forum

OISHII - UP UP MT. CAKE [Taiko]

posted
Total Posts
47
show more
Lumenite-
some spread problems, all from oni -> inner oni

every time there's a stream plotted in the inner there's no such difficulty buildup from the oni, where in all the difficulties have d k d k d 1/1, the inner oni has a full measure stream. while the spread from an oni and higher isn't too big a deal, i don't think it's a good idea to have such different density gaps from one oni to another. this occurs at 00:23:432 - and 01:04:945 - . a similar difficulty gap is present at 00:37:703 - where there's 1 basic 1/4 triplet, while the inner has a 7 plet and 9 plet 1/4 pattern with a 1/2 break in between them.

on top of that i think some of the plots in the inner oni are not consistent as they follow the highest pitched chip melody but then proceed to ignore what it does very abruptly, i.e. 00:30:000 - and then plot it when it comes back around at 00:43:054 (311) - . (and i don't like how you skipped over the melody in the intro as well, there isn't much of any reason to ignore it)

also why is 00:01:379 - in the futsuu filled but there's absolutely nothing in the kantan here, and again at 00:06:568 - ?

call me or gabe back to rebubble when considered/fixed

p.s. i just read that the "defining factor" is how the streams set the inner apart from the regular oni, which isn't a solid ideal to map with. difficulty increase is best measured by increases in note density as well as pattern complexity, and if the only factor that sets the two difficulties apart is the streams, there shouldn't be an inner oni imo.
Poii

Backfire wrote:

pop bubble this map sucks
Topic Starter
Nifty

Taikocracy wrote:

some spread problems, all from oni -> inner oni

every time there's a stream plotted in the inner there's no such difficulty buildup from the oni, where in all the difficulties have d k d k d 1/1, the inner oni has a full measure stream. while the spread from an oni and higher isn't too big a deal, i don't think it's a good idea to have such different density gaps from one oni to another. this occurs at 00:23:432 - and 01:04:945 - . a similar difficulty gap is present at 00:37:703 - where there's 1 basic 1/4 triplet, while the inner has a 7 plet and 9 plet 1/4 pattern with a 1/2 break in between them.

on top of that i think some of the plots in the inner oni are not consistent as they follow the highest pitched chip melody but then proceed to ignore what it does very abruptly, i.e. 00:30:000 - and then plot it when it comes back around at 00:43:054 (311) - . (and i don't like how you skipped over the melody in the intro as well, there isn't much of any reason to ignore it)

also why is 00:01:379 - in the futsuu filled but there's absolutely nothing in the kantan here, and again at 00:06:568 - ?

call me or gabe back to rebubble when considered/fixed

p.s. i just read that the "defining factor" is how the streams set the inner apart from the regular oni, which isn't a solid ideal to map with. difficulty increase is best measured by increases in note density as well as pattern complexity, and if the only factor that sets the two difficulties apart is the streams, there shouldn't be an inner oni imo.
filled in the oni (on all charges), but I don't see what you're trying to point out in the inner, both of those sections are fine, and I skipped over the melody in the introduction because it's calm, so the density should be lower than when the bass and other parts come in.

fixed up the futsuu.
Lumenite-
okay we gucci now
Okoratu
lolz the last time i popped a taiko bubble the mapper literally quit the game
bold stuff = reason for blocking

[inner oni]
there's a bunch of instances throughout the map where you just switch layers from what you were following primarily. Most of your patterns are really strictly mapped towards the main melody layer of this song, but then you either randomly just switch to something completely different or just dont map anything.

This becomes kind of obvious in the following places:
00:00:325 - 00:00:811 - etc where you throw in a simplified rhythm just to then accurately follow the melody in the next measure - playing this feels like listening to the music selectively, "oh the densest patterns are in the least dense part" - i think either going and simplifying everything

00:09:162 (55,56,57,58,59) - up until here you've been following the main melody, now the main melody turned out to be doing something more complicated so you switch to the layer that no one paid any attention to

00:15:000 (95,96,97,98,99,100,101,102,103) - 00:19:541 (133,134,135,136,137,138) - same thing as before, you're throwing people off balance by suddenly switching away from the most obvious thing you've been following all day

00:23:432 (167,168,169,170,171,172,173,174,175,176,177,178,179,180,181,182,183) - I mean yeah, that stuff is there but it also is the least obvious thing you could have followed, a stream like that would fit better on 00:38:270 - where it is the main thing going on instead of this place where the very existence of these sounds is like the most minute background thing that exists

Basically the biggest issue i see with this map is that the pacing of the map doesn't match the pacing of the song and breaks the system of what you've been following a lot

I think this thing could be better if you followed what you have been following more consequently. That'll end up making stuff not only more straightforward to play but also less awkward. Because as it stands right now i kind of had to memorize the system you slapped on this song instead of listening to the music in order to play this map and i dont think that's what this should be about
Chromoxx
big agree
Topic Starter
Nifty
oof ouch owie

my achey breaky map
Topic Starter
Nifty

Okorin wrote:

lolz the last time i popped a taiko bubble the mapper literally quit the game
bold stuff = reason for blocking my response

[inner oni]
there's a bunch of instances throughout the map where you just switch layers from what you were following primarily. Most of your patterns are really strictly mapped towards the main melody layer of this song, but then you either randomly just switch to something completely different or just dont map anything.

