1. very cold. (4.97 stars, 1096 notes)

1. 00:00:892 (4) - kinda sounds a bit overmapped since this is the only time you follow this sound in the intro, toughts about deleting this? Fits the repetion concept better too I think
2. 00:17:842 (3,4,5,1) - felt really harsh transistion here, would be cool to smoothen the flow with a bit wider angles here a bit since its still part of the easy part of the song maybe something like this for example
   
3. 00:32:092 (4,5) - control g on 4 or on 5 would be nice here for the pitch emphasis here ties is well with (1,2) pattern setup
4. 01:10:792 (7,8) - really huge jump kinda feel you should stick to making (7) a slider still since theres not really any change here yet in the music, 01:15:592 (7,8) - here its fine tho with the snares kicking in and the ds here is also lower too then at 1:10:792 (7,8) -
5. 01:22:342 (4,5) - would avoid these touching looks a bit messy
6. 01:23:092 (7,8) - this rythm gap felt a little bit off here, you got a huge strings of 1/4 rhythm until the end here and this is just kinda inbetween it, maybe introduce this type of rhythm later on too so its not stand alone? like 01:31:192 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - for example since theres nothing really unique about the current gap in the song, same for 04:54:292 (10) -
7. 01:58:792 (5) - could make this a 1/2 return instead, main vocals are on the 1/2 beats and it kinda sounds a bit overmapped atm for this "break" section, goes for a good desity buildup to 02:08:392 (1,2,3,4) - aswell
8. 02:04:492 (3) - just circle here would be good for a bit less density for this calm section and reducing that huge ds difference between 02:03:592 (1,2) - 1/1 and 02:04:492 (3,1) - 1/2 which is a bit too much for this quiet section
9. 02:14:992 (1,2,3) - minor but tiny ds increase would be nice since the borders are touching unlike the rest, makes it visually noticable
10. 02:25:792 (1) - could swap these for sliders maybe, since you got those 3 different rhythms introduced for these in the first half but then went only 3 double returns for the other half
11. 02:38:992 (1,2) - digging these but why not do it here too? 02:40:192 (3,4) - 02:49:792 (3,4) - these are kinda connected in the music and pretty unique so doing someting with the sv there would be really nice to represent that connection
12. 03:05:392 (3,4,5) - would be cool if you could make these visually feel more connected with 1-2 it feels kinda "random" atm and for some later on similar patterns too, take here 00:21:592 (1,2,3,4,5) - this visual connection with decreasing ds is pretty cool and I kinda wish it was more noticable implemented in this section of the song too since its a really nice concept, later on it gets alot nicer again at like 03:57:592 (1,2,3,4,5) -
13. 03:32:092 (4) - like earlier better to delete this one, reduces density and its not part of the main melody (ignored at 03:36:892 - 03:39:292 - for instance)

Wishkey wrote:

Heyo! M4M back

Cool stufff! Main point that prob could use some improvement would be the hitsounding a imo, I kinda feel you could represent the music better with the usuage of differt sample sets/additions to also provide some more feedback while playing. Take 00:19:192 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - which gets repeated throughout the song, you got some interesting drum feedback in the song here so you could try to represent it with hitsounding. For exampling the head of 00:19:192 (1) - and tails of 00:20:092 (4,5) - stand out as drums so you could use the drum sampleset for these 00:19:792 (3,6) - are the main snares of the song so the clap here is good, 00:21:292 (8) - however has a pretty different crash-like snare so maybe make this a drum clap which seems to fit nicely and to differtiate from the regular claps (later on too for stuff like 00:56:992 (1,2,3,4) - for example). On the head of 00:19:192 (1) - , 01:16:792 (1) - 02:14:392 (1) - etc you got these cool unique cymbals so why not try a soft/normal addition finish for those to represnt them. It kinda felt a bit weird that the main feedback were those 3 similar claps even though the song has a lot more to offer feedback wise I am a noob to hitsounding, so thanks for pointing this possibility out! I personally however do not feel like hitsonding excessively is good, as it distracts from the song's rhythm. This is personal opinion, as some people practically override the song's instruments for the purpose of keeping it interesting. I will take the cymbal idea though.

1. 00:00:892 (4) - kinda sounds a bit overmapped since this is the only time you follow this sound in the intro, toughts about deleting this? Fits the repetion concept better too I think Absolutely not. this is definatly not overmapping. There are more reasons to why this circle is important, but I won't go into it here.
2. 00:17:842 (3,4,5,1) - felt really harsh transistion here, would be cool to smoothen the flow with a bit wider angles here a bit since its still part of the easy part of the song maybe something like this for example
   
   I wanted a harsh transition, as it would set the example of the type of flow that would be used here.
3. 00:32:092 (4,5) - control g on 4 or on 5 would be nice here for the pitch emphasis here ties is well with (1,2) pattern setup I fixed ti to something better.
4. 01:10:792 (7,8) - really huge jump kinda feel you should stick to making (7) a slider still since theres not really any change here yet in the music, 01:15:592 (7,8) - here its fine tho with the snares kicking in and the ds here is also lower too then at 1:10:792 (7,8) - This was on accident, so I fixed it.
5. 01:22:342 (4,5) - would avoid these touching looks a bit messy Rearranged!
6. 01:23:092 (7,8) - this rythm gap felt a little bit off here, you got a huge strings of 1/4 rhythm until the end here and this is just kinda inbetween it, maybe introduce this type of rhythm later on too so its not stand alone? like 01:31:192 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - for example since theres nothing really unique about the current gap in the song, same for 04:54:292 (10) -
7. 01:58:792 (5) - could make this a 1/2 return instead, main vocals are on the 1/2 beats and it kinda sounds a bit overmapped atm for this "break" section, goes for a good desity buildup to 02:08:392 (1,2,3,4) - aswell I guess undermapping it would lead to some discernible advantages.
8. 02:04:492 (3) - just circle here would be good for a bit less density for this calm section and reducing that huge ds difference between 02:03:592 (1,2) - 1/1 and 02:04:492 (3,1) - 1/2 which is a bit too much for this quiet section 2 reasons I justify my choice. 1: DS only matters if players follow the entire slider. As this slider is so short, it is treated as a circle. 2. There is a very clear unusual sound I want to cover, and this is the only way I can do it without contradicting the song's intensity.
9. 02:14:992 (1,2,3) - minor but tiny ds increase would be nice since the borders are touching unlike the rest, makes it visually noticable Ye I forgot to fix this originally.
10. 02:25:792 (1) - could swap these for sliders maybe, since you got those 3 different rhythms introduced for these in the first half but then went only 3 double returns for the other half I redid the section to add in the variety.
11. 02:38:992 (1,2) - digging these but why not do it here too? 02:40:192 (3,4) - 02:49:792 (3,4) - these are kinda connected in the music and pretty unique so doing someting with the sv there would be really nice to represent that connection I am truly confused on how to map this section properly. I will wait and see if more people want this to be done before I do it as I am not confident with SV changes.
12. 03:05:392 (3,4,5) - would be cool if you could make these visually feel more connected with 1-2 it feels kinda "random" atm and for some later on similar patterns too, take here 00:21:592 (1,2,3,4,5) - this visual connection with decreasing ds is pretty cool and I kinda wish it was more noticable implemented in this section of the song too since its a really nice concept, later on it gets alot nicer again at like 03:57:592 (1,2,3,4,5) - I didn't make it exactly as you said, but I adjusted it so it would look more cascading.
13. 03:32:092 (4) - like earlier better to delete this one, reduces density and its not part of the main melody (ignored at 03:36:892 - 03:39:292 - for instance) I know it gets repeated, but as the circle I am currently mapping is the only time it peaks, I will represent it as it properly should.

Hope it helped a bit gl man! You helped alot!

Error- wrote:

M4M.

reduce volume on first part.
00:00:000 (1,2) - 00:01:042 (5,7) - 00:01:342 (6,8) - 00:02:392 (1,2) - 00:03:442 (4,6) - 00:03:742 (5,7) - 00:04:792 (1,2) - 00:07:192 (1,2) - 00:09:592 (1,2) - 00:10:642 (3,5) - 00:11:992 (1,2) - 00:13:042 (3,5) - 00:14:392 (1,2) - 00:15:442 (3,4) - ..and many more, improve blanket~ Erm, how about I chalk it up to a unique mapping style and get that over with . If I am consistently off with my blankets im fine.

