Beatmap Nominator wrote:

Hello, I deem the map not ready for ranking in its current state. Hello there~

Maximum Clover Power

Unclear accentuation of the music

1. 00:01:341 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - Patterns such as this one don't seem to follow much in the music. They're spaced all roughly the same, they do not really make a concrete shape and do not accentuate anything. When everything is spaced in a similar manner, nothing stands out and the pattern becomes very bland to play.
   
2. 00:03:453 (2,3,4,5,6) - Here you seem to start emphasizing the claps unlike your previous pattern - but one measure later you omit those from your accentuations again at 00:04:721 (1,2,3,4) - . Ok, here I'm replying for this point and the one from above~ I see you're a newer mapper (and BN), and I'm an old guy, so we have different perspectives in mapping. As an old mapper I prefer to not concentrate much on individual note spacing depending on the intensity and I rather organize the objects in certain patterns. 00:01:341 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - In this pattern I am taking the stronger vocals as a whole, hence the similar spacing within it. 00:03:453 (2,3,4,5,6) - Here, yeah, I switched to emphasizing the claps, but don't think it was random decision. In this place the vocals are not as relevant as in 00:01:341 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - imo, so I decided to add some variety on what I'm following to make the map more interesting to play. 00:04:721 (1,2,3,4) - Here, again I am starting to follow the strongest vocals like in the first pattern mentioned (new stanza). Then, as you can see, I switch my focus differently in the next measure just like in the previous patterns.
   
3. 00:10:003 (2,3,4,5,6) - Pattern separation seems to be wrong here. You used the same spacing for 00:09:791 (1,2,3) - when 00:10:214 (3) - has the strongest vocal and a clap (both of which you accentuated at some point in the map, but omitted here) You're right on this one, fixed~
   
4. 00:13:172 (1,2,3,4,5) - The same goes for this pattern - all notes are spaced the same when there is a clear difference in intensity as there are finishes on some notes. As you can hear, besides the intensity-varying instruments, there's also the vocals of the artist screaming, which become relevant for me, and as you already know by this point of my reply, when important vocals come, I decide to map them as a whole rather than focusing on single object spacing, hence the pattern (a clear shape made from all those strong vocals unifies them as a whole). But I also thought about the strong instrumental part, that's why I also increased the spacing significantly in this pattern. It's just a different way of what you prefer to follow the music on a personal level, so please understand that not everyone will map the same, and that's okay.
   
5. Issues may repeat themselves.

Gameplay elements

1. 00:07:045 (3,4,5) - This angle plays very abruptly, is overspaced and the movement feels forced. My testplayers didn't have problems with it.
   
2. 00:08:101 (1,2,3,4) - This part suddenly uses a lot of consecutive sliders when, looking at your previous patterns, the map seemed to be very circle-based before. This is the last starting part of the vocals before the big star-shaped jumps, so I'm making some contrast with it, plus it should help players to rest a tiny bit before the mentioned jumps.Another thing I wanna add is that the vocals even sound quite different from previous patterns. I don't see this small variation as something bad; yes, it's being inconsistent in the matter of the objects used, but it has a purpose to be that way.
   
3. 00:14:862 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - The wide angles here come as a suprise - you used mostly snappy angles before. If you compare it to 00:18:242 (1,2,3,4) - , this one is a ton harder to play both in spacing and movement, even though they are the same in the song. There are absolutely no issues with this. I don't think of these as wide angles, and neither Kisses, as you can see from his post lul. Also, I made the jumps a bit larger than previous patterns because this is pretty much the climax of the song and I want players to get that feeling.
   
4. Issues may repeat themselves.

Other than that, CS6,5 on the top diff feels very forced and seems to be added for no other reason than sheer difficulty and the map does not very well support this gimmick - angles with very harsh movements such as 00:06:834 (2,3) - and 00:22:256 (4,5,6,7,8,1) - and 00:24:580 (8,1) - play very unnatural with such small circles since the likelihood of slipping out of sliders accidentally is increased a lot the higher the CS gets. Not an issue, as you can see even a couple of people took their time to post about this. It plays just fine. About the CS, that's pretty much more personal and I mapped the song with it since I started the diff, it's nothing that I forced later just for the sake of increasing difficulty and I made my patterns based on this CS.

I don't think the BG on the top diff fits. It has nothing to do with OneRoom as far as I can see. I feel like the bg fits on a personal level, and as the mapper I wish to keep it. You see, you can hear cute young voices in the song, and when I hear those voices I can think of the characters in the current background of the highest diff performing this song. Well, that's how I see things. You know, I used to have this background for all the difficulties, but I left it just for the highest difficulty so the set doesn't feel random overall; this shouldn't be an issue now.

Due to above reasoning, I'm placing a veto on this map. This means the mapset can not be rebubbled by Monstrata and can only be overruled by a third BN.
As Monstrata said, you just placed a veto even before I could even reply to your mod; not knowing whether I was going to either accept or reject all of your suggestions/"issues" . You didn't give me a chance to breathe or tell you if I agreed with your reasoning. It felt somewhat agressive and rushed tbh. Sadly, this makes me believe Naotoshi's statement below your post is actually right. It is not only that, but also because of the fact that you posted this earlier on this thread, which looks quite negative and against the song, not the map. I hope my thoughts about this are wrong and this is not the truth because this is not a suitable behavior for someone in your current position and we all should be friends in this game. Despite this, thank you for taking some of your time to have a look at my map and express your concerns.

