Thanks for your constructive criticism and generally helpful comments. I'm glad you took the time to write a civilized and respectful "mod" for my map.
Avena wrote:!summon Priti
Priti.exe has not been found
Shitmapper.exe has been downloaded.
This isn't going to be a conventional mod, just a general concern post.
First of all, the extremely generous (And fairly inconsistent) use of new combos + HP6 will just cause the HP Bar to drain super fast and make each miss very painful.
Also, OD9.3 is super harsh for such map, in general the map is overly harsh but we'll talk about that later.
00:45:499 - Lil' forced break by accident, probably because of an offset change.
The way I see this map is just "Let's map normally, but faster!", it looks like your every day map, but it's just much faster, if you'd take this and slow it down by x0.5, You'd just have a normal Insane difficulty. - that's what happens to most alt maps when you slow them down but ok
Which doesn't work, at all.
The thing you need to realize when mapping such dense songs is how hard it can get to constantly click notes while having to aim so precisely.
The map simply starts with pretty calm beats, and you already start using insane spacing, even though the song doesn't call for anything like that.
If the flow was linear/circular, I'd totally get it, it's a way to introduce the map's concepts to the player, but you're using a lot of sharp snap patterns such as 00:01:645 (1,2,1,2) - Which just feel extremely unnatural compared to the relaxed nature of the song on this part.
Then we get to this nice thing 00:06:783 (1,2,3) - It makes sense, but considering this looks like the spacing previously used and how high the OD is, It's nearly impossible to hit full 300s on this, most players will just read this as an off-rhythm 1/4 pattern or just won't be able to understand it.
The use of 1/8 gaps with big jumps like 00:16:853 (1,2) - causes very awkward snapping and really unfun movement. It becomes even more weird when there is nothing supporting such strange placement in the song like 00:18:520 (2) -
Some of your patterns just don't feel like they even try to make sense, and the placement is completely random, for example this pattern 00:35:325 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1) - Just doesn't seem to follow anything, not to mention that spamming NCs like that makes it really weird for players to pass, and can cause a sightread player to instantly fail the map. If you actually want to make this reasonable, you can use spacing that follows a certain logic and seperate the combos to combos of 3s to indicate the usage of 1/3
Fine I adjusted all of these. The 1/3 part is supposed to look random cuz the song sort of breaks down there so I wanted the map to as well. Hopefully the reverse gives enough of an idea that it's 1/3. I removed all the unreasonable 1/8's and reduced spacing on the ones I wanted to keep and nerfed some of the sharper earlier patterns even more than before.
And then we get to the kiai, and oh boy, the kiai.
The use of back and forth 1/4 patterns is just
The whole difficulty feels unnatural and awkward anyways, by implementing those patterns you just emphasize on the fact that you don't want your players to have fun. - I really don't think they make it.. "unfun" since I've never gotten a single complaint from people who can actually play this map that any part of it was awkward or unfun. The usage of back and forth 1/4's if you even bothered to read the post on the previous page which it doesn't seem you did you just came here to rant about the map, is because the whole kiai is already flowy and comfortable, so using the back and forth 1/4s is a method of contrast to that in order to bring out the intense spike of the song in those respective areas.
I get it, the song is intense, but the sounds aren't abnormal or inconsistent, they are pretty much a linear intense row of 1/4s.
So why not map them in a linear way, like the song implies?
The player has so much to worry about in this difficulty, from irregular beats, 1/6 bursts and generally intense gameplay, you now force them to have yet another concern, and that's snapping in patterns that don't feel good to play at all and don't actually follow any sort of structure or legitimate flow.
Yet another "unfun" thing that happens, is this pattern 01:32:061 (3,4) - It kicks extremely fast, and then you are forced to make a movement opposite to what the slider leniency implies, which causes in a seemingly random, super fast and unnatural snap movement. - I adjusted this.
