the middle shows you are only able to complete a combo of half the maps length. The first player is obviously a better player and deserves more pp.

Emersyne wrote:

Very interesting analogy albeit one I find extremely inaccurate due to how you set it up

Why is it inaccurate

Emersyne wrote:

Maybe I should rename this post to "welcome to osu!, the forum based community where nobody can read".

Yup its definitely everybody else's fault that they cant understand you, right?

Emersyne wrote:

No shit, really? I had no idea at all that my post title was hyperbole designed to attract attention and/or a joke themed around the video I posted.

Well I don't see how the "designed" hyperbole is working in your favor. To me it seems like you are trying to project your own insecurities and taking out your frustrations on others. If you actually wanted a meaningful discussion you wouldn't exaggerate and try to incite an emotional response from others. You call it a joke to backwards rationalize your actions.

Emersyne wrote:

Are you joking? Streaming requires very precise and consistent aim. It just doesn't have jumps.

It requires rhythm sense and reading much more than aim. Cursor movement is far slower, to the degree it is almost nothing compared to jumps of the same difficulty. Getting the cursor where it needs for streams to be is very independent of the players physical ability to move their cursor. This is why many jump heavy players have problems with streams. I don't mean to be rude but you cant really talk about what streams require because you have almost entirely short jumpy DT scores in your top plays.

Emersyne wrote:

Personally, aim is the sole reason HD is difficult for me,

No its reading that makes HD difficult. The aim required is the same. I think you are confused on what aim is, it is only about the ability to manipulate the cursor, nothing else. Reading is knowing where everything is which is the only factor that hidden changes.

Emersyne wrote:

All your other points give me the impression you read the title and started writing.

I don't understand how you came to that conclusion, explain or dismiss this.

Emersyne wrote:

Do you think I don't know that Ming could easily 99% all their low acc maps if they wanted to? Do you understand what the word "sandbag" means?

The point was his play style gives no advantage and his scores are hard to get. Sandbagging means to make no effort, yet the scores in itself don't show he made no effort. I didn't misunderstand you, you made up your own misunderstanding all by yourself and it looks like you have a habit of doing this.

Emersyne wrote:

Take away a point from your worse skill for a mistake instead of giving a point for training.

If you stumble on acc:

PP = 4 x 1 = 4

If you stumble on aim:

PP = 5 x 0 = 0

Hopefully this makes my objection much more clear.

No you are not clear, no one has zero aim and gets zero pp. Also no one chokes a map and always gets zero pp. This is a big picture analogy which takes into account multiple tries at a map to determine a players pp/skill level. Chokes have no effect here. Try again

Emersyne wrote:

They are far and away more affected by aim. I don't see how you could possibly dispute this. A 0 from lack of timing is far, far less common than a 0 from a miss.

Why are you assuming that I would disagree that they are more affected by aim? I was just pointing out both are relevant. It is especially the case for streams, misreading the rhythm makes you over or under stream which is a vast majority of stream chokes since cursor placement is dependent on where you perceive yourself in the rhythm and how you read the rhythm.

However to say they are WAY more affected is false. You look at chokes as evidence but don't think of the long term big picture which is evident in your reply to the training point I made. You remind me of the people who say elo hell exists, they make the exact same mistake and give an example where their teammates brought them down, they played perfectly and jump to the conclusion that their rank is being held down and the system is broken. They are clueless to the fact that over many games the only constant is them and so that rank is NOT a meaningless reflection of skill. The same goes for chokes, If you play enough games the reason why you choke is a reflection of your lack in skill.

Emersyne wrote:

For anyone else who didn't get it: I'm trying to talk about why osu!std is so heavily COMBO based. The COMBO system is the fundamental issue.

It would probably be a good idea to explain why its a fundamental issue for you. I don't think you have explained this at all.

Admit it you choked a farm map in the middle of it and you're now salty lmao

admit ur mad at a game about clicking circles lmao

winber1 wrote:

admit ur mad at a game about clicking circles lmao

I like your avatar

this man is a score v2 man

I kinda like combo. Keeps the suspense real throughout the maps. osu!tournaments are sort of like tightrope walking tournaments, and that's what makes watching tournaments so fun. So I'm in favour of keeping combo as a main factor in score and PP.

Oh, someone complaining about touchscreen players and how accuracy is counted in the pp system.

Just so you know, touchscreen is actually really hard, having a good acc is impossible without tryharding.
If you have an Android phone / tablet, try it out. https://itdelatrisu.github.io/opsu/

Though, just look at the pp for a 99% FC, you'll see it's a lot more compared to 60% FCs.

FruityEnLoops wrote:

Oh, someone complaining about touchscreen players and how accuracy is counted in the pp system.