Kisses wrote:

@voli I wouldn't consider 00:14:862 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) to be wide angles, just saying.
[]
some more stuff

00:27:115 (3) - shouldn't this be a clap instead of normal sampleset? Looking at the way the rest of the section was hitsounded Yes but no, while it is true that this normally would be a clap, I decided to use a normal sampleset to make it stand out from the surrounding objects with the same hitsound (clap), plus it is the last kind of this sound in the song, so I want it to be special (that's why this is consistent on the rest of the diffs)

00:24:791 (1) - The spacing of this specifically seemed a tad too high compared to the spacing of the rest of the map it's for emphasis in the scream+strong instrument, which is also something that stands out quite a lot compared to the rest of the song~

[]
w ~

1. 00:01:341 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - You justify these patterns by saying you incorporate all of these notes into one ''general intensity'' kind of pattern. That does kind of contrast with the way other parts of your map are done (for example you put heavy accentuation on ''individual'' clap sounds 00:03:453 (2,6) -, 00:10:214 (3) - etc. ). Besides that, I feel there are many better ways to express this part 00:01:341 (1,2,3) -. Rather than incorporating two different vocal sections into one big star-like pattern, you could more clearly define the latter part of the vocals as you did in these kind of patterns 00:04:721 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - .
   
2. 00:03:453 (2,3,4,5) - Yes, you switched to claps here, but the problem is that you expressed this pattern exactly the same as your patterns that follow the vocals. That, in my opinion, makes little sense and doesn't clearly outline a concept besides ''use squares whenever you don't know what to do''. Besides, I don't really understand the choice for a square pattern here either way since these notes all differ in intensity.
   
3. 00:14:862 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - You said there are no issues with this at all. I think the angle at which the pattern is placed makes a half square-like thing like this 00:14:862 (1,2,3,4) - super awkward to play. Even more so because the latter part again isn't clearly defined at 00:15:707 (5,6,7) - .
   
4. 00:17:186 (3,4,5) - symmetry is rather forced, you map to vocals with this object 00:17:186 (3) - but 00:17:820 (5) - focuses on something completely different.
   
5. 00:22:256 (4,5,6) - These triples throughout the map and the angles you placed them on (you first have to move your cursor all the way to the bottom and then make a reverse motion upwards again) feel way too overemphasized for the soft percussion they represent. You said your testplayers didn't have problems with it, which isn't really a strong argument on its own, but apart from that I also think it could be better from a design perspective.

ezek wrote:

As Monstrata said, you just placed a veto even before I could even reply to your mod; not knowing whether I was going to either accept or reject all of your suggestions/"issues" . You didn't give me a chance to breathe or tell you if I agreed with your reasoning. It felt somewhat agressive and rushed tbh. Sadly, this makes me believe Naotoshi's statement below your post is actually right. It is not only that, but also because of the fact that you posted this earlier on this thread, which looks quite negative and against the song, not the map. I hope my thoughts about this are wrong and this is not the truth because this is not a suitable behavior for someone in your current position and we all should be friends in this game. Despite this, thank you for taking some of your time to have a look at my map and express your concerns.

Beatmap Nominator wrote:

As per further clarification.

1. 00:01:341 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - You justify these patterns by saying you incorporate all of these notes into one ''general intensity'' kind of pattern. That does kind of contrast with the way other parts of your map are done (for example you put heavy accentuation on ''individual'' clap sounds 00:03:453 (2,6) -, 00:10:214 (3) - etc. ). Besides that, I feel there are many better ways to express this part 00:01:341 (1,2,3) -. Rather than incorporating two different vocal sections into one big star-like pattern, you could more clearly define the latter part of the vocals as you did in these kind of patterns 00:04:721 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - . 00:04:721 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - is just a variation I'm using to make the map feel more dynamic, as you can see I used. So basically 00:01:341 (1,2,3,4,5) - first verse, mapped vocals as a whole~ 00:04:721 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - second verse, created some sense of progression in the strength of the vocals. It repeats itself~ 00:14:862 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - first verse, objects have similar spacing and forming a shape, mapped as a whole, then 00:18:242 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - second verse again, same concept. This is like.. very easy to understand and I was consistent with my concept. It's obvious that I mapped it this way on purpose because that's how I want to make a fun dynamic map but also not ruining what is the representation of the song from my perspective.
   
2. 00:03:453 (2,3,4,5) - Yes, you switched to claps here, but the problem is that you expressed this pattern exactly the same as your patterns that follow the vocals. That, in my opinion, makes little sense and doesn't clearly outline a concept besides ''use squares whenever you don't know what to do''. Besides, I don't really understand the choice for a square pattern here either way since these notes all differ in intensity. I believe I have explained this already.
   