This becomes kind of obvious in the following places:
00:00:325 - 00:00:811 - etc where you throw in a simplified rhythm just to then accurately follow the melody in the next measure - playing this feels like listening to the music selectively, "oh the densest patterns are in the least dense part" - i think either going and simplifying everything | So you think I should map every sound here 1:1 as it's mapped in the kiai even though it's like, 1/4th of the intensity? Alright, changed, unless you change your mind.

00:09:162 (55,56,57,58,59) - up until here you've been following the main melody, now the main melody turned out to be doing something more complicated so you switch to the layer that no one paid any attention to | This is not mappable, it's an unquantized trill that follows a loose 1/6th on the first measure, but the 7th note of the pattern falls about 10ms past the white tick, and since it slows down, there's only 4 notes left in the trill. Please, tell me how to fit 11 notes inside of 2 bars. Otherwise, I changed these areas to sliders.

00:15:000 (95,96,97,98,99,100,101,102,103) - 00:19:541 (133,134,135,136,137,138) - same thing as before, you're throwing people off balance by suddenly switching away from the most obvious thing you've been following all day | I understand this, simplified

00:23:432 (167,168,169,170,171,172,173,174,175,176,177,178,179,180,181,182,183) - I mean yeah, that stuff is there but it also is the least obvious thing you could have followed, a stream like that would fit better on 00:38:270 - where it is the main thing going on instead of this place where the very existence of these sounds is like the most minute background thing that exists | Ok, so what do I put there, just some random 2/1 breaks in the middle of the kiai? As I see it, I'm following both of these noises in the kiai since the main melody gets so simple like there. You can see that I'm following this side bloop when I map 00:56:027 - this. As far as I'm concerned, if the player does not expect a long stream when that noise gets more complicated, it's their own fault for not realizing that it's being mapped. Also, the main melody of higher pitched bloops pretty obviously steps back to allow that pattern to be heard, giving it even more reason to be mapped. What I'm saying is, the layer switching is a consequence of the melody being passed between these two sounds.

Basically the biggest issue i see with this map is that the pacing of the map doesn't match the pacing of the song and breaks the system of what you've been following a lot

I think this thing could be better if you followed what you have been following more consequently. That'll end up making stuff not only more straightforward to play but also less awkward. Because as it stands right now i kind of had to memorize the system you slapped on this song instead of listening to the music in order to play this map and i dont think that's what this should be about
Okoratu
oh for the beginning i was more talking among the lines of "i think it's better to simplify everything than to selectively map and not map the song"

which would be something like or something among those lines - simplified 1/4 and mostly very simplistic patterns (thing in screen is 00:00:082 - )

that way you have contrast between different sections of music while still representing what song song does the same way

sliders work, and i think just simplifying snapping to something playable would have been fine too

as for the other thing, even just breaking that pattern up in the middle like

(i just threw something on there, not an exact suggestion)

would probably be easier to comprehend as then you'd have something start and end on every of the big melody hits while separating the big melody hits as a whole - i think that'd be more intuitive than just mapping the entire background layer of this because it adds a bunch more focus to what you're doing

if you're worrying about this becoming more monotonous, there's a bunch of places where you could have changed up stuff through using finishers, such as 00:46:783 - 00:47:270 - 00:47:756 -

or other measures, where the idea you were following is only slightly different from what you were doing previously (00:07:865 - is an ok example of this because you can kind of see it coming in the song, yet the way this is connected doesn't really give you the feeling that "hey this is something new and it stands out, because in the map it isn't)

thigns like monopattering or simply a few more finishers could even just spice things up for patterns like 00:40:297 (288,289,290,291) - , sv changes could also be utilised, i left out a bunch of things that you could do in order to not overwrite whatever ideas i would have with what ideas you could come up with whatever alternative i propose

