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PP maps are not unethical!

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Ninonuko
Ok let's face the reality, I don't even have aim to farm pp map, calling pp farmer doesn't have skill is unreasonable for me at least...
Also lacking dt, hr or hd capability.
Idk why people judge pp farmer and pp map that badly, why don't you try it instead of completely avoid it.
Fxjlk

Mio Winter wrote:

but, seriously, why would you play the choco-cookie song? it's terrible
I am offended, choco cookie is the song of my people :cry:
autoteleology

Endie- wrote:

How is he destroying anything? He isn't altering any ranking criteria.
Ruin fun? Players who don't like his maps are not obligated to play them. Could you elaborate?
He is totally not interested at all with trying to rank up because he is just way too cool to care about such pretty things, but for some reason is super concerned about the balance of map rewards. Did I mention his top plays are literally loaded with all the pp maps he claims to hate so much? Hmm.

Add in a sprinkle of "Nobody is allowed to like anything I don't like" and here we have a perfect recipe for "acting out in a sense of unwarranted self importance".
-Makishima S-

Philosofikal wrote:

Nobody is allowed to like anything he doesn't like. <---- waiting for quote where I said that or expressed that, lmao, pls cage yourself already, enough autism in this forum

He is totally not interested at all with trying tp rank up because he is just way too cool to care about such pretty things, but for some reason is super concerned about the balance of map rewards. Did I mention his top plays are literally loaded with all the pp maps he claims to hate sooooo much? Hmm. <---- 16 pp farm maps / 100 scores = "loaded" XXXXXXXXXDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD are you retarded or on drugs?
Just typical "dual stylus guy"
/shrug

@Edit:

Red Velvet - Russian Roulette [Insane] +DT 1
Darren Korb - Setting Sail, Coming Home [Insane] +HD,DT 2
Sim Gretina - Apples To The Core (Remix) [Insane] +HD,DT 3
Chino(CV.Minase Inori) - Shinsaku no Shiawase wa Kochira! [Happy~!] +HD 4
Yuuki Aoi - Mata Ashita [Insane] +DT 5
Kitamura Eri & Nonaka Ai - and I'm home [Mirai] +HD,DT 6
Hatsune Miku - Electric Love (Short Ver.) [Insane] +HD,DT 7
Komiya Mao - (can you) understand me? [uhh?] 8
FLOWxGRANRODEO - 7 -seven- -TV SIZE - [Expert] 9
Feint - Vagrant (feat. Veela) [Still Alive] 10
supercell - The Bravery (TV Edit) [Magi] 11
Chino(CV.Minase Inori) - Shinsaku no Shiawase wa Kochira! [Dan Dan] 12
Yiruma & Skullee - River Flows In You (A Love Note) [Love Note] +HD,DT 13
AKINO from bless4 & CHiCO with HoneyWorks - MIIRO vs. Ai no Scenario [Tatoe] 14
Tsuji Ayano - Kaze ni Naru [Insane] +HD,DT 15
Petit Rabbit's - Nichijou Decoration [Insane] +HD,DT 16

Here are my pure pp farm maps from top100

"loaded" xDDDDDDDDDD
Fxjlk

[Taiga] wrote:

I will give you an example, from life:

What's up with all hate towards fastfoods?
This is a bad analogy, fast food is objectively bad for your body.

What maps are good for you is entirely subjective.

