Camellia - Routing

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Topic Starter
Mir
Summary:
- Nerfed 01:17:270 (1,2,3,4) -
- Adjusted 01:52:061 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) -

That's about it.

Thanks Voli~
Avena
!summon Priti
Priti.exe has not been found
!summon Avena
Shitmapper.exe has been downloaded.

ANYWAYS
This isn't going to be a conventional mod, just a general concern post.
First of all, the extremely generous (And fairly inconsistent) use of new combos + HP6 will just cause the HP Bar to drain super fast and make each miss very painful.
Also, OD9.3 is super harsh for such map, in general the map is overly harsh but we'll talk about that later.
00:45:499 - Lil' forced break by accident, probably because of an offset change.

The way I see this map is just "Let's map normally, but faster!", it looks like your every day map, but it's just much faster, if you'd take this and slow it down by x0.5, You'd just have a normal Insane difficulty.
Which doesn't work, at all.
The thing you need to realize when mapping such dense songs is how hard it can get to constantly click notes while having to aim so precisely.
The map simply starts with pretty calm beats, and you already start using insane spacing, even though the song doesn't call for anything like that.
If the flow was linear/circular, I'd totally get it, it's a way to introduce the map's concepts to the player, but you're using a lot of sharp snap patterns such as 00:01:645 (1,2,1,2) - Which just feel extremely unnatural compared to the relaxed nature of the song on this part.
Then we get to this nice thing 00:06:783 (1,2,3) - It makes sense, but considering this looks like the spacing previously used and how high the OD is, It's nearly impossible to hit full 300s on this, most players will just read this as an off-rhythm 1/4 pattern or just won't be able to understand it.
The use of 1/8 gaps with big jumps like 00:16:853 (1,2) - causes very awkward snapping and really unfun movement. It becomes even more weird when there is nothing supporting such strange placement in the song like 00:18:520 (2) -
Some of your patterns just don't feel like they even try to make sense, and the placement is completely random, for example this pattern 00:35:325 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1) - Just doesn't seem to follow anything, not to mention that spamming NCs like that makes it really weird for players to pass, and can cause a sightread player to instantly fail the map. If you actually want to make this reasonable, you can use spacing that follows a certain logic and seperate the combos to combos of 3s to indicate the usage of 1/3
And then we get to the kiai, and oh boy, the kiai.
The use of back and forth 1/4 patterns is just
just
why.
The whole difficulty feels unnatural and awkward anyways, by implementing those patterns you just emphasize on the fact that you don't want your players to have fun.
I get it, the song is intense, but the sounds aren't abnormal or inconsistent, they are pretty much a linear intense row of 1/4s.
So why not map them in a linear way, like the song implies?
The player has so much to worry about in this difficulty, from irregular beats, 1/6 bursts and generally intense gameplay, you now force them to have yet another concern, and that's snapping in patterns that don't feel good to play at all and don't actually follow any sort of structure or legitimate flow.
Yet another "unfun" thing that happens, is this pattern 01:32:061 (3,4) - It kicks extremely fast, and then you are forced to make a movement opposite to what the slider leniency implies, which causes in a seemingly random, super fast and unnatural snap movement.

I'm sorry, but this is far from a fun map, it uses tons of interesting concepts (Most of them are taken from Shiirn's version) but you just cluttered a crazy amount of gameplay elements which don't compliment each other into this single 116 second mess.

my 11pm english is bad
Topic Starter
Mir

Avena wrote:

!summon Priti
Priti.exe has not been found
!summon Avena
Shitmapper.exe has been downloaded.

ANYWAYS
This isn't going to be a conventional mod, just a general concern post.
First of all, the extremely generous (And fairly inconsistent) use of new combos + HP6 will just cause the HP Bar to drain super fast and make each miss very painful.
Also, OD9.3 is super harsh for such map, in general the map is overly harsh but we'll talk about that later.
00:45:499 - Lil' forced break by accident, probably because of an offset change.

