well, they should represent However, a logical sequence or a tier list...
But, actually it's a nono, it should be a guideline, not a rule.
But, actually it's a nono, it should be a guideline, not a rule.
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New Rule: Difficulty names must name the difficulty
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I still believe that as long as there is a logical order/indication of difficulty then it should be fine.
If it requires prior knowledge of something, it should be fine as long as the map's source/theme is similar with that.
On a sidenote, what about difficulty names based on the order of the lyrics of a song?
Edit: Also Larto, having a parenthesis followed by the difficulty description is unaesthetic >.>
If it requires prior knowledge of something, it should be fine as long as the map's source/theme is similar with that.
On a sidenote, what about difficulty names based on the order of the lyrics of a song?
Edit: Also Larto, having a parenthesis followed by the difficulty description is unaesthetic >.>
No. People have the right to be douches.
That won't stop you from suggesting they name their difficulties to more appropriate logical names. Usually if enough people agree there will be a fix.
This is so minor it's not worth discussion.
That won't stop you from suggesting they name their difficulties to more appropriate logical names. Usually if enough people agree there will be a fix.
This is so minor it's not worth discussion.
it really depends on the map. say is the source is beatmania or touhou, then names like hyper, another and lunatic would be acceptable since a lot of people know what they are. however i really don't see the point in (animecharacter's Easy, animecharacter's Normal etc)
The diff names should be easy to understand, maps like this are just silly.
I also agree with the earlier statement about Collab diff's. it should be include the difficulty in there somewhere like Insane(Collab). also i believe each collab section should be properly names so players can tell who's map what part. Most do it anyway, i think there are a couple that don't
The diff names should be easy to understand, maps like this are just silly.
I also agree with the earlier statement about Collab diff's. it should be include the difficulty in there somewhere like Insane(Collab). also i believe each collab section should be properly names so players can tell who's map what part. Most do it anyway, i think there are a couple that don't
I had a very well written post, but the add reply button does not add what you've already written as a reply, it goes to a different page.
Basically, it should either be a guideline or only be applied for maps where the star rating doesn't already rank them properly.
Basically, it should either be a guideline or only be applied for maps where the star rating doesn't already rank them properly.
This rule really isn't necessary...
It's almost always really obvious which diff is the hardest one. If it's not, just playing them both would be enough to figure it out, and looking at the scoreboard could also be another way to tell. The only way it's not obvious is if the hardest diff doesn't have the highest score and doesn't appear at the bottom of the list, which isn't frequent at all and doesn't need a rule that would apply to all cases.
It's almost always really obvious which diff is the hardest one. If it's not, just playing them both would be enough to figure it out, and looking at the scoreboard could also be another way to tell. The only way it's not obvious is if the hardest diff doesn't have the highest score and doesn't appear at the bottom of the list, which isn't frequent at all and doesn't need a rule that would apply to all cases.
This.ziin wrote:
No. People have the right to be douches.
That won't stop you from suggesting they name their difficulties to more appropriate logical names. Usually if enough people agree there will be a fix.
This is so minor it's not worth discussion.
That box is for quick reply, button on the right.Drakari wrote:
I had a very well written post, but the add reply button does not add what you've already written as a reply, it goes to a different page.
The idea of custom difficulty names was to follow other difficulty convention names, like [Advanced], [Expert] or [Maniac]. Most of the time it isn't a problem, though there are some maps who use stupid difficulty names that don't resemble any difficulty naming convention... for example, calling the difficulties [Maria], [Joel] and [Daniela] is stupid and confusing because I have no way to know what difficulty is which.
It shouldn't be an obscure difficulty name either, so everyone understands what difficulty it is; for example, let's say a beatmap is of X anime and the strongest character is Y, so the mapper names it [Y]. Those who don't know the anime are left out, wondering what the name means, which is a bit unfair.
Anyone agree?
There was nothing of this written anywhere, so I thought of adding it to the guidelines so there's less confusion.
It shouldn't be an obscure difficulty name either, so everyone understands what difficulty it is; for example, let's say a beatmap is of X anime and the strongest character is Y, so the mapper names it [Y]. Those who don't know the anime are left out, wondering what the name means, which is a bit unfair.