I think people end up happier with their maps if they don't just use other people's ideas but the general line of thought they had to change the issues people had in their way, it has a more satisfying "hey, i did this" taste to it. If that threw you off, i can go into more specifics no problem i just thought it'd be more polite not to

does this answer your concerns? I think the changes you implemented so far are definitely a step forward, you could try varying some of the "very identical" patterns with other patterns that are at the same level of complexity - if you want to spice things up a bit more or think the map is a bit "too regular" now.
strickluke
oof ouch my b̨̎҉̦̠̼̳̥͎̦õ̵̴̯̥̜̺ͦ̂ͧͥnͧ͏̶̡̫͕ě̵͇̗̳̝̮̱̋̄̏̿̄ͅs̭͎̲̬͑̆͊̓ͤ̉͆̈͑
Topic Starter
Nifty
Okay, I changed a few things. Made the beginning as suggested, and I actually kinda understand what you mean by mapping to the main melody while also including that bg filler, and so I split the streams into xxxxx x xxxxx x patterns.

Added a couple finishers in the area where you said to use monostreams to "spice things up" (I just didn't think a stream would be an appropriate way of emphasizing those hits), but I did not add a finisher to the section you first referenced, since adding finishers there would mean adding finishers in the middle of the 1/3 section after to maintain consistency, which would be dumb.

I don't agree that sv is appropriate for this map. Although there are some areas where it could possibly be utilized, those areas would stand out way too much in comparison to the rest of the map to consider them appropriate to add in. The song is easygoing, and since some players think literally any sv changes at all are a burden, I also considered that as a factor in not applying sv to this map.

also I kind of want to rank something regular
Okoratu
idk what happened but futsuu, muzukashii and oni have an update to latest version upon redownloading, updating to latest version will just delete the diffs, in any case would update.

Nifty wrote:

I don't agree that sv is appropriate for this map. Although there are some areas where it could possibly be utilized, those areas would stand out way too much in comparison to the rest of the map to consider them appropriate to add in. The song is easygoing, and since some players think literally any sv changes at all are a burden, I also considered that as a factor in not applying sv to this map.

also I kind of want to rank something regular
i have no idea what you mean with that, you even already use SV in this map lol
it's like you write a lot of stuff as to why you wont do svs while you already do SVs lmao


aside from that the changes look neat!

[oni]
i think the sliders you used in inner could also be neat for oni.

00:20:189 - to 00:28:622 - should somehow maybe incorporate a 1/1 rest somewhere in my opinion, would make the equivalent part in the kiai stick out a bit more and diff-spike a bit less?

[muzukashii]
00:48:567 (219,220,221,222,223,224) - i think this isnt the best idea, you hear a lot of 1/3 sounds very loudly mixed into this and have to play 1/4, i think this might trip people up more than anything
Topic Starter
Nifty
Okay, I meant like, per-note sv usage, not just basic obvious stuff differentiating one section from the other, and the slowdown isn't really optional sv.

As for the lower diffs being bugged, that has happened with over half of my beatmaps, but when I checked this set it was fine :( I'll look into it when I get home. (rip almost every set I had planned for upload, now I have to remake the metadata, create a blank diff, then copy and paste the notes and timings into each .osu file, and even that only works half of the time, any recommendations on how else to fix this?)
Topic Starter
Nifty
Changed everything on Oko's mod,but the bug still remains. I'll do everything I know to fix it in the meantime. It's fixed oko pls come back
Lumenite-
heh, creamcore
Okoratu
so why did you make the metadata be wrong
Lumenite-
you dummy telling me okorin said it was ok to delete the period smh

i thought i could trust you smh
Topic Starter
Nifty
also that's literally the metadata that osu! has listen in the featured artists page. Are you literally only here to pop this map or something?
Okoratu
Topic Starter
Nifty
https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmaps/artists/17 Tell the "source" that.

Also, if you're really not gonna let a map pass to rank because of a minor change in metadata in order to bypass a known bug in the submission system, which has been proved as a known issue through mine and others' maps, I think you need to reassemble your priorities.
OzzyOzrock
are you kidding me
neonat
The osu site made that slight error, it happens even to the best of us
Pachiru
just put a point and re-bubble again instead of doing tons of discussion :(
Topic Starter
Nifty
I think we've decided to hold this set until the bug itself has been fixed. Discussing ranking maps that have this bug is pointless when you could be solving the problem at hand.

edit: you guys should read the thread before posting, this set used to have the bug where it would ask for an update and then wipe the map, and it was not fixed until I removed the dot.

EDIT 2 GUYS THE SET ISN'T ACTUALLY BUGGED ANYMORE AHAAAAH but the bug seriously still needs to be fixed.

edit 3: i went into editor and back out and it asked me to update. mission failed.
Okoratu
a redownload came out pending so i think it works? ? ? ?
Topic Starter
Nifty
MISSION SAVE MT. CAKE HAS REBOUNDED
Aurele
(╯°□°)╯︵
Please sign in to reply.

New reply