The way I see this map is just "Let's map normally, but faster!", it looks like your every day map, but it's just much faster, if you'd take this and slow it down by x0.5, You'd just have a normal Insane difficulty. - that's what happens to most alt maps when you slow them down but ok
Which doesn't work, at all.
The thing you need to realize when mapping such dense songs is how hard it can get to constantly click notes while having to aim so precisely.
The map simply starts with pretty calm beats, and you already start using insane spacing, even though the song doesn't call for anything like that.
If the flow was linear/circular, I'd totally get it, it's a way to introduce the map's concepts to the player, but you're using a lot of sharp snap patterns such as 00:01:645 (1,2,1,2) - Which just feel extremely unnatural compared to the relaxed nature of the song on this part.
Then we get to this nice thing 00:06:783 (1,2,3) - It makes sense, but considering this looks like the spacing previously used and how high the OD is, It's nearly impossible to hit full 300s on this, most players will just read this as an off-rhythm 1/4 pattern or just won't be able to understand it.
The use of 1/8 gaps with big jumps like 00:16:853 (1,2) - causes very awkward snapping and really unfun movement. It becomes even more weird when there is nothing supporting such strange placement in the song like 00:18:520 (2) -
Some of your patterns just don't feel like they even try to make sense, and the placement is completely random, for example this pattern 00:35:325 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1) - Just doesn't seem to follow anything, not to mention that spamming NCs like that makes it really weird for players to pass, and can cause a sightread player to instantly fail the map. If you actually want to make this reasonable, you can use spacing that follows a certain logic and seperate the combos to combos of 3s to indicate the usage of 1/3

Fine I adjusted all of these. The 1/3 part is supposed to look random cuz the song sort of breaks down there so I wanted the map to as well. Hopefully the reverse gives enough of an idea that it's 1/3. I removed all the unreasonable 1/8's and reduced spacing on the ones I wanted to keep and nerfed some of the sharper earlier patterns even more than before.

And then we get to the kiai, and oh boy, the kiai.
The use of back and forth 1/4 patterns is just
just
why.
The whole difficulty feels unnatural and awkward anyways, by implementing those patterns you just emphasize on the fact that you don't want your players to have fun. - I really don't think they make it.. "unfun" since I've never gotten a single complaint from people who can actually play this map that any part of it was awkward or unfun. The usage of back and forth 1/4's if you even bothered to read the post on the previous page which it doesn't seem you did you just came here to rant about the map, is because the whole kiai is already flowy and comfortable, so using the back and forth 1/4s is a method of contrast to that in order to bring out the intense spike of the song in those respective areas.
I get it, the song is intense, but the sounds aren't abnormal or inconsistent, they are pretty much a linear intense row of 1/4s.
So why not map them in a linear way, like the song implies?
The player has so much to worry about in this difficulty, from irregular beats, 1/6 bursts and generally intense gameplay, you now force them to have yet another concern, and that's snapping in patterns that don't feel good to play at all and don't actually follow any sort of structure or legitimate flow.
Yet another "unfun" thing that happens, is this pattern 01:32:061 (3,4) - It kicks extremely fast, and then you are forced to make a movement opposite to what the slider leniency implies, which causes in a seemingly random, super fast and unnatural snap movement. - I adjusted this.

I'm sorry, but this is far from a fun map, it uses tons of interesting concepts (Most of them are taken from Shiirn's version) but you just cluttered a crazy amount of gameplay elements which don't compliment each other into this single 116 second mess.
Thanks for your constructive criticism and generally helpful comments. I'm glad you took the time to write a civilized and respectful "mod" for my map.

In all seriousness there's no need to be so hostile, I don't get what you're so offended about to call my map a mess. It's clearly not and most of it is structured internally within each part of the song. The song has very unique parts each with its own concepts so any mess you see is a consequence of me adapting to what the song is doing.

The back and forth 1/4s in the kiai have already been discussed and adjusted accordingly and an explanation can be found if you read back in the thread. I do not intend on removing them as they would not represent the intensity as a flowing square or triangle pattern. Especially not when I used those for other weaker sounds earlier in the map. I want contrast, and they provide contrast. They play fine and I've been told if I change them I lose a lot of the song expression and I'm inclined to agree with that. While you may think it is unfun I've gotten comments from players that can actually play this saying otherwise.

I should probably reply to the other mods while I'm here.

Smokeman wrote:

short cancer mod before you rank this (might be too late)