This comparison is a fallacy.
autoteleology
<---- 16 pp farm maps / 100 scores = "loaded" XXXXXXXXXDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD are you retarded or on drugs?
Red Velvet - Russian Roulette [Insane] +DT
Saiya - Remote Control [Take Control!] +HD
Darren Korb - Setting Sail, Coming Home [Insane] +HD,DT
Sakamoto Maaya - Okaerinasai (tomatomerde Remix) [Return] +HD
Sim Gretina - Apples To The Core (Remix) [Insane] +HD,DT
ClariS - Hitorigoto -TV MIX- [Soliloquy] +HD
Chino(CV.Minase Inori) - Shinsaku no Shiawase wa Kochira! [Happy~!] +HD
Yuuki Aoi - Mata Ashita [Insane] +DT
Kitamura Eri & Nonaka Ai - and I'm home [Mirai] +HD,DT
Tarpey - Close Call [Near Miss]
Rammstein - Los [Hard] +HD,DT
Komiya Mao - (can you) understand me? [uhh?]
Station Earth - Cold Green Eyes ft. Roos Denayer [Divine]
Fujijo Seitokai Shikkou-bu - Best FriendS [Insane] +HD
FLOWxGRANRODEO - 7 -seven- -TV SIZE - [Expert]
Feint - Vagrant (feat. Veela) [Still Alive]
supercell - The Bravery (TV Edit) [Magi]
Ayase Rie - Yuima-ru*World TVver. [Extra]
Chino(CV.Minase Inori) - Shinsaku no Shiawase wa Kochira! [Dan Dan] +HD
KANA-BOON - Silhouette [Kage] +HD
Drop - Granat [Extra] +HD
AKINO from bless4 & CHiCO with HoneyWorks - MIIRO vs. Ai no Scenario [Tatoe]
CHiCO with HoneyWorks - color [Waiting in the Rain]
Toyosaki Aki - Diamond [Insane]
Sagara Kokoro - Hoshizora no Ima [S.S]
Drop - Granat [Insane]
KANA-BOON - Silhouette [Yiyo's Insane] +HD

These are just the ones I know. You have plenty of maps I have never played.

I would be a huge asshole to everyone on the forums too, if I was the embodiment of everything I hate.
worst fl player
exile.
-Makishima S-
Saiya - Remote Control [Take Control!] +HD - map by Linda, barely anyone can DT this despite being low bpm, have tech aspects...... 5min map.... "farm map"

Sakamoto Maaya - Okaerinasai (tomatomerde Remix) [Return] +HD - 6min map with bursts, low complexity patterns, 1735 combo map "farm map"..............

ok, I don't even need to check more, You don't have idea about farm maps at all.
autoteleology

[Taiga] wrote:

Saiya - Remote Control [Take Control!] +HD - map by Linda, barely anyone can DT this despite being low bpm, have tech aspects...... 5min map.... "farm map"
Have you tried reading the comments for the map?

Sakamoto Maaya - Okaerinasai (tomatomerde Remix) [Return] +HD - 6min map with bursts, low complexity patterns, 1735 combo map "farm map"..............
Oh, you mean the map that is literally the exact same pattern, over and over and over again, for six whole minutes? If you can do a burst of 5 notes consistently you have everything you need to 99% this map. It's a farm map copy pasted over itself four times.

I mean, what would I know about this map, except, you know,

E m i
you basically just said your threshold for farm map is lower than his, he's not even saying they're turbo hard to get pp from.
Topic Starter
Mio Winter
I don't think Taiga needs to be attacked for anything, even if he/she sometimes plays maps that are easier to get PP from than Imperial Circus maps. It's mean to attack someone unnecessarily.
autoteleology

Mio Winter wrote:

I don't think Taiga needs to be attacked for anything, even if he/she sometimes plays maps that are easier to get PP from than Imperial Circus maps. It's mean to attack someone unnecessarily.
Oh, but everything he said to me is apparently fine, despite being way ruder and additionally completely pointless. It's just me you criticize. Go fuck yourself. At least what I said directly relates to my point, which is that the people who are the loudest critics of "le evil pp system" are usually the biggest exploiters of it. It's all insecurity.
Topic Starter
Mio Winter

Philosofikal wrote:

Mio Winter wrote:

