adjusted the shape of the spaced triple, can barely hear the missed beat and it's not important for the song, other things are pretty clear 1/2 emphasis to me
holy fucking shit this took a while to reply to
00:02:374 (3) - The sound this is representing isn't particularly held and actually sharply cuts off. I see that you want to represent the held part of this that starts on 00:02:478 - so I recommend you use a 1/4 reverse here instead. - it is actually held and a 1/4 reverse would overmap the reverse and i don't want that so this is fine as is imo
00:02:895 (1,2,3) - Contrast here is off due to the large spacing between 1,2. I recommend either lowering the spacing between 1 and 2 or increasing the spacing between 2 and 3, since right now there is actually less emphasis to 3. If you lower spacing between 1 and 2 make sure to also lower the spacing between 00:02:061 (1,2) - so that this spacing stands out relatively. - this was a mistake
00:10:082 (1) - I never thought I'd see the day...
00:10:707 (4) - At 00:04:040 (4) - you had an angle change to emphasize the sharp piano sound but here you don't have any such angle change, so I recommend using the same slider arrangement that you had before. - removed angle change
00:35:325 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1) - I have a dream that one day you will stop NC spamming for 1/3. - it's not necessarily for the 1/3 more for just the overall feel of the section, idk how to explain it tbh but it feels just weird to have it all nc'd and that represents it perfectly to me
00:36:228 (1,1) - On a more serious note, I recommend you use a slider instead of a circle here to fit the low held sound as well as using a higher SV for the second slider, since right now due to the lack of motion and the rhythm gap the contrast into the second make these beats feel weaker than necessary. Ending the second slider on 00:36:540 (1) - also lets you represent that "AAAAH" sound and should provide contrast should you increase the SV of the second slider. - i adjusted things here so we'll see how this plays out
00:46:332 (1,1) - Due to the spacing here, the transition into the next section feels really weak. I recommend overlapping the head of this with the tail of 00:46:020 (1) - and raising the SV of the second slider. You could also add a nice swinging motion by ctrl+g on the first slider. - emphasis is more on 00:46:645 - though so i think this is fine?
00:46:853 (1,2,3) - 00:50:186 (1,2,3) - Wrongly snapped, this should be 1/6 and there are 4 notes here.
00:56:645 - Since you're using extended sliders, the sliders in this section and similar sections are very underwhelming in play and don't fit the synth very well I suggest drastically increasing the SV here. - i'm gonna pull the subjective card and say I quite like how these are since the synth doesn't feel like it's decreasing in intensity it's fairly constant so i didn't change the sv
01:16:436 (6,7) - It'd be cool if you made the spacing decrease more obvious here to match the pitch of the synth better and provide more contrast to the next beat.
01:30:915 (2,3) - I think stacking these would work better, since the equal spacing blends these together a bit too much to make it clear on whether or not you're prioritizing synth or piano. - always vocals here so no stack for meh
01:52:061 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - I don't think blending together the various instruments for an end stream works too well here since you finish it off with 1/4 jumps, creating an artificial difficulty spike. I would recommend having 01:52:374 (4,3) - as 1/4 sliders to prioritize the piano, switching to drums for the final jumps instead. - whaaaaaaaa they're all just mapped to the drums, no instrument blending involved and the way i made this flow sets up the 1/4 jumps quite intuitively (if you can possibly pass with decent combo i don't think this is that hard to hit since there are harder patterns in the kiai)
00:35:395 (1,1,1,1) - It doesn't make sense that you're using more misleading 1/3 in this difficulty than your top difficulty. The combination of NCing and relatively even visual distance makes this a reading difficulty spike. Musically it also makes sense to pair these 1/3 together and make them both repeats, and you can show the intensity decrease with SV and motion. Something like this could work.
00:40:186 (1,1,1,1,1,1) - I recommend making this an actual buildup by changing 00:41:020 (1,1) - into 1/4 slider + circle patterns and 00:41:853 (1,1) - into stacked circles. You can also make 00:42:686 (1,2,1) - more spaced to have contrast there as well.
01:28:415 (2,3) - Yes.