comfort

01:38:728 (1,2) - you can make them overlap better just like 01:37:478 (1,2,1,2) - ot literaly any other slider you did in the map
01:48:311 (1,2,3) - This stacking concept looks out of place imo. Have 01:49:353 (3) - be stacked under 01:48:728 (2) - not 01:48:311 (1) - (do you feel the stack?). Tbh just recheck the stacking on the slider-ends of most sliders. There is a method to get them stacking even after loding up the map (or atleast better than how it is now oof) - there's that sharp cut-off piano that's why there's a stack but fixed the incorrect stack
01:52:895 (1,2,3,4) - "Just gonna grab this one out random". You do focus to represent different sounds in the song in different and unique ways in context of the map (see: 00:16:853 (1,1) - or 00:19:040 (1) - ). But here you expect a simple back and forth to do the trick. You have strong beats on 01:52:895 (1,2,4) - and a weak one 01:53:103 (3) - tho the spacing doesnt indicate that. Since this such a fast song players will most likely not even feel the "slight" difference in spacing you put there hence why i recommend to you to make it more noticable... is not 01:21:228 (2,3,4,5,1) - all over again. 288BPMm is pretty fast oke? https://puu.sh/xyiMh/31e7cfbdf0.png - adjusted all of this already
01:32:478 (1,2,3,4,1) - The spacing on this feels totally out of place in regard to 01:22:895 (4,5,6,7) - and how these were mapped in this manner on really distinct sounds. You have some kinda of scracth going on here so maybe sum sliders would fit it better cause sircles are harsher to hit than circles :s - also adjusted already
00:01:957 (2) - Why not put this here https://puu.sh/xyhAN/bc6ece2213.png so its less cancer to play from the start ?
00:27:061 (1,2,3) - this is 1/6th. You could put sliders if you are scared of the 1/6th. Oke i thought you were following the piano thingy cause you put a note on 00:26:853 (3) - . If you follow the piano melody then please follow the piano melody dont just switch to drums cause you scared of 1/6th cause there are some drums here aswell 00:26:645 - so alkcöasdlkv. :[ - i wanted drums here though, i follow piano everywhere else
01:21:853 (2) - this is really pedantic: https://puu.sh/xyibo/3178ef9dcd.png. 01:21:645 (1,2) - having as it is right now would imply some continuity with the sounds in the song from slider 1 to 2, BUT 01:21:645 (1) - is more of a buil-up for the climatic 01:21:853 (2) - instead. The mapping just doesnt reflect the sounds int he music very well and i am not gonna hammer this on every occurance cause w/e. - i don't get what you're talking about here, these are not supposed to be build up sliders to 2, but to 01:22:061 (3) - instead which i feel they accomplish?
01:29:561 (1,2) - these and 01:30:117 (3,4) - these shouldnt be on similar visual spacings. Make them more distinct cause this is a pretty heavy change from the usualy shenanigans the song does
01:37:061 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - This shoudl totally be decreasing in spacing/speed just like the song does on all its layers xd
01:38:728 (1,2) - Make this shape flater than 01:37:478 (1) - 01:38:415 (2) - cause 01:37:478 (1,2,1,2) - is following this wierd vocal line and the other one is the piano. Both flow into eachother nicely in the song but they still sound distinctivly different
01:45:707 (1,2,3,4) - you cheaky Bir running out of space. 01:46:020 (4) - Is slightly off screen and imo you should have this not directly in the corner. https://puu.sh/xyiGz/defd5b4049.png Tbh should've noticed when the slider end node/anchor was off the grid aswell xd
01:25:395 (1,1) - woudl really ctr+g these. The buildup sounds like it comes from one place and doesnt go up and down :S - i guess


Waanted to keep this short but i ended up just posting down thing i found bothering on a sightread and some time in the editor.

IMO The difficulty of mapping this song is in being able to represent all the different kind of sounds in a proper manner. After that you can think about visual consistency and all that jazz.

BG in 2k17 https://osu.ppy.sh/b/797681 lul

Edit: uhm didnt see this getting popped... so i might drop a full check when i am not sleepy and you want me to :S

pkhg wrote:

hihi

reverb
00:39:770 (1,2,1) - not being mapped like 00:40:603 (1,2,3) - even if the music hasnt changed at all triggers me - the music does change, you have a transition in ambience to the latter 1,2,3 and the former is preceded by 00:39:770 (1) - which is a longer held out sound, the volume here is also quite low so the spacing is a lot lower here too
01:14:249 (1) - idk why you mapped this with a slider. pitch gets higher gradually so using circles and gradually increase spacing as the pitch does makes more sense to me - to set up the reversing motion that the back and forths will use and to provide leniency when going into them, the pitch also spikes on the circles not the reverse slider so i created a rhythm difference to show that
01:37:478 (1) - higher sv for every nc'd slider of this section would be cool ya - ehh i didn't do it before so i don't think it's necessary to do it here now
01:52:790 (4) - move it to x330y113 lol - adjusted before
Thanks you two.

If anyone wants to further argue that I didn't structure this map at all, that it's a mess completely, and that there was zero thought put into this diff whatsoever - please step forward with examples of places that I clearly made a mistake in mapping a certain way and that isn't consistent with another concept I already introduced in the map.

I feel like the only reason people are trying to shit on the map is 1. it's close in concept to Shiirn's and we all know how that went down, 2. 1/4 back and forths in the kiai are "too much" when I've never had any negative feedback from players about how they play and whether or not they were too straining, 3. the song is too different and i mapped it in different ways to show that so people automatically default to "inconsistent" and disregard the song itself being inconsistent.