Anyone agree?
There was nothing of this written anywhere, so I thought of adding it to the guidelines so there's less confusion.
For my maps, if I do decide to have a custom name I always add what diff it is.
Ex: all my Toradora maps are like [Ami Insane], [Taiga Hard] etc.
Maybe if the name is ambiguous then what type of diff should be added. So [X Insane]
Ex: all my Toradora maps are like [Ami Insane], [Taiga Hard] etc.
Maybe if the name is ambiguous then what type of diff should be added. So [X Insane]
Kinda agree.
I usually give my Insane Guest or Collab diffs some wordplay name like:
-Haku No Okami -> http://osu.ppy.sh/s/28257
-Hakkun;Gate -> http://osu.ppy.sh/s/30876
Or using Personas names ordered by level here -> http://osu.ppy.sh/s/28856
By the way, you don't need a guideline to make that, as modders will take the work of making the mapper changing it if it has no sense ( e.g Maria, Joel and Daniela in a song where they don't even appear in the lyrics... )
I usually give my Insane Guest or Collab diffs some wordplay name like:
-Haku No Okami -> http://osu.ppy.sh/s/28257
-Hakkun;Gate -> http://osu.ppy.sh/s/30876
Or using Personas names ordered by level here -> http://osu.ppy.sh/s/28856
By the way, you don't need a guideline to make that, as modders will take the work of making the mapper changing it if it has no sense ( e.g Maria, Joel and Daniela in a song where they don't even appear in the lyrics... )
Is not confusing, it's obvious which is which. No matter the name.
more than the name itself, he's talking about using names that doesn't center much in the song/anime/contest of the map
If the star ratings are accurate, gimmick difficulty names should be okay. If not, you really shouldn't.
This doesn't delete the fact that is not worth a guideline and obviousl not a rule either!
Uh...HakuNoKaemi wrote:
more than the name itself, he's talking about using names that doesn't center much in the song/anime/contest of the map
Actually, I'm sorry to say, but that's exactly what I meant - as a person who has never played Persona, I have no idea what the difficulty names mean. If you tell me "play [Asura]", it could mean Normal or Insane to me. Absolutely non-related names are already picked up in the modding process, as you said.HakuNoKaemi wrote:
Or using Personas names ordered by level here -> http://osu.ppy.sh/s/28856
Names like [Regular Titan], [Super Titan] and [Ultra Titan] are perfectly fine to me, since they indicate some sort of size growing up, so I can safely assume [Ultra Titan] is going to be the hardest. Character names don't make any sense though, unless you know the source.
Difficulty names should always resemble the difficulty, so there's no ambiguity or confusion. Star rating usually indicates the difficulty, yes (if it didn't, custom names like that wouldn't have survived at all), but it's still not accurate... and besides, the difficulty name, as its name implies, should name the difficulty properly!
...I see this has all been discussed though, so maybe I'm just repeating everything here.
You can know the hardest by knowing some latin (Telos means Endless).
By knowing some mythology, you can know almost all difficulties:
Orpheus, you know his story ( he descended in hell to recover his lover Eurydice )
Orthrus, the mythical child of Nyx, brother to Cerberus, Sphinx and Chimera, that was slain by Hercules ( so, after a "normal" human, there is a mythical beast)
Thanatos, the God of the Peacefull Death and Eternal Sleep (another child of Nyx) (pretty logical)
Asura is taken from hinduist, buddhist, vedic and zoroastrianic. Referring to Vedic, King of asuras, and Zoroastrian, mispelling of Ahura Mazda, much like YHVH for Cristians. (Remember Soul Eater Asura too)
Orpheus Telos - as Telos means Endless, and Orpheus received a gold lyre from Apollo
Another way:
The Star Rating order: I made it all to preserve the order of the difficulties.
This doesn't deserve a rule. Neither a Guideline maybe.
