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PyP Video Game Mafia [MAFIA+SURVIVOR] - Dr. Hitter Escapes!

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akrolsmir
606 posts
Joined November 2010
akrolsmir
So Swift was clearly a sane cop- he correctly got down both the flavor and alignment of adam. I'm going to unvote, vote Mashley then.

If he flips scum, then Lybydose is probably mafia as well- based on what I said earlier about defending adam and the fact that Mashley tried to clear him.

Otherwise, we'll know that Rantai and Wojjan are scum.
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
Unless he flips cop but turns out to be insane, which is a very likely possibility.
akrolsmir
606 posts
Joined November 2010
akrolsmir
Another way Lybydose could be scum I suppose.
Wojjan
806 posts
Joined August 2008
Wojjan

akrolsmir wrote:

So Swift was clearly a sane cop- he correctly got down both the flavor and alignment of adam. I'm going to unvote, vote Mashley then.

If he flips scum, then Lybydose is probably mafia as well- based on what I said earlier about defending adam and the fact that Mashley tried to clear him.

Otherwise, we'll know that Rantai and Wojjan are scum.

akrolsmir wrote:

Another way Lybydose could be scum I suppose.
Weren't you voting Lyby? Wouldn't you think a guilty on your lynch suggestion would be much more likely than two guilties in a row?
Wojjan
806 posts
Joined August 2008
Wojjan
EBWOP: countering the "but then y arnet u voting akro?? lol" argument: I'm still totally down on Mashley lynch.
Lybydose
osu! Alumni
2,024 posts
Joined January 2009
Lybydose
akrolsmir, your logic makes zero sense.

If I was mafia, why would I defend a "reluctant mafia who is going to leave the mafia and become town".

If Mashley turns out to be insane, how could that possibly make me mafia? That would make me TOWN.

oh and vote: Mashley cause I'm not mafia dawg
Lybydose
osu! Alumni
2,024 posts
Joined January 2009
Lybydose
wait goddamnit I misread, disregard 2nd half of above post, Mashley said "not guilty"

damnit I hate that term over "innocent"

unvote
akrolsmir
606 posts
Joined November 2010
akrolsmir

Lybydose wrote:

If I was mafia, why would I defend a "reluctant mafia who is going to leave the mafia and become town".
Because preventing him from being lynched would mean that he stays mafia. Or you might not have known he was a saulus- I get the feeling that's not something one mafia would tell another.

I don't understand what Wojjan's accusing me of, but my reasoning is that Mashley is likely scum, and any way he flips we're netting two mafia. (And nobody seems to agree with me about Lybydose.)
Lybydose
osu! Alumni
2,024 posts
Joined January 2009
Lybydose

akrolsmir wrote:

Lybydose wrote:

If I was mafia, why would I defend a "reluctant mafia who is going to leave the mafia and become town".
Because preventing him from being lynched would mean that he stays mafia. Or you might not have known he was a saulus- I get the feeling that's not something one mafia would tell another.
That doesn't make any sense, his condition to swap to town obviously has nothing to do with being lynched, considering he was still mafia when he died. Why would "preventing him from being lynched" stop him from converting to town?

Furthermore, remember what I said at the start of the day? There is no possible way adam had access to scum chat. If he did, the game setup would be completely broken, and I highly doubt NoHItter would completely break the setup like that.

Lynching adam was clearly a bad move for the town, as it led to a "future town" dying and gave us no insight as to what the hell was going on between Wojjan and Mashley. As in, had we lynched Wojjan, we could have gained information. You're basically trying to lynch me here for being reluctant to go with a plan that was not in the town's best interests. Who's the scummy one here, is it me, or is it you?

If Mashley does end up being scum, how exactly does that give us two scum? Who's the second one, me? You realize that a mafia fake-claiming cop can pick a townie, call him out as innocent, and then lead everyone to believe he's trying to "clear scum partners" when he dies.
Wojjan
806 posts
Joined August 2008
Wojjan

Wojjan wrote:

akrolsmir wrote:

So Swift was clearly a sane cop- he correctly got down both the flavor and alignment of adam. I'm going to unvote, vote Mashley then.

If he flips scum, then Lybydose is probably mafia as well- based on what I said earlier about defending adam and the fact that Mashley tried to clear him.