Also if it "plays unfun" at least be able to play the map to a decent degree to give me actual feedback I can use playability wise or at least explain to me how it plays badly instead of just saying "the whole map feels awkward and unnatural" or "map it linear because my interpretation is the sound is linear so you should really map it how i think it should be mapped"

Honestly I'm getting a bit tired of repeating myself lol. Just read the thread and you'll get enough context. If you still disagree then bring up something I haven't heard before already. If you're going to shit on the map at least give me suggestions on how to fix it and if the whole thing is flawed then fucking say it so I can fix it. But if it's flawed just because you think it's not fun or it plays too awkwardly because of concepts that I used consistently throughout the map then don't bother. I played the map myself and got others to test it and nobody said it played awkwardly or unfun - in fact most liked it, which is what I'm going for.

IMO The difficulty of mapping this song is in being able to represent all the different kind of sounds in a proper manner.
Doing this is impractical because of the BPM so I had to generalize my emphasis for the most part and where I did do it specifically eg kiais it's at very intense moments. If there are ways to represent the sounds in a way that wouldn't impact the pacing/flow/playability of the map in a negative way that lines up with how I vision it then please do provide some suggestions. I am always open to suggestions.

Updated along with Lasse's small update.
Avena
I got a few players to test this because I was curious, and I noticed a trend
Xilver had an insanely good combo for most of the map, he did have a few breaks, but overall he played insanely well
But everyone, including him messed up completely on this pattern 01:52:061 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) -
Topic Starter
Mir
I redid the last part to be less continuous stream and more jumpy like the song suggests. This should work better and be less of a reading challenge with unfair strain. It's also more consistent with the intro but I don't think that's as important.

Also replaced the 1/3 with triangles! I know we all love triangles. (they're not that bad I think)
Xilver15
o/ Mir wanted me to check the top diff.

