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Ocelot - KAEDE

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Total Posts
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fanzhen0019
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
1,723 posts
Joined July 2010
fanzhen0019
+all fixed
Hollow Wings
1,514 posts
Joined July 2010
Topic Starter
Hollow Wings
moecho's reply:

Lasse wrote:


make sure all of these are actually used somewhere or delete them
fixed

[]
@moecho: don't give me the stupid "get good" argument, thanks.
that's an easy way to get people to just walk away from your map, which I would've done if it wasn't just a gd that I don't really care about
the point wasn't the patterns being too difficulty (they are fine) but being too difficult for this part in perspective of the whole map
I have put specific hitsounds on the specific objects that I mean to emphasize, which is same concept as hitsounding a note with a strong hitsound, which also adds an emphasis to the object itself. and I think this is enough to emphasize what I had in mind for this section and map as whole.
just to mention, the jumps are also an introduction for whats to come in the kiai, which also include jumping with 1/4 time between notes, and those are actually a lot trickier to get since the rhythm is a lot more complicated and more tense on movement. of course "get good" isn't an effective method of telling you why the jumps are placed as they are, but that's also why I replied with a long text reply.

as I wrote, while trying not to be aggressive in any kind of way, I rather feel like you have not taken your time to read all of it. the jumps are a part of the mapping concept of the map. to be "too difficult" is a subjective thing here while it may not be the case for players it was intended to be its main crowd. why would we not start questioning why some maps are so easily read and are "pp-rewarding" while some with the same star rating is very abstract? they are just designed with a specific player type in mind, rather it being a play style thing or rank thing or what you could think of.

another thing, as a mapper's perspective towards a modder, the thing you are addressing now feels rather forced and not in respect for a mapper's intent for the map. you can say it's difficult for you but you should never say it must be changed, since it might just not be suiting for your skill sets as a player. just like some there are maps that are designed for alternating, or any other play style. some people simply are better at handling stream jumps, while some players for various reasons has it difficult for stream jumping, but that shouldn't be the reason to limit or force a mapper to change the content of the map into a player's intent and discard the initial intention.

a mapper will change when he/she thinks that what's being addressed is an improvement or better alternative for the mapping idea/intent.
I hope this will clear up why I decide to keep them. but if this is not enough to understand, then the way of modding might not be on the right track, it's not supposed to change mapper's intention but it should improve the way to express it.

it's better now due to ar 9.3 but some of them still feel a bit nonsensical to me
like 00:37:317 (4,5,1) - 00:41:385 (1,2,1) - is bascially the same thing but one is way more difficult, you don't need 1/4 jumps here for "emphasis", the last note of a triple inherently stands out the most anyway??

also comparing the difficulty to the 1/16 repeats is absurd, they are actually really easy to fc since the sv doesn't require you to move away from the head (unlike on top diff)
they are also in a way more intense part, where higher difficulty makes sense
honestly for me as a player, I find the 1/16 on 00:53:758 (1,1) - a lot harder to keep the combo than the stream jump you mentioned, but as I said, I wouldn't tell a mapper to change just because of that. I have your view of emphasis in mind, but I also have my own perspective on emphasis here, which should not be too unreasonable or hard to understand



the nc spam still makes no sense to me, how are nc supposed to help read sv changes, even more so if you have them on basically every object anways and also spam nc things without sv changes like 01:03:927 (1,1,1) - ...
the sv changes in the kiai all seemed intuitive to read anyway, if anything nc spam makes it harder since it feels way more "chaotic"
you bring the "skill" argument to keep the 1/4 jump things, but then use basically the opposite argument for these things...

tbh I don't care much about the nc things, it's just that your argumentation doesn't make much sense but whatever
have improved the addressed new combo issue across the kiai and adjusted some for outside kiai as well, should be acceptable now

also fix your tags https://i.imgur.com/bY0Dshw.jpg
downloaded the newest EX EX diff's .osu file and copy pasted, now it should be fine



02:23:249 - storyboarded audio in this part is still ??? since it gets to a point where you basically have a different song than all other diffs...
it's been overwritten with proper hitsounding now, but I think the outcome is basically the same here, since with hitsounding, it would still be different, the only difference is that the player can affect when the sounds will play or perhaps miss it entirely, creativity should not limit to object placement and patterning, but also hitsounding