00:02:392 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - I would suggest this can be flipped horizontally so it doesn't 100% the copy-paste of 00:00:000 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - , it will be more variative and so it doesn't seems like you're --somewhat-- lazy. (even its the same sound) Well I am trying a unique mapping style, of directly overlapping objects to represent the same sound in calm sections.
00:07:192 (1,2,3,4,5) - same goes here, I would'nt mention about 00:08:992 (6,7) - , but if you wanna keep, try to move 00:09:292 (7) - somewhere so it doesn't create an odd overlap with 00:08:242 (4) - Again, I want to represent the same sounds with literally the same pattern here, to contrast against variation later in the map.
00:11:992 (1,2,3,4,5) - ^ ^
00:19:192 (1,2,4) - A triangle would be much better here I see kind of how that could work, but I want to keep my visual style.
00:18:592 (4,3) - overlap They are far enough apart in the timeline I would argue it doesn't matter as much as my visual connections.
00:21:592 (1,2,3,4,5) - 00:21:592 (1,3) - these can replaced with a flipped copy of 00:21:892 (2,4) - , which will make stuffs more tidy. I dunno what you mean by any of this, but my justification for keeping it the way it is is to show off the song dropping in intensity through a cascading pattern.
00:23:992 (1,2,4) - you know No?
00:26:992 (3,4) - incosistent spacing, its 1,64x while before is 3,27x, I know you want to emphasize the lower sound but please don't do it like this, make it a lil bit more space. I would argue again to look at what I have mapped. 00:22:192 (3,4) I assume is the pattern you were referring to. Note that the slider heads are as close to each other as the other, which when played with slider leniency is about the same. I will adjust it for visual reasons, but relying on DS outside of hard difficulties is not always truthful.
00:27:292 (4,5) - also here, its lower but the spacing is huge for a low sound. Fixed!
00:32:692 (1,1) - stack Fixed!
00:39:592 (1) - I wanna know the reason behind the red ticks. The vocals vibrates, so I used a wibbly slider to show it off.
00:40:042 - map this please, it feels somewhat empty without this.
00:44:842 - ^ This was kinds the intention. If you can't give me a solid reason to why not, then Imma keep it this way.
00:46:792 (1,2,3) - flow. https://puu.sh/xRQED/7dcaa69383.png
well yea it repeats and you CTRL+D it, fix those stuffs on the copy pasted parts too. Fixed both!
00:58:792 (5) - move this a bit right so it looks tidier as it almost do an overlap with 00:58:192 (3) - also 00:58:042 (2,4,5) - fix triangle I fixed the first one, but the second clearly isn't a triangle.

most of the time, try to be consistent with spacing, it looks pretty inconsistent right now, try to look back at the map, fix blankets, etc. As long as spacing isn't too different, they would be almost identical in gameplay. The specific DS doesn't matter, and looking through it looks and plays about the same. I will keep the visual style over pedantic spacing.

I'll skip to kiai.
02:25:792 (1,2) - overlap. I know this was intentional.
02:27:442 (3,1) - spacing aaaa Yes it is low. This was intentional. Maybe a bit too low then, Imma change the pattern slightly.
02:28:792 (1) - strong sound why low spacing No? I was clearly trying to emphasize the drum beat in this section.
02:29:992 (1) - aaaa?
02:34:192 (1,2) - bad overlap. Intentional overlap here missy.
02:38:992 (1,2) - .
02:39:592 (1,3) -
02:43:792 (1,2) -
02:48:592 (1,2) - ...
02:49:192 (1,3) - .. All intentional.

well, yea... it repeats.
good luck on your set.

pinataman wrote:

Hi. Here for M4M from queue. Hope this Helps

[very cold]

00:02:392 (1,2) – I think you can improve all of your blankets like these. Try to get the distance even between the approach circle and the slider all the way across the slider like: http://puu.sh/xRRjY/805a52d0c4.jpg If I am consistently ignoring blankets being perfect, it is good enough. I don't see the point of so much effort for something pretty much meaningless unless you pause the map every second.

00:05:842 (4,5,6) – This is using two different philosophies behind stacking. Try either perfectly stacking (4,6) or do a consistent overlap like: http://puu.sh/xRRqz/751bfb511d.jpg I did this specifically for spacing emphisis.

00:20:392 (5,6,7,8,9,1) – The ¼ notes here felt pretty nice. The contrast between the slow rhythm and the fast rhythm really brought out that synthetic snare sound. Thanks!

00:23:392 (1,1,2,3) – The ¼ and 1/8 notes did not feel nice. There is a substantial jump between 00:23:392 (1,1) – which really contradicts what 00:20:392 (5,6,7,8,9,1) –was doing. The 1/8 slider does the same thing, it increases the intensity for a reason I don't understand and can't feel in the music. Your previous was really cool at bringing out the music that I wish you would repeat it by deleting 00:23:392 (1) – and doing just stacking a circle on the other ones. Applies to 00:28:192 (1,1,2,3) – and anywhere else you do this. I plan on removing the 1/8 sliders all together, since SV changes like this don't belong in the song, when I can easily use spacing to show off the snares.

00:37:792 (1,2,3,4) – This large spacing provided a huge contrast in the map that I wasn't a fan of. Really, it's at 00:37:492 (1,1) - . You're making me pause and hold my cursor in the same position. So the note at 00:37:792 (1) – feels weakly mapped because there's no jump into it. So your rise in intensity starts at (2) when it should really start at (1). My first impression was that all these DS's were too big since you don't use this high of jumps in the other parts, but honestly if you do something to get a jump into (1) like this it might be okay: http://puu.sh/xRRVc/504b9f29a8.jpg. Im remapping anyways.

00:41:992 (1,2,1,2,3,4) – I don't like using repetition here because the notes at 00:41:992 (1,2) – strongly contrast with the notes at 00:42:592 (1,2,3,4) - , so doing something in the map to contrast them rather than compare them seems more appropriate. Try doing a 90 degree rotation or something like http://puu.sh/xRS1j/a5fc463533.jpg. Applies to similar parts like 00:51:592 (1,2,1) - . Wait how did contrast become bad?

00:47:092 (2,3) – same kind of issue as 00:23:392 (1,1,2,3) – . 1/8 slider feels like you're adding too much intensity, but doing a normal pattern will be plenty of intensity for this section. Try turning the 1/8 slider into a circle and going with the repeat pattern of 00:47:392 (1,2,3,4) – to be like: http://puu.sh/xRSaq/3473c3a411.jpg (and don't give me the excuse that it doesn't fit with the following 00:47:992 (1) – slider. If the following note doesn't fit, that means you change the original pattern and then also change the following pattern so that you take the original suggestion at full value) With my current pattern, I both represent the snare, and the weird spring sounds. Im on the edge though, so if someone else responds otherwise, I will change this.

00:40:192 (2,3,4,5,1,2,3) – The flow into (1) was pretty good. Usually wide angle patterns feel uncomfortable, but the way the (2,3,4,5) flow feeds into the (1,2,3) flow was well done Thanks! Although I think what you may be mistaking is that in low spacing, flow is irrelevant.

00:49:792 (2,3,4,5,1,2,3) – The flow into (1) did not feel good. The direction that (1,2,3) takes you in does not match the direction you come from (5) which feels grating. http://puu.sh/xRSA4/5d5799883e.jpg
I fixed it for visuals. I didn't notice a problem with flow, but visually it looked disconnected.
00:58:792 (5,6) – This DS is a bit low for a ½ gap, try increasing the scaling up this spacing a bit (the spacing between 01:01:192 (5,6) – was nice) Ok!

01:07:192 (1,2,3) – There's that issue from 00:05:842 (4,5,6) – , and perhaps that will fix my other concern about the use of all these patterns through 01:14:992 (4,5,6) - . This is a pretty calm section of the map, but this pattern is pretty hard to read and is kind of complex. It's not a bad pattern to play, but it doesn't feel appropriate in this calm section of the map. Even though valid, I feel like keeping it is better, as it represents the song changing it's base rhythm to where 3 is higher pitch than 2. A slider can't represent this, so I used circles instead. The argument of it contradicting another pattern in the song is not very powerful either. Considering most of the gimmick in my reading is repeating the rhythm, but differently, both remain perfectly readable from all playtesters.

01:16:792 (1) – In this bookmark section of the song, I see the same rhythm and same kind of pattern, so it got a little tedious. One thing you can do is include more spacing. Another might be to add a few more circles to provide variety. So at 01:19:792 (4,5,6) - , you could turn (5) into two circles to go with that background drum note on 01:20:242 – and do a little jump like: http://puu.sh/xRTbP/1166d46ba8.jpg . Maybe you like only one of the suggestions, but try doing something a little different through 01:34:192 (4) - . Interesting suggestion, but I will remain with what I currently have since the song rather calms down here. It keeps the relatively high note density, while still being calm.