Otherwise, we'll know that Rantai and Wojjan are scum.

akrolsmir wrote:

Another way Lybydose could be scum I suppose.
Weren't you voting Lyby? Wouldn't you think a guilty on your lynch suggestion would be much more likely than two guilties in a row?
My point here is that for some reason you raise the possibility of Mashley being scum (and through your logic Lyby being scum by extension (not sure how that works yet)) or Mashley being a cop, and Me+Rantai being guilty and thus scum. You completely ignore the fact that Mash has two guilties in a row, and i's starting to seem pretty probable that he's an insane cop, based solely on his results.

If that would be the case, Mash would essentially have a guilty on the person you suspect the most. Why do you assume, if Mash flips town, that Lyby has to be town and me and Rantai mafs?

Sounds like some halfhearted, preemptive distancing there.
Lybydose
osu! Alumni
2,024 posts
Joined January 2009
Lybydose

akrolsmir wrote:

Because preventing him from being lynched would mean that he stays mafia.
oh another thing. You seem to know exactly what causes adam to switch over to town. Tell me, why would a townie know that?

hint: they wouldn't
Wojjan
806 posts
Joined August 2008
Wojjan

Lybydose wrote:

akrolsmir wrote:

Because preventing him from being lynched would mean that he stays mafia.
oh another thing. You seem to know exactly what causes adam to switch over to town. Tell me, why would a townie know that?

hint: they wouldn't
spoiler: it's called speculation
Lybydose
osu! Alumni
2,024 posts
Joined January 2009
Lybydose
That's some pretty horrible speculation. Obviously he's going to switch over to town if he remains unlynched (and you know, still living), otherwise the role would have no point.
KRZY
Former osu! Champion: #3
4,845 posts
Joined May 2009
KRZY
Oh btw I did not target anyone N2.

Vote: Mashley
Rolled
osu! Alumni
1,886 posts
Joined January 2008
Rolled
Asking for replacement.

Can't keep up with this :(

good luck town
LadySuburu
80 posts
Joined June 2008
LadySuburu
At this point I'm leaning towards a mashley lynch as well, since I doubt both the existance of a second motivator and the two guilties seem unlikely.
akrolsmir
606 posts
Joined November 2010
akrolsmir
@Wojjan- I'm open to believing that Mashley could be an insane cop- his sanity should be revealed upon death. I'm not sure what you're trying to get out of me- to vote for Lybydose based on that supposition?

@Lybydose- Are you saying: "We could have had adam convert to our side, thus lynching him was wrong and I was right to defend him?"

If you knew his role beforehand then it's obvious you're scum. That's information no townie had access to. Swift may have received some hints regarding it but no one had pieced it together to understand he was a saulus. Even if you had, there would be no way of knowing that the trigger for his conversion was not his death.
---
If you were mafia, but did not know of adam's role:
You would have tried to protect him from being lynched especially since there was a wagon on Wojjan, if you could have persuaded more people to vote that way then a mafia member stays alive.

If you were mafia and did know of adam's role:
I have no idea what the conditions were for him to become town, but I think you assumed it was to be killed/lynched- that's the way it generally works, at least according to MafiaWiki. Acting under this belief, you would have wanted to prevent him from turning by preventing his lynch; it's just a lucky accident for you, then, that this particular death wasn't the trigger for his conversion.

I'm saying that defending adam would have been consistent with the interests of scum. I'll concede it's possible you were just misguided but that argument would fail to deter me from suspecting you.
Lybydose
osu! Alumni
2,024 posts
Joined January 2009
Lybydose
No, I was reluctant to lynch adam because:

1. I didn't fully believe Swiftwolf's role was a completely sane cop
2. Even under the situation that Swiftwolf was a sane cop, the "note" he found led me to believe that there was more to his role than "har har I'm mafia"
3. People were voting for adam over Wojjan because adam's defense "sucked", even though it's the exact same thing he does every game that he's town. Meanwhile, Wojjan's defense (which actually DID suck) was just "oh yeah there could have been these other roles".

Whatever.

vote: Mashley so he can turn up town and clear me, because otherwise no one will believe anything until Mashley is dead apparently.
Lybydose
osu! Alumni
2,024 posts
Joined January 2009
Lybydose
If you were mafia, but did not know of adam's role:
You would have tried to protect him from being lynched especially since there was a wagon on Wojjan, if you could have persuaded more people to vote that way then a mafia member stays alive.
Also this makes zero sense. If I was mafia and didn't know his role (in other words, he'd be town in my eyes), then how could I possibly know to protect him to keep a mafia member alive?