00:18:103 - I think you should map this note since its part of the melody that you're following, since right now skipping this seems like unnecessary simplification. - i legit don't hear anything there lmfao
00:34:145 (4,5,1) - I know you wanted to make the kick clickable but this is actually a less intuitive rhythm than what you probably intended, since you have a melody focus. I recommend a rhythm to follow the melody while keeping the kick clickable. - i'm actually focusing more on the kicks than the melody here
The amount of 1/4 you use makes this feel relatively dense on AR6, so I recommend using AR7 here.
00:17:061 (4) - I think a 1/1 gap would fit the stop in the synth here, so I recommend using a circle here. - there's a wubwub sound i wanted to catch tho
00:27:895 (2,1) - I think a stack would fit really well here to create a stronger lead in to the next section. - stack is ew, so did slider instead
00:33:207 (5,1) - I think you're better off making this a 3/4 reverse since players will likely hear the skipped kick and get really confused, especially while they're interpreting the 3/4. Would also fit your melody focus better I think. - this is a rhythmical error, fixed it in a different way
00:46:020 (1,2) - I recommend using circles here to provide contrast from the verses, since there are less instruments playing here.
01:06:228 (2,3) - 3 is a fairly weak beat and this is a relatively straining pattern, so I recommend using a 1/2 slider here instead.
The main issue with this difficulty is its long note chains. At this BPM you can be more lenient in note chains than normal, but that still only allows about 10 objects connected with 1/2 gaps unless you have stuff like 3/4 repeats in the mix (in which this is more lenient). Most of the difficulty has lots of long chains so break those up with some 3/4 or larger gaps. I pointed out a few that I found particularly problematic.
00:04:978 (1) - The way the end of this slider overlaps itself is misleading for players at this level due to the way it obscures the slider border. I recommend just straightening out the end here.
00:35:395 (1) - Similar to the above, except you're probably better off using a completely different shape.
00:46:020 (1,1) - I recommend using a more straightforward placement here, since the player will likely have issue interpreting the 3/4 gap due to the visual distance between these two sliders and possibly let go of the slider early. Try this.
00:59:561 (4,5) - These circles seem really out of place due to the faint drums they follow, as well as their high intensity, to the point where I think you're better off starting a slider on 00:59:145 - and ending it on 00:59:665 - I think the drums are fairly audible here so I won't apply this
01:18:207 (1) - I recommend using circles here to break up the massive chain of 1/2 you have.
01:29:978 (1) - Skipping the 1/3 here is probably a good idea since right now you have a massive chain of 1/2 and the player will probably misread this with how its placed in the middle of a long beat chain. I recommend using a circle here.
I don't think the spread between this and the normal is good, since the normal has stuff like passive 1/4, and active 1/2, while this difficulty is mapped with strictly enforced 1/1 (occasional 5/4). You'll probably need to go back and incorporate more passive 1/2 into this difficulty.
00:18:728 (2,3,4) - This even visual distance creates a readability issue in that the player may want to click 4 before 3, so I recommend spacing this out a bit more like you did with 00:14:978 (1,2,3) -
00:52:061 (2,3) - I recommend placing this circle more in the path of the slider like this(you'll need to adjust some following objects to preserve DS) since right now the player may let go of 2 early to hit 3 due to the tight placement.
Fixed all not replied to.
- soft-hitnormal4.wav is unused because you're not using the hitnormal anywhere. 01:37:270 - has a S:C4 line, but all the notes there have Drum samplesets on them. So either incorporate this somewhere in the map or remove the file.
- So both drum-hitwhistle as well as soft-hitclap2.wav has some delay you might want to get rid of.
- 00:14:978 (1,2,3,4,1,2) - 00:22:061 (1,2,3,4,1,2) - So it kinda looks like you were trying to have these consistent, but the latter one is one beat ahead of where the former is. Listen to 00:23:520 - and compare it to 00:16:853 - , for instance. Would probably be more consistent if the pauses in rhythm were on the same places in the song, right? In my opinion it'd be cool if the pause was after 00:17:061 - , like it is on 00:23:728 - , but both ways work. Depending on what you choose to emphasize, 00:16:853 - is analogous to the former.