02:16:192 (1) – I didn't like the multi-reverse slider. Can you find a different way to add variety? Wait, you did, sometimes you do two sliders and sometimes you do slider and two circles. I really think multi-reverse is suboptimal, and I think that the additional variety is not worth the suboptimal rhythm. I replaced them with what I wanted to but forgot. Interestingly I didn't add them for variety, but since sometimes there is a chime at the end that I don't want a slider tail on.

02:49:192 (1,3) – this looks different from 02:48:592 (1,2) – and that's weird. It's not worth it aesthetically to do this kind of flow since it doesn't fit with what you've done before. I know you can make other nice flows, so please try a different one here, even if it's just like this: http://puu.sh/xRTte/3644ca6dc9.jpg I have no clue what you meant.

02:53:392 (3,4) – Increase DS a little bit too show that it's a ½ gap? Wait why?
1: I don't need to show it is a 1/2 gap as it is a repeated rhythm, so players should already know what it is.
2: The DS is high enough already imo.

Rest of the sections of the map are similar to the ones I talked about, so consider those suggestions there as well.

If there are any specific questions or specific patterns you want me feedback on, let me know in game.

Good luck!

handsome wrote:

needs more hitsounds, like whistles, maybe custom samples I completely agree, but I don't know how to hitsound well..

00:23:392 (1,1,2,3) - far too abrupt of a pattern change compared to what was introduced before. the combination of SV change, stack, slidershape and spacing makes it all too jarring to read at first glance. it is fair compared to the rest of the map, but its just really unfitting here. could keep it if you introduce the usage of 1/8 sliders early, maybe like here 00:05:242 (2,3) - I decided I am not good enough to manage SV changes at my level, and reduced it into something simpler.
00:37:792 (1,2,3,4) - ^ introduces this well, but i still do think the spacing is a little over the top (rest of the map just feels boring if theres only a 'few' hard parts) I will keep this in mind whenever I start to diddle with SV changes mr handsome
00:39:592 (1,2) - 1/2 spacing isn't properly expressed here. would probably stack 00:39:592 (1,2) - like 00:44:392 (1,1) - I want to keep it as it currently is, unless this is way more serious than I think it is.
00:46:792 (1,2,3) - i get the whole flip and stack things you have going on here, but it's not obvious at all especially to the player. should probably opt for something easier to read since this looks like its compromising gameplay for aesthetics. imagine replacing 00:47:092 (2) - with a circle, it just looks weird to play. Replaced with a stack to still represent the unique sound in a unique way.
00:59:092 (6) - similarly, 1/2 spacing isn't expressed well. could probably throw an NC here, it would help. honestly, i would replace this with a circle, so that it gives 00:59:392 (7) - more emphasis. plus, if you do that it just makes it all the more readable. I am trying a different kind of emphasis, where 00:59:092 (6) - is used to feign the direction of the next object. This is like spacing emphasis, since the cursor is further away that if it was still a circle. Also I don't think the rhythm is enough of a problem to overcome this advantage.
01:15:592 (7) - 01:34:792 (6) - see 00:37:192 (5,1,1,2,3,4) - or I fixed the second one you pointed out, as I liked the one you asked me to turn it into more. For the first one, I believe that the changing the pattern slightly to match the song's section would be more appropriate.
02:16:192 (1) - i felt that this was teh best representation of the synth drop, compared to 02:18:592 (1,2) - 02:20:992 (1,2,3) - etc. I agree slightly? The slider reverse however feels to weak. I will trust your judgement tho.
02:42:292 (2,3,4) - also, confusing when you had just established 02:37:192 (1,2,3,4) - thsi thing Right I forgot to use the strange shapes.

yeah and that's about it since it all repeats

Nostalgic wrote:

• 
  

  very cold.

1. 00:00:892 (4) - i doubt if u need to map this recorder sound. if i were u i would simply make the rhythm consistent with 00:02:392 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - Absolutely not for 2 reasons. 1: I wanna make the 3/4 gap readable. 2: this would be severe undermapping.
2. 00:20:992 (6,8) - u should be putting emphasis on these two sounds, so why not dong something like this. (and this applies to all subsequent iterations) this I am on the edge about. If I do this, it could be too difficult for this skill level. I will wait for complaints.
3. 00:50:692 (3,4) - the snapping here is a bit too implicit to read. there should be a more creative way to place them. I tried something newer.
4. 01:01:492 (6) - 01:06:292 (6) - 01:11:092 (8) - and more: nc I lowered NC density because of the calmness of the song.
5. 02:13:592 (2) - ik its 1/3 but a slider here is a bit underwhelming. try this instead? I replaced the reverse if that is what you mean, but I am keeping the bubbles.
6. 02:14:392 (1) - the electronic sound u want to express here should be matched with a rather slow sv. its a typical 'slow-sv' sound in most of the wub maps. that's why i think u can do some sv manipulation here in kiai I was thinking of this while mapping it, but considering the fact I have committed to an SV stable map in handsome's mod, I will keep this the way it is using low spacing to show the slow synth.
7. 02:58:492 (4) - ctrl g, or any other way that hints at the 1/2 gap No? I am using a repeating rhythm, so at this point players should have gotten the clue.
8. I guess I will stop here bc the song simply loops again. A very solid map. GL Thank you very much :blush:

only available at weekends these days, being a senior student is never easy. sorry for the delay

Nostalgic wrote:

• 
  

  very cold.

1. 00:00:892 (4) - i doubt if u need to map this recorder sound. if i were u i would simply make the rhythm consistent with 00:02:392 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) -
2. 00:20:992 (6,8) - u should be putting emphasis on these two sounds, so why not dong something like this. (and this applies to all subsequent iterations)
3. 00:50:692 (3,4) - the snapping here is a bit too implicit to read. there should be a more creative way to place them.
4. 01:01:492 (6) - 01:06:292 (6) - 01:11:092 (8) - and more: nc
5. 02:13:592 (2) - ik its 1/3 but a slider here is a bit underwhelming. try this instead?
6. 02:14:392 (1) - the electronic sound u want to express here should be matched with a rather slow sv. its a typical 'slow-sv' sound in most of the wub maps. that's why i think u can do some sv manipulation here in kiai
7. 02:58:492 (4) - ctrl g, or any other way that hints at the 1/2 gap
8. I guess I will stop here bc the song simply loops again. A very solid map. GL

only available at weekends these days, being a senior student is never easy. sorry for the delay

Manteith wrote:

I haven't noticed anything bad in your map. GJ.

2zz wrote:

4m4

gnr

offset and timing point looks awful
here needed some silence before start

https://puu.sh/y2TMK/538e2a9eb0.mp3 - try to replace your audio and change offset

also you can just paste it in diff.osu instead of yours

all inh-points saved and moved
ofc I could mistake for few ms, but it ez to fix
Ctrl+A for circles

[TimingPoints]
636,600,4,2,0,40,1,0
636,-194.174757281553,4,2,0,40,0,0
936,-200,4,2,0,40,0,0
3036,-200,4,2,0,40,0,0
5436,-222.222222222222,4,2,0,35,0,0
10236,-250,4,2,0,30,0,0
15036,-285.714285714286,4,2,0,25,0,0
18486,-200,4,2,0,25,0,0
19836,-133.333333333333,4,2,0,40,0,0
23736,-100,4,2,0,40,0,0
24036,-133.333333333333,4,2,0,40,0,0
28536,-100,4,2,0,40,0,0
28836,-133.333333333333,4,2,0,40,0,0
33336,-100,4,2,0,40,0,0
33636,-133.333333333333,4,2,0,40,0,0
38136,-100,4,2,0,40,0,0
38436,-133.333333333333,4,2,0,40,0,0
39036,-100,4,2,0,40,0,0
45036,-200,4,2,0,40,0,0
45636,-100,4,2,0,40,0,0
47436,-66.6666666666667,4,2,0,40,0,0
48636,-100,4,2,0,40,0,0
54636,-200,4,2,0,40,0,0
55236,-100,4,2,0,40,0,0
57036,-66.6666666666667,4,2,0,40,0,0
58236,-133.333333333333,4,2,0,40,0,0
62136,-100,4,2,0,40,0,0
62436,-133.333333333333,4,2,0,40,0,0
66936,-100,4,2,0,40,0,0
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297336,-100,4,2,0,40,0,0
297636,-133.333333333333,4,2,0,40,0,0
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302436,-133.333333333333,4,2,0,40,0,0
306936,-100,4,2,0,40,0,0
307236,-133.333333333333,4,2,0,40,0,0
307986,-200,4,2,0,5,0,0

Ye problem is I can;t seem to acess your MP3 . I see what you are doing, and I think I can take it from here thanks!

call me back, if that broken

Got it.