22:18 Xilver: o/
22:18 Mir: o/
22:19 Mir: as was defined to me transition notes are things like 00:05:395 (1) - 00:15:915 (4) - etc
22:19 Mir: i guess to keep the intensity somewhat fluid and to avoid a drop in pacing
22:19 Mir: i was told they might be a bit questionably placed
22:20 Xilver: questionably placed?
22:20 Xilver: The only thing I can see is you sometimes have inconsistent angles
22:20 Mir: yeah like.. maybe too high spacing or they play weird
22:20 Xilver: stuff like 00:01:957 (2,1,2) - is sharp between 1 and 2
22:20 Xilver: giving 2 unnecessary emphasis
22:21 Xilver: compared to stuff like 00:05:395 (1,2) - which is a lot more fluid
22:21 Mir: mm that was one that was mentioned
22:21 Mir: does 2 really gain that much more emphasis
22:22 Mir: well i moved 1 anyways
22:22 Xilver: Yeah the angles definitely make it seem that way
22:22 Xilver: 00:01:645 (1,2,1) - this movement is uncomfortable anyway to begin with
22:23 Mir: how's this instead https://puu.sh/xC6O3/c7f497b3cf.png
22:23 Xilver: hmm that should do it
22:23 Xilver: It's more consistent with your other ones
22:24 Mir: alright i'll leave it like that then
22:24 Xilver: 00:26:540 (2,3) - not too sure about about this
22:25 Xilver: You have like, almost half a second where the player does nothing
22:25 Mir: hmm
22:26 Xilver: brb
22:26 Mir: i wanted to kinda emphasize the pause of the piano
22:27 Xilver: alright sorry lol
22:27 Xilver: uuumm
22:27 Xilver: I think the problem is more with the spacing
22:28 Xilver: It's too close apart IMO
22:29 Xilver: If you spaced it out more I think it would provide that effect better, right now I feel like it's too "strong"
22:29 Mir: hmm
22:29 Mir: alright i moved it under00:25:707 (3) - the reverse of this
22:31 Xilver: Yeah that should be alright
22:32 Xilver: Is there anything else?
22:33 Mir: anything else you could find would be cool but
22:33 Mir: what do you think of the sharp angles in the kiai
22:33 Xilver: There are a few other things but they're really minor subjective
22:33 Xilver: hmm
22:34 Xilver: You mean the jumps?
22:34 Mir: mhm
22:35 Xilver: You seem to use them pretty consistently so I don't see a problem with them
22:36 Xilver: I think there are some instances where you use them too much though
22:36 Mir: consistency aside
22:36 Mir: where do you think so
22:36 Xilver: like, stuff like this 01:17:790 (1,2,1) -
22:37 Xilver: I would personally try to emphasize that last slider
22:37 Mir: spacing too high there?
22:37 Xilver: Having sharp movement there means it blends too much with the previous parts of the kiai
22:37 Xilver: and it feels weak
22:37 Xilver: But that's up to you if you want to put emphasis on it or not lol, I just personally would'
22:38 Mir: those aren't necessarily sharp are they though? o.o
22:38 Xilver: the angle is REALLY sharp
22:39 Mir: maybe if moved 2 up a bit?
22:40 Mir: perhaps an arrangement like this might work https://puu.sh/xC7Cy/9c40990bd0.png ?
22:41 Xilver: https://i.imgur.com/0L75ofc.jpg
22:41 Mir: yeah i see that now
22:41 Xilver: yeah anything that would like, make it less sharp would contrast pretty well
22:41 Mir: i moved it from that to be less wide
22:41 Mir: i mean less sharp and more wide
22:41 Xilver: yeah
22:42 Xilver: 01:24:249 (1,2,3,1) - same here too
22:42 Xilver: If you're going to do it for the first one
22:43 Mir: mm there i think it's more justified to be sharp since it's more intense than the one before it
22:43 Xilver: ah, fair enough
22:43 Xilver: Overall though the angles are good
22:44 Mir: alright that's good to know
22:44 Mir: if there's nothing else you can actually post this for kds
22:44 Mir: or if not i'll ask your permission to provide the log regardless for.. uh.. evidence
22:46 Xilver: I could post it if you want
22:46 Mir: sure
22:50 Mir: how about the movement here specifically 01:52:582 (2,3,1,2,3,4) -
22:50 Xilver: oh actually
22:50 Xilver: I would ctrlg 01:53:103 (3,4) -
22:51 Xilver: It'd create better contrast and make the movement less circular
22:51 Mir: i want it to end on the bottom of the screen for emphasis through gravity
22:51 Mir: so maybe
22:52 Xilver: Since you used pretty circular movement throughout 01:52:061 (1,2,3,1,2,3) -
22:52 Mir: how many ways to arrange a 4 note jump pattern
22:52 Xilver: hmm well to me it's anything that would break the circle
22:53 Mir: how about https://puu.sh/xC8ak/ed4599290f.png
22:53 Mir: i can ctrl+2,3
22:53 Mir: or even
22:54 Xilver: https://i.imgur.com/K526gay.png
22:54 Xilver: ?
22:54 Mir: so this happens instead https://puu.sh/xC8bI/2226497f6f.png
22:54 Mir: lol. https://puu.sh/xC8cF/f93f4ef6ff.png
22:54 Mir: yeah i did something like thta
22:54 Mir: cool
22:54 Xilver: heh
22:54 Xilver: nice
22:55 Xilver: yeah sweet I think the end would feel more powerful that way
22:55 Mir: nice
1km
good map kek ;) hope this gets ranked
Hobbes2
we irc'd i want to bubble