I'll say this again: there is ZERO chance adam knew who else was in the mafia, therefore, he didn't have access to scum chat. You can't conclude anything based on who he protects or who protects him. This isn't me claiming mafia and saying this because "I know it's true", this is me stating that in the interests of game balance, you CANNOT give a town player (or "converted to town later" player) the scum list.
NoHitter
osu! Alumni
3,785 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
NoHitter
VOTE COUNT:
Mashley (5) - Wojjan, Rantai, akrolsmir, KRZY, Lybydose

Not Voting (10) - LunaticMara, fishie, Lilac, Rolled, Mashley, pieguy1372, foulcoon, tastelikecoke, bmin11, LadySuburu
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Looking for replacement for Rolled
tastelikecoke
212 posts
Joined August 2010
tastelikecoke
Mashley better explain how he got that motivation.

Wojjan wrote:

Weren't you voting Lyby? Wouldn't you think a guilty on your lynch suggestion would be much more likely than two guilties in a row?
So basically, two copped scum is less likely to happen that 1 copped scum, therefore Mash is insane?
So cops are almost impossible to have 2 guilty results eh?

On the other hand, now with three data sets, urr, It's still not clear if Mashley's insane or sane, or scum. This makes me largely doubtful that Swift and Mashley coexist as cops and that Mashley got motivated after DxS's death. Quite lurky too. Amd there's also the two guilty results problem.
I haven't voted in the past days, so I'mma wagon on this one:
Vote: Mashley
Mashley
2,042 posts
Joined September 2008
Mashley

tastelikecoke wrote:

Mashley better explain how he got that motivation.
Hey, how should I know? I just got told about the change to my ability, and not how it happened. I guess lynch is the only way you'll believe my results.
foulcoon
osu! Alumni
1,384 posts
Joined July 2008
foulcoon
Hi apparently I've been prodded while I was posting.

Basically I don't have much else to add on to what other people have said. It is pretty difficult to believe that Mashley was motivated, especially because there was already one motivator.

Then again, he claimed pretty early on and took a risk in doing so, something I think mafia would have a hard time pulling off so early in the game. I guess we'll see as its pretty clear he will probably be lynched. I just know we're in good shape if he turns up to be legit. The only negative is we don't know for certain his sanity either way. I feel like it may be more beneficial to lynch one of his guilty results first.

Let me know what you guys think.
bmin11
5,438 posts
Joined October 2008
bmin11
Responding to Prod and honestly, I'm in lost in WIFOMs. tbh I found Mashley roleclaiming on D2 was a weird move for a cop and for a mafia. Cop would have to wish there would be a protection role (and wish there aren't any Strongmans or Roleblockers) and for mafia, it's pretty a bold move as we'll probably end up lynching Mashley the next day. This would be the equivalent to trading one town (not even sure what kind of aux role is) for a mafia member. Atleast it's a risking a mafia member. It's something I have never seen and never thought of when I played as a mafia tbh.

I'm leaning more of an Insane Cop even though it's really hard to expect Phoenix to be insane. Maybe because he is a defense attorney? idk
Therefore, I'm willing to lynch one from the Innocent Result Mashley got, which is Lyby. It's hard to believe there could be a double cop, but if we look at the N2 result, we got ???????? from Swiftwolf. NoHItter may have tried to pull off a Miller + Cop role to hinder it. I think it is possible to have another cop

Motivator is something I'm having trouble with forming an opinion. It's full of WIFOM if I try to imagine any kinds of restriction or a time period for it's ability to work so it fits to the results we are getting. Just ruleing out the possibility is the easiest and the most believeable case to me. Just one question is why is Mashley bringing up the motivator into this if he is mafia? WIFOM WIFOM



P.S. Pretty much the same as foulcoon posted before me >_>... (just updated the thread before posting
foulcoon
osu! Alumni
1,384 posts
Joined July 2008
foulcoon
Stemming off what you just said about Phoenix Wright. Insane cop doesn't really make sense for the video game choice. Maybe a naive cop (a defense attorney would want Innocent verdicts), but not an insane cop.
LadySuburu
80 posts
Joined June 2008
LadySuburu

foulcoon wrote:

Stemming off what you just said about Phoenix Wright. Insane cop doesn't really make sense for the video game choice.
Spoilers just in case.