Just so you know, touchscreen is actually really hard, having a good acc is impossible without tryharding.
If you have an Android phone / tablet, try it out. https://itdelatrisu.github.io/opsu/

Though, just look at the pp for a 99% FC, you'll see it's a lot more compared to 60% FCs.

You have to read his words, not just his tone. He clearly said "This isn't meant to be taken as an indictment of touchscreen in any way - I think that their acheivement is incredibly cool" in the first post. He isn't complaining about TS players, he's complaining about the PP system, and talks about TS as a way of illustrating what he thinks is wrong with the PP system.

Mio Winter wrote:

You have to read his words, not just his tone. He clearly said "This isn't meant to be taken as an indictment of touchscreen in any way - I think that their acheivement is incredibly cool" in the first post. He isn't complaining about TS players, he's complaining about the PP system, and talks about TS as a way of illustrating what he thinks is wrong with the PP system.

There is one problem - as far as he try to cover his shit with "This isn't meant to be taken as an indictment of touchscreen in any way - I think that their acheivement is incredibly cool", this will never work because whole content of his speech have negative passive-aggressive undertone.

What he done have a name: hypocrisy.

1. He point out players in term of example of "how bad touchscreen plays are and how much pp they give" <--- clear offensive stance towards certain player and his playstyle
2. He called touchscreen players a cheaters - No, there is no sarcasm in how he expressed this taking into consideration how he formed his speech.

Smart person could handle this topic by:
- avoiding players at all in initial discussion
- showing examples of scores for BOTH sides - low acc and high acc one (because pointing out only one argument leave you extremely insecure)
- avoiding ANY problematic sentences which can easily be turned against you
etc.
just school basics of how to start a proper discussion.

Mio Winter wrote:

I kinda like combo. Keeps the suspense real throughout the maps. osu!tournaments are sort of like tightrope walking tournaments, and that's what makes watching tournaments so fun. So I'm in favour of keeping combo as a main factor in score and PP.

Try watching a mania tournament.



As for everyone else, continuing this thread is a complete waste of my time. Interacting with this community really couldn't be any less pleasant. I don't have any interest in having a yelling match with people who either don't understand what I'm saying, don't care and are just hell-bent on giving me a hard time, or are so delusional as to create absolutely insane troll logic like the post above this one.

Missing mid-map is a lot less impressive than missing at the end since holding combo for longer is harder.
I guess osu! is a perfection game where misses are highly punished in terms of PP earnings.

Combo will always be more important than acc in this game, but the amount of PP you get is greatly reduced when having bad acc.
Sure you might get decent PP from <90%, but having 99%+ is so much more rewarding. Ming would've been a lot higher on the leader-board if he wanted to.

A typical farm map for my rank is monstrata's "santa san"
With HR, this map is worth 481PP with SS rank. 98% however, the worth drops down to 381PP. That's a 100PP difference.

osu! standard is definitely a combo based game. The importance of combo triumphs acc however i still believe it's a game that requires rhythm sense since a play without acc quickly becomes worthless. Combo>acc, but combo alone doesn't give PP.

As for everyone else, continuing this thread is a complete waste of my time. Interacting with this community really couldn't be any less pleasant. I don't have any interest in having a yelling match with people who either don't understand what I'm saying, don't care and are just hell-bent on giving me a hard time, or are so delusional as to create absolutely insane troll logic like the post above this one.

Welcome in world of adult people, please buy a vest and helmet, also prepare your ass to be kicked several times for being unable to start a proper discussion.

It is not a community problem because when you prepare properly for discussion (eg. how Railey2 is doing), threads are alive for LONG time and filled with mature, good to read discussion full of arguments, theory and practice examples.

You just came here unprepared... so, want me to review your post from a side? Well here we go:

Topic: Welcome to osu!, the rhythm game where rhythm is worthless

Wording, undertone, attitude : Sarcastic complain type of topic, completely not fitting for proper discussion thread. Person who see it, prepare by default for complain type of message.

I think most of us can agree that the pp system isn't perfect. A lot of people claim that it leads to the gamification of mapping, or unrealistic portrayals of player skill. I'm not entirely sure if I agree with this premise, but it has slowly dawned on me that there is a much more serious, grave issue: because score and pp are almost entirely combo-based, accuracy is 100% worthless without combo.

Inconsistent facts / theory / statement : Putting up theory which is not truth, considering fact that pp formula is open and everyone can check how much of overall pp contribution have each of aspects, your statement is false by default. Sounds more like complain that discussion startup.

You can be a top player with little to no accuracy whatsoever as long as you can hold a combo. In short, osu! is not a rhythm game, it is an aiming game. It might as well be a first person shooter for all that rhythm matters in the rankings.