19:16 Hobbes2: mur
19:16 Mir: bbBBbb2
19:16 Hobbes2: i blame my shitty keyboard
19:16 Mir: lemme quickly use the restroom
19:16 Hobbes2: ok
19:18 Mir: ok
19:18 Mir: shoot me
19:18 Hobbes2: ok
19:18 Hobbes2: lowest diff
19:18 Hobbes2: 01:17:895 (3,4) -
19:19 Mir: yes
19:19 Hobbes2: the head is clap but the tail and reverse are melody
19:19 Hobbes2: puke
19:19 Mir: can't do it any other way baws
19:19 Mir: blame beginner limits
19:19 Hobbes2: yeah i spent like 10 minutes figuring out an alternative
19:19 Hobbes2: to no avail
19:19 Hobbes2: so whatever
19:20 Hobbes2: 01:02:686 (5,6) - i think you should make these a slider, i dont think theres been much setup for this kind of 3/4 spacing in this map yet
19:20 Hobbes2: so it could throw of the player
19:20 Mir: 3/4 spacing?
19:20 Hobbes2: like i guess theres 00:56:645 (1,2,3) - this?
19:20 Hobbes2: i mean to make it readable
19:21 Mir: they're the same
19:21 Mir: idk what you mean
19:21 Mir: x.x
19:21 Hobbes2: i mean its not sightreadable
19:21 Hobbes2: for a normal
19:21 Mir: how so?
19:21 Mir: what's wrong with it
19:21 Hobbes2: it might have been if you had setup for this kind of 3/4 rhythm
19:21 Hobbes2: especially active rhythm
19:21 Hobbes2: but its like the first one so its kinda like how do u expect that
19:21 Mir: there's no 3/4 active rhythm
19:22 Mir: oh
19:22 Mir: you're in normal
19:22 Mir: tell me when you move
19:22 Hobbes2: gg
19:22 Hobbes2: my bad
19:22 Hobbes2: anyway this is a super minor complaint
19:22 Hobbes2: its not the worst, a lot of players can probably figure it out
19:22 Mir: i have to introduce it somewhere since i use it around kiai
19:22 Hobbes2: but still ehh
19:22 Mir: 01:35:395 (1,2,3) -
19:23 Mir: 01:37:478 (1,2) - etc
19:23 Hobbes2: yeah i noticed
19:23 Hobbes2: whatever i guess its fine
19:23 Mir: i could
19:23 Mir: 00:26:853 - map this
19:23 Mir: so it's kind active
19:23 Hobbes2: thats a good idea
19:23 Hobbes2: just some kind of really simple introduction to the spacing
19:23 Hobbes2: so its obvious later
19:23 Mir: or make 00:39:145 (1) - active
19:24 Hobbes2: u go from level 1 to level 2 to level 3 in the kiai
19:24 Hobbes2: i like mapping 00:26:853 -
19:24 Hobbes2: seems good to me
19:24 Mir: okay i just made that active and mapped the previous thing
19:24 Mir: so there's now 2 places you get active 3/4
19:24 Hobbes2: cool
19:25 Hobbes2: ok uhh
19:26 Hobbes2: 01:51:228 (5) - DS i think
19:26 Mir: fixerooni
19:26 Hobbes2: adv
19:27 Hobbes2: this diff is pretty good
19:27 Hobbes2: 00:32:895 (4,5,1) - another example of something i didnt like but thers not really a better way to do it
19:27 Hobbes2: so w/e
19:27 Hobbes2: 00:37:061 (1) - missing a finish or something
19:28 Mir: added finito
19:28 Hobbes2: 00:38:728 (2,3) - i think this should be a slider
19:29 Mir: hmm
19:29 Hobbes2: i had a reason earlier and im trying to remember what it was
19:29 Mir: i don't really like that idea since the dingly stuff in the back is quite active
19:29 Mir: i think circles represent that better
19:29 Hobbes2: sure i guess
19:29 Mir: i already have a direction change on 2 just for that extra emphasis
19:29 Hobbes2: 00:57:374 (2,1) - its ya boi overlap nazi
19:30 Mir: OH GOD
19:30 Hobbes2: 00:54:145 (1,1) - and his younger brother
19:30 Mir: NUEKd that shit
19:30 Hobbes2: overlap fascist
19:30 Mir: fixed them all
19:30 Mir: jesus
19:30 Hobbes2: kiais are cool
19:31 Hobbes2: 01:37:478 (1,2) -
19:31 Hobbes2: visual flow here is ass
19:32 Mir: okay dad gosh
19:32 Mir: moved a few pixels
19:32 Hobbes2: hyper
19:32 Hobbes2: 01:18:520 (2,3,4) -
19:32 Hobbes2: i misread this first time becaus eits the first 1/4 where you space it away from the previous object
19:33 Hobbes2: whereas usually this kind of spacing tended to indicate a 1/2 gap
19:33 Mir: you're right
19:33 Mir: i'll swallow the overlap and just do it
19:33 Hobbes2: i dont count 01:14:249 (1,2) - because its like
19:33 Hobbes2: super obviously different
19:34 Mir: 00:20:186 (2,3,4) - hm
19:34 Mir: lol
19:34 Mir: moved those i suppose
19:34 Hobbes2: 01:37:061 (4,1) - back in the advanced
19:34 Hobbes2: DS this normally
19:35 Hobbes2: 01:29:978 (1,2) -
19:35 Mir: huh
19:35 Mir: the ds is fine there to me
19:35 Hobbes2: that was all for the advanced i knew i forgot something z-L
19:35 Hobbes2: yeah the first one
19:35 Hobbes2: u ds'd it like 1.6
19:35 Hobbes2: make it like the second one
19:35 Mir: wha
19:35 Mir: 01:29:978 (1,2) - this?
19:35 Hobbes2: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9318401
19:35 Hobbes2: did i copy thwrong thing
19:36 Hobbes2: no i copied the right thing
19:36 Hobbes2: back in teh advanced
19:36 Hobbes2: ----^^^
19:36 Mir: yes
19:36 Mir: fixed it
19:36 Hobbes2: cool
19:36 Hobbes2: back to the yper
19:36 Mir: you didn't
19:36 Mir: you copied the 1:29
19:36 Hobbes2: no
19:36 Hobbes2: i coped the 137
19:36 Hobbes2: and then copied the 129 as the example of the correct thing
19:37 Hobbes2: u buffoon think you can outsmart the HO B B B ES
19:37 Hobbes2: kiai of hyper is well done
19:37 Mir: >:
19:37 Mir: oki lets go back
19:37 Mir: oh you fucking phrased it wrong
19:37 Hobbes2: oh