- 00:17:061 (2,3) - are both similar to 00:18:103 (5,1) - in the map, but not in the song (also it feels like a bit too many circles but maybe that's just me). The above would solve that if you'd emphasize the wub drum instead of the vocal, although if the other way around, 00:17:061 - could be turned into a 1/2 slider to solve this instead. But ye depending on what you did on the previous point, 00:30:395 (2,3) - may also be of interest.
- 00:18:311 (1,2,3) - So (1) has NC here but not (4) at 00:24:978 (4,5,6) - ? Similarly comparing 00:20:811 - with 00:34:145 - .
- 00:26:540 - This part could probably be less ambiguous to 00:19:874 - and allow the cymbal to stand out if you did something like this. Alternatively arranging it like this, or simply ending the slider there instead of repeating.
- 00:54:874 (3) - Considering that you usually NC every measure, this could be a new combo to visually emphasize the difference between surrounding sections here. - yes but i feel like the note afterwards deserves the NC more
- 01:31:228 (4,1) - Seems strange to have such a large gap when the beat is still going. Especially when 01:32:061 - is already similar to 01:31:853 - , so could place a circle there.
- 01:48:311 (1,2) - nice ds, tbh I'd have stacked these to indicate a larger time gap. While you're at it you can apply that to 01:46:228 (2,3) - as well for consistency. Current does work, but it might be easier to interpret if it stood out more visually, and wasn't the exact same as other types of time gaps.
This kiai feels so barren density wise in comparison to the song lol, especially with gaps like 01:13:311 (1,2) - 01:14:040 (3,4) - constantly. Not much we can do about that though unless you want to change the density of other stuff to compensate, although wouldn't think it's worth. - acknowledged but I think the more complicated rhythm choices I went for here offset that density drop.
- 00:58:520 (1) - Should probably not have this offscreen.
- 01:23:311 - Compare NCing with 01:16:645 - , might want to make that consistent.
- 01:29:978 (7,1) - Would swap their combos, both of these sound like they're part of the same pattern in the song, after all.
- 01:50:395 (1) - Isn't your combo concept to only place new combos on the 01:44:978 - 01:48:311 - 01:51:645 - sounds like in Normal? Otherwise 01:43:624 (3) - would have an NC as well.
- 01:53:311 - Was expecting the spinner to start from here like in Normal. Makes more sense in my opinion considering the sounds that are heard.
- 00:14:978 (1,2) - 00:28:311 (1,2) - Feels pretty off compared to other similar spots in the map like 00:15:707 (3,4) - 00:17:478 (2,3) - 00:18:207 (1,2) - or in the song like 00:16:228 (1,2) - 00:18:728 (3,4) - 00:19:561 (3,4) - . Replacing these with doubles would fit much better from what I can tell.
- 00:18:207 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - Compare your combos here and 00:31:540 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3) - . 00:33:311 (1) - may be excused by it's different drum structure, but 00:32:374 (5,1) - might want to be made consistent. Or other way around, you do you.
- 00:20:811 (1) - Would say this makes more sense than 00:34:145 (4,5,1) - in terms of NCing. Applies to 00:59:353 (1) - 01:06:020 - as well. damit mir get your ncs right
- 00:38:207 (1,2) - Would have done this like 00:24:561 (2,3,4,5) - or like this instead, in order to bring more contrast to and from 00:33:207 (3,1,2,3) - . - the rhythm is different here cuz a drum intersects the melody so i had to opt for another double, otherwise they'd be the same
- 00:55:603 (3,4,5) - Similarly to above, you could bring more contrast to the kind of concept you've got at 00:56:645 (1,2) - 01:02:686 (2,3,1,2) - etc, if this weren't of similar rhythm and visuals. Could potentially just replace (4) with a circle to solve this.
- 01:31:540 (5,1) - Former seems more distinct, so would've switched ncs.
- 00:37:061 (1) - btw there's an offscreen slider here as well.
To be quite honest with you I don't think what you're "suggesting" is even feasible to the map and the way it's structured. You actually didn't give me any suggestions at all, you just pointed out everything you thought was wrong and left it there. Your "mod" is largely useless to me for that reason. What I think you want me to do is:
Voli wrote:The implementation of the spacing concept on the top diff can use a lot of work imo
General spacing concerns / lack of contrast
I feel like the spacing concept of this map wasn't thought out thoroughly enough. Considering the high-bpm nature of the song, note-to-object jumps should be mapped with a lot of care because they can very easily disrupt the movement in your patterns and generally feel very clunky.