I don't think Taiga needs to be attacked for anything, even if he/she sometimes plays maps that are easier to get PP from than Imperial Circus maps. It's mean to attack someone unnecessarily.
Oh, but everything he said to me is apparently fine, despite being way ruder and additionally completely pointless. It's just me you criticize. Go fuck yourself. At least what I said directly relates to my point, which is that the people who are the loudest critics of "le evil pp system" are usually the biggest exploiters of it. It's all insecurity.
I didn't know this was a continuation of an earlier feud. I just commented on what I saw.
autoteleology

Mio Winter wrote:

I didn't know this was a continuation of an earlier feud. I just commented on what I saw.
I'm talking about right now. Have you even read the thread? Why is it OK for me to be called an autistic retard on drugs if you're going to take it upon yourself to single people out for their arguing tactics?
Akanagi
Well, it's mostly a "camp"-mentality, partially formed of players who want to give themselves the benefit of the doubt by not playing PP maps at all so they can say "I could be way higher but I just don't play pp maps"


Then there's also the actual pp farmers who just want to rank up to give themselves a feeling of superiority by having such a high rank in a very low time, living under the illusion they're just that talented to "improve" much faster than everyone else, usually will also condemn any non-farm map as "cancer" or "shit map", because all they did was acquire the skillset needed to play said pp-maps.



If you're coming from League, you would call the PP-farmers "One-trick-ponies", simply because they can only really play those kind of maps, however this is the type of playstyle that will get you the furthest in terms of ranks in a short time.

And as in every game, there's also the unofficial ranking / pp-police that will call you out on this kind of stuff.



Obviously there are a lot of people in between. Some just don't care, some just play everything there is.
Funny enough, both groups mentioned above usually do this so they can think they're better than they actually are, whether it be by inflating your pp by playing maps optimized for pp-gain, or by said benefit of the doubt of never playing said maps.


edit: nice ava momiji
Topic Starter
Mio Winter

Philosofikal wrote:

Mio Winter wrote:

I didn't know this was a continuation of an earlier feud. I just commented on what I saw.
I'm talking about right now. Have you even read the thread? Why is it OK for me to be called an autistic retard on drugs if you're going to take it upon yourself to single people out for their arguing tactics?
Oh yeah, lots of the things he/she said to you after you attacked him/her were really rude, and I condemn them too. Using "autistic" as a swear word is bad enough in its own right. I didn't mention these things at first because they were delivered in defence.

I should make a note that if I'm going to take my moral hat on and start judging people for what they do, I ought to judge everyone for their due. : P
Topic Starter
Mio Winter

Rayne wrote:

Well, it's mostly a "camp"-mentality, partially formed of players who want to give themselves the benefit of the doubt by not playing PP maps at all so they can say "I could be way higher but I just don't play pp maps"

Then there's also the actual pp farmers who just want to rank up to give themselves a feeling of superiority by having such a high rank in a very low time, living under the illusion they're just that talented to "improve" much faster than everyone else, usually will also condemn any non-farm map as "cancer" or "shit map", because all they did was acquire the skillset needed to play said pp-maps.v

There's just no way to play without being accused of something is there? : P

I want to be in the camp that gets PP from maps that are hard to get PP from, so that I can claim to be underrated. (Because I think that would be cool, even if I'm not actually succeeding at it...) Gaining lots of PP in a short time by playing PP maps is also commendable because it's hard to do, but that's not the kind of cool I aim to be. Let's just say that it's OK to play osu! no matter how you play it, and it's not OK to attack people for playing certain kinds of osu!.
-Makishima S-

Mio Winter wrote:

Oh yeah, lots of the things he/she said to you after you attacked him/her were really rude, and I condemn them too. Using "autistic" as a swear word is bad enough in its own right. I didn't mention these things at first because they were delivered in defence.

