Spaced streams and unnaturally high SV sliders are about the only thing that get easier at higher AR. Lower AR gives you more time to read/understand/aim large jumps if you can stifle your desire to whack moles.
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How Much Does Raising The AR Lower the Difficulty (opinons?)
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Topic Starter
Yolshka wrote:
I'm not sure how all you people seem to be able to read high decimals or even 10, because to me you look like a nomod player but whatever.
I will say though that changing the ar even a little bit will definitely have significant impact on your performance, for better or worse.
I am indeed a nomod player, I can sort of read AR 10, but tack on CS 5 and OD 10 and then I get shit on, so HR is out of the question. If I get pissed off at a high bpm map, check and see it's AR 9, I think "Why can't this be 9.2, then I could play it comfortably."
I think it's because as a newer player, most maps I got used to were AR9, instead of AR8 which used to be the standard AR for most maps before my time. So I'm just used to higher AR from an early stage in my osu playtime, meaning the level at which I find comfortably fast is higher. That's just my guess.
Topic Starter
I think that's why when I see a 5* TV size map I don't think "easy pp" I say fuck this and delete it because I have trouble dealing with AR9 and the way those maps are ALWAYS structured. I prefer to find maps with little jumps, and more streams.chainpullz wrote:
Spaced streams and unnaturally high SV sliders are about the only thing that get easier at higher AR. Lower AR gives you more time to read/understand/aim large jumps if you can stifle your desire to whack moles.
I'm not too good at them, but Igorrr and Goreshit maps are ones I can see myself FCing if I have my streaming consistency down. I don't have to rely on my subpar aiming skills with AR9, because I fully accept the fact that I rush ahead on jumps and am just no good at them.
I took a small video clip the other day of what I like to call the "buildup" jumps that fuck me over 90% of the time I play a map. This is a great example captured on film. Map is https://osu.ppy.sh/s/335665 [Extra]
Yes that's my failsound.
I mean it doesn't help that mappers like to use 1/2 cross screen emphasis when the only emphasis in the song is 1/1 snares half the time. I'm pretty sure the majority of the maps ranked these days are either speed mapped or mapped by mappers who don't have the experience to speed map (so a slow clumsy imitation of speed mapping basically). I'm not saying speed mapping cant be good mapping, just that it's a lot easier to slap geometric/back-and-forth patterns in places where one can make even the slightest argument that they are justified.
https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9024230 https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9024274
With higher AR i have better acc but also more misses and missreading.
With higher AR i have better acc but also more misses and missreading.
ar 10: http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170906/obbpc8vi.jpg
ar 9.5: http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170906/opvo9l4v.jpg
ar 9: http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170906/kttjc9u9.jpg
ar 8.5: http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170906/nrauqvy6.jpg
yeah, acc slightly spiked at 9.5 for me too i guess. but all in all it was pretty close and ar9 felt the most comfortable, same experience as manualosuplayer. also tried it with ar7 but while i hit every note i failed because my accuracy was too low lol (<50% after 30 secs i think).
ar 9.5: http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170906/opvo9l4v.jpg
ar 9: http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170906/kttjc9u9.jpg
ar 8.5: http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170906/nrauqvy6.jpg
yeah, acc slightly spiked at 9.5 for me too i guess. but all in all it was pretty close and ar9 felt the most comfortable, same experience as manualosuplayer. also tried it with ar7 but while i hit every note i failed because my accuracy was too low lol (<50% after 30 secs i think).
Depends on the map. If a mapper has created a map intended to be comfortably played at the AR given to it, then it's usually fine in my experience.
I haven't had a chance to sit down and play the map you linked, but I'm reminded of all of those old graveyard maps made before decimal AR was allowed and you only had the choice of AR9 or 10. Most of those maps are usually playable on whatever the player feels most comfortable with, but there are sometimes maps I felt the mapper would have given an AR between 9 and 10 to aid playability given the chance.