3. 00:14:862 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - You said there are no issues with this at all. I think the angle at which the pattern is placed makes a half square-like thing like this 00:14:862 (1,2,3,4) - super awkward to play. Even more so because the latter part again isn't clearly defined at 00:15:707 (5,6,7) - . Some experienced players already let us know that this is fine. Well, now on the matter of the square-like thing you meantioned, this is no square at all, they're pretty much two triangles made by 1 2 3 and 4 5 6, then I'm using 7 to transition to the next measure that starts with a stack of notes starting with 8 (plus makes the whole pattern feel more complete as it fills a gap just like 5 does).
   
4. 00:17:186 (3,4,5) - symmetry is rather forced, you map to vocals with this object 00:17:186 (3) - but 00:17:820 (5) - focuses on something completely different. 00:17:186 (3) - starts on a strong vocal and 00:17:820 (5) - starts on a strong instrument, which imo is a good way to transition from vocals to instruments, especially when there are no more vocals in this measure and there are a lot of circles coming ahead~ I feel the map would feel more unbalanced if I decided to use more circles in this measure.
   
5. 00:22:256 (4,5,6) - These triples throughout the map and the angles you placed them on (you first have to move your cursor all the way to the bottom and then make a reverse motion upwards again) feel way too overemphasized for the soft percussion they represent. You said your testplayers didn't have problems with it, which isn't really a strong argument on its own, but apart from that I also think it could be better from a design perspective. Come on, this is cs6.5 and the jump is not really that big how you make it sound with the word "overemphasized". The point of the map is not to be super friendly and just make everyone able to fc at first attempt lol, and the fact that testplayers didn't have problem is a fine reason since well... players are not having issues and those are the people who are going to play the map after all. Well, aside of the players being okay with it, I already declined with my own belief.

ezek wrote:

As Monstrata said, you just placed a veto even before I could even reply to your mod; not knowing whether I was going to either accept or reject all of your suggestions/"issues" . You didn't give me a chance to breathe or tell you if I agreed with your reasoning. It felt somewhat agressive and rushed tbh. Sadly, this makes me believe Naotoshi's statement below your post is actually right. It is not only that, but also because of the fact that you posted this earlier on this thread, which looks quite negative and against the song, not the map. I hope my thoughts about this are wrong and this is not the truth because this is not a suitable behavior for someone in your current position and we all should be friends in this game. Despite this, thank you for taking some of your time to have a look at my map and express your concerns.

A veto is simply a preemptive measure BNs can take (as of now, rip moddingv2?) when they feel a bubble was placed too rashly. As I can point out design flaws in nearly every single pattern of the top difficulty of this 30 second-long map, it leads me to believe that I acted accordingly. As for your questioning of my motive, it's not a secret to anyone that this song has been mapped and ranked countless times already in the past few months. To keep the game's content fresh and not repetitive, I personally think that if you, as a game, keep releasing the same content over and over again, it should be held to quite a higher standard than previous iterations. The community has expressed their discomfort and concerns about this song being continuously ranked already and I think we (as BNs) should actively participate in upholding the quality of said content. That said, in my opinion, slapping cs6,5 onto a map like this doesn't really contribute to that either.

Weber wrote:

I'd argue that the visual difference between the OneRoom bg and the furry bg is uh, pretty substantial, even if you discount the actual irrelevance, doesn't seem appropriate just because you think "oh these sound like these characters in my head" while still using a bg from the actual source material in the other diffs. Go all or nothing, because having both makes the top diff look HORRENDOUSLY out of place.

Also, why didn't you use the furry bg for all of your diffs if that's what you visualize when listening to it?

Naotoshi wrote:

i do agree with my previous statement about the bg, and yea vetoing a map cuz you don't like the song is pretty stupid imo :p

anyway if sharkie and fiery are willing to seriously revamp their diffs i would be willing to help out, since the song isn't changing voli isn't gonna remove his veto.

Chromoxx wrote:

I approve of the bg

Chromoxx wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/5924058 neverforget ;w;

Regraz wrote:

M4M

[Easy]
00:26:481 (1) - Better Ctrl+H in shape. applied~

[Normal]
00:08:101 (1,3) - These two sliders look a bit too close as to visual spacing true, fixed~

00:13:172 (1,2,3) - These three sharp sliders looks ehh They highlight an important and unique part of the song

[Maximum Clover Power]
00:06:411 (1) - Ctrl+G for a better flow? agree, applied

Regraz wrote:

[Mk's Light Insane]
00:11:270 (6,1) - Triplet here too? Like 00:09:580 (5,6,1) - ye fixed

ezek wrote:

1. 00:07:045 (3,4,5) - This angle plays very abruptly, is overspaced and the movement feels forced. My testplayers didn't have problems with it.

1. 00:01:341 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - The map is already starting off with one of these patterns. The problem here is not really the emphasis as you put it right onto the white ticks but spacing wise, I can't really make out a sense behind it. Especially 00:02:397 (6,7) - is a huge spike in it while you then have to abruptly slow down on 00:02:608 (7,8) - making the movement very uncomfortable.
2. 00:13:383 (2,3,4,5) - While I see this as a pattern-based emphasis, you always use single note emphasis in the rest of the map. Moreover I don't see any structure behind this one at all, it just seems like you have placed random notes over the screen in order to express the intensity.
3. 00:14:862 - From this point on, why do you suddenly spike up the spacing much more than in the beginning? The music is really similar to the first sections, I don't really see a shift in intensity.
4. 00:21:834 (2,3) - This angle is so wide that it does not really fit in with the other flow used in the map which was mainly sharp jumps.