Wording + meaning : Technically top player is a top player. Everything below should be pointed out as top[x] / high ranked / ranked in top[x]. There is a clear difference between someone on the top of the list and someone being below him which technically is not a top but "person placed at".

Here we have a top 50 player who plays touchscreen. They are rank #49, with a paltry 90% accuracy. This in itself presents an extremely compelling argument to play touchscreen - sacrifice pretty much all rhythm precision to drastically increase the proficiency of your aim. What are cross screen jumps to a touchscreen player? Hai Tai all day baby

(Main) Attitude : Passive - aggressive attitude towards point of interest presented at start of topic (can be one or many direct/indirect ways).

(Major) Wording : Inconsistency in speech. Using urban sentences without reason, using game specific sentences without explaining proper way of understanding it.

They have less hours than me, a forgettable 20K mouse scrub, and are in the top 50. Why am I even wasting my time playing the game as it was primarily designed? I strongly suggest you read their bio, as it goes more into depth on the last point.

Attitude, wording, inconsistency : Aggressive attitude, complain, wrong way of explaining core of problem in term of presented example + inconsistency. Unnecessary usage of "self" as example.

This isn't meant to be taken as an indictment of touchscreen in any way - I think that their acheivement is incredibly cool - but it is a total indictment of how the pp system rewards you purely for aim and combo, something that is drastically easier with certain playstyles, and that concentrating on accuracy is a meaningless struggle that rewards you peanuts in terms of the amount of effort invested.

Argumentation : Missing explanation of touchscreen playstyle, missing explanation of touchscreen specifications towards other playstyles, group of audience interested in topic may not be aware of problem touched in presented example. Minor inconsistency.

Here's an even more extreme example. Rank 240, a solid 250 hours ingame, 83% accuracy. One year was all it took to break top 250. Again, I strongly suggest you read their profile so you can get how broken this shit is, straight from the source. And again, it couldn't be any more clear: if you really want to be "good" at this game, don't buy a tablet, buy a touchscreen computer.

(Main) Attitude : Presenting passive - aggressive attitude in presented example, almost complain. Presenting negative attitude.

(Major) Argumentation: No explanation presenting point of view of "what means to be good".

(2 examples, both same) Facts : Knowledge about profile changes after player restriction / bans. Audience is placed in unsure situation if players in examples were banned / restricted and their profiles altered by this incident.

But hey, let's forget touchscreen for a moment. Those guys are basically cheaters anyway, this is a mouse and tablet game right?

Attitude, Facts : Aggressive attitude. No arguments towards "touchscreen players being a cheaters". No arguments supporting statements.

Well, I present to you: Ming3012, a highly talented player who sandbags their accuracy as much as possible for the lulz. Their average accuracy is a mind-blowing 66.66%. Their top play is 422 pp with a solid 60%. Why even bother trying to be accurate?

Wording, Attitude : Unnecessary usage of urban directory. Further follow with possibly complain type of question.

Why be an accuracy focused player like yuriOS or Enify? Nobody is going to care and you will languish in obscurity, because to sum it up: osu! is a rhythm game where rhythm doesn't matter.

Attitude : Semi-complain as finishing words. No sum-up of arguments and examples, no guiding statment / question. Unnecessary sarcasm.

Here you have, academic apportionment of your post which exactly explain how it is seen by community who expect proper discussion.
If you complain more, be aware it is your problem, not community.

[Taiga] wrote:

As for everyone else, continuing this thread is a complete waste of my time. Interacting with this community really couldn't be any less pleasant. I don't have any interest in having a yelling match with people who either don't understand what I'm saying, don't care and are just hell-bent on giving me a hard time, or are so delusional as to create absolutely insane troll logic like the post above this one.

Welcome in world of adult people, please buy a vest and helmet, also prepare your ass to be kicked several times for being unable to start a proper discussion.

It is not a community problem because when you prepare properly for discussion (eg. how Railey2 is doing), threads are alive for LONG time and filled with mature, good to read discussion full of arguments, theory and practice examples.

How can I possibly have an adult conversation with someone who distorts everything I say into the exact opposite no matter what evidence is placed before them, and then hurls piles of insults and swears at me over their inability (or refusal) to understand? It's not even just me you do this to, you have single handedly destroyed mutliple large discussion threads with your bullshit. You are quite possibly the least adult person in all of Gameplay and Rankings and that is saying volumes, so don't you dare give me this absurd uppity lecture. You are entirely unqualified to give it.

EDIT:

[Taiga] wrote:

You just came here unprepared... so, want me to review your post from a side?

I can barely understand a thing you wrote because your English is poor.

The little I can understand is just completely insane. I can't argue against that.

Read up, edited.

It's not even just me you do this to, you have single handedly destroyed mutliple large discussion threads with your bullshit. You are quite possibly the least adult person in all of Gameplay and Rankings and that is saying volumes, so don't you dare give me this absurd uppity lecture. You are entirely unqualified to give it.