I should make a note that if I'm going to take my moral hat on and start judging people for what they do, I ought to judge everyone for their due. : P
You should first spend some time to view history of this guy in GnR and why not only me is rude towards him. Then you will understand situation.
worst fl player
Fxjlk

[Taiga] wrote:

You should first spend some time to view history of this guy in GnR and why not only me is rude towards him. Then you will understand situation.
He was rude but he wasn't wrong, you do have a lot of farm maps in your top plays.
chainpullz
Now now guys, no reason to be so antagonistic here. Can't we all just drink beer click circles and be merry?
Fxjlk

[Taiga] wrote:

Saiya - Remote Control [Take Control!] +HD - map by Linda, barely anyone can DT this despite being low bpm, have tech aspects...... 5min map.... "farm map"
This may be just anecdotal experience or luck but I FCd that map on my first try for 257pp

It might have tech aspects but the map is very simple and repetitive and that outweighs the tech aspects.
-Makishima S-
It might have tech aspects but the map is very simple and repetitive and that outweighs the tech aspects.
Well, with this mentality most maps are farm maps, ESPECIALLY 10-15min (3-6k combo) marathons due how "easy patterns they have".
/shrug
KupcaH
every ranked map is farm map
Fxjlk

[Taiga] wrote:

Well, with this mentality most maps are farm maps, ESPECIALLY 10-15min (3-6k combo) marathons due how "easy patterns they have".
/shrug
No, there are many many many maps with slider speed variation, hard to read patterns, weird AR/bpm combos, mapping that accentuates the less prominent instruments etc.

Over half of my maps I play are not farm maps and I'm not going to run out ever.

When you get a combination of predictable, high OD, easy, repetitive patterns its a farm map. Also there is diminishing pp returns for maps beyond 2k combo approx so no most marathon maps are not farm maps.

99% percent of farm map haters are either
1) mappers who want their content to be preferred
2) people who don't understand mapping
3) elitists who are bad at playing and want to be seen as actually better than their rank because they don't play dirty farm maps

People who are neutral or just don't prefer farm maps are not "haters" I'm talking about people who say farm maps are cancer and are not joking.
N0thingSpecial

[Taiga] wrote:

Sakamoto Maaya - Okaerinasai (tomatomerde Remix) [Return] +HD - 6min map with bursts, low complexity patterns, 1735 combo map "farm map"..............
Don't know about the remote control one

But this one, I FCed this once with no mod back when I was 5 digit for them marathon pp, after entering 4 digit decided to re-FC it with HD cause it's easy, after breaking 6k pp and learning HR, decided to FC this with HDHR cause it's sweet marathon pp, and that's how I got a 294pp score from this map.

Trust me this is a pp map
B1rd

L-a-m-e-y [ B ] wrote:

easy pp right over here
Good example of how music used to be objectively better.


N0thingSpecial wrote:

[Taiga] wrote:

Sakamoto Maaya - Okaerinasai (tomatomerde Remix) [Return] +HD - 6min map with bursts, low complexity patterns, 1735 combo map "farm map"..............
Don't know about the remote control one

But this one, I FCed this once with no mod back when I was 5 digit for them marathon pp, after entering 4 digit decided to re-FC it with HD cause it's easy, after breaking 6k pp and learning HR, decided to FC this with HDHR cause it's sweet marathon pp, and that's how I got a 294pp score from this map.

Trust me this is a pp map
You need to make a distinction between farm maps and good maps that just so happen to give good PP. That map falls into the latter category, and I've FC'd it many times with and without hidden, not for PP but just because I like that map and its enjoyable (even though I think Azer is a douche).
N0thingSpecial

B1rd wrote:

You need to make a distinction between farm maps and good maps that just so happen to give good PP. That map falls into the latter category, and I've FC'd it many times with and without hidden, not for PP but just because I like that map and its enjoyable (even though I think Azer is a douche).
Are we talking about the same okaerinasai? Cause azer's is called "collab" and the one we're talking about is called "Return"