An example of this is just when the map starts out at 00:01:957 (2,1) - . While 00:02:061 (1) - is indeed a high pitched sound and could be emphasized over the rest of the pattern, the angle and immense amount of spacing (for this bpm) just make the pattern feel overspaced in its entirety. What doesn't help is that the player has to make yet another jumpy movement towards 00:02:165 (2) - with a very sharp/harsh angle, while the pitch only lowers here.
Another example would be 00:05:395 (1,2,3,4,5) -. The spacing is the same over the entire pattern making the entire thing feel clunky and lacking in contrast. The sounds in the music aren't properly distinguished because you use the same huge spacing everywhere. Patterns with similar issues include:
- 00:33:728 (1,2,3,4) - spacing is monotonous while the music clearly indicates a different pitch on every note (down>up)
- 00:39:179 - ^
- 00:40:603 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2) - spacing gets larger every time but the actual sound that differentiates from the rest (00:40:811 (3) - ) isn't expressed in any way
- 00:52:686 (1,2,3,4,5) - vs 00:53:936 (3,4) - why do these patterns have the same spacing? Also 00:54:457 (2,3,1) - isn't really a good idea since the player has to make a VERY jerky right/left movement when nothing in the music supports this (as the melodic sound actually fades here)
- 01:42:061 (2,3,4,5) - same issue again, monotonous spacing even though the pitch ups?
- 01:50:082 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - ^
- 01:52:061 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - not only does this completely ignore any spacing concept that would relate to the music before in favor of some wide angled symmetric pattern, the transition to 01:52:895 (1,2,3,4) - also feels super clunky because the song's bpm wasn't taken into account while creating this pattern
- There are a lot of other examples of patterns with similar issues throughout the map.
Another reason I feel the spacing concept wasn't thought through enough is the amount of spacing you use on the ''transitioning'' notes (e.g. 00:01:957 (2) - 00:05:915 (4) - 00:12:582 (5) - ) is consistently high enough that they feel like jumps on their own considering the bpm. Some more extreme examples of this are 00:23:415 (4) - 00:29:249 (5) - 00:49:353 (2) - and a lot of others throughout the latter part of the map. These notes often don't really ''belong'' to any special sound in the music and their general purpose is keeping the rhythm natural and constant. However, the way you placed these combined with the song's bpm makes them stand out in an uncanny way contributing to my problem with the spacing concept.
Lastly, patterns like 00:52:686 (1,2,3,4,5,6) -, 01:16:228 (4,5,6,7) - and, as i said before, 01:52:895 (1,2,3,4) - feel too bluntly executed. The harshness of these angles is immensely contrasting with the slider patterns surrounding them.
tl;dr - I feel you should respect the song's extremely fast nature a lot more when creating patterns with super sharp angles/high spacing. As a result, I deem the difficulty unsatisfactory as of now.
If you wanna discuss, feel free to pm in game too of course.
Thanks for your constructive criticism and generally helpful comments. I'm glad you took the time to write a civilized and respectful "mod" for my map.
Avena wrote:!summon Priti
Priti.exe has not been found
Shitmapper.exe has been downloaded.
This isn't going to be a conventional mod, just a general concern post.
First of all, the extremely generous (And fairly inconsistent) use of new combos + HP6 will just cause the HP Bar to drain super fast and make each miss very painful.
Also, OD9.3 is super harsh for such map, in general the map is overly harsh but we'll talk about that later.
00:45:499 - Lil' forced break by accident, probably because of an offset change.
The way I see this map is just "Let's map normally, but faster!", it looks like your every day map, but it's just much faster, if you'd take this and slow it down by x0.5, You'd just have a normal Insane difficulty. - that's what happens to most alt maps when you slow them down but ok
Which doesn't work, at all.
The thing you need to realize when mapping such dense songs is how hard it can get to constantly click notes while having to aim so precisely.
The map simply starts with pretty calm beats, and you already start using insane spacing, even though the song doesn't call for anything like that.
