Idk. I agree on HR, since that's accuracy, and accuracy in a rhythm game is kinda important. But DT? nah, I'd rather see people clear complex rhythm pattern stuff than fast fingersWishy22 wrote:
Because a player who can play OD + AR 10 accurately or do ultra high BPM maps correctly is way better than one that can't?CXu wrote:
Why must all top tier players be able to do DT and HR
Oh anyway, my list for now:
kriers \o\
Niko /o/
CracK \hi/
http://www.kongregate.com/games/Wolfups ... -you-click also with keyboard keys = osuCXu wrote:
But isn't this a rhythm game, not a tap as fast as you can game? D:
Following the rhythm of a complicated 270 BPM song is harder than following a complicated 180 BPM, so yeah. At least I guess it's harder, if it's not I wonder why every song has a top 40 with 40 DTs.CXu wrote:
But isn't this a rhythm game, not a tap as fast as you can game? D:
the important thing is thatCXu wrote:
I didn't say it's easy though. DT just kills the song and game for me most of the times. Oh well, off-topic~
But I'm not cuz I can't DT \:D/KRZY wrote:
the important thing is thatCXu wrote:
I didn't say it's easy though. DT just kills the song and game for me most of the times. Oh well, off-topic~
u good bro
Even when you're a great player I think you can't really be compared to some of those sick guys doing insane DTs like Torein 13rd for example. I said top tier, you can be a pro playing imba HRs, but when it comes to the best, if you can't do DTs they can then you're not as good as them imo. You can't really be a top tier player if you can't handle every mod I think.CXu wrote:
But I'm not cuz I can't DT \:D/
You sure can compete with them even if you can't DT. People just doesn't like to recognize FL scores. Oh and there are always those maps no-one DT's because no-one can where you can compete. Well in general, I just don't think DT makes you top-tier player or whatever. I consider taNa and ShaggoN to be... well, awesome. Yes, maybe Cookiezi could DT a map taNa SS'd, but who would use the least tries to SS the map nomod? My bet is taNa or ShaggoN above Cookiezi. Should a rhythm game be based on the speed a person can hit stuff or the accuracy they hit it?Wishy22 wrote:
I'm not saying you can't be good, I'm saying you can't be a top tier player since even when you can HR or get good acc, if you can't play ultra high BPM then you can't really compete against players that can, that's how it works, and that's why the best players overall are those like White Wolf, SiLviA, Rucker, Cookiezi, etc, and some other guys that can do pretty much every mod.
I'm pretty sure cookiezi and silvia can SS maps in less tries than tana or shaggon.CXu wrote:
You sure can compete with them even if you can't DT. People just doesn't like to recognize FL scores. Oh and there are always those maps no-one DT's because no-one can where you can compete. Well in general, I just don't think DT makes you top-tier player or whatever. I consider taNa and ShaggoN to be... well, awesome. Yes, maybe Cookiezi could DT a map taNa SS'd, but who would use the least tries to SS the map nomod? My bet is taNa or ShaggoN above Cookiezi. Should a rhythm game be based on the speed a person can hit stuff or the accuracy they hit it?Wishy22 wrote:
I'm not saying you can't be good, I'm saying you can't be a top tier player since even when you can HR or get good acc, if you can't play ultra high BPM then you can't really compete against players that can, that's how it works, and that's why the best players overall are those like White Wolf, SiLviA, Rucker, Cookiezi, etc, and some other guys that can do pretty much every mod.
No idea if that came out right, but anyhow, I think a high-accuracy player could be just as much a top-tier player as one of those you mentioned.
Now lemme go add Reisen Udongein to my list.
Now, is it useless? I like to think that having a high acc is kinda, well... important for a rhythm based game, and 100% SS is more impressive than 95% SH. Ranked score isn't everything (Which applies in this example I guess). Any song you can DT FC, you can probably SS, yes, but does that mean your accuracy is as good as the guy who always plays for SS'ing? Idk, many people tend to get a lot of 100's on slower maps (maybe because they're "bored" or whatnot).Wishy22 wrote:
Cxu, please, taNa and Shaggon have some epic SS because they go and drill them to death even if it's useless because 95% SH is worth more than that. Do you really think players like SiLviA would need to drill them like that when they can go do them with more mods over 99% like it's nothing?