19:37 Hobbes2: gg
19:37 Hobbes2: anywayyyayay
19:37 Hobbes2: back to the hyper
19:37 Hobbes2: i think for 01:37:478 (1,2,3) -
19:38 Hobbes2: since u followed the synth here which makes sense because its kinda all thats there
19:38 Hobbes2: i think 01:39:353 - should be like
19:38 Hobbes2: a slider or something
19:38 Hobbes2: switching to that vocal chop thing is kinda...meh
19:39 Mir: okay
19:39 Mir: slider'd
19:39 Hobbes2: 01:45:395 (2,3) -
19:39 Hobbes2: 01:42:895 (1,2) -
19:39 Hobbes2: top 10 anime inconsistencies
19:39 Mir: those aren't even the same things
19:40 Hobbes2: right but when u space different things the same
19:40 Hobbes2: ya boy eyes fuck your brain so hard that you cant land anything
19:40 Mir: LLL
19:40 Hobbes2: well any person and their mother could probably land that
19:40 Hobbes2: whatever
19:40 Mir: kk moved the repeats closer
19:40 Hobbes2: oh
19:40 Hobbes2: cool
19:40 Hobbes2: thats all for the hyper
19:40 Mir: 01:51:645 (1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1) - should be fine though?
19:40 Hobbes2: yeah
19:41 Mir: kk
19:41 Hobbes2: because its like the post climax psuedo climax
19:41 Hobbes2: the another was more or less good i think there wwas one thign
19:42 Mir: owo
19:42 Hobbes2: 00:33:728 (1,2) - these have the same hitsound
19:42 Hobbes2: but the sounds are like notably different
19:42 Hobbes2: actually thats a non issue ignore that
19:43 Mir: o.o
19:43 Mir: okay
19:43 Hobbes2: 00:53:936 (3) - this being clicable takes away from teh synth focused rhythm
19:44 Mir: doesn't that have a synth on it
19:44 Hobbes2: oh
19:44 Hobbes2: its a different instrument
19:44 Hobbes2: eh i guess it works
19:44 Hobbes2: brb
19:44 Mir: oki
19:45 Hobbes2: back
19:45 Mir: hello
19:46 Hobbes2: jk there was nothing for this diff
19:46 Hobbes2: nothin g for lasse's either
19:46 Mir: LOL
19:46 Mir: okay
19:46 Hobbes2: i was in the middle of the topdiff when the wthing restarted
19:46 Hobbes2: so
19:46 Mir: now for the controversial diff
19:46 Hobbes2: to reverb we go
19:47 Mir: ohhh
19:48 Hobbes2: 00:01:645 (1,2) -
19:48 Mir: yeah yeah
19:48 Hobbes2: i dont think 2 is necessary
19:48 Mir: that's pretty much the gist of it
19:48 Mir: yeah it's not
19:48 Mir: removed and extended 1
19:49 Mir: 00:08:311 - did for this too
19:50 Hobbes2: 00:06:801 (1,2,3,1) - consider http://puu.sh/xYi3V/3dedcd9c71.jpg this arrangement
19:50 Hobbes2: its like super minor but it hink its better
19:50 Mir: i was told by kaifin this way works better to show the snapping difference from 3 to 1
19:50 Hobbes2: i think the opposite lol
19:50 Mir: hmm
19:51 Mir: i would rather keep it this way since it works somewhat like a stack
19:51 Hobbes2: yeah i guess i can see that
19:51 Hobbes2: the problem is its not quite a stack so
19:51 Hobbes2: thats kinda where that falls apart imo
19:51 Hobbes2: maybe if you moved it closer i could see that
19:52 Mir: hgnhgnh
19:52 Mir: let me ask someone
19:52 Hobbes2: if you dont want ot change it thats fine, just giving my opinion
19:53 Mir: no im kinda on the border of that too
19:56 Mir: just throw me the other stuff
19:56 Mir: im asking people atm
19:56 Hobbes2: ok
19:57 Hobbes2: 00:19:145 (2,1,2,3,1) - why is this spaced so high
19:57 Hobbes2: its consistently really hard for me to land
19:58 Hobbes2: feels kinda unnecessary
19:58 Hobbes2: brb i need to floss something out of mey teeth
19:59 Hobbes2: ok
19:59 Hobbes2: 00:32:686 (1,2,3,1) - something like this is more reasoanable
19:59 Mir: lowered it
19:59 Hobbes2: 00:39:457 (1,1) - was this supposed to be a blanket
20:00 Mir: yes and it looks fine
20:00 Hobbes2: thinking
20:00 Hobbes2: 00:49:353 (2,4) - its ya boy stack nazi
20:01 Mir: wew
20:01 Mir: fixerooni'd
20:01 Hobbes2: 00:53:936 (3,2) - this is less nazi and more of actual slip
20:02 Hobbes2: kiias are fine imo
20:03 Mir: cool
20:03 Mir: i nerfed one thing
20:03 Mir: 01:16:020 (3,4) - made this jump a bit smaller
20:03 Hobbes2: thats all from my end
20:03 Hobbes2: whenever you update ill just playtest the top 3 on elast time and then we'll go from there
20:04 Mir: alright uploading now
20:05 Hobbes2: neat
20:05 Mir: done
20:05 Mir: sr down again
20:05 Mir: nerferino
20:06 Hobbes2: ok redling
20:06 Hobbes2: time to fail some maps
20:08 Hobbes2: maybe the last two notes are a bit cancer but thats what makes it fun amirite
20:08 Hobbes2: the kiais on that diff are super fun
20:09 Mir: :D
20:11 Hobbes2: seemsgood
20:11 Mir: hellyea
20:12 Hobbes2: whatever pretend i passe
20:12 Hobbes2: i passed it earlier before the nerf so that must mean something
20:12 Mir: tfw you got past the hard part
20:12 Hobbes2: as in earlier today
20:13 Mir: yeah i didn't rly change that much
20:13 Mir: everything i changed you already saw
20:13 Mir: so
20:13 Hobbes2: well yeah seems good let me just make sure the lwo diffs were changed right
20:13 Mir: yehaj
20:14 Hobbes2: cool
20:14 Hobbes2: seems good
20:15 Mir: gucci
20:17 Hobbes2: sets fine
20:17 Hobbes2: ilet me save log and remove the incriminating stuff
Topic Starter
Mir
We determined the raised concerns were either fixed or addressed in a satisfactory manner.