If the flow was linear/circular, I'd totally get it, it's a way to introduce the map's concepts to the player, but you're using a lot of sharp snap patterns such as 00:01:645 (1,2,1,2) - Which just feel extremely unnatural compared to the relaxed nature of the song on this part.
Then we get to this nice thing 00:06:783 (1,2,3) - It makes sense, but considering this looks like the spacing previously used and how high the OD is, It's nearly impossible to hit full 300s on this, most players will just read this as an off-rhythm 1/4 pattern or just won't be able to understand it.
The use of 1/8 gaps with big jumps like 00:16:853 (1,2) - causes very awkward snapping and really unfun movement. It becomes even more weird when there is nothing supporting such strange placement in the song like 00:18:520 (2) -
Some of your patterns just don't feel like they even try to make sense, and the placement is completely random, for example this pattern 00:35:325 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1) - Just doesn't seem to follow anything, not to mention that spamming NCs like that makes it really weird for players to pass, and can cause a sightread player to instantly fail the map. If you actually want to make this reasonable, you can use spacing that follows a certain logic and seperate the combos to combos of 3s to indicate the usage of 1/3
Fine I adjusted all of these. The 1/3 part is supposed to look random cuz the song sort of breaks down there so I wanted the map to as well. Hopefully the reverse gives enough of an idea that it's 1/3. I removed all the unreasonable 1/8's and reduced spacing on the ones I wanted to keep and nerfed some of the sharper earlier patterns even more than before.
And then we get to the kiai, and oh boy, the kiai.
The use of back and forth 1/4 patterns is just
The whole difficulty feels unnatural and awkward anyways, by implementing those patterns you just emphasize on the fact that you don't want your players to have fun. - I really don't think they make it.. "unfun" since I've never gotten a single complaint from people who can actually play this map that any part of it was awkward or unfun. The usage of back and forth 1/4's if you even bothered to read the post on the previous page which it doesn't seem you did you just came here to rant about the map, is because the whole kiai is already flowy and comfortable, so using the back and forth 1/4s is a method of contrast to that in order to bring out the intense spike of the song in those respective areas.
I get it, the song is intense, but the sounds aren't abnormal or inconsistent, they are pretty much a linear intense row of 1/4s.
So why not map them in a linear way, like the song implies?
The player has so much to worry about in this difficulty, from irregular beats, 1/6 bursts and generally intense gameplay, you now force them to have yet another concern, and that's snapping in patterns that don't feel good to play at all and don't actually follow any sort of structure or legitimate flow.
Yet another "unfun" thing that happens, is this pattern 01:32:061 (3,4) - It kicks extremely fast, and then you are forced to make a movement opposite to what the slider leniency implies, which causes in a seemingly random, super fast and unnatural snap movement. - I adjusted this.
I'm sorry, but this is far from a fun map, it uses tons of interesting concepts (Most of them are taken from Shiirn's version) but you just cluttered a crazy amount of gameplay elements which don't compliment each other into this single 116 second mess.
Smokeman wrote:short cancer mod before you rank this (might be too late)
01:38:728 (1,2) - you can make them overlap better just like 01:37:478 (1,2,1,2) - ot literaly any other slider you did in the map
01:48:311 (1,2,3) - This stacking concept looks out of place imo. Have 01:49:353 (3) - be stacked under 01:48:728 (2) - not 01:48:311 (1) - (do you feel the stack?). Tbh just recheck the stacking on the slider-ends of most sliders. There is a method to get them stacking even after loding up the map (or atleast better than how it is now oof) - there's that sharp cut-off piano that's why there's a stack but fixed the incorrect stack
01:52:895 (1,2,3,4) - "Just gonna grab this one out random". You do focus to represent different sounds in the song in different and unique ways in context of the map (see: 00:16:853 (1,1) - or 00:19:040 (1) - ). But here you expect a simple back and forth to do the trick. You have strong beats on 01:52:895 (1,2,4) - and a weak one 01:53:103 (3) - tho the spacing doesnt indicate that. Since this such a fast song players will most likely not even feel the "slight" difference in spacing you put there hence why i recommend to you to make it more noticable... is not 01:21:228 (2,3,4,5,1) - all over again. 288BPMm is pretty fast oke? https://puu.sh/xyiMh/31e7cfbdf0.png - adjusted all of this already
01:32:478 (1,2,3,4,1) - The spacing on this feels totally out of place in regard to 01:22:895 (4,5,6,7) - and how these were mapped in this manner on really distinct sounds. You have some kinda of scracth going on here so maybe sum sliders would fit it better cause sircles are harsher to hit than circles :s - also adjusted already
00:01:957 (2) - Why not put this here https://puu.sh/xyhAN/bc6ece2213.png so its less cancer to play from the start ?