Well, from what I know, my contribution into PROPER discussion is either stay silent if I have nothing to add or make a wall of text full of arguments, examples and support statements. Your topic is NOT a proper discussion, hence I am not obligated to behave here.

If discussion is heating up between people, it is acceptable as far as arguments, statements, point of view is fluent and exchanged between audience.

Again, welcome in adult world. There if you go to any meeting and make same speech, you either will be asked to leave and educate yourself in inter-personal communication or get taken down to the point where you, alongside with your topic will look very stupid in eyes of audience.

Here is example of well prepared topic and well made speech which brings good discussion: t/642741

Welcome to G&R, the forum where being right is worthless

You know for this topic to be brought up so often, there is a clear indication of doubt within. The arguement that combo has a sense of rhythm clearly has people who disagree, and by not a small amount. After being through these so much and understanding each side's pov, ultimately, it's not a matter of figuring out whether rhythm is worthless in std anymore, but rather forcing non believers of such to acknowledge that rhythm is std is worthless. Which is a desire moot ad infinitum.

Just wait for the acc scoring mod or something idk.

M3ATL0V3R wrote:

Edgar_Figaro wrote:

If you miss at the dead center of the map in STD and SS the rest of the map your score is practically worthless. Yet the same score where you miss at the end of the song is still worth a lot, both scenarios have a player screwing up 1 time and both have them playing perfectly the rest of the map. So why should 1 score be better than the other?

The reason is because missing at the end or start of the map shows you can complete a combo of the maps length without choking. Choking in the middle shows you are only able to complete a combo of half the maps length. The first player is obviously a better player and deserves more pp.

Ah but the thing is, many times I have let's say a 96% play with 1 miss at the end while the other time the 1 miss play in the middle is 99%. The 2nd play sure as hell "feels" a lot better, yet from both score V1 and PPV2 the 96% play with a miss at the end is considered better.

Maybe the plays that I feel best about aren't in-line with what the game considers better, but I feel like random middle of the map choke plays with high ACC is the worst feeling ever as the play feels so amazing yet you know the score will count for nothing. Which is why I prefer Taikos scoring system as where I miss doesn't matter (well excluding kiai times and such) I get penalized for my lack of consistency and I continue playing the map. Standard with its heavy emphasis on combo makes continuing the map after a miss feel like a waste of time and just leaves me bitter after the play is over on "what could have been".

I guess at its root I think combo based scoring builds bad habits of retrying and people playing short maps as trying to stay consistent on long maps is a trial in frustration. I improved much faster at Taiko then I have been able to at Standard, mainly because if I miss it's "OK" my play isn't immediately worthless. At the same time I am penalized each time I miss which encourages me to try and be as consistent as possible.

Edit: I think Standard community has this mindset of Combo>All so much that suggesting anything to the contrary is immediately rejected by the community. If you go into the Taiko community and suggest combo based scoring to be introduced you'll get equal adamant refusal. (I've seen people try and nobody is in favor of it) both just don't want things to change (at least not in that way) but I am pretty sure if peppy decided to make combo less important, eventually standard players would agree more with Taikos sentiment and probably vice versa

Edgar_Figaro wrote:

Edit: I think Standard community has this mindset of Combo>All so much that suggesting anything to the contrary is immediately rejected by the community. If you go into the Taiko community and suggest combo based scoring to be introduced you'll get equal adamant refusal. (I've seen people try and nobody is in favor of it) both just don't want things to change (at least not in that way) but I am pretty sure if peppy decided to make combo less important, eventually standard players would agree more with Taikos sentiment and probably vice versa

This is the core thing std players will not accept. Just the idea that if ppy made acc based scoring instead of combo based scoring from the beginning that would have made std players value acc scoring more is a concept so alien it's an impossibility to them.

Yeah, as a person who plays all 4 modes I kinda see flaws in all of the scoring systems. Although imo Taiko is the one that gets it closest. Although the fact that missing a bunch in rapid succession penalizes less score than 2 times separated is an issue (mainly cause PP system cares about # of misses while score V1 cares more about how many breaks of combo)

Mania doesn't put enough emphasis on consistency and causes bad habit of people just spamming keys and not playing certain patterns properly.

CTB also has problem due to droplets being practically worthless compared to spinners, yet droplets affect ACC while bananas don't.

Imo opinion a good scoring system for all gamemodes would take a few elements of each and also some new ideas. (CTB would never be able to be fully the same as ACC isn't a rythmn based component)

I dont know, I kinda like the fact that top scores are mostly FC's.

I would rather see flawless plays of a bit lower tier maps than really hard maps with occasional misses.

Its much more clean.