Some nerfs and QOL improvements on the topdiff were made regarding some more spacing, and that's about all the major things.
Hobbes2
no edgy poem 0/10
Uta

Mir wrote:

Thanks Voli~
who is voli
pishifat
veto reason: your map is poo poo
or uh just check aimod in top diff

hitsound volume in intro/outro should really be quieter. song is so quiet but objects are so loud (applies more to the general piano stuff and 00:10:082 (1,2,1,2,3,4) - . louder sounds like 00:01:645 (1) - 00:02:895 (1,2,3) - etc would be ok with higher volume)

top diff
00:34:874 (1) - even out second curve pls
00:40:395 (1) - might not need new combo. seems better to go with the consistent 3s on ends of triples if you're gonna do it for everything after this
00:56:645 (1) - your stacking in these repeated slider sections is a good reason to veto actually

lasse
00:43:103 (1) - weird to give this a nc but not 00:42:895 (3) - . going with nc both or neither would fit fine

anohter
00:46:020 (1,1) - tails could use 5%. sounds better on top diff where they're on a different snap, but 1/8 on this diff sounds more spammy :(
00:56:645 (1) - u sucked at stacking here too
01:23:207 (7,1) - dont think you should stick to ds on this sv change. looks more like a mistake than anything after all the other consistent spacing streams

normal
00:40:186 (1) - weird that all ur other diffs start this spinner on white tick 1/2 later. should probably move it there
01:09:353 (6,7,1) - consistent spacing my dude

beginner
00:58:207 (1) - would end on white tick tbh. stronger sound and easier to interpret for scrubs

call me/hobbes back!!!
Sinnoh
agree this map is 💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩

please remap
Lasse
true, nc 00:42:895 (3) - for me, thank
Topic Starter
Mir
applied all and updated

looks like this is back
Hobbes2
pishi i know you're reading htis please rank experiment A thanks, im pretty sure i can get PP from the expert at this point
Topic Starter
Mir
wtf dont hijack my thread like that 😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡
pishifat
no
Nao Tomori
Honestly the hate on Mir is sickening. He is not only one of the most active mappers in the community, but also one of the greatest mappers to enter the scene. Whether it is concise maps like My Sweet Maiden or ingeniously crafted maps like Papayapa Bass Mir has never failed to deliver some of the most creative maps the playerbase has ever seen.

He has revived old classics like “Sendan Life” and “Routing,” skillfully mastering the perfect balance of flow and playability. His maps are perhaps the pinnacle of geometrical perfection, and if you downplay his successes and contributions to the mapping community, you’re probably a faggot.
Pachiru
mir please become my mentor :(
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