SPOILER
Be sure you don't mind being potentially spoilered.

There's a certain scenario in the game where the bad guy is forcing him to give a certain verdict at risk of the life of one of Phoenix's friends or something. I haven't played it but I did watch it a while back. With that being true, insane could be an option with that kind of flavor. Someone who has played Phoenix might want to comment more on it though, because my memory isn't the clearest and I didn't actually play the game.
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
If he is an insane cop then Lybydose should be mafia. If we lynch Lybydose and he flips town, then Mashley is sane or he isn't a cop at all.

But to verify that we'll need to lynch Wojjan or I which I believe are not mafia.

I don't know, Mashley being lynched is at least guaranteed information.
FisHie_old
742 posts
Joined November 2009
FisHie_old
Vote: Mashley

I really hope that this is worth it.
Lilac
Elite Mapper
1,515 posts
Joined December 2008
Lilac
To further elaborate the LS's point, it's true that it did happen. What's more concerning, however, is that it is really the only case that I cam think of in which Phoenix is pressured to do that.

In the end, he found him genuinely guilty and it was happy days. It's been a LONG time since I played it.
Mashley
2,042 posts
Joined September 2008
Mashley
One more vote and I'm hammered I believe.
Is sanity usually revealed when a player is killed?
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
I sure hope so or we'll have to spend another day lynching for verification >.>
bmin11
5,438 posts
Joined October 2008
bmin11

Lilac wrote:

To further elaborate the LS's point, it's true that it did happen. What's more concerning, however, is that it is really the only case that I cam think of in which Phoenix is pressured to do that.

In the end, he found him genuinely guilty and it was happy days. It's been a LONG time since I played it.
He was only able to do that after he knew his friend was safe.
foulcoon
osu! Alumni
1,384 posts
Joined July 2008
foulcoon
I don't think sanity will be revealed, so either way we're kind of wasting a lynch on verification. Thats why I thought it would be more beneficial to lynch one of the people Mashley found Guilty.
Wojjan
806 posts
Joined August 2008
Wojjan
The main problem with that is that it's not a guarantee at all. If Mash is scum and just listed three townies with random results to gun for some mislynches the flip of a townie that's either guilty or inno won't pronounce the others as inno or guilty scum. If we go for Mash and maybe get his sanity at least we can lynch depending on that. Otherwise if he flips cop I'm pretty sure Phoenix won't be a RANDOM cop, so we can lynch either or based on an educated guess.
pieguyn
2,020 posts
Joined May 2009
pieguyn
Responding to prod o.o

I have been following the thread, but I couldn't effing make up my mind and I was too busy to think about it much. Right now, I think it's most likely that Mashley is insane, which would make Lyby mafia, Rantai town, and Wojjan town. He already got two guilty results which doesn't seem that likely, and I also think Lyby is mafia because he attacked people for voting adam. He also FoS'ed me for "stopping discussion" when he voted for adam himself, despite the fact that if I waited Wojjan, who was town, could have been lynched.

The situation of Mashley being insane and Lyby being mafia makes sense IMO. vote: Lybydose
pieguyn
2,020 posts
Joined May 2009
pieguyn
Fix: was -> could be

he could still be mafia, but I don't think it's that likely at this point, hence my error :?
Lybydose
osu! Alumni
2,024 posts
Joined January 2009
Lybydose
or a scum slip
Lybydose
osu! Alumni
2,024 posts
Joined January 2009
Lybydose
@Mashley: how are your results worded? I know you "kind of" answered it earlier, but that question was whether or not you got the person's name in your result.

Specifically, I'm wondering if you get "foo is town" and "foobar is not town", or if it comes up "foobar is guilty" and "foo is not guilty"? I'm assuming the latter based on what you said earlier.

The difference being that an independent role shows up differently depending on the wording.
Lybydose
osu! Alumni
2,024 posts
Joined January 2009
Lybydose
also unvote so there's no hammer before he responds
Mara
4,906 posts
Joined November 2009
Mara
So. much. text.

tl;dr - Mashley is getting lynched because there can't be two polices?

How about checkin' his insanity instead of lynching him? I'm just sayin'.
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