If this top-tier player didn't even try and happened to get an almost SS on some hard song, then kudos to him/her. Are you then certain that if he tried a bit harder, that first play would've been an SS? It's not just "luck" or what you want to call it, but also how consistent you can be with your accuracy. I, for one, tend to get 1~3x100 even if I try to put my mind into SS'ing a map, even when I do it randomly some other time. Oh yeah, why bother. Well, Take me for example: I like to play slowmaps without using DT even if I know I can, because I like to play songs without some shitty speed up. I did say some stuff about slowmaps above, and it could be harder for some people to SS it nomod than with DT.Wishy22 wrote:
BTW, an example I saw live: http://osu.ppy.sh/b/19558, it was his first try and he got 1x100, and if you start looking around you gonna find tons of stuff that many people see and say "wow pro SS", while other top tier players just got an "almost SS" in their first play because they didn't even try... because as qilliam said, if you can get good acc with HR or DT, why bother doing SS no mod lol.
I hear a lot of players complaining about OD7 and lower is unreadable so yeah idk. You don't have to like milk to like cocoa milk (well bad example but whatever)Wishy22 wrote:
And no, the best players actually have not only the greatest speed but the greatest accuracy too, the fact they don't even bother wasting time getting a nomod SS doesn't mean they can't. You can go watch any of those great players that can play any mod playing nomod and you gonna see how getting a "hard" SS is like a child's game for them. I know Cookiezi is an extreme example, but he pretty much uses Shinsekai as a warm up and fun fact is that he can get an SS like it's nothing, SiLviA, WW or Rucker sometimes are just rank whoring and go getting every SS in a first try like it's nothing, because it is nothing for you if you are used to play OD 10 or ridiculously high BPM maps.
(Again, being able to play every mod makes you a top tier player imo, if you can't do DT then you are really way below some specific players, doesn't mean you can't be good but it does mean you are worse than some other players).
I love you.CXu wrote:
Awesome pile of opinions that matches with my opinions
Emaal wrote:
guiz. dis waz a undewated pwauers. not a diskuzzion. pwease stop dis.
I'm a player with horrible accuracy and I suck at streams, and whenever I easily FC a DT it usually means I can SS in no time playing nomod, and I'm way worse than any really good player.CXu wrote:
Now, is it useless? I like to think that having a high acc is kinda, well... important for a rhythm based game, and 100% SS is more impressive than 95% SH. Ranked score isn't everything (Which applies in this example I guess). Any song you can DT FC, you can probably SS, yes, but does that mean your accuracy is as good as the guy who always plays for SS'ing? Idk, many people tend to get a lot of 100's on slower maps (maybe because they're "bored" or whatnot).
Now, I'm not saying SiLviA or Cookiezi can't and trying to prove that. Just saying that being able to DT FC the song doesn't neccesarily mean you'd easily SS the same song on 1 or 2 tries. (You could try, maybe it applies for you, maybe it doesn't. For me it certainly doesn't)
Oh and just because someone SS'd a song doesn't mean they drilled that song to death...
If you can get 1x100 in a song you never ever played before in your first try, I'm pretty sure that you can easily SS it, at least using myself as an example, if I play something and get really a few 100 in the first try, it's really likely I can SS, and it's also likely I can add mods and get a worse acc than before but a better score. Even when I get your point, unless you were extremely lucky and got some acc you will never get again (is that even possible), being able to almost SS in the first try usually means it's not a big deal for you to get the SS.CXu wrote:
If this top-tier player didn't even try and happened to get an almost SS on some hard song, then kudos to him/her. Are you then certain that if he tried a bit harder, that first play would've been an SS? It's not just "luck" or what you want to call it, but also how consistent you can be with your accuracy. I, for one, tend to get 1~3x100 even if I try to put my mind into SS'ing a map, even when I do it randomly some other time. Oh yeah, why bother. Well, Take me for example: I like to play slowmaps without using DT even if I know I can, because I like to play songs without some shitty speed up. I did say some stuff about slowmaps above, and it could be harder for some people to SS it nomod than with DT.
The fact that there are almost no maps with AR 7 (or less) and a circle size which doesn't allow you to HR it makes that skill pretty useless. Even when you're right, AR 7 is unplayable when applied in specific situations, many players will even tell you that AR 9 is unplayable on some maps (like in that BD map Rainbow Dash, got many people saying the map was way easier to read with AR 10 than 9). This AR stuff just depends on how the map is and what AR it should have.CXu wrote:
I hear a lot of players complaining about OD7 and lower is unreadable so yeah idk. You don't have to like milk to like cocoa milk (well bad example but whatever)
In the end it's just my opinion on this (like dnextgen said), and as you probably see, it's also how I personally see this top tier thing. Don't get me wrong, thsoe guys you mentioned are surely top-tier players, I just don't think you HAVE to be good at DT to be one, because in the end, I just think a rhythm game should be more based on accuracy than finger speed, which would mean a DT lowacc player shouldn't go higher than a nomod SS player. If you're good a both, then suer, why not be considered a top-tier player lol.