Monstrata wrote:

You can't veto a map without hearing the other person's side first. What if they fix everything you considered an issue? Don't make this a repeat of Alien... A veto happens when you and the mapper are unable to agree on something.

Chromoxx wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/5924058 neverforget ;w;

Mao wrote:

Hey ezek, I'm popping your bubble because I still have some concerns about the mapset in general that I think weren't addressed properly.

[Maximum Clover Power]

ezek wrote:

1. 00:07:045 (3,4,5) - This angle plays very abruptly, is overspaced and the movement feels forced. My testplayers didn't have problems with it.

Just because they didn't have problems does not mean that they haven't felt that it's forced. Well, they didn't say it felt forced~ it was fine for them iirc (it's been 2 months, yikes!). Anyway, you should testplay it yourself and give me your own thought to confirm this.

Anyways, I don't agree with the map not fitting the song, in fact the pattern-based emphasis works pretty well.
My major complaint about this difficulty however is that even if you mapped it with CS6.5 in mind, you did not execute it very well in my opinion. While the map itself play fine, every jump plays like a full screenjump. Due to that the difficulty feels like it's risen artificially like you would play it with Hardrock enabled.
My suggestion to fix this issue is to just turn down the CS by at least one, so you'd still have a pretty low CS but improve the map's feel greatly. Umm.. isn't that the purpose if CS in first place? This is subjective, something that is up for the mapper. It would be like saying that the CS on pishi's low CS extras make them feel too easy. You even mentioned the thing that actually matters, which is the map fitting the song. The patterns and the jumps represent the song while CS is is there to make a challenge. I feel my map wouldn't be the same if I increase CS, and as you mentioned, I mapped with CS6.5 in mind. So I'm not changing CS for the likes of others, it would just ruin my creation. (If that isn't enough, I could say the small cs represents the cuteness of the voices because small = cute.)

Mao wrote:

Moreover, not concerning the difficulties mentioned above and not part of the actual pop, I think fieryrage's diff could profit from some more mods as in its current state, it's just jumpy pattern -> two sliders -> jumpy patterns -> two sliders which is incredibly boring to play with the patterns all feeling the same. I think this concept is fine for this song since the rhythm supports this mainly with the vocals increasing pitch during the jump patterns, so I want to represent that as best as I can with jumps that gradually space out instead of having, for example, sliders. It's boring to play, yeah, but the song isn't really the best in terms of unique rhythms and other gimmicks that I could add to the map.

osu file format v14

[General]
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AudioLeadIn: 0
PreviewTime: 179
Countdown: 0
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[Metadata]
Title:Harumachi Clover
TitleUnicode:春待ちクローバー
Artist:Hanasaka Yui(CV: M.A.O)
ArtistUnicode:花坂結衣(CV：Ｍ・Ａ・Ｏ)
Creator:ezek
Version:Fiery's Extra
Source:OneRoom
Tags:tvsize tv size kantoku カントク one room ワンルーム MkGuh ReFaller Sharkie fieryrage
BeatmapID:1396152
BeatmapSetID:652412

[Difficulty]
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CircleSize:3.8
OverallDifficulty:8.4
ApproachRate:8.6
SliderMultiplier:2.5
SliderTickRate:1

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Kuron-kun wrote:

why no furry bg?