[/color]

vr cd

dot in diff name really needed? here no another dots, nor in songname, nor in artist. Well I like to use dots in my difficulties, and for now it has not caused any problems. It shouldn't really as it is still ascii.

00:03:036 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - ctrl+H?
00:07:836 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - ^? Why? I am positioning them in a different place on the playfield to both show off their unique patterns, and to separate them.
00:39:898 (1) - maybe make it and other next more winding? I dunno what you mean.
00:47:736 (2,3,1) - it was unexpected on first try, but not bad Thanks?

so, I dont see problems in map itself. But it can be bored i guess.

MrSergio wrote:

We did talk about the first half of the map via IRC in a rather general view.
I have logs somewhere but I gotta go so I will edit later~

IRC Chat

2017-10-20 21:42 mindmaster107: ah
2017-10-20 21:42 MrSergio: usually structure means more like... rhythm, flow, aesthetics... everything together
2017-10-20 21:42 mindmaster107: ah so not just visuals
2017-10-20 21:42 MrSergio: but here it was more of a visual representation of the rhythm
2017-10-20 21:43 MrSergio: in my mind I had this: the song is all the same, why is the pattern changing shape ???
2017-10-20 21:43 MrSergio: so ye
2017-10-20 21:43 mindmaster107: ye I agree with you, with the knowledge I have gained from mapping my other song
2017-10-20 21:43 mindmaster107: so to recap
2017-10-20 21:43 mindmaster107: 1. Fix beginning
2017-10-20 21:43 mindmaster107: 2. make spacing clearer, and follow only snares in post-kiai
2017-10-20 21:44 mindmaster107: 3. profit?
2017-10-20 21:44 mindmaster107: if this is fixed, is this good enough for ranked?
2017-10-20 21:44 MrSergio: I wish I could find a nice way to also make this somewhat more playable for myself but I guess I just can't come up with anything right now 00:40:354 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1) -
2017-10-20 21:44 MrSergio: I just checked the first 1/3 of the song xD
2017-10-20 21:44 MrSergio: idk
2017-10-20 21:44 MrSergio: let me see
2017-10-20 21:44 mindmaster107: XD
2017-10-20 21:44 MrSergio: oh, small things like
2017-10-20 21:44 MrSergio: 01:00:118 (2,3,4,5,1) -
2017-10-20 21:45 MrSergio: if you move 01:00:471 (3,4,5) - closer to the next slider it is easier
2017-10-20 21:45 MrSergio: there is an explanation for that
2017-10-20 21:45 MrSergio: clicking and moving together is hard, that's obvious, right?
2017-10-20 21:45 mindmaster107: ye that is what I used for the kiai
2017-10-20 21:45 mindmaster107: I see what you mean now
2017-10-20 21:45 MrSergio: but
2017-10-20 21:46 MrSergio: first moving and then clicking is easier than first clicking than moving
2017-10-20 21:46 MrSergio: and then moving*
2017-10-20 21:46 MrSergio: so putting the jump at 01:00:118 (2,3) - makes it easier to catch
2017-10-20 21:46 MrSergio: since it's a calmer part, making it hard to play seems kinda evil to me xD
2017-10-20 21:46 mindmaster107: I still want to keep the visual spacing, so I would just replace with with a repeat slider
2017-10-20 21:47 MrSergio: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9356125 possibility
2017-10-20 21:47 MrSergio: or you could make it a non-stacked stream or idk... see yourself
2017-10-20 21:47 MrSergio: 01:02:589 (2,3,4) - kinda same reasoning
2017-10-20 21:47 mindmaster107: well
2017-10-20 21:47 mindmaster107: this is to hit the snare
2017-10-20 21:47 mindmaster107: remember
2017-10-20 21:47 mindmaster107: so this is intentional
2017-10-20 21:47 MrSergio: umh...
2017-10-20 21:48 MrSergio: then one more reason to make the rule about snares more obvious
2017-10-20 21:48 MrSergio: but I guess it is worth mentioning this
2017-10-20 21:48 MrSergio: there is a way to make low spacing feel more emphasized than large spacing
2017-10-20 21:48 MrSergio: which is the base concept of using those cool SV changes on wub maps, if you ever saw them
2017-10-20 21:49 mindmaster107: I tried SV on my newer map
2017-10-20 21:49 MrSergio: take 01:02:236 (1,2,3,4) -
2017-10-20 21:49 MrSergio: there is a way to make 01:02:942 (4) - stronger than what it is right now
2017-10-20 21:49 MrSergio: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9356141
2017-10-20 21:49 MrSergio: "why does it feel more emphasized that way?"
2017-10-20 21:50 MrSergio: have you ever thought aobut how sliders work?
2017-10-20 21:50 MrSergio: like... they are not like circles
2017-10-20 21:50 MrSergio: you gotta follow their track and their speed
2017-10-20 21:50 MrSergio: no matter what
2017-10-20 21:50 mindmaster107: hold up I wanna screen cap that
2017-10-20 21:50 MrSergio: so here's the catch:
2017-10-20 21:50 MrSergio: you can /savelog
2017-10-20 21:50 MrSergio: lol
2017-10-20 21:51 MrSergio: the catch on that pattern is the fact you "smash against the slider"
2017-10-20 21:51 MrSergio: what I mean by that has to do with the cursor's movement
2017-10-20 21:51 MrSergio: if you take the screen, you notice the fast movement on 01:02:589 (2,3) - , right?
2017-10-20 21:51 MrSergio: (we have a jump, that's clearly a fast movement, isn't it)
2017-10-20 21:52 MrSergio: now, once I have to go hit 01:02:942 (4) - I have a really small jump, a direction change and a slow SV
2017-10-20 21:52 MrSergio: it's like hitting a wall while dricing
2017-10-20 21:52 MrSergio: driving*
2017-10-20 21:52 MrSergio: you were going fast and all of a sudden you have to move slower
2017-10-20 21:52 MrSergio: like... reallly slower
2017-10-20 21:53 MrSergio: this contradiction in movement makes it so that you "feel" more the whole slider body, thus creating more emphasis on the slider head
2017-10-20 21:53 mindmaster107: While I understand what you mean, I still feel uncomfortable working with this kind of emphasis, cus Im not used to it enough, while regular spacing does the job fine
2017-10-20 21:53 MrSergio: well, just try it out and play with it
2017-10-20 21:53 MrSergio: I'm not saying you have to do it
2017-10-20 21:53 MrSergio: but that's one effective way to manage that emphasis there imo
2017-10-20 21:53 MrSergio: with a different rotational angle and SV things might also change, so ye... try it out and see what you like
2017-10-20 21:54 mindmaster107: I will try it in a future map, cus I wanna keep my ideas on this map the same
2017-10-20 21:54 MrSergio: having straight ahead jumps as you have right now for 01:02:589 (2,3,4) - feels more stressing than emphasized tho
2017-10-20 21:54 mindmaster107: stressed and emphasized are different?
2017-10-20 21:54 MrSergio: and the reason to that is because you have to keep moving forward and backwards
2017-10-20 21:54 MrSergio: yes
2017-10-20 21:54 MrSergio: they are
2017-10-20 21:55 MrSergio: stress is simply "hard" without any emphasis addition
2017-10-20 21:55 mindmaster107: ha?
2017-10-20 21:55 mindmaster107: wait how does that work
2017-10-20 21:55 mindmaster107: you feel stressed by the movement, and that shows off the sound
2017-10-20 21:55 MrSergio: usually something like [https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9356188 this] is just stress
2017-10-20 21:56 MrSergio: the reason to that is that you move forward to catch the next circle, right?
2017-10-20 21:56 MrSergio: but at the same time, you have to stop your cursor, so you have to put an opposite force to your direction
2017-10-20 21:56 MrSergio: so doing straight ahead jumps means forcing your hand to make quick right-left movements to catch each circle
2017-10-20 21:57 MrSergio: as the spacing increases, the more stressing it becomes
2017-10-20 21:57 mindmaster107: I guess flow+spacing together is simply not easy for me to comprehend
2017-10-20 21:57 MrSergio: the fact you exercise an opposite force to the initial forces makes it lose all the emphasis
2017-10-20 21:57 MrSergio: yea... you see... I usually explain this stuff in around 4 hours to my mentees
2017-10-20 21:57 MrSergio: it takes a lot of time
2017-10-20 21:57 MrSergio: and it's not easy either
2017-10-20 21:57 mindmaster107: btw
2017-10-20 21:57 mindmaster107: https://i.ppy.sh/c9d9ebcdf1707e03562e69 ... 6e2e706e67
2017-10-20 21:58 MrSergio: the gist is that the movement in the screen I sent you is just stress