By knowing some mythology, you can know almost all difficulties:
Orpheus, you know his story ( he descended in hell to recover his lover Eurydice )
Orthrus, the mythical child of Nyx, brother to Cerberus, Sphinx and Chimera, that was slain by Hercules ( so, after a "normal" human, there is a mythical beast)
Thanatos, the God of the Peacefull Death and Eternal Sleep (another child of Nyx) (pretty logical)
Asura is taken from hinduist, buddhist, vedic and zoroastrianic. Referring to Vedic, King of asuras, and Zoroastrian, mispelling of Ahura Mazda, much like YHVH for Cristians. (Remember Soul Eater Asura too)
Orpheus Telos - as Telos means Endless, and Orpheus received a gold lyre from Apollo
Another way:
The Star Rating order: I made it all to preserve the order of the difficulties.
This doesn't deserve a rule. Neither a Guideline maybe.
Seconding this. Character names or whatever as difficulty names look really dumb to me but if they're in order by difficulty then it's nothing to really care about.mm201 wrote:
If the star ratings are accurate, gimmick difficulty names should be okay. If not, you really shouldn't.
HakuNoKaemi: If your difficulty names require an explanation that long then that means they are terrible as difficulty names (and I say this as somebody who has played Persona). I don't think there should be a rule against you doing that but come on now...
the Orpheus-Thanatos-Orpheus Telos line is comprensible by anyone who followed the Persona storyline and really completed the game, Orthrus and Asura are just in between them.
That one explanation is better?
or even
"Just watch the Personae Compendiae"
That one explanation is better?
or even
"Just watch the Personae Compendiae"
I've got an idea: Let mappers order the difficulties in their beatmap manually if the star sorting doesn't do it right. Then it doesn't matter what the difficulty names are at all.
maybe will be doable in osz2, but if a map it's more a group of difficulty with same Artist, Song and Mapper... I see it difficult (talking on organization-side)
I'd much rather a diff named after the mapper if it's a guest mapper than have it named by difficulty. Also maps often have 2 difficulties of similar difficulty but a different style (streams vs jumps) and you can always just look at stars or high scores to determine difficulty levels if in doubt. Or you can actually just play the map, the difficulty of a diff named "insane" already varies wildly.
If anything should be done, it should be this.Drakari wrote:
I've got an idea: Let mappers order the difficulties in their beatmap manually if the star sorting doesn't do it right. Then it doesn't matter what the difficulty names are at all.
like not me.HakuNoKaemi wrote:
comprehensible by anyone who followed the Persona storyline
The problem is this: what difficulty corresponds to beginner, easy, normal, hard, insane, expert? You should be able to point out from each individual difficulty the osu! analogous difficulty (this is actually quite useful in multi-player where you do not have the benefit of seeing more than one difficulty or even the star rating).
If I were to make a BG2 mapset, and were to name my difficulties after the bosses, what would be the osu! difficulty of [Yaga-Shura]? It's impossible, even for people who know the game for a thousand different reasons.
IMO weezy's way is perfect and anyone who thinks otherwise is just whining about some stupid minor detail that doesn't affect the gameplay in the slightest and makes the beatmap confusing to more people.
i agree with ziin and gens.
its even more annoying when its just the mapper's name and nothing else. the difficulty names should make sense to ALL players who play the map. not just the ones have have played/watched the source. if you really MUST add some random difficulty name in, then just do what weezy does, its maybe 5 seconds work tops
its even more annoying when its just the mapper's name and nothing else. the difficulty names should make sense to ALL players who play the map. not just the ones have have played/watched the source. if you really MUST add some random difficulty name in, then just do what weezy does, its maybe 5 seconds work tops
I read through this thread... And here's what I propose:
There should be a way to tell easily which difficulty is what. For custom names, some knowledge about the source of the song might be required, but the naming should be objective.This allows things like my DKC maps, naming like "o1o o2o o3o" and other ideas like this (still allow NatsumeRin's highest difficulties names), but would get rid of names completely unrelated to anything (character names, for instance).
It'd also be nice to have Taiko maps clearly indicated.
Sometimes it's a bit awkward.
Sometimes it's a bit awkward.
Included in the above wording.