15:37 ezek: https://ezekk.s-ul.eu/7KcS4FWT
15:38 mancuso_JM_: lol
15:38 ezek: me esta matando eso desde antier xD
15:39 mancuso_JM_: xDDDD
15:39 mancuso_JM_: che.. ya estoy mirando tu mapa
15:40 mancuso_JM_: queres que modee tus dificultades por aca o no hay tiempo? :thinking:
15:40 ezek: como sea :3c
15:41 mancuso_JM_: Bueno.. asi justifico menos supongo xD
15:41 ezek: lol
15:42 mancuso_JM_: primero que nada, me pregunto si hay alguna posibilidad de hacer el BG de la diff mas dificil del mismo tamaño y formato que la otra imagen 
15:42 mancuso_JM_: (1920x1080 /.
15:42 mancuso_JM_: .png)
15:42 ezek: nop, ya consegui la mejor resolucion de la pagina del artista
15:42 ezek: oh si, tienes que dejar razon por la cual estas en desacuerdo con mao aparte de que yo ya deje mis razones por que luego te acusan de b4b y nos mandan a probation como le hicieron con regraz
15:43 ezek: el mayor problema era la diff de sharkie (segun mao), pero ya no esta esa diff ahora
15:43 mancuso_JM_: imposible que me acusen por b4b, si no tengo ningun mapa 
15:43 mancuso_JM_: ni siquiera una gd en pending xDDD
15:43 mancuso_JM_: yo despues hablo con Mao igual
15:44 ezek: sacan cualquier bobada, esperemos que vaya bien
15:45 mancuso_JM_: siguiendo con sugerencias, intenta disminuir el volumen considerablemente en la linea del offset (si, la -349) al menos hasta 60%, solo tienes la voz y se siente muy alto
15:45 mancuso_JM_: despues puedes agregar una linea verde en 00:01:341 - aumentando el volumen
15:45 mancuso_JM_: que es donde comienza el instrumental
15:46 ezek: suena bien, lo hare
15:47 mancuso_JM_: lo haces en las gd o lo posteo despues tambien? 
15:47 ezek: lo hare en las gds, no es algo que ocupe pedir permiso lul
15:47 mancuso_JM_: eso es cierto
15:48 mancuso_JM_: por cierto, creo que es el primer mapa que te veo mapear tan simetrico xDDD
15:49 ezek: hehe :3c
15:49 ezek: como es corto no me dio flojera
15:50 mancuso_JM_: bueno.. en Easy 00:13:172 (3) - nc por los platillos, siento necesario remarcar eso
15:50 mancuso_JM_: 00:21:622 (1,2) - mejor intercambiar estos por el cambio de transicion
15:50 ezek: hecho ambos
15:52 mancuso_JM_: Normal: 00:07:890 (6) - / 00:21:411 (6) - eliminaría estas notas, no hay necesidad de hacer un mapeo tan constante en esta dificultad, ademas enfatiza mejor el cambio de combo ese pequeño espacio en blanco
15:53 ezek: no me gusta la idea de ignorar esas vocals :c
15:53 ezek: sin esos circulos siento muy vacio
15:54 mancuso_JM_: siento esas dos tan parecidas a 00:04:510 - y 00:18:031 - que me parecio algo extraño
15:55 ezek: como? :o
15:56 mancuso_JM_: siento que la voz en todos esos tiempos actua de la misma manera, tener notas en algunos puntos y en otros no me parecio extraño
15:57 mancuso_JM_: simplemente eso xD
15:57 ezek: en las que si tengo nota tambien lo uso de build up para el finish 00:08:101 (1) - 00:21:622 (1) -
15:57 ezek: y en las que no tiene pues no sigue una nota con finish
15:58 mancuso_JM_: 00:18:242 (1) - eso tiene finish xD
15:58 ezek: o raiyos
15:59 mancuso_JM_: igual me conformo con que cambies el finish por el whistle
15:59 mancuso_JM_: no es algo que afecte tanto y en parte tiene sentido
15:59 ezek: ok, lo cambio por whistle, que horror acomodar tando para la simetria lol
15:59 ezek: tanto*
16:00 mancuso_JM_: lol
16:00 ezek: aunque.. en las demas diffs sigue siendo finish... tengo que dejar el finish argh
16:00 ezek: buscare mejor solucionnn
16:00 mancuso_JM_: cambia el patron jajaja
16:01 mancuso_JM_: bueno.. yo sigo, si cambias algo en eso me avisas
16:02 ezek: si, agregue la nota mejor, pero ando acomodando la simetria
16:03 mancuso_JM_: 00:08:946 (2,3,1) - eso suena raro, parece que queres seguir la voz pero a la vez el downbeat ese en 00:09:791 (1) - y al final no sigue ni una cosa ni la otra xD. Te dejo dos opciones [http://up.ppy.sh/files/hc.jpg para seguir la voz] o [http://up.ppy.sh/files/hc(1).jpg en caso que quieras seguir respetando el downbeat] 
16:05 mancuso_JM_: 00:26:904 (4,5,6,7) - [https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/10660952 hazlo por mi :c]
16:05 ezek: segui el downbeat
16:06 ezek: y.. sliders curveaditos hechos
16:06 mancuso_JM_: 00:28:383 (1,1) - mejor deja esta tecnica para las dificultades a partir de la hard :p (supongo que sabes a lo que me refiero)
16:06 mancuso_JM_: eso seria todo en la normal
16:07 ezek: me parece bien el del spinner, no es un bpm muy alto que digamos y esta facil de atrapar
16:09 mancuso_JM_: en general suelen no reaccionar muy bien los que juegan Normal a este estilo de patrones, ademas creo que te puede ayudar mejor a la progresion de las dificultades, ya que la unica con un spinner solo es la Easy (por razones logicas)
16:10 ezek: hmm ok, aplicado
16:11 mancuso_JM_: Hard: 00:09:158 (4) - supongo que podrias reducir este slider en 1/2 y agregar una nota en 00:09:580 - , la razon es la misma de la Normal
16:12 ezek: ok, hecho
16:15 mancuso_JM_: 00:22:467 (3,4,1) - / 00:24:369 (5,6,1) -  en general los jumps que utilizaste en esta dificultad son para enfatizar los downbeats, excepto en estos caso. De todos modos, la idea es logica, pero podrias hacerlo un poco menos evidente, por ejemplo en el primer caso puedes ubicar 00:22:890 (4) - en x:424 y:240 para tener un espacio consistente
16:18 ezek: oki doki
16:19 ezek: mira aqui esta la hard para que veas como lo hice https://ezekk.s-ul.eu/m0uWOaRW
16:21 mancuso_JM_: :ok_hand:
16:22 ezek: :eyes:
16:22 mancuso_JM_: creo que en la Insane no hay nada para decir xD
16:22 ezek: yeeiii :D
16:23 mancuso_JM_: igual dije "creo" haha
16:23 ezek: chan chaan chaaaaaaaan
16:25 mancuso_JM_: no.. no hay nada :p
16:26 ezek: yaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii :DDD
16:27 mancuso_JM_: me podria poner pesado diciendo "es puro 1/2 con poca variedad" pero la cancion es asi y el uso de los jumps y ritmo es coherente
16:27 mancuso_JM_: asi que paso de eso xD
16:27 ezek: phew
16:28 mancuso_JM_: Maximum Drama Power : 00:07:573 - te exijo agregar una nota como taiko mapper/modder que soy xD, okno pero el drum que esta ahi es bastante evidente
16:29 ezek: caso no escucho nada o.o
16:29 ezek: casi*
16:30 mancuso_JM_: no? yo lo escucho tan bien xd
16:30 mancuso_JM_: al final debe ser el oido de taiko si jeje
16:30 ezek: lul
16:31 ezek: ademas no poner nota ahi se me hace mejor por que genera mas constraste con 00:07:890 (8,9) -
16:32 mancuso_JM_: quizas un mayor spacing entre 00:07:467 (6,7) - entonces, lo mismo del drum y a su vez hace mejor constraste en mi opinion
16:32 mancuso_JM_: (7) alrededor de 120,144 estaria bien
16:33 ezek: ok, aplicado
16:34 mancuso_JM_: cambiando un ratito de tema, soy yo o los servidores de osu! andan bastante mal ultimamente?
16:34 ezek: la verdad no se lol
16:35 mancuso_JM_: las pocas veces que me he conectado a la pagina, muchas veces que sale el cartel "algo esta mal bla bla bla"
16:35 mancuso_JM_: (ahora me esta pasando por ejemplo)
16:35 ezek: voy a ver
16:35 ezek: uff si anda lenta la wea
16:36 mancuso_JM_: "No pippi, that's a bad pippi!" xD
16:36 ezek: xDDDD
16:37 ezek: no pippi, no me toques el pippi xp
16:37 ezek: something's not right
16:37 ezek: click here for osu! staus!
16:37 mancuso_JM_: parece que se me arreglo
16:38 ezek: igual
16:39 ezek: ya hice update al mapa uwu
16:42 mancuso_JM_: cs 6.3? xDD.. no hace la gran diferencia pero al menos parece que discutimos algo sobre esto jajaja
16:43 ezek: hmmmmmmmmmm
16:43 ezek: ok seÑor
16:43 mancuso_JM_: es lo maximo que se puede reducir para que no afecte la estetica del mapa, mas de eso ya queda feo
16:43 ezek: updated~