2017-10-20 21:58 mindmaster107: what if stress is put in contrast of everything else?
2017-10-20 21:58 MrSergio: and that's what you do on your current pattern at 01:02:589 (2,3,4) -
2017-10-20 21:58 mindmaster107: or is that not direct enough
2017-10-20 21:58 MrSergio: umh...
2017-10-20 21:58 MrSergio: it really really depends
2017-10-20 21:58 mindmaster107: ye my ideas are not very bold here
2017-10-20 21:58 MrSergio: since there are different ways to make something stressful
2017-10-20 21:59 MrSergio: just think of how many possibilities to place your objects you have
2017-10-20 21:59 MrSergio: it's the same: you have inifinte possibilities to make something stressful
2017-10-20 21:59 MrSergio: so I can't say for sure
2017-10-20 21:59 MrSergio: the mapper's job is making whatever rule he went for be really obvious to anyone who plays it
2017-10-20 22:00 MrSergio: so in case you do apply that stress-contrast rule, you have to make it obvious
2017-10-20 22:00 mindmaster107: well I will keep this in mind for future maps, cus I think making the map better contradicts my core flawed ideas
2017-10-20 22:00 mindmaster107: in this one
2017-10-20 22:00 MrSergio: whether it is fitting or not can be discussed later on, but you as a mapper have to make it clear first
2017-10-20 22:00 mindmaster107: I did keep the contrast in mind in my current map
2017-10-20 22:00 MrSergio: heh...
2017-10-20 22:00 MrSergio: that last statement is kinda... lol
2017-10-20 22:00 MrSergio: the "flawed" stuff
2017-10-20 22:01 mindmaster107: cus everything you are saying goes against one of the ideas I wanted in the map
2017-10-20 22:01 MrSergio: you see, HW doesn't make flawed patterns
2017-10-20 22:01 MrSergio: she just uses a concept to its extreme
2017-10-20 22:01 mindmaster107: ik and I am using an idea which is in essence not great
2017-10-20 22:01 MrSergio: so like... everything has a logic and you understand that, but at the same time it is so stretched you can't keep up with it
2017-10-20 22:02 mindmaster107: ah
2017-10-20 22:02 MrSergio: so you come to hate it because you know how to play it but can't play it
2017-10-20 22:02 MrSergio: you can't because you're not fast enough or can't click enough or whatever
2017-10-20 22:02 mindmaster107: well that is the beauty of HW maps or something
2017-10-20 22:02 MrSergio: but you know what to do/follow
2017-10-20 22:03 MrSergio: that being said, I'm not sure how this applies to this map in specific right now
2017-10-20 22:03 MrSergio: we kind of went offtopic
2017-10-20 22:03 mindmaster107: XD
2017-10-20 22:03 mindmaster107: well still
2017-10-20 22:03 mindmaster107: good to know
2017-10-20 22:03 mindmaster107: if I wanna make a HW imitation
2017-10-20 22:03 mindmaster107: in the future
2017-10-20 22:03 MrSergio: so keep in mind that concept about the slider body emphasis
2017-10-20 22:03 MrSergio: it's one way to do it
2017-10-20 22:03 MrSergio: doing it the opposite way feels more stressful than emphasized
2017-10-20 22:04 MrSergio: (and you did)
2017-10-20 22:04 mindmaster107: ye. I can safely abandon this one for now, and just focus on my newer map, cus it has a more clear idea
2017-10-20 22:04 MrSergio: but ye... I believe this map is a better starting point than no map, since you have a list of the things you can do/work well, and a list of the things that don't
2017-10-20 22:05 mindmaster107: it is more painful going through old ideas cus they are no longer good
2017-10-20 22:05 MrSergio: I wish I still had my old 3 years map
2017-10-20 22:05 mindmaster107: than to restart
2017-10-20 22:05 MrSergio: it would have been a great example
2017-10-20 22:05 mindmaster107: for me at least
2017-10-20 22:05 MrSergio: since I remapped that same song not long ago
2017-10-20 22:05 MrSergio: umh..
2017-10-20 22:06 MrSergio: that may be true, but you might as well be misinterpreting yourself there
2017-10-20 22:06 MrSergio: it is easy to restart? yes
2017-10-20 22:06 MrSergio: but why?
2017-10-20 22:06 MrSergio: because you know what you want to achieve
2017-10-20 22:06 mindmaster107: mhm
2017-10-20 22:06 mindmaster107: and I know the faults I had made
2017-10-20 22:06 MrSergio: if you didn't map at first the song you'd have a hard time deciding what to do
2017-10-20 22:06 MrSergio: that's why even having a not-good map is a good starting point, if not better, than no map at all
2017-10-20 22:06 MrSergio: I remapped the same song 4 times once
2017-10-20 22:07 MrSergio: the last time I remapped it took me one afternoon alone and it was far better than any previous version
2017-10-20 22:07 mindmaster107: I see the prospect of remapping ye
2017-10-20 22:07 MrSergio: and that's because I knew the road: I knew where the traps where and what I should do
2017-10-20 22:07 mindmaster107: but I havent advanced enough to see how to clearly fix many things
2017-10-20 22:07 MrSergio: it was like replaying the same level of a game
2017-10-20 22:07 MrSergio: ye
2017-10-20 22:07 MrSergio: that's why that map of 3 years ago would have been a good example
2017-10-20 22:08 mindmaster107: I understand what you mean entierly
2017-10-20 22:08 MrSergio: the difference in 3 years of experience is like abyssal to say the least
2017-10-20 22:08 mindmaster107: and hopefully in the future, I will remap this into something great
2017-10-20 22:08 mindmaster107: er
2017-10-20 22:08 MrSergio: I can ensure you that you will
2017-10-20 22:08 mindmaster107: and my current map
2017-10-20 22:08 MrSergio: I never heard of any mapper become worse as time passes
2017-10-20 22:09 mindmaster107: XD
2017-10-20 22:09 mindmaster107: btw
2017-10-20 22:09 mindmaster107: can I get a quick look at the newer map?
2017-10-20 22:09 mindmaster107: after a few mods ironing out my brain farts
2017-10-20 22:09 mindmaster107: it feels already better than my old map
2017-10-20 22:09 mindmaster107: ACTION is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1431875 Wisp X - Frozen Leaves]
2017-10-20 22:09 mindmaster107: albeit I dunno how good it is objectivly
2017-10-20 22:10 mindmaster107: not for an icon no, cus imm still trying to get mods
2017-10-20 22:10 mindmaster107: but is there anything glaring I am once again missing
2017-10-20 22:12 MrSergio: uh, moment, they called me and I have to search for something
2017-10-20 22:12 MrSergio: brb in 5 minutes
2017-10-20 22:13 mindmaster107: ok
2017-10-20 22:13 mindmaster107: no problem
2017-10-20 22:21 MrSergio: back
2017-10-20 22:22 mindmaster107: ooooo
2017-10-20 22:22 mindmaster107: thank you so much for you time XD
2017-10-20 22:23 MrSergio: looking at 00:08:242 (4,5,6,7) - it feels like you broke the concept from 00:05:842 (4,5,6) -
2017-10-20 22:23 mindmaster107: clearly tho this time
2017-10-20 22:23 MrSergio: what would have been expected with this much consistency was to have first 00:09:292 (7) - and then 00:08:992 (6) -
2017-10-20 22:23 MrSergio: although it's not a big deal
2017-10-20 22:23 MrSergio: I mean, it's clearly a different part so you don't have to stick to consistency thaat much
2017-10-20 22:24 mindmaster107: ^^
2017-10-20 22:24 MrSergio: 00:19:492 (2,3,4) - this visual spacing might be misleading tho, since they are in the same combo
2017-10-20 22:24 mindmaster107: ?
2017-10-20 22:24 mindmaster107: ok how so?
2017-10-20 22:25 MrSergio: 00:19:492 (2,3) - 1/4 gap
2017-10-20 22:25 MrSergio: 00:19:792 (3,4) - 1/2 gap
2017-10-20 22:25 MrSergio: same visual spacing
2017-10-20 22:25 mindmaster107: ah
2017-10-20 22:25 mindmaster107: ?
2017-10-20 22:25 mindmaster107: oh
2017-10-20 22:25 mindmaster107: I see
2017-10-20 22:25 MrSergio: in actual gameplay no one really cares, but in the long run it might feel like you don't know how spacing works so ye
2017-10-20 22:25 mindmaster107: oh so it isn;t a problem
2017-10-20 22:25 MrSergio: I mean, it's again about contrast: similar things using similar concepts, different things using different oncepts
2017-10-20 22:26 MrSergio: not a big one
2017-10-20 22:26 MrSergio: I would care
2017-10-20 22:26 MrSergio: someone might not
2017-10-20 22:26 MrSergio: I would personally stack 3 on top of 4
2017-10-20 22:26 mindmaster107: well I changed it cus the high pitched instrument stopped here, and kept it like this cus I wanted spacing to stay the main focus