Generally speaking, though, higher BPM coupled with lower AR can be difficult to aim. Extreme examples include Freedom Dive and Kokou no Sousei. Even Heterochromia Iridis [Another] has a nomod chart of almost entirely really good players that are way past the level of this map. It seems to be pretty difficult in general so it's nothing to beat yourself up over if you're having trouble.
I haven't had a chance to sit down and play the map you linked, but I'm reminded of all of those old graveyard maps made before decimal AR was allowed and you only had the choice of AR9 or 10. Most of those maps are usually playable on whatever the player feels most comfortable with, but there are sometimes maps I felt the mapper would have given an AR between 9 and 10 to aid playability given the chance.
Generally speaking, though, higher BPM coupled with lower AR can be difficult to aim. Extreme examples include Freedom Dive and Kokou no Sousei. Even Heterochromia Iridis [Another] has a nomod chart of almost entirely really good players that are way past the level of this map. It seems to be pretty difficult in general so it's nothing to beat yourself up over if you're having trouble.
lol I know your feels. It takes a massive stroke of luck for me to FC most 5 star range TV size maps. I prefer maps that get their difficulty from things besides fullscreen jumps and I'd even rather play long maps that are difficult but don't have jump spikes.Manfred wrote:
I think that's why when I see a 5* TV size map I don't think "easy pp" I say fuck this and delete it because I have trouble dealing with AR9 and the way those maps are ALWAYS structured. I prefer to find maps with little jumps, and more streams.
I also have a similar experience with jump spikes that build up to the chorus or some other intense part of the song. This map particularly I just can't deal with the fullscreen part at the end.Manfred wrote:
I took a small video clip the other day of what I like to call the "buildup" jumps that fuck me over 90% of the time I play a map. This is a great example captured on film. Map is https://osu.ppy.sh/s/335665 [Extra]
if you guys are are up to the challenge i found this little fella a while back.
https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=118380&m=0
i can't pass it for sure but you can try
Manfred perhaps you could try doing a little test on this, maybe raising the ar on it too and see how it is compared to untouched ?
It's not as massive as freedom dive, chipscape or gay pony but not as popular either.
But as far as aiming goes i think it's even worse, i can't read it at all, misses everywhere.
https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=118380&m=0
i can't pass it for sure but you can try
Manfred perhaps you could try doing a little test on this, maybe raising the ar on it too and see how it is compared to untouched ?
It's not as massive as freedom dive, chipscape or gay pony but not as popular either.
But as far as aiming goes i think it's even worse, i can't read it at all, misses everywhere.
It depends on the player. Personally raising the AR above 9 makes it harder for me.
For me high bpm with AR 9 and less is very hard to read. But I'm just loser who doesn't focus very much on reading, so.. It may not be that hard, it's just me who's bad.
AR should match BPM to make map easier. Higher BPM -> Higher AR.
The spike between AR8 to AR9 it's really big at that map. And from 9 to 9'5 feels like the OD it's bigger, could be cause i'm used to play high OD when i play high AR.mulraf wrote:
ar 10: http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170906/obbpc8vi.jpg
ar 9.5: http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170906/opvo9l4v.jpg
ar 9: http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170906/kttjc9u9.jpg
ar 8.5: http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170906/nrauqvy6.jpg
yeah, acc slightly spiked at 9.5 for me too i guess. but all in all it was pretty close and ar9 felt the most comfortable, same experience as manualosuplayer. also tried it with ar7 but while i hit every note i failed because my accuracy was too low lol (<50% after 30 secs i think).
Raising the AR raises the difficulty.
High spaced jumps get easier too. When the AR is too low and there are a lot of jumps you end up having to use your memory a bit rather than just flat out aimingchainpullz wrote:
Spaced streams and unnaturally high SV sliders are about the only thing that get easier at higher AR. Lower AR gives you more time to read/understand/aim large jumps if you can stifle your desire to whack moles.