I'm sorry, but this is far from a fun map, it uses tons of interesting concepts (Most of them are taken from Shiirn's version) but you just cluttered a crazy amount of gameplay elements which don't compliment each other into this single 116 second mess.
In all seriousness there's no need to be so hostile, I don't get what you're so offended about to call my map a mess. It's clearly not and most of it is structured internally within each part of the song. The song has very unique parts each with its own concepts so any mess you see is a consequence of me adapting to what the song is doing.
The back and forth 1/4s in the kiai have already been discussed and adjusted accordingly and an explanation can be found if you read back in the thread. I do not intend on removing them as they would not represent the intensity as a flowing square or triangle pattern. Especially not when I used those for other weaker sounds earlier in the map. I want contrast, and they provide contrast. They play fine and I've been told if I change them I lose a lot of the song expression and I'm inclined to agree with that. While you may think it is unfun I've gotten comments from players that can actually play this saying otherwise.
I should probably reply to the other mods while I'm here.
Smokeman wrote:short cancer mod before you rank this (might be too late)
01:38:728 (1,2) - you can make them overlap better just like 01:37:478 (1,2,1,2) - ot literaly any other slider you did in the map
01:48:311 (1,2,3) - This stacking concept looks out of place imo. Have 01:49:353 (3) - be stacked under 01:48:728 (2) - not 01:48:311 (1) - (do you feel the stack?). Tbh just recheck the stacking on the slider-ends of most sliders. There is a method to get them stacking even after loding up the map (or atleast better than how it is now oof) - there's that sharp cut-off piano that's why there's a stack but fixed the incorrect stack
01:52:895 (1,2,3,4) - "Just gonna grab this one out random". You do focus to represent different sounds in the song in different and unique ways in context of the map (see: 00:16:853 (1,1) - or 00:19:040 (1) - ). But here you expect a simple back and forth to do the trick. You have strong beats on 01:52:895 (1,2,4) - and a weak one 01:53:103 (3) - tho the spacing doesnt indicate that. Since this such a fast song players will most likely not even feel the "slight" difference in spacing you put there hence why i recommend to you to make it more noticable... is not 01:21:228 (2,3,4,5,1) - all over again. 288BPMm is pretty fast oke? https://puu.sh/xyiMh/31e7cfbdf0.png - adjusted all of this already
01:32:478 (1,2,3,4,1) - The spacing on this feels totally out of place in regard to 01:22:895 (4,5,6,7) - and how these were mapped in this manner on really distinct sounds. You have some kinda of scracth going on here so maybe sum sliders would fit it better cause sircles are harsher to hit than circles :s - also adjusted already
00:01:957 (2) - Why not put this here https://puu.sh/xyhAN/bc6ece2213.png so its less cancer to play from the start ?
00:27:061 (1,2,3) - this is 1/6th. You could put sliders if you are scared of the 1/6th. Oke i thought you were following the piano thingy cause you put a note on 00:26:853 (3) - . If you follow the piano melody then please follow the piano melody dont just switch to drums cause you scared of 1/6th cause there are some drums here aswell 00:26:645 - so alkcöasdlkv. :[ - i wanted drums here though, i follow piano everywhere else
01:21:853 (2) - this is really pedantic: https://puu.sh/xyibo/3178ef9dcd.png. 01:21:645 (1,2) - having as it is right now would imply some continuity with the sounds in the song from slider 1 to 2, BUT 01:21:645 (1) - is more of a buil-up for the climatic 01:21:853 (2) - instead. The mapping just doesnt reflect the sounds int he music very well and i am not gonna hammer this on every occurance cause w/e. - i don't get what you're talking about here, these are not supposed to be build up sliders to 2, but to 01:22:061 (3) - instead which i feel they accomplish?