2017-10-20 22:27 mindmaster107: are there any map-failing issues in my map xP
2017-10-20 22:27 MrSergio: 00:20:992 (6,7,8,9) - this is more on hitsounds: claps are better suited for single hits, not streams. The way it plays with hitsounds, it feels like the only important beats are the ones with the clap, while the other two are just filler rhythm
2017-10-20 22:27 MrSergio: don't think so
2017-10-20 22:27 mindmaster107: well no not just the beginning
2017-10-20 22:28 mindmaster107: the beginning im proud of
2017-10-20 22:28 MrSergio: 00:39:592 (1,2) - just that spacing keeps popping up which for some reasons tilts me
2017-10-20 22:28 MrSergio: lol
2017-10-20 22:28 mindmaster107: XD
2017-10-20 22:29 MrSergio: 00:47:242 (3) - if you delete stuff like this you create better contrast with 00:47:392 (1,2,3,4) -
2017-10-20 22:29 mindmaster107: I ignored pedantic rhythm cus I knew it would be readable
2017-10-20 22:29 MrSergio: heh, not always
2017-10-20 22:29 mindmaster107: ye
2017-10-20 22:29 mindmaster107: I made sure it was readable
2017-10-20 22:29 MrSergio: I mean, it's ok to assume certain things, but be careful since not everyone assumes the same conclusions
2017-10-20 22:29 mindmaster107: I tested my map with a 6 digit
2017-10-20 22:29 mindmaster107: I think im ok
2017-10-20 22:29 MrSergio: what's obvious for me, might not be for you, etc...
2017-10-20 22:30 mindmaster107: well fair I understand
2017-10-20 22:30 MrSergio: (this is just a general warning)
2017-10-20 22:30 mindmaster107: ik
2017-10-20 22:30 MrSergio: 00:50:092 (4,5,1) - stuff about straight jumps pt.2
2017-10-20 22:30 MrSergio: but the stack on 1 might make up for it
2017-10-20 22:30 MrSergio: not big anyway
2017-10-20 22:30 mindmaster107: I got told in a mod to do this
2017-10-20 22:30 mindmaster107: cus in another section I did something else
2017-10-20 22:31 mindmaster107: and the complained
2017-10-20 22:31 mindmaster107: I think it is due to the lower bpm
2017-10-20 22:31 mindmaster107: that I can get away with more things
2017-10-20 22:31 MrSergio: indeed the lower BPM allows you to a lot of stuff that otherwise would feel way more strange
2017-10-20 22:31 MrSergio: eg 01:20:992 (8,9,10) -
2017-10-20 22:32 mindmaster107: well low spacing helps too
2017-10-20 22:32 mindmaster107: cus people can smoothly transition
2017-10-20 22:32 MrSergio: I mean, it would have been cool if you used this concept of varied spacing a bit more, but it just pops up sometimes so it feels like... "wut"
2017-10-20 22:32 mindmaster107: well is that bad
2017-10-20 22:32 mindmaster107: ?
2017-10-20 22:33 mindmaster107: I tried making my ideas bolder through high contrast
2017-10-20 22:33 MrSergio: it is not great
2017-10-20 22:33 mindmaster107: maybe too high?
2017-10-20 22:33 MrSergio: well, a constant 1/4 rhythm doesn't allow for much contrast by default, be careful
2017-10-20 22:33 mindmaster107: maybe im using spacing too sparingly
2017-10-20 22:33 MrSergio: so even if you add these variation it doesn't stand out too much anyway
2017-10-20 22:34 MrSergio: in fact, it's the opposite, they stand out a bit as being random (even tho it's a concept appearing in a seldom manner)
2017-10-20 22:34 mindmaster107: thank low spacing and bpm for my ideas being acceptable XD
2017-10-20 22:34 mindmaster107: it isn;t bad, it is just at higher bpm, the negatives become way more prominant
2017-10-20 22:34 MrSergio: but again, there is no exact rule allowing the player to anticipate where they will have to make that small movement and where not if not by looking at the map
2017-10-20 22:35 MrSergio: 01:22:192 (3,4) -
2017-10-20 22:35 mindmaster107: ?
2017-10-20 22:35 MrSergio: and by rule I mean: hints you get from the song
2017-10-20 22:35 MrSergio: "when you hear X, do Y"
2017-10-20 22:35 mindmaster107: wait the rule is snare, do jump
2017-10-20 22:35 MrSergio: why is 01:22:192 (3,4) - not with small spacing? xD
2017-10-20 22:36 mindmaster107: it is large cus 3 is snare
2017-10-20 22:36 mindmaster107: I dunno why it is circles
2017-10-20 22:36 mindmaster107: imma change that
2017-10-20 22:36 MrSergio: 01:19:792 (4) - 01:20:992 (8) - snare but they are sliders
2017-10-20 22:36 MrSergio: ye
2017-10-20 22:36 MrSergio: prolly 01:22:492 (5) - this should have been in circles and with the small spacing concept
2017-10-20 22:37 MrSergio: 01:32:992 (8) - missing clap?
2017-10-20 22:37 MrSergio: 01:34:492 (5) - and this one feels better without the clap
2017-10-20 22:37 MrSergio: (it is not in the song for sure)
2017-10-20 22:38 mindmaster107: ok
2017-10-20 22:38 MrSergio: 01:36:142 (1) - seeing the song being so calm, I would prefer x10 times a break instead of a spinner
2017-10-20 22:38 MrSergio: on spinners you gotta spin like crazy (or at least, you can)
2017-10-20 22:38 MrSergio: assuming average players spin at 370, that's a lot of movement for a really calm part
2017-10-20 22:38 mindmaster107: wait 370
2017-10-20 22:38 mindmaster107: wut
2017-10-20 22:39 MrSergio: 370RPM
2017-10-20 22:39 mindmaster107: lemme test how hard it is on slow bpm
2017-10-20 22:39 mindmaster107: rpm*
2017-10-20 22:39 MrSergio: it's the spinner speed
2017-10-20 22:39 mindmaster107: ye
2017-10-20 22:39 mindmaster107: but
2017-10-20 22:39 MrSergio: not "hard"
2017-10-20 22:39 mindmaster107: who spinns that fast
2017-10-20 22:39 MrSergio: but "unfitting with the calm part"
2017-10-20 22:39 MrSergio: I spin averagely on 400-410 =3=
2017-10-20 22:40 MrSergio: and anything above 200 would be a too fast movement for this part imo lol
2017-10-20 22:40 mindmaster107: I made the spinners long to compensate
2017-10-20 22:40 MrSergio: 01:46:342 (1) - also, the spinner has a beat on a blue tick which doesn't fit at all
2017-10-20 22:40 MrSergio: you ignores how a spinner is played imo xD
2017-10-20 22:40 MrSergio: ignored*
2017-10-20 22:40 mindmaster107: ?
2017-10-20 22:40 mindmaster107: the beginning of a spinner is not distinct
2017-10-20 22:40 MrSergio: and we should blame nowadays' standards on mapping
2017-10-20 22:41 MrSergio: spinners are meant for intense parts of the song
2017-10-20 22:41 MrSergio: like a really crazy stream you can't replicate with circles
2017-10-20 22:42 mindmaster107: image material tho
2017-10-20 22:42 MrSergio: what many mappers do to fit the 5 minutes for approval is definitely one of the few things I can say are "wrong"
2017-10-20 22:42 mindmaster107: did this in 2013
2017-10-20 22:42 MrSergio: who said it's correct, lol
2017-10-20 22:42 mindmaster107: not for approval
2017-10-20 22:42 MrSergio: I mean
2017-10-20 22:42 MrSergio: ye
2017-10-20 22:42 MrSergio: there will be exceptions
2017-10-20 22:42 MrSergio: spinners, in the original game, were meant for crazy streams you couldn't click with your stick on the touchscreen
2017-10-20 22:43 mindmaster107: and for end caps ye
2017-10-20 22:43 mindmaster107: I played it too!
2017-10-20 22:43 mindmaster107: good old days
2017-10-20 22:43 mindmaster107: of 2006
2017-10-20 22:43 MrSergio: (assuming you know that osu is derived from a Nintendo DS game called "osu tatakae Ouendan")
2017-10-20 22:43 mindmaster107: eyyyyy
2017-10-20 22:43 mindmaster107: yep so did I
2017-10-20 22:43 MrSergio: anyway
2017-10-20 22:43 MrSergio: the thing here is that I find a spinner unfitting for a calm part
2017-10-20 22:43 MrSergio: no one is gonna spin slowly to match the song's pace
2017-10-20 22:44 MrSergio: it means losing points after all
2017-10-20 22:44 mindmaster107: ok maybe new players are being lazy spinners
2017-10-20 22:44 mindmaster107: XD
2017-10-20 22:44 MrSergio: a break would be way better
2017-10-20 22:44 mindmaster107: cus everyone I know spinns lazily
2017-10-20 22:44 mindmaster107: cookiezi style
2017-10-20 22:44 MrSergio: well, you're considering this from how people plays it, not how it is supposed to be played
2017-10-20 22:45 mindmaster107: kinda?
2017-10-20 22:45 mindmaster107: I am getting from test players
2017-10-20 22:45 MrSergio: heh... you're not the only one
2017-10-20 22:45 mindmaster107: so maybe there is a divide
2017-10-20 22:45 MrSergio: things just cahnged over time
2017-10-20 22:45 MrSergio: I can ensure you the spinner wasn't created for slow parts