I have made sure there are no more extra hitsounds (on my end)and no delay, there will be false positives from modding assistance but checking through them with audacity shows that there is no delay larger than 5ms
[]

other things look fine now
thank you for modding Lasse
Lasse
Beatmap Nominator
3,596 posts
Joined June 2011
Lasse
looks fine now


@moecho:
the additive hs were not the issue, but storyboarding them, having them on the actual objects makes much more sense, it's much better now
salchow
508 posts
Joined February 2017
salchow
!
UndeadCapulet
1,100 posts
Joined April 2013
UndeadCapulet
bubblun wanted me to wait for his mod but he's taking too long so here's check:
general
soft-hitclap84 should prob be cut down a bit: https://i.imgur.com/BfEFHhI.jpg
lasse says maybe cut some stuff from the start of soft-hitfinish2 and 3 as well: https://i.imgur.com/kxyPBil.jpg

exex
catching the drumbeats at 00:59:097 - , 01:01:809 - , etc. by changing 01:01:724 (4) - in a 1/4 slider or smth might be a nice touch
this sort of thing would also be nice for showing off the different drumbeats in the second chorus, catching 02:41:809 - with a circle/slidertail would feel pretty good idk

i know you're prob gonna deny that bc it ruins the 1/8sliderstuffs but at least i showed i looked at the diff now /shrug

yuki
02:35:114 - 02:40:538 - missing claps

insane
00:34:775 (1) - having a stronger directionchange might be nice to show off the downbeat/finish: https://puu.sh/zmdxn/d22735a892.png
dont rly get why only 00:57:487 (2) - and 01:05:622 (2) - are arranged so much further from the previous sliderheads when all the other circles in this section are spaced like 01:08:334 (2) -
truest exploration of reverse arrows
call me back
Hollow Delta
793 posts
Joined March 2015
Hollow Delta
dammit uc

EXEX
  1. 01:23:250 (3) - Unsnapped note that went unnoticed in aimod. There could be more of these, so I'd resnap all the notes to be safe https://puu.sh/zmfxU/b75ba865b2.jpg If you use that function make sure you keep the snapping at 1/8 or else your notes are gonna stack on each other in the timeline.
  2. 00:58:673 (2,3,4) - I feel this part would give better feedback if there were soft whistles on the heads, as they're mapped to the same sound as 00:59:012 (4) - which has hitsound, which in turn makes 2 and 3 feel quieter.
  3. 01:18:843 (1) - I feel like these sliders could be move or adjusted in a way that's more intuitive, as the length doesn't really allow the player to play these as buzz sliders. If I could show you what I mean, https://puu.sh/zmfND/a592cc4b87.png I feel naturally we're more inclined to click as close to the center of the circle as possible, as that's what we've been taught to do as we play the map. I feel like if you arrange the notes in a way that would encourage players to click within the follow circle, there's less of a chance of a slider break https://puu.sh/zmg6L/decedb3670.png
  4. 02:39:013 (2,3,4) - I feel like 4 having such a contrast in spacing from 2 and 3 would be awkward to play, as they feel like they're mapped to the same sound, so they share similar spacing to compliment that. Like at 02:36:301 (2,3,4) - 02:41:724 (2,3,4) - I think the same would apply at 02:47:487 (4) -
Kalindraz's EX
  1. 01:50:199 (4) - It feels like a whistle is missing here, as this was hitsounded in the other diffs and sounds similar to 01:49:860 (1,2,3) -
fanzhen
  1. I feel like HP could be decreased to 5-6 as NCs typically are used every downbeat, sometimes every 1/2 beat, so higher HP than the conventional 6 when NC usage is more extreme I feel could be punishing to play.