1. 00:07:785 (5) - Is this note really necessary? I think there isn't any high pitch there and I also think you can emphasize much better the music deleting this note, the other mappers decided to keep this without objects and I do agree with them.
2. 00:28:383 (T) - You should keep the volume at this slider beginning, the music is still acting and this sounds really low. Try deleting moving this green line to 00:28:489 - to give this slider start a better effect.

1. 00:00:284 (1,2,3,4,5) - Would be better to don't have any jumpy pattern at the beginning because you only have vocals here and the rest of your jumps don't feel really emphasized after this pattern. I constant spacing would be the better option.
2. 00:02:820 (6,7,1) - A bit nitpicky but make sure to stack them properly. It's the only stacked pattern that is not perfectly stacked
3. 00:15:284 (2) - Make this slider curved. It looks much better than a stright slider.
4. 00:23:101 (1) - This one flows and look a bit weird. I prefer to see something like this instead.

fieryrage wrote:

Mao wrote:

Moreover, not concerning the difficulties mentioned above and not part of the actual pop, I think fieryrage's diff could profit from some more mods as in its current state, it's just jumpy pattern -> two sliders -> jumpy patterns -> two sliders which is incredibly boring to play with the patterns all feeling the same. I think this concept is fine for this song since the rhythm supports this mainly with the vocals increasing pitch during the jump patterns, so I want to represent that as best as I can with jumps that gradually space out instead of having, for example, sliders. It's boring to play, yeah, but the song isn't really the best in terms of unique rhythms and other gimmicks that I could add to the map.

ezek wrote:

Mao wrote:

Hey ezek, I'm popping your bubble because I still have some concerns about the mapset in general that I think weren't addressed properly.

[Maximum Clover Power]

Anyways, I don't agree with the map not fitting the song, in fact the pattern-based emphasis works pretty well.
My major complaint about this difficulty however is that even if you mapped it with CS6.5 in mind, you did not execute it very well in my opinion. While the map itself play fine, every jump plays like a full screenjump. Due to that the difficulty feels like it's risen artificially like you would play it with Hardrock enabled.
My suggestion to fix this issue is to just turn down the CS by at least one, so you'd still have a pretty low CS but improve the map's feel greatly. Umm.. isn't that the purpose if CS in first place? This is subjective, something that is up for the mapper. It would be like saying that the CS on pishi's low CS extras make them feel too easy. You even mentioned the thing that actually matters, which is the map fitting the song. The patterns and the jumps represent the song while CS is is there to make a challenge. I feel my map wouldn't be the same if I increase CS, and as you mentioned, I mapped with CS6.5 in mind. So I'm not changing CS for the likes of others, it would just ruin my creation. (If that isn't enough, I could say the small cs represents the cuteness of the voices because small = cute.)

mancuso_JM_ wrote:

[Fiery's Extra]