This map would be in the category "Screw the people that don't really know K-ON!" since the Ritsu diff is Taiko. The only hint about this being a taiko would be the amount of circles... But noone pay attention about those stats >.>Mr Color wrote:
It'd also be nice to have Taiko maps clearly indicated.
Sometimes it's a bit awkward.
I don't have any other map in mind but this kind of maps would confuse every other player (Main Standard/CTB) but Taiko players.
Agree with Odaril
What's wrong with weezy's naming scheme anyway? Why don't you people put the actual difficulty in the name?
That's not against Odaril version of the guideline as it clearly says the difficulty ( PG's Easy/Normal/Hard/Insane and so )
As HakuNoKaemi said, my version completely allows that.ziin wrote:
What's wrong with weezy's naming scheme anyway?
It doesn't always sound as good as Weezy's. "Barrel Bayou Easy" "Knockhead Klamber Normal" "Mudhole Marsh Hard" sounds terrible.ziin wrote:
Why don't you people put the actual difficulty in the name?
(though what I could have done is "lvl 1: Barrel Bayou" "lvl 2: Knockhead Klamber" "lvl 3: Mudhole Marsh")
My major problem is that in multiplayer you are not given any context other than the difficulty name as to how hard the map is. This makes finding a multiplayer room harder for me. Anything that impedes my gameplay is an annoyance and should be fixed if possible.Odaril wrote:
It doesn't always sound as good as Weezy's. "Barrel Bayou Easy" "Knockhead Klamber Normal" "Mudhole Marsh Hard" sounds terrible.
Beginner's Barrel Bayou
Medium Mudhole Marsh
Krazy Knockhead Klamber
Rin-sane
I just don't like your version because it can still rely on context or knowledge about the source. I also know I am being over-particular. I don't agree with your rule because I want an all or nothing solution.
I laughed at Rin-sane
I still think this is a Guideline more than a rule.
Anyway, in my cause the thing I can do is adding Persona level and Arcanae to the name, (01. Fool Orpheus or Fool Orpheus - Lv.01)
I still think this is a Guideline more than a rule.
Anyway, in my cause the thing I can do is adding Persona level and Arcanae to the name, (01. Fool Orpheus or Fool Orpheus - Lv.01)
Keeping it as a guideline sounds fine, but modders (everyone) need to stop mappers from using diff names that don't make sense.
For what it's worth, I've played all 3 Donkey Kong Country games and could never remember the order, or even the names, of the different levels.
numbering based on a scale of 5 on what you truly think the star rating is would not be a bad idea if you opt out of some other universally recognizable naming scheme.
You cannot remember something now and remember when you see it. Otherwise is just like you don't had played it...mm201 wrote:
For what it's worth, I've played all 3 Donkey Kong Country games and could never remember the order, or even the names, of the different levels.
The naming scheme is anyway only somewhat indicative, and if the difficulty are in the right order, you can "know" what difficulty is easier and harder.
So there's no need in enforcing it as a rule or making it a "Hard" guideline that somewhat restrict liberty...
Huh, since when you haven't played something when you cant remember the level names or their order, i rarely even pay attention to level names on this game, but going this way is offtopic anyways.
As Gens has stated custom difficulty names was made so that we could use different difficulty naming convetions like DDR's and Touhou's (only difference in Touhou is Insane = Lunatic), there's no need to go out of the way and using names that no one can tell what difficulty it is without prior knowledge of the source (or not tell what it is at all).
As Gens has stated custom difficulty names was made so that we could use different difficulty naming convetions like DDR's and Touhou's (only difference in Touhou is Insane = Lunatic), there's no need to go out of the way and using names that no one can tell what difficulty it is without prior knowledge of the source (or not tell what it is at all).
Making examples inherent the rules or the guidelines is in topic anyway.
In if you're making a rule that prevent custon names from being linked to the source and having sense, you can't enforce it as a Rule like what Gens or Larto said.
In if you're making a rule that prevent custon names from being linked to the source and having sense, you can't enforce it as a Rule like what Gens or Larto said.
This.Odaril wrote:
Keeping it as a guideline sounds fine, but modders (everyone) need to stop mappers from using diff names that don't make sense.
however. would this also apply to approved maps when there are normally only insane rated maps?