2017-10-20 22:45 mindmaster107: can I get the escuxe of using modern mapping techniques?
2017-10-20 22:45 MrSergio: the fact we used it like that nowadays is clearly a mistake imo
2017-10-20 22:45 mindmaster107: also without them I would be under 5 mins drain
2017-10-20 22:46 mindmaster107:
2017-10-20 22:46 MrSergio: not really, since this sound is too soft even for that tbh
2017-10-20 22:46 MrSergio: LOL
2017-10-20 22:46 MrSergio: see? that's why I hate nowadays mapping
2017-10-20 22:46 mindmaster107: XD
2017-10-20 22:46 MrSergio: keep them... I guess
2017-10-20 22:46 mindmaster107: well depends on how you see it
2017-10-20 22:46 MrSergio: silence their ends
2017-10-20 22:46 mindmaster107: I did
2017-10-20 22:46 mindmaster107: kinda
2017-10-20 22:46 MrSergio: I don't wanna hear a blue tick beat
2017-10-20 22:46 mindmaster107: 5% and soft
2017-10-20 22:46 mindmaster107: I can't hear them
2017-10-20 22:46 MrSergio: also, stuff like 02:04:792 (1,2) - could have silenced ends
2017-10-20 22:47 MrSergio: 02:13:192 (1) - if you make this a repeat it would be easier to hit a triple after it
2017-10-20 22:47 mindmaster107: yep fixed those
2017-10-20 22:47 mindmaster107: erm
2017-10-20 22:47 mindmaster107: second one
2017-10-20 22:47 MrSergio: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9356581
2017-10-20 22:48 MrSergio: oh, 02:16:192 (1) - kinda misleading
2017-10-20 22:48 mindmaster107: I think there are many ways to represent the 1/3
2017-10-20 22:48 MrSergio: it is uncommon to have 2 repeats
2017-10-20 22:48 MrSergio: ye, there are
2017-10-20 22:48 mindmaster107: right
2017-10-20 22:48 MrSergio: some ways make it easier
2017-10-20 22:48 MrSergio: some ways make it harder
2017-10-20 22:48 MrSergio: some ways make it also messier
2017-10-20 22:48 MrSergio:
2017-10-20 22:48 mindmaster107: well I made it match the song, and asethetics
2017-10-20 22:48 mindmaster107: it is definatly not hard
2017-10-20 22:48 MrSergio: grouping similar sounds makes it cleaner and easier
2017-10-20 22:49 mindmaster107: a 200k player made it through just fine
2017-10-20 22:49 MrSergio: that's not the point lol xD
2017-10-20 22:49 mindmaster107: the reverses
2017-10-20 22:49 mindmaster107: ye imma change it
2017-10-20 22:49 MrSergio: there will always be someone who can play it
2017-10-20 22:49 MrSergio: the fact someone managed to doesn't mean it is "great" or "it works" (not necessarily)
2017-10-20 22:49 MrSergio: so instead, think of the logic behind it and if that makes sense
2017-10-20 22:50 MrSergio: if it does, THEN we can say it fits
2017-10-20 22:50 MrSergio: (think of how expert players can even play crap maps. That doesn't make the map good, right?)
2017-10-20 22:50 mindmaster107: The spider tails land on less intense sounds, while the triple does too
2017-10-20 22:50 mindmaster107: the middle sound inthe triple is oddly less intense
2017-10-20 22:50 mindmaster107: and this is expressed?
2017-10-20 22:51 mindmaster107: so that is my reasoning
2017-10-20 22:51 MrSergio: then what about trying to make the flow between 02:13:192 (1,2) - a bit better
2017-10-20 22:51 mindmaster107: also keeping as it is, would keep the aesthetics
2017-10-20 22:51 MrSergio: see how you go cw on 02:13:192 (1) -
2017-10-20 22:51 MrSergio: then stop
2017-10-20 22:51 MrSergio: go on 02:13:592 (2) -
2017-10-20 22:51 MrSergio: and start moving again cw
2017-10-20 22:51 mindmaster107: I made the flow slightly awkward cus of the sudden change
2017-10-20 22:52 mindmaster107: it shouldn't be too big of a down side, as it is all small spacing
2017-10-20 22:52 MrSergio: 02:13:192 (1) - is already akward tho
2017-10-20 22:52 mindmaster107: oh
2017-10-20 22:52 mindmaster107: into the first object
2017-10-20 22:52 MrSergio: the suggestion: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9356613
2017-10-20 22:52 mindmaster107: wait how
2017-10-20 22:52 mindmaster107: would that fix it
2017-10-20 22:52 MrSergio: see how the jump after 1 follows 1's direction
2017-10-20 22:52 MrSergio: because the change happens only when you click on 2
2017-10-20 22:53 MrSergio: in you current pattern you have two changes: after you release 1 || once you hit 2
2017-10-20 22:53 MrSergio: so it's a back and forth which adds stress
2017-10-20 22:53 mindmaster107: 1 is meant to be held
2017-10-20 22:53 MrSergio: ye...
2017-10-20 22:53 mindmaster107: :thinking:
2017-10-20 22:54 MrSergio: well, try playing it. Imo it works better
2017-10-20 22:54 MrSergio: the exact reason "why" lies withing angles and emphasis
2017-10-20 22:54 MrSergio: (the stuff that takes me 4 hours to explain)
2017-10-20 22:54 mindmaster107: even if it flows better, my point of messing up flow slightly for the shift in musical tone still stands
2017-10-20 22:54 mindmaster107: which is why im sticking with this
2017-10-20 22:55 MrSergio: "messing"... lol, that's a new reason xD
2017-10-20 22:55 mindmaster107: messing
2017-10-20 22:55 MrSergio: never heard it, but alright
2017-10-20 22:55 mindmaster107: ok
2017-10-20 22:55 mindmaster107: bad work
2017-10-20 22:55 mindmaster107: word
2017-10-20 22:55 MrSergio: usually messing things up is not a positive thing
2017-10-20 22:55 mindmaster107: XD
2017-10-20 22:55 mindmaster107: the song really is strange here tho
2017-10-20 22:55 MrSergio: making it strange can be a reason, depending on the song
2017-10-20 22:55 MrSergio: but this song looks rather clean/simple
2017-10-20 22:55 MrSergio: even in that passage
2017-10-20 22:55 MrSergio: but alright
2017-10-20 22:56 mindmaster107: the repeating sliders tho
2017-10-20 22:56 mindmaster107: how to fix
2017-10-20 22:56 mindmaster107: this was recommended by handsome to use
2017-10-20 22:56 mindmaster107: cus I had something worse before
2017-10-20 22:57 MrSergio: umh..
2017-10-20 22:57 MrSergio: if you repmove last repeat and add a circle is fixed
2017-10-20 22:57 MrSergio: the question is "where you place that circle to make it fitting"
2017-10-20 22:57 mindmaster107: that worked very badly
2017-10-20 22:57 MrSergio: or
2017-10-20 22:57 mindmaster107: cus the circle was too special
2017-10-20 22:57 MrSergio: you could just use 2 sliders
2017-10-20 22:58 mindmaster107: that I tried too
2017-10-20 22:58 mindmaster107: but handsome complained about it cus the music don support it
2017-10-20 22:58 MrSergio: [https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9356667 high quality creativity]
2017-10-20 22:58 mindmaster107: I could try returning to that ye
2017-10-20 22:58 mindmaster107: that is what I did ye
2017-10-20 22:58 mindmaster107: this is what it used to look like
2017-10-20 22:58 MrSergio: or
2017-10-20 22:58 mindmaster107: but
2017-10-20 22:58 MrSergio: as last resort: use just circles
2017-10-20 22:58 MrSergio: 4 circles
2017-10-20 22:58 mindmaster107: no definatly not
2017-10-20 22:59 mindmaster107: cus the remaining 3 sounds are very quet
2017-10-20 22:59 mindmaster107: I could use the double slider
2017-10-20 22:59 mindmaster107: that could work slightly
2017-10-20 22:59 mindmaster107: no actually it could work pretty well
2017-10-20 22:59 mindmaster107: cus the 3rd sound is slightly more intense
2017-10-20 23:00 MrSergio: umh... they are as quiet as 01:15:292 (5,6) - tbh
2017-10-20 23:00 MrSergio: you could do a double stack
2017-10-20 23:00 MrSergio: 01:15:292 (5,6) - a double of this
2017-10-20 23:01 MrSergio: well, I'm just exploring alternatives
2017-10-20 23:01 mindmaster107: I will take that alternative
2017-10-20 23:01 MrSergio: to begin with there isn't that much of an alternative there
2017-10-20 23:01 MrSergio: 4 beats can't be expressed in infinite ways regardless
2017-10-20 23:02 MrSergio: 02:32:692 (2,3) - this sounds similar to 02:32:392 (1) - in the song to me tho
2017-10-20 23:02 MrSergio: hitsounding supports that too
2017-10-20 23:02 MrSergio: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9356701
2017-10-20 23:02 MrSergio: basically: whatever has a clap becomes a click for the player, which makes sense
2017-10-20 23:03 mindmaster107: I guess the sound is too subtle
2017-10-20 23:03 mindmaster107: ye
2017-10-20 23:03 MrSergio: and right now you have 02:32:842 - as a click, which uhhh
2017-10-20 23:03 mindmaster107: there is a sound being mapped
2017-10-20 23:03 mindmaster107: but too quet I think