UC said he wanted to icon, so gl with rank everyone.
Irreversible
osu! Alumni
4,315 posts
Joined December 2011
Irreversible
fanzhen, just a really small suggestion:

02:36:131 (1,2) -
02:46:978 (1,2) -

I've really loved playing your diff after the new hitsounds, everything felt really intuitive and all, except those two - they kinda really catch me offguard everytime and I think the problem is that 02:36:385 (2) - ends on a white tick which happens to be really strong? How about replacing 02:36:385 (2) - and 02:47:233 (2) -
by 2 circles, so people can click both sounds (which are kinda equally strong), I think that'd feel more natural.
Bastionior
560 posts
Joined January 2013
Bastionior

Bubblun wrote:

dammit uc


Kalindraz's EX
  1. 01:50:199 (4) - It feels like a whistle is missing here, as this was hitsounded in the other diffs and sounds similar to 01:49:860 (1,2,3) - yeah u right, fixed
sorry for that miss or any mistake /><\ i rechecked, everything its fine now!


so gl with rank everyone.
Thanks Bubblun!
Thanks Everyone! Update!
osu file format v14

[General]
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AudioLeadIn: 0
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Countdown: 0
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BeatDivisor: 8
GridSize: 4
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[Metadata]
Title:KAEDE
TitleUnicode:KAEDE
Artist:Ocelot
ArtistUnicode:Ocelot
Creator:Hollow Wings
Version:Kalindraz's EX
Source:
Tags:japan diverse system dubstep Hatsune Miku DJ Ginsuke Ocelot SiSTEMA Function Phantom Thinktech fanzhen0019 Kalindraz Kawashiro Moecho Koiyuki Minakami Yuki mtbbsben Skystar Amamiya Yuko Irreversible
BeatmapID:1404975
BeatmapSetID:660630

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Hollow Wings
1,514 posts
Joined July 2010
Topic Starter
Hollow Wings

UndeadCapulet wrote:

bubblun wanted me to wait for his mod but he's taking too long so here's check: oh what lol... btw im surprised that you are a bn as well w
general
soft-hitclap84 should prob be cut down a bit: https://i.imgur.com/BfEFHhI.jpg
lasse says maybe cut some stuff from the start of soft-hitfinish2 and 3 as well: https://i.imgur.com/kxyPBil.jpg all fixed.

exex
catching the drumbeats at 00:59:097 - , 01:01:809 - , etc. by changing 01:01:724 (4) - in a 1/4 slider or smth might be a nice touch
this sort of thing would also be nice for showing off the different drumbeats in the second chorus, catching 02:41:809 - with a circle/slidertail would feel pretty good idk the reason i put 1/8 sliders instead is like the kiai part is filled with all those 1/16 sliders expressing those noisy crazy beats, and if we met some obvious sounds like 01:01:216 (1,2,3,4) - which can be clearly heard among them, i think it can be expressed in another way, which is emphasizing them with tap objects like what i've did. the useage of 1/4 or 1/8 slider already did their job in non-kiai part to be a intro of 1/16 ones in kiai, so let other sounds be ordinary can be a better choise imo.

i know you're prob gonna deny that bc it ruins the 1/8sliderstuffs but at least i showed i looked at the diff now /shrug

yuki
02:35:114 - 02:40:538 - missing claps fixed.

insane
00:34:775 (1) - having a stronger directionchange might be nice to show off the downbeat/finish: https://puu.sh/zmdxn/d22735a892.png sure but changed to another style aside yours.
dont rly get why only 00:57:487 (2) - and 01:05:622 (2) - are arranged so much further from the previous sliderheads when all the other circles in this section are spaced like 01:08:334 (2) - generally because previous kiais of the song are not that noisy as the later ones (lack of drum track beats), so those wub sounds really clear and loud. then previous two kiais of those four in previoius part are more quiet, which you can easily know they are composed in different way in the song. because of those, these two jumps at the begeinning of kiais have larger jumps than other ones, and they are like the most difficult part of those kiais, differed from other kiais' difficulties. the concept of my map is usually like "change", not forcing people focus on absolute things - when you have all 5.0x jumps together, you can hardly call they are real big jumps, however, when you put a 2.0x jump in 0.5x jumps, it gives much more "big jump here" feeling to the players - like that.
truest exploration of reverse arrows
call me back