1. 00:00:284 (1,2,3,4,5) - Would be better to don't have any jumpy pattern at the beginning because you only have vocals here and the rest of your jumps don't feel really emphasized after this pattern. I constant spacing would be the better option. was told to have these spaced out for consistency by a couple other people, besides they're spaced so small that it really doesn't matter too much imo
2. 00:02:820 (6,7,1) - A bit nitpicky but make sure to stack them properly. It's the only stacked pattern that is not perfectly stacked i blame editor for this one
3. 00:15:284 (2) - Make this slider curved. It looks much better than a stright slider. oke
4. 00:23:101 (1) - This one flows and look a bit weird. I prefer to see something like this instead. 00:22:256 (4,5,6,1) - would screw up this blanket if I did, and I think it flows fine as it is

osu file format v14

[General]
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AudioLeadIn: 0
PreviewTime: 179
Countdown: 0
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BeatDivisor: 4
GridSize: 4
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[Metadata]
Title:Harumachi Clover
TitleUnicode:春待ちクローバー
Artist:Hanasaka Yui(CV: M.A.O)
ArtistUnicode:花坂結衣(CV：Ｍ・Ａ・Ｏ)
Creator:ezek
Version:Fiery's Extra
Source:OneRoom
Tags:tvsize tv size kantoku カントク one room ワンルーム MkGuh ReFaller fieryrage
BeatmapID:1396152
BeatmapSetID:652412

[Difficulty]
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OverallDifficulty:8.4
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159,227,20672,1,0,0:0:0:0:
159,227,20777,5,2,0:0:0:0:
321,92,20989,1,0,0:0:0:0:
275,325,21200,1,8,0:0:0:0:
331,64,21411,1,0,0:0:0:0:
159,227,21622,5,4,0:0:0:0:
391,145,21834,1,0,0:0:0:0:
168,64,22045,1,8,0:0:0:0:
310,265,22256,1,0,0:0:0:0:
310,265,22362,1,0,0:0:0:0:
310,265,22467,1,2,0:0:0:0:
410,38,22679,1,0,0:0:0:0:
168,64,22890,1,8,0:0:0:0:
431,218,23101,6,0,P|363:179|196:211,1,250,4|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
410,38,23735,1,8,0:0:0:0:
453,313,23946,1,8,0:0:0:0:
453,313,24052,1,8,0:0:0:0:
453,313,24158,1,8,0:0:0:0:
242,144,24369,1,8,0:0:0:0:
512,44,24580,1,2,0:0:0:0:
149,249,24791,6,0,P|120:148|193:15,1,250,4|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
429,94,25425,1,8,0:0:0:0:
313,366,25636,1,2,0:0:0:0:
313,366,25742,1,0,0:0:0:0:
313,366,25848,1,8,0:0:0:0:
173,106,26059,1,8,0:0:0:0:
476,222,26270,1,8,0:0:0:0:
117,359,26481,6,0,P|86:285|101:174,1,187.500007152558,4|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
395,110,27115,1,0,1:0:0:0:
219,266,27327,1,8,0:0:0:0:
219,266,27432,1,8,0:0:0:0:
219,266,27538,1,8,0:0:0:0:
318,0,27749,1,4,3:0:0:0:
476,222,27960,1,8,0:0:0:0:
432,240,28066,1,8,0:0:0:0:
385,244,28172,1,8,0:0:0:0:
339,236,28277,1,8,0:0:0:0:
302,206,28383,5,4,0:0:0:0:
256,192,28489,12,0,30284,0:0:0:0:

1. 00:21:622 (4,1) - You've probably misplaced NCs here.

1. Some NCs feel a bit out of place in this diff as sometimes you add it after every 2nd downbeat and sometimes you add one every downbeat. Happens, for example, in this section 00:01:341 (1) - and 00:14:862 (1) - . Even though they sound having the same structure, you added a different NC patternization in them.
2. 00:08:946 (2) - Forgot to add a whistle in slider's head.
3. 00:09:580 - What about adding a circle here to map the vocal? It feels a bit empty since you're trying to vary the rhythm but here you have 3 consecutives 1/1 sliders.

1. this diff is really cute

1. 00:20:672 (4) - I don't know if it's just me (or if it was intentional or not) but this drum clap sounds a bit too loud and out of place. If you really wanted to add a drum sample there, would be much better to add a finish instead of a clap.

1. This diff ends before having 30s of play time. You can either remove the last slider and add a spinner like the rest of the mapset or extend it until 00:30:284 -
2. 00:06:622 (2) - Uma coisa meio besta mas esse é o único slider da diff inteira que tá offbeat. Seria melhor se você pudesse deixar ele começando no tick branco igual todo o resto.

1. I can't stop loving your cute symmetryc style

1. I kinda agree with what Mao stated some months ago about the jumps → sliders → jumps → slider thing. I do believe you can emphasize better the vocal to better represent the song like, for example, adding more 1/1 sliders when the vocal extends. But if you really, really, really want to keep this style, you can adjust some jumps to make them more unique in some parts as I'll suggest a few things below.
   
   00:03:876 (1) - You can notice the background sound changes a bit here and would be a nice spot to add a back and forth jump here by moving 00:03:876 (1) - to x:492 y:111.
   
