GARNiDELiA - Aikotoba TV Size ver.

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Myxo
Hey! I have some concerns about the spinner usage in this mapset.

In Hard and Insane, you're ending a spinner at the white tick 00:00:611 (1) - and then start a second one on the blue tick right after. That's pretty unintuitive to play, especially on Hard level, because a spinner ending on white feels like it's done. The second spinner isn't particularly short so it's not a big problem but it would be nice if you could end the first spinner on blue or red, silence it's end and start the second one on white.
More importantly, I wonder why you didn't add spinner(s) to Easy and Normal? Spinners add a lot to lower difficulties because they increase score diversity, so it seems like a weird decision to leave them out there while you had them in the higher difficulties. A single spinner from 00:00:611 - to 00:05:475 - would work fine in both diffs, for example.

Otherwise cute little mapset, though I don't really like how the maps don't really go into the corners of the playfield, especially on the lower diffs it feels imbalanced. I hope you'll consider to change the spinners, good luck!
Topic Starter
Underforest

Myxomatosis wrote:

Hey! I have some concerns about the spinner usage in this mapset.

In Hard and Insane, you're ending a spinner at the white tick 00:00:611 (1) - and then start a second one on the blue tick right after. That's pretty unintuitive to play, especially on Hard level, because a spinner ending on white feels like it's done. The second spinner isn't particularly short so it's not a big problem but it would be nice if you could end the first spinner on blue or red, silence it's end and start the second one on white.
Doing two spinners emphatizes a pitch change which happen at the end of the first spinner, ignoring it would feel weird in terms of rhythm and that's why it's ending in white tick with a whistle.

Myxomatosis wrote:

More importantly, I wonder why you didn't add spinner(s) to Easy and Normal? Spinners add a lot to lower difficulties because they increase score diversity, so it seems like a weird decision to leave them out there while you had them in the higher difficulties. A single spinner from 00:00:611 - to 00:05:475 - would work fine in both diffs, for example.
I had plans to do so, but unfortunately the spinner waiting time (4 beats for Easy and 2 beats for Normal) is not the enough to emphatize the clap. Idea sounds good but it leaves out an emphasis I regularly follow in this case.

Gonna keep these spinners and breaks for now. It's not like it is an issue which can seriously affect map atmosphere imo.
Myxo

Underforest wrote:

Doing two spinners emphatizes a pitch change which happen at the end of the first spinner, ignoring it would feel weird in terms of rhythm and that's why it's ending in white tick with a whistle.
Of course they emphasize the pitch change, but the common way to do this is to start the spinner on the sound and end the previous one slightly earlier, just like you'd do with sliders. The current way just makes the second spinner seem delayed.

Underforest wrote:

I had plans to do so, but unfortunately the spinner waiting time (4 beats for Easy and 2 beats for Normal) is not the enough to emphatize the clap. Idea sounds good but it leaves out an emphasis I regularly follow in this case.
What emphasis you regularly follow? You could keep the other objects the same as they are, spinner recovery time of 3 beats seems totally enough on a 150 BPM Easy or Normal.
Hobbes2
Ending a spinner on a white tick is perfectly fine, even for a hard diff. For one, I think you're overvalueing how much starting a spinner actually does, because the start of the spinner doesn't actually provide any feedback. At least the end of the spinner has a definite hitsound to it that can be set on a white tick giving it some feedback there. and tbh, players aren't blind; they should be paying attention to see that they should keep spinning lol

I don't think your suggestion is wrong, but I don't think it's an actual improvement worth dqing over
Nao Tomori
no the common way to do this is definitely to end the spinner on the strong sound... that way there's a hit sound here. spinners aren't active rhythm so there isnt a click, players would just constantly be spinning. the feedback would then be where the spinner ends, which is on the white tick. i think the current choice is good.

easy/normal thing is up to you
Myxo

Naotoshi wrote:

no the common way to do this is definitely to end the spinner on the strong sound
I haven't seen that done in years, maybe I just didn't pay close enough attention, though. Part of it might be that consecutive spinners are much more rarely used these days anyway.
Hobbes2

Myxomatosis wrote:

Naotoshi wrote:

no the common way to do this is definitely to end the spinner on the strong sound
I haven't seen that done in years, maybe I just didn't pay close enough attention, though. Part of it might be that consecutive spinners are much more rarely used these days anyway.
I can safely say that I have almost entirely only seen people end spinners on the strong beat if there are consecutive spinners
_handholding
If you want to get this DQ'd for w/e reason it might be worth moving the object 00:07:097 (1) more closer to the centre, the amount of recovery time is pretty low for a hard and having it start more closer to the centre would make it a bit easier.

I like the spaced 1/2 beat structure in the normal, works nicely
Topic Starter
Underforest
Moving that object to the center works but I think the current position is pretty fine too. I did this in https://osu.ppy.sh/s/587869 too and had no problems.

Same thing with the spinners, I prefer to keep them for emphasis. Both issues are not really high for a reasonable DQ I think.
Monstrata
Ending the spinner in the strong sound is what ur supposed to do anyways. There's a reason when you hitsound a spinner it's attached only to the end and not the head. With sliders there is a definitive start but you have some leeway in terms of when you want to release. The release of a slider is not bound by time. The opposite is true for spinners. There is no definitive starting point for the spinner. You can start spinning immediately or wait about before spinning. Because of that interaction hutsounding the beginning of a spinner is not reliable. If a hitsound plays right when the spinner starts it can throw people off like a storyboardrd hitsound. Similarly having the hitsound be when the player starts spinning can cause rhythmic issues since the payer could effectively begin spinning halfway through a spinner and still get 300 in long spinner cases. What's why the hitsound is st the end of the spinner, because that's the only place you can definitely end the spinner. Putting a hitsound on a random blue tick before the actual note is stupid because how are you supposed to hitsound it then.
Present

Monstrata wrote:

Because of that interaction hutsounding the beginning of a spinner is not reliable.
yeah I agree but... hey may I ask what's a hutsound :o
Monstrata
It's when you live in a hut and bang a drum.
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