Bubblun wrote:

dammit uc haha... xp

EXEX
  1. 01:23:250 (3) - Unsnapped note that went unnoticed in aimod. There could be more of these, so I'd resnap all the notes to be safe https://puu.sh/zmfxU/b75ba865b2.jpg If you use that function make sure you keep the snapping at 1/8 or else your notes are gonna stack on each other in the timeline. fixed.
  2. 00:58:673 (2,3,4) - I feel this part would give better feedback if there were soft whistles on the heads, as they're mapped to the same sound as 00:59:012 (4) - which has hitsound, which in turn makes 2 and 3 feel quieter. the hitsound is completely snapped to the drum track and i don't want to change it any longer. the objects' hitsounds here sound quiet but when players are playing the map, they always focus on the main melody track more than other ones. on the other hand, wub sounds won't effect much feedback to the player, and these objects are even sliders. so in order to keep the hs system, i choose keep the current setting.
  3. 01:18:843 (1) - I feel like these sliders could be move or adjusted in a way that's more intuitive, as the length doesn't really allow the player to play these as buzz sliders. If I could show you what I mean, https://puu.sh/zmfND/a592cc4b87.png I feel naturally we're more inclined to click as close to the center of the circle as possible, as that's what we've been taught to do as we play the map. I feel like if you arrange the notes in a way that would encourage players to click within the follow circle, there's less of a chance of a slider break https://puu.sh/zmg6L/decedb3670.png i know what you are meaning but that's like one of spirits of the map. 1/4 jumps among buzz sliders even with slider shapes like these 03:07:317 (1,2,1) - which i've done on purpose. the previous kiai parts are like a general intro to the later one which is even more difficult. what if i make those bent ones easier to play? i think the later patterns will be too sudden to others through the previous part. here's another usual thing i always do: when i wanna lay a really difficult pattern, i'll give some similar and easier ones in non-kiai or quiet part as a consistent intro. so, here i choose to keep the current style as well.
  4. 02:39:013 (2,3,4) - I feel like 4 having such a contrast in spacing from 2 and 3 would be awkward to play, as they feel like they're mapped to the same sound, so they share similar spacing to compliment that. Like at 02:36:301 (2,3,4) - 02:41:724 (2,3,4) - I think the same would apply at 02:47:487 (4) - here's simply a trick with structure pattern, see if you can copy slider 3 to note 1's position and i think you will get it.
UC said he wanted to icon, so gl with rank everyone.
too much surprise lol~

thanks for modding!

edit: have fanzhen's premission to check his diff's mods

Bubblun wrote:

fanzhen
  1. I feel like HP could be decreased to 5-6 as NCs typically are used every downbeat, sometimes every 1/2 beat, so higher HP than the conventional 6 when NC usage is more extreme I feel could be punishing to play. fanzhen's diff is actually really easy, hp should be fine.

Irreversible wrote:

fanzhen, just a really small suggestion:

02:36:131 (1,2) -
02:46:978 (1,2) -

I've really loved playing your diff after the new hitsounds, everything felt really intuitive and all, except those two - they kinda really catch me offguard everytime and I think the problem is that 02:36:385 (2) - ends on a white tick which happens to be really strong? How about replacing 02:36:385 (2) - and 02:47:233 (2) - i think this is acceptable, changed.
by 2 circles, so people can click both sounds (which are kinda equally strong), I think that'd feel more natural.
UndeadCapulet
1,100 posts
Joined April 2013
UndeadCapulet
ily
Bepis
19 posts
Joined April 2014
Bepis
very nice map owo
Lasse
Beatmap Nominator
3,596 posts
Joined June 2011
Lasse
soft-hitfinish2.wav and soft-hitfinish3.wav are too short now
they need to be over 100ms so add like 30ms of silence to the end of both of them

should be fine to qualify tomorrow
Hollow Wings
1,514 posts
Joined July 2010
Topic Starter
Hollow Wings

Lasse wrote:

soft-hitfinish2.wav and soft-hitfinish3.wav are too short now
they need to be over 100ms so add like 30ms of silence to the end of both of them fixed.

should be fine to qualify tomorrow
Lasse
Beatmap Nominator
3,596 posts
Joined June 2011
Lasse
have fun sliderbreaking
[Mahua]
702 posts
Joined November 2010
[Mahua]
好
Shima Rin
1,304 posts
Joined March 2015
Shima Rin
Congratz!
Weber
1,254 posts
Joined May 2015
Weber
LMFAOOOOOOOOOOO
Divine Cake
114 posts
Joined November 2013
Divine Cake
congratulations on breaking ctb :^)

Skystar
1,628 posts
Joined May 2011
Skystar
I slept through the party

one told me it just happened

I jumped over the bed


grats!!
plsleaf
30 posts
Joined April 2014
plsleaf
Gratz!
Rizia
3,114 posts
Joined January 2012
Rizia