Wishy22 wrote:
I'm a player with horrible accuracy and I suck at streams, and whenever I easily FC a DT it usually means I can SS in no time playing nomod, and I'm way worse than any really good player.CXu wrote:
Now, is it useless? I like to think that having a high acc is kinda, well... important for a rhythm based game, and 100% SS is more impressive than 95% SH. Ranked score isn't everything (Which applies in this example I guess). Any song you can DT FC, you can probably SS, yes, but does that mean your accuracy is as good as the guy who always plays for SS'ing? Idk, many people tend to get a lot of 100's on slower maps (maybe because they're "bored" or whatnot).
Now, I'm not saying SiLviA or Cookiezi can't and trying to prove that. Just saying that being able to DT FC the song doesn't neccesarily mean you'd easily SS the same song on 1 or 2 tries. (You could try, maybe it applies for you, maybe it doesn't. For me it certainly doesn't)
Oh and just because someone SS'd a song doesn't mean they drilled that song to death...
And I was talking about those impressive SS like Chocobo for example.If you can get 1x100 in a song you never ever played before in your first try, I'm pretty sure that you can easily SS it, at least using myself as an example, if I play something and get really a few 100 in the first try, it's really likely I can SS, and it's also likely I can add mods and get a worse acc than before but a better score. Even when I get your point, unless you were extremely lucky and got some acc you will never get again (is that even possible), being able to almost SS in the first try usually means it's not a big deal for you to get the SS.CXu wrote:
If this top-tier player didn't even try and happened to get an almost SS on some hard song, then kudos to him/her. Are you then certain that if he tried a bit harder, that first play would've been an SS? It's not just "luck" or what you want to call it, but also how consistent you can be with your accuracy. I, for one, tend to get 1~3x100 even if I try to put my mind into SS'ing a map, even when I do it randomly some other time. Oh yeah, why bother. Well, Take me for example: I like to play slowmaps without using DT even if I know I can, because I like to play songs without some shitty speed up. I did say some stuff about slowmaps above, and it could be harder for some people to SS it nomod than with DT.
SSing 110 BPM maps without DT isn't hard but extremely boring I guess for any player who's really past that level, you could say getting SS on some Easy + HR is hard because it's slow, truth is that it's just boring and pointless.The fact that there are almost no maps with AR 7 (or less) and a circle size which doesn't allow you to HR it makes that skill pretty useless. Even when you're right, AR 7 is unplayable when applied in specific situations, many players will even tell you that AR 9 is unplayable on some maps (like in that BD map Rainbow Dash, got many people saying the map was way easier to read with AR 10 than 9). This AR stuff just depends on how the map is and what AR it should have.CXu wrote:
I hear a lot of players complaining about OD7 and lower is unreadable so yeah idk. You don't have to like milk to like cocoa milk (well bad example but whatever)
In the end it's just my opinion on this (like dnextgen said), and as you probably see, it's also how I personally see this top tier thing. Don't get me wrong, thsoe guys you mentioned are surely top-tier players, I just don't think you HAVE to be good at DT to be one, because in the end, I just think a rhythm game should be more based on accuracy than finger speed, which would mean a DT lowacc player shouldn't go higher than a nomod SS player. If you're good a both, then suer, why not be considered a top-tier player lol.
And the problem is it actually doesn't matter what anyone thinks, the mod giving out the greatest amout of score is DT, which can be played with HD too, so if you really want to go and get top scores in.. many songs, you will really like to be able to DT them to get to the top. Of course this game should be about accuracy and stuff, but fact is it isn't, Hard Rock is all about accuracy and then you got this retarded Hidden mod giving out the same bonus and even more since you don't get OD increase and spinners are easy to clear + bonus. The only competition system this game has is getting top scores in each song, and since you can go and do an all-mighty HR HD 99% and still lose against a 95% DT HD, then yeah you it's recommended you can play DT.
And no, low acc DTs are usually harder than the SS nomod alone, and there are lots of situations where DT is harder than HR HD and you still get DT below HR HD, or some few cases where you see a DT under a single HD. If this game was just about accuracy and combo didn't give any bonus you'd be right, but since it isn't...
lol ppl u madwall of text wrote:
more text
he's already high-rated and val tooKRZY wrote:
I wanna put Melancholy in here too, but not sure if he plays anymore