Also if I understand you correctly, are you saying the quality of the map affects the quality of the pp despite its still overweighted?
B1rd
I really don't keep up with the newest farm maps. Some one will make a good map and then half a dozen PP mappers will make ripoff farm maps of it.
Topic Starter
Mio Winter
Hey, it's not nice to call someone a "douche"!
B1rd
Why should I care what's "nice"? The purpose of forums is not to blow smoke up other people's arses.
N0thingSpecial
Yea exactly, fuk you B1rd.
Fxjlk

B1rd wrote:

Good example of how music used to be objectively better.
Music is nether purely subjective or objective

There is objective qualities to music however the perception of it is heavily effected by social conditioning [1] just like food. [2]

Music is heavily tied to memory, just by listening to a song you can feel like you are taken back to the time in your life you listened to it. You are attracted to music that expresses your identity. [3]

Therefore it is incorrect to say music is objective, since for the most part the perception of it depends on the person.

Music is subjective

[1] https://vtechworks.lib.vt.edu/bitstream ... sequence=1
[2] http://www.acrwebsite.org/search/view-c ... px?Id=7565
[3] http://faculty.georgetown.edu/irvinem/t ... y-1996.pdf
Topic Starter
Mio Winter
*Hype!* Philosophy debate incoming!

PS: I won't bother to read any dry academic articles, but I'll gladly consume any actual reasoning presented in posts here.
N0thingSpecial
Can we not turn this into a philosophy debate
Topic Starter
Mio Winter

N0thingSpecial wrote:

Can we not turn this into a philosophy debate
I say we define our moral axioms clearly and deduce our conclusions using formal logic. It should go something like this:

Premise 1: Suffering is bad and happiness is good.
???
Conclusion: PP maps are bad/good. And btw music is subjective/objective.
B1rd

Mio Winter wrote:

N0thingSpecial wrote:

Can we not turn this into a philosophy debate
I say we define our moral axioms clearly and deduce our conclusions using formal logic. It should go something like this:

Premise 1: Suffering is bad and happiness is good.
???
Conclusion: PP maps are bad/good. And btw music is subjective/objective.
That's what I did in the last thread.

By the way, looking at your blog, you really need to read Rand or something.

M3ATL0V3R wrote:

B1rd wrote:

Good example of how music used to be objectively better.
Music is nether purely subjective or objective

There is objective qualities to music however the perception of it is heavily effected by social conditioning [1] just like food. [2]

Music is heavily tied to memory, just by listening to a song you can feel like you are taken back to the time in your life you listened to it. You are attracted to music that expresses your identity. [3]

Therefore it is incorrect to say music is objective, since for the most part the perception of it depends on the person.

Music is subjective

[1] https://vtechworks.lib.vt.edu/bitstream ... sequence=1
[2] http://www.acrwebsite.org/search/view-c ... px?Id=7565
[3] http://faculty.georgetown.edu/irvinem/t ... y-1996.pdf
Musical and other cultural events integrate individuals into groups (Gurvitch 1971), and at the same time
express and reinforce social values (Dalhaus 1982)


Because the values and moral framework of society has degenerated, so has the music. It's why I don't like modern music, I don't identify with the underlying values of the millennial generation at all, and I can identify far more with 70s rock music and even Rick Astley songs than with modern mainstream music.
Topic Starter
Mio Winter
Here's how I think that discussion can be productive.

When you're arguing whether to call a thing (here, music) a certain word (here, "subjective" or "objective") it is often very helpfwl to taboo those words (i.e. you're not allowed to use the words) and replace them with their intended meaning.

So if you want to say "music is objective", you can't. You have to say "music is such and such" where "such and such" is what you mean by "objective".

It may seem pointless at first, but it's very often usefwl because we often mean different things with big words like "subjective" and "objective", and replacing them with their meaning lets us bypass lots of confusion that would result from the different meanings.

PS: Sorry, N0thingSpecial. This has officially turned into a philosophy debate.
Topic Starter
Mio Winter

B1rd wrote:

By the way, looking at your blog, you really need to read Rand or something.
Why? : O
B1rd
Because you're a filthy altruist.
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