Skystar wrote:

I slept through the party

one told me it just happened

I jumped over the bed


grats!!
-Visceral-
644 posts
Joined August 2012
-Visceral-
01:21:957 (2) - Is this snapped right? I think u might have an error :(

Hardest diff btw

jk editor bug
Silomare
96 posts
Joined October 2013
Silomare
Congratulations on qualify, such a great map!
leo16834
471 posts
Joined August 2011
leo16834
神圖無誤

恭喜RK~
fastmarkus
30 posts
Joined December 2015
fastmarkus
congratz, HW! amazing mapset :D
-Visceral-
644 posts
Joined August 2012
-Visceral-
Actually wait 03:16:131 (1) is snapped to 1/16 in EX EX fucj

EDIT: I feel like this issue was hard to detect mainly because of the hitsound volume. I understand that you probably did quieter hitsounds because of the buzz sliders, so maybe have 2 samples or something? I only realized the slider i linked after watching it in ctb with different hitsounds and hearing a delay
Last edited by -Visceral- , edited 1 time in total.
Raiden
osu! Alumni
2,419 posts
Joined January 2013
Raiden
sneaky 1/16
UndeadCapulet
1,100 posts
Joined April 2013
UndeadCapulet
technical difficulties
we'll be back soon
Nao Tomori
Nomination Assessment Team
3,089 posts
Joined December 2014
Nao Tomori
it was hard to detect cuz when u MA it u have to set it to 1/16th cuz theres a ton of 1/16th intended snaps lol
-Visceral-
644 posts
Joined August 2012
-Visceral-

Naotoshi wrote:

it was hard to detect cuz when u MA it u have to set it to 1/16th cuz theres a ton of 1/16th intended snaps lol
idk honestly with clearer hitsounds it was extremely easy to hear when watching the map tbh
Hollow Wings
1,514 posts
Joined July 2010
Topic Starter
Hollow Wings

Theaceae wrote:

Actually wait 03:16:131 (1) is snapped to 1/16 in EX EX fucj sorry for this stupid mistake, fixed.

EDIT: I feel like this issue was hard to detect mainly because of the hitsound volume. I understand that you probably did quieter hitsounds because of the buzz sliders, so maybe have 2 samples or something? I only realized the slider i linked after watching it in ctb with different hitsounds and hearing a delay
[Mahua]
702 posts
Joined November 2010
[Mahua]
老哥怎么死于bug
UndeadCapulet
1,100 posts
Joined April 2013
UndeadCapulet
this time i looked at the map!
Kawashiro
1,522 posts
Joined April 2012
Kawashiro
again
Nao Tomori
Nomination Assessment Team
3,089 posts
Joined December 2014
Nao Tomori
change kawa's diff to Kawa's EX ..
Kawashiro
1,522 posts
Joined April 2012
Kawashiro

Naotoshi wrote:

change kawa's diff to Kawa's EX ..
Stop to break my diff's originality

I'd talk about this with her. She said my diff is too easy to get this name. Actually only me did typical, simple and easy things bcuz of her request so I can accept "Extra" diffname lol
fieryrage
osu! Champion / Elite Nominator II
1,402 posts
Joined November 2013
fieryrage
03:27:487 (1) - why is this like 0% volume on moechos xd
Hollow Wings
1,514 posts
Joined July 2010
Topic Starter
Hollow Wings

fieryrage wrote:

03:27:487 (1) - why is this like 0% volume on moechos xd check 00:12:233 (1) - in case of you missed it and come up with that in a sudden at later part. and that's because she do not want to emphasis those addtional taiko beats stronger than common drum track, so that volume setting shall be in that low level.
2zz
334 posts
Joined April 2016
2zz

kyk ex


02:28:504 (3,4,1) - and 03:15:453 (2,3,4) - broken stacks
nokd
Hollow Wings
1,514 posts
Joined July 2010
Topic Starter
Hollow Wings

2zz wrote:

kyk ex


02:28:504 (3,4,1) - and 03:15:453 (2,3,4) - broken stacks this is an editor bug which happened when you save the progress of your map and then some objects will be moved a bit. that will countinue happening however you fix things like this, so just ignore those nazi issues, it won't effect the map itself really much.
nokd
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