01:29:561 (1,2) - these and 01:30:117 (3,4) - these shouldnt be on similar visual spacings. Make them more distinct cause this is a pretty heavy change from the usualy shenanigans the song does
01:37:061 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - This shoudl totally be decreasing in spacing/speed just like the song does on all its layers xd
01:38:728 (1,2) - Make this shape flater than 01:37:478 (1) - 01:38:415 (2) - cause 01:37:478 (1,2,1,2) - is following this wierd vocal line and the other one is the piano. Both flow into eachother nicely in the song but they still sound distinctivly different
01:45:707 (1,2,3,4) - you cheaky Bir running out of space. 01:46:020 (4) - Is slightly off screen and imo you should have this not directly in the corner. https://puu.sh/xyiGz/defd5b4049.png Tbh should've noticed when the slider end node/anchor was off the grid aswell xd
01:25:395 (1,1) - woudl really ctr+g these. The buildup sounds like it comes from one place and doesnt go up and down :S - i guess
Waanted to keep this short but i ended up just posting down thing i found bothering on a sightread and some time in the editor.
IMO The difficulty of mapping this song is in being able to represent all the different kind of sounds in a proper manner. After that you can think about visual consistency and all that jazz.
BG in 2k17 https://osu.ppy.sh/b/797681 lul
Edit: uhm didnt see this getting popped... so i might drop a full check when i am not sleepy and you want me to :S
Thanks you two.
00:39:770 (1,2,1) - not being mapped like 00:40:603 (1,2,3) - even if the music hasnt changed at all triggers me - the music does change, you have a transition in ambience to the latter 1,2,3 and the former is preceded by 00:39:770 (1) - which is a longer held out sound, the volume here is also quite low so the spacing is a lot lower here too
01:14:249 (1) - idk why you mapped this with a slider. pitch gets higher gradually so using circles and gradually increase spacing as the pitch does makes more sense to me - to set up the reversing motion that the back and forths will use and to provide leniency when going into them, the pitch also spikes on the circles not the reverse slider so i created a rhythm difference to show that
01:37:478 (1) - higher sv for every nc'd slider of this section would be cool ya - ehh i didn't do it before so i don't think it's necessary to do it here now
01:52:790 (4) - move it to x330y113 lol - adjusted before
If anyone wants to further argue that I didn't structure this map at all, that it's a mess completely, and that there was zero thought put into this diff whatsoever - please step forward with examples of places that I clearly made a mistake in mapping a certain way and that isn't consistent with another concept I already introduced in the map.
I feel like the only reason people are trying to shit on the map is 1. it's close in concept to Shiirn's and we all know how that went down, 2. 1/4 back and forths in the kiai are "too much" when I've never had any negative feedback from players about how they play and whether or not they were too straining, 3. the song is too different and i mapped it in different ways to show that so people automatically default to "inconsistent" and disregard the song itself being inconsistent.
Also if it "plays unfun" at least be able to play the map to a decent degree to give me actual feedback I can use playability wise or at least explain to me how it plays badly instead of just saying "the whole map feels awkward and unnatural" or "map it linear because my interpretation is the sound is linear so you should really map it how i think it should be mapped"
Honestly I'm getting a bit tired of repeating myself lol. Just read the thread and you'll get enough context. If you still disagree then bring up something I haven't heard before already. If you're going to shit on the map at least give me suggestions on how to fix it and if the whole thing is flawed then fucking say it so I can fix it. But if it's flawed just because you think it's not fun or it plays too awkwardly because of concepts that I used consistently throughout the map then don't bother. I played the map myself and got others to test it and nobody said it played awkwardly or unfun - in fact most liked it, which is what I'm going for.
IMO The difficulty of mapping this song is in being able to represent all the different kind of sounds in a proper manner.Doing this is impractical because of the BPM so I had to generalize my emphasis for the most part and where I did do it specifically eg kiais it's at very intense moments. If there are ways to represent the sounds in a way that wouldn't impact the pacing/flow/playability of the map in a negative way that lines up with how I vision it then please do provide some suggestions. I am always open to suggestions.
Updated along with Lasse's small update.