AR 0 is super easy rightjohnmedina999 wrote:
Raising the AR raises the difficulty.
Topic Starter
I''ll give it a try soon, in all honesty the best way I can play maps like this at all is with caffeine running through me, otherwise my fingers don't wanna.Yolshka wrote:
Manfred perhaps you could try doing a little test on this, maybe raising the ar on it too and see how it is compared to untouched ?
It's not as massive as freedom dive, chipscape or gay pony but not as popular either.
But as far as aiming goes i think it's even worse, i can't read it at all, misses everywhere.
When I'm all jumped up I like to try and test my utmost speed with https://osu.ppy.sh/s/46502 [Lolicore] edited to 9.7 AR and see how well I can acc. Map is honestly awkward as hell but the bursts are good practice.
Topic Starter
If you're Mafham or GN maybe.Kisses wrote:
AR 0 is super easy right
Topic Starter
chainpullz wrote:
I mean it doesn't help that mappers like to use 1/2 cross screen emphasis when the only emphasis in the song is 1/1 snares half the time. I'm pretty sure the majority of the maps ranked these days are either speed mapped or mapped by mappers who don't have the experience to speed map (so a slow clumsy imitation of speed mapping basically). I'm not saying speed mapping cant be good mapping, just that it's a lot easier to slap geometric/back-and-forth patterns in places where one can make even the slightest argument that they are justified.
This. I FUCKING REFUSE to even download cookiebutterbullshit for your stated reasons, and various others that are for another thread at another time. So these high AR stream maps are where I can feel at home.
It is generally in bad taste to post three times in a row when you could post once.
Also get out of here with your posing. SS this and get back to me
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/157754
Also get out of here with your posing. SS this and get back to me
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/157754
Topic Starter
I gave that map a try with AR 9.5 and OD 9 but wasn't warmed up so I predictably failed. But I turned the OD down to 8 and gotYolshka wrote:
Manfred perhaps you could try doing a little test on this, maybe raising the ar on it too and see how it is compared to untouched ?
It's not as massive as freedom dive, chipscape or gay pony but not as popular either.
But as far as aiming goes i think it's even worse, i can't read it at all, misses everywhere.
I didn't feel that was right because the difference between OD 8 and 9 is honestly like night and day when it comes to accuracy. So I turned it back up to OD9 and also turned up the AR to 9.8 and got https://youtu.be/mY8_U4_VkJE?t=239
Sorry about the extreme overposting, I'm shit at forum posting and that's just how I've always replied. I'll try and keep it down low like this post and just quote multiple people in 1, not sure why that's never occurred to me before.Philosofikal wrote:
It is generally in bad taste to post three times in a row when you could post once.
Also get out of here with your posing. SS this and get back to me
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/157754
As for me posing, I don't know what I'm posing about. I don't think more scores are good at all but I'm sharing them because it pertains to the thread discussion.
Also I gave that map a try, those types of streams are what I sadly can't ACC well on. I'd love to, trust me but they're the type of stream that really requires a great sense of rhythm and not just bursting. That map and song remind me of goreshit or Igorrr maps by grumd or fergas and while I love those maps, I can't do well on them yet.
dam 9.8
i don't think think i can pass that on any ar
but tbh i don't really like that map either, but it's hard so... there's that?
those 2 bursts at 1:30 seem real tough,at least i find it to be on 9.0 but out of all things you kind of hit that one so maybe thats just me
Not compared to Heterochromia at least, but heterochromia is a bitch to read anyway so i wouldn't get too worked up about it if it poses a threat on 9.0
i don't think think i can pass that on any ar
but tbh i don't really like that map either, but it's hard so... there's that?
those 2 bursts at 1:30 seem real tough,at least i find it to be on 9.0 but out of all things you kind of hit that one so maybe thats just me
Well to be fair, orange file isnt even remotely hard to read, but it's pretty intense cuz it's short.Manfred wrote:
Also I gave that map a try, those types of streams are what I sadly can't ACC well on. I'd love to, trust me but they're the type of stream that really requires a great sense of rhythm and not just bursting. That map and song remind me of goreshit or Igorrr maps by grumd or fergas and while I love those maps, I can't do well on them yet.