   00:21:622 (1) - Instead of a circle you can add a 1/2 slider so it doesn't feel like it's spamming a lot of jumps. If you want something different you can even add a 3/4 slider there since this section pretty much supports it.
   
   And about the 1/1s you can add some in the beginning to extend and emphasize the vocal a bit more (as I said before) if you want to.

1. 00:24:580 (8,1) - The only thing I could notice while testplaying is that these notes are a bit too far from each other. It's okay to be that far, though, since the song gets stronger there, but you have to suddenly move your cursor to the far left and then loop it. That kinda breaks the flow a bit. Would be better if you could make the movement more intuitive (or cicular) or at least approach these notes a bit more.

Kuron-kun wrote:

hai cutie

[Easy]

1. 00:21:622 (4,1) - You've probably misplaced NCs here. Nah, the nc is at 00:23:101 (1) - because of the different snapping, as suggested by mancuso

[Normal]

1. Some NCs feel a bit out of place in this diff as sometimes you add it after every 2nd downbeat and sometimes you add one every downbeat. Happens, for example, in this section 00:01:341 (1) - and 00:14:862 (1) - . Even though they sound having the same structure, you added a different NC patternization in them. yeah, I made them consistent
2. 00:08:946 (2) - Forgot to add a whistle in slider's head. and I also forgot the clap in the tail lol, fixed
3. 00:09:580 - What about adding a circle here to map the vocal? It feels a bit empty since you're trying to vary the rhythm but here you have 3 consecutives 1/1 sliders. yes, applied

[Hard]

1. this diff is really cute thanks!

[Mk's Light Insane]

1. This diff ends before having 30s of play time. You can either remove the last slider and add a spinner like the rest of the mapset or extend it until 00:30:284 - added spinner
2. 00:06:622 (2) - Uma coisa meio besta mas esse é o único slider da diff inteira que tá offbeat. Seria melhor se você pudesse deixar ele começando no tick branco igual todo o resto. MkGuh said it was for the vocals

[Insane]

1. I can't stop loving your cute symmetryc style UwU

[Maximum Clover Power]

1. 00:24:580 (8,1) - The only thing I could notice while testplaying is that these notes are a bit too far from each other. It's okay to be that far, though, since the song gets stronger there, but you have to suddenly move your cursor to the far left and then loop it. That kinda breaks the flow a bit. Would be better if you could make the movement more intuitive (or cicular) or at least approach these notes a bit more k, I made them closer and rotated a bit the circle to improve flow.

[]
ow o o wo

Kuron-kun wrote:

[Fiery's Extra]

1. I kinda agree with what Mao stated some months ago about the jumps → sliders → jumps → slider thing. I do believe you can emphasize better the vocal to better represent the song like, for example, adding more 1/1 sliders when the vocal extends. But if you really, really, really want to keep this style, you can adjust some jumps to make them more unique in some parts as I'll suggest a few things below. the main issue i have with "adding sliders to better represent the vocals" is that the places i can do those in (save for 00:03:664 (4) - 00:17:186 (4,1) - these two, which i don't really want to do as it'd be inconsistent with the parts afterwards + the fact there's a noticeable sound on the white tick that i don't want to leave unmapped) have a noticeable triple that i don't want to leave unmapped, i.e. 00:20:566 (4,5,1) - here; in general the song doesn't really have much to offer in terms of unique rhythms, it's quite literally just your generic anime girl singing, the only real rhythm differentiations are near the end starting 00:21:622 (1) - here and 00:13:172 (1) - this two second part, which i feel i represented well for rhythm changes since 00:13:172 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - the 1-2s here represent the cymbals and 00:23:101 (1) - the extended sliders here follow the vocals + there's no sound on the white tick that is as noticeable as 00:03:876 (1) - over here. yes, it's boring and not really unique, but i don't really want to undermap the instruments in the song to make it so, if that makes sense
   
   00:03:876 (1) - You can notice the background sound changes a bit here and would be a nice spot to add a back and forth jump here by moving 00:03:876 (1) - to x:492 y:111. it changes a bit which is why it isn't a full-on back and forth, if it was a back and forth it'd have to be basically the same rhythm imo, so i prefer the jumps as they are rn
   
   00:21:622 (1) - Instead of a circle you can add a 1/2 slider so it doesn't feel like it's spamming a lot of jumps. If you want something different you can even add a 3/4 slider there since this section pretty much supports it. ehh, vocals play on the red tick which aren't applicable for instance 00:23:101 (1) - for these rhythms, having the vocal be clickable here makes more sense imo to help introduce the new rhythm (where a triple starts 00:22:256 (4,5,6) - here instead of later) as well as the 1/1 sliders
   
   And about the 1/1s you can add some in the beginning to extend and emphasize the vocal a bit more (as I said before) if you want to. see above

fieryrage wrote:

mancuso_JM_ wrote:

[Fiery's Extra]

1. 00:00:284 (1,2,3,4,5) - Would be better to don't have any jumpy pattern at the beginning because you only have vocals here and the rest of your jumps don't feel really emphasized after this pattern. I constant spacing would be the better option. was told to have these spaced out for consistency by a couple other people, besides they're spaced so small that it really doesn't matter too much imo