00:27:061 (1,2,3) - this is 1/6th. You could put sliders if you are scared of the 1/6th. Oke i thought you were following the piano thingy cause you put a note on 00:26:853 (3) - . If you follow the piano melody then please follow the piano melody dont just switch to drums cause you scared of 1/6th cause there are some drums here aswell 00:26:645 - so alkcöasdlkv. :[ - i wanted drums here though, i follow piano everywhere else
01:21:853 (2) - this is really pedantic: https://puu.sh/xyibo/3178ef9dcd.png. 01:21:645 (1,2) - having as it is right now would imply some continuity with the sounds in the song from slider 1 to 2, BUT 01:21:645 (1) - is more of a buil-up for the climatic 01:21:853 (2) - instead. The mapping just doesnt reflect the sounds int he music very well and i am not gonna hammer this on every occurance cause w/e. - i don't get what you're talking about here, these are not supposed to be build up sliders to 2, but to 01:22:061 (3) - instead which i feel they accomplish?
01:29:561 (1,2) - these and 01:30:117 (3,4) - these shouldnt be on similar visual spacings. Make them more distinct cause this is a pretty heavy change from the usualy shenanigans the song does
01:37:061 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - This shoudl totally be decreasing in spacing/speed just like the song does on all its layers xd
01:38:728 (1,2) - Make this shape flater than 01:37:478 (1) - 01:38:415 (2) - cause 01:37:478 (1,2,1,2) - is following this wierd vocal line and the other one is the piano. Both flow into eachother nicely in the song but they still sound distinctivly different
01:45:707 (1,2,3,4) - you cheaky Bir running out of space. 01:46:020 (4) - Is slightly off screen and imo you should have this not directly in the corner. https://puu.sh/xyiGz/defd5b4049.png Tbh should've noticed when the slider end node/anchor was off the grid aswell xd
01:25:395 (1,1) - woudl really ctr+g these. The buildup sounds like it comes from one place and doesnt go up and down :S - i guess
Waanted to keep this short but i ended up just posting down thing i found bothering on a sightread and some time in the editor.
IMO The difficulty of mapping this song is in being able to represent all the different kind of sounds in a proper manner. After that you can think about visual consistency and all that jazz.
BG in 2k17 https://osu.ppy.sh/b/797681 lul
Edit: uhm didnt see this getting popped... so i might drop a full check when i am not sleepy and you want me to :S
Thanks you two.
00:39:770 (1,2,1) - not being mapped like 00:40:603 (1,2,3) - even if the music hasnt changed at all triggers me - the music does change, you have a transition in ambience to the latter 1,2,3 and the former is preceded by 00:39:770 (1) - which is a longer held out sound, the volume here is also quite low so the spacing is a lot lower here too
01:14:249 (1) - idk why you mapped this with a slider. pitch gets higher gradually so using circles and gradually increase spacing as the pitch does makes more sense to me - to set up the reversing motion that the back and forths will use and to provide leniency when going into them, the pitch also spikes on the circles not the reverse slider so i created a rhythm difference to show that
01:37:478 (1) - higher sv for every nc'd slider of this section would be cool ya - ehh i didn't do it before so i don't think it's necessary to do it here now
01:52:790 (4) - move it to x330y113 lol - adjusted before
IMO The difficulty of mapping this song is in being able to represent all the different kind of sounds in a proper manner.Doing this is impractical because of the BPM so I had to generalize my emphasis for the most part and where I did do it specifically eg kiais it's at very intense moments. If there are ways to represent the sounds in a way that wouldn't impact the pacing/flow/playability of the map in a negative way that lines up with how I vision it then please do provide some suggestions. I am always open to suggestions.