Not compared to Heterochromia at least, but heterochromia is a bitch to read anyway so i wouldn't get too worked up about it if it poses a threat on 9.0
Topic Starter
I don't have much trouble reading Heterochromia (as long as it's not AR9) much because it just makes more sense to me, and I love the song and have heard it a 1000 times because I have it on my ipod, I know whats coming up before it does so I can mentally prepare myself.Yolshka wrote:
but tbh i don't really like that map either, but it's hard so... there's that?
I honestly hated that map, I like intense music that screams at you, but that was just utter nonsense to listen to, and the shift between 130bpm and 230 was completely unsettling. But that map is almost 6 years old, so much has changed in that time that I can't blame it, but I also can say I don't enjoy it.
Not compared to Heterochromia at least, but heterochromia is a bitch to read anyway so i wouldn't get too worked up about it if it poses a threat on 9.0
I tried it again with AR 9 and the results are almost laughable, I've broken myself playing high AR high BPM maps, I repeatedly failed and had sub 85% acc at all times, compared to my runs with 9.5 it's such a crazy difference.
I feel like a broken retarded machine gun being able to play these but still can't FC 4.3* maps with any sort of consistency. I still feel less stressed and less pissed off when I play because I don't take these so seriously as trying to get 99% FCs on stuff for pp.
Lately I've been trying to get as far into https://osu.ppy.sh/s/149471 before I fail because that gets crazy hard around the midway point. It's fun because I can distinctly remember back a few months when I couldn't even keep up with tapping with autopilot or aiming with relax, and now I can play it. I like seeing that improvement in myself, even if my rank doesn't reflect it.
Everything above ar9.4/9.5 is impossible for me so this doesn't work for shit in my case.
AR should match BPM to make map easier. Higher BPM -> Higher AR.Wrong, AR should match note density.
Topic Starter
[Taiga] wrote:
Everything above ar9.4/9.5 is impossible for me so this doesn't work for shit in my case.AR should match BPM to make map easier. Higher BPM -> Higher AR.Wrong, AR should match note density.
This is why maps like Ghost rule are really tough for me, my brain is sometimes 2 steps ahead of my fingers so I'm trying to aim for a jump that hasn't happened yet or a slider that's not even come up yet. But when the BPM is slower, around 160 I can force myself to slow down and take in the music and rhythm better.
After a certain BPM I start to lose that a bit, and it sometimes just sounds no different than a jumble of noise when trying to match rhythm to map structure. That's for me atleast, and it all just takes more practice with density and lower AR.
I hope that my ability to ready AR 9.5+ will let me eventually become a player who frequently uses HR.
I hope.
One of top200 players with who I speak told me one thing about reading (with which I completely agree):
"You are reading properly if you can tell each circle number, amount of circles in combo and ignore everything around at same time".
Tbh, with this, people overuse "reading" as "I can see circles and click them" but seriously - proper reading is not only "I can see and react on circles" but more about I can read patterns like they never exist, focus on single circles and follow it.
Was practicing this for a long time now and I can clearly say, reading tech maps and aiming streams is a whole new level (I mean way easier than "just reading").
"You are reading properly if you can tell each circle number, amount of circles in combo and ignore everything around at same time".
Tbh, with this, people overuse "reading" as "I can see circles and click them" but seriously - proper reading is not only "I can see and react on circles" but more about I can read patterns like they never exist, focus on single circles and follow it.
Was practicing this for a long time now and I can clearly say, reading tech maps and aiming streams is a whole new level (I mean way easier than "just reading").
Play more HR Ar 10 and never be able to read ar 9 again
why do ar 10 when you can do ar 10.3
why do ar 10 when you can do ar 10.3