Minorsonek wrote:

m4m

diff

00:00:892 (4) - inconsistent rhythm here, delete this or add circles 00:03:292 - 00:05:692 - etc I don't understand why people are telling me to ignore the song
00:14:992 (2) - part of this circle is offscreen No it isn't open your eyes ingame
00:47:092 (2) - why this sound is circle instead of previously done 00:37:492 (1) - 1/4 slider Notice the different sounds I am trying to represent please.
00:56:692 (2) - ^ ^
01:01:492 (6) - NC
01:06:292 (6) - 01:11:092 (8) - 01:15:892 (7) - too I decided against that to make this section feel more calm. It is readable anyways regardless, you don't need an NC when there is SV change unless it is unpredictable.
02:11:392 (3,4) - copy 02:10:792 (1,2) - here, as you did 02:09:592 (1,2,3,4) - Why should I do that if the song changes?
02:14:392 (1) - This kiai time looks the same as the rest of the map, which is very bad if you wanted the kiai to be the most intense part of the map. It is not by much. The song barely changes intensity, but I think that a kiai is within subjective reasoning to be used here.
Can you explain why 02:42:292 (2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3) - this is exactly copy pasted non-kiai time pattern here 00:46:792 (1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3) - ?
Really no reason for kiai here, make it more intense if you want to keep it Notice a few subtle changes, but your point still makes sense. Even if it makes sense, it falls under subjective reasoning, and once again I will keep the kiai to show that the song just marginally increases in intensity.

Imma stop repeating myself, but you get the idea, the map is soo boring.... Well ye the song is kinda repetitive. If I made it anything more crazy I would be overmapping horrendously.

1. 00:05:842 (4,5,6) - This is a single occurence of this sort of hidden pattern, and it comes out as unexpected (and inconsistent). It'd be best to keep it visible, like the other patterns you had.
2. 00:23:092 (1,1,2,3,4) - I really like this thing. It's awesome.
3. 00:37:492 (1,1,2,3,4,1) - This part has icky flow. The overlap is making the back and forth difficult to read (mostly because of the stacked pattern you had before), and the final jump goes in a different direction but only slightly, which is counterintuitive.
4. 00:40:192 (2,3,4,5) - Don't break your pattern. Keep the double stack you had like 00:32:992 (1,2,3,4) - it will make the map a lot more consistent and will avoid unnecessary surprises. Similarly, don't use the double stack for anything but this pattern, so change 00:40:792 (1,2) - as well. This also goes for 00:49:792 (2,3,4,5,1,2) - and all similar patterns after
5. 00:47:092 (2,3,1,2,3,4,1) - Same comment as earlier regarding the flow - also the stack before this pattern is making it a lot harder to read. Also goes for 00:56:692 (2,3,1,2,3,4,1) - and all similar patterns after
6. 00:51:592 (1,2,1,2,3,4,1) - just a note that, as opposed to 00:37:492 (1,1,2,3,4,1) - this is executed properly - the back and forth is introduced with another back and forth (the sliders), and the final jump goes in a direction different enough not to be surprising. I'd just increase the spacing on 00:52:642 (4,1) - to match the spacing of the back and forth jumps
7. 01:07:192 (1) - to 01:15:592 (6) - this whole section looks bad because of the very short spacing between the slider and stack - keep in mind that, due to stack leniency, the stack is likely to be split a bit and that's going to ruin the visuals. Also, the short spacing makes this confusing to play, so try to keep it a bit more consistent. Note that this applies to any similar patterns, like 01:17:992 (6,7,8) -
8. 01:16:642 (4,1) - this should be a jump to properly finish the back and forth pattern - the cramped spacing here is uncomfortable to play
9. 02:32:992 (1,2,3,4) - This is actually confusing - the player expects a back and forth here again, but you change the pattern rather suddenly, and the fact the circles are hiding behind other objects makes this a lot harder to read than it should be

Shiro wrote:

Eh... I would rather this had been on the new modding system. =(

1. 00:05:842 (4,5,6) - This is a single occurence of this sort of hidden pattern, and it comes out as unexpected (and inconsistent). It'd be best to keep it visible, like the other patterns you had. Got it.
2. 00:23:092 (1,1,2,3,4) - I really like this thing. It's awesome. ^/////^
3. 00:37:492 (1,1,2,3,4,1) - This part has icky flow. The overlap is making the back and forth difficult to read (mostly because of the stacked pattern you had before), and the final jump goes in a different direction but only slightly, which is counterintuitive. I have no clue what you mean. It flows pretty well from me and play testers.
4. 00:40:192 (2,3,4,5) - Don't break your pattern. Keep the double stack you had like 00:32:992 (1,2,3,4) - it will make the map a lot more consistent and will avoid unnecessary surprises. Similarly, don't use the double stack for anything but this pattern, so change 00:40:792 (1,2) - as well. This also goes for 00:49:792 (2,3,4,5,1,2) - and all similar patterns after Got it.
5. 00:47:092 (2,3,1,2,3,4,1) - Same comment as earlier regarding the flow - also the stack before this pattern is making it a lot harder to read. Also goes for 00:56:692 (2,3,1,2,3,4,1) - and all similar patterns after It is being repeated often. Full explanation below.
6. 00:51:592 (1,2,1,2,3,4,1) - just a note that, as opposed to 00:37:492 (1,1,2,3,4,1) - this is executed properly - the back and forth is introduced with another back and forth (the sliders), and the final jump goes in a direction different enough not to be surprising. I'd just increase the spacing on 00:52:642 (4,1) - to match the spacing of the back and forth jumps I understand your intentions, however as the pattern is simple to comprehend, and it is being repeated at least a handful of times. Its strength of being unique against the rest of the map stays, while the pattern and it's variations would be easily readable.
7. 01:07:192 (1) - to 01:15:592 (6) - this whole section looks bad because of the very short spacing between the slider and stack - keep in mind that, due to stack leniency, the stack is likely to be split a bit and that's going to ruin the visuals. Also, the short spacing makes this confusing to play, so try to keep it a bit more consistent. Note that this applies to any similar patterns, like 01:17:992 (6,7,8) - I will touch up on the stacks to make them look a bit better, but I don't understand your second point.
8. 01:16:642 (4,1) - this should be a jump to properly finish the back and forth pattern - the cramped spacing here is uncomfortable to play I think the sudden shift in flow could help reflect the son's shift into the new section.
9. 02:32:992 (1,2,3,4) - This is actually confusing - the player expects a back and forth here again, but you change the pattern rather suddenly, and the fact the circles are hiding behind other objects makes this a lot harder to read than it should be Ill fix it.

Overall, I feel like the spacing on this is kind of arbitrary, or at least I failed to understand the logic behind it. =(

Short mod (I'm used to significantly bigger), but a lot of my points are repeated across the map. >.> Sorry it took so long for me to get to it.