Urushi38 wrote:

I hope you'll answer this sure

00:09:272 (1,1,1,1) - why they all have NC? It makes them hard to read and don't do any sense. nc in that part is structured around snapping changes
00:10:791 (3,1,2,1) - what are these notes? why 3,1,2 have same distance and 1,2,1 have different distance? moreever, 00:11:550 (1) - has more quiet sound than 2, but you put in bigger space, what did you tried to express? are both snare + melody, then00:11:550 (1) - follows the increase in melody + change in drum with a drastic spacing increase
00:17:436 (3,4,1,2) - similar with above one. you put 1/4 and 1/2 with same distance. BUT they don't have same sound. idk how this is a problem, the 1/4 spacing is just part of the map design. also 00:17:721 (4,1,2) - are all snares so idk why they "don't have the same sound"???, then 3 is changing drum again
00:19:145 (2,1,2,1,2) - you broke your patterns. If you wanted to express piano sounds, delete NCs and put 00:20:854 (1,2,1) - in same way, didn't you? nc is following the kick-sanre drums, while piano notes starting from 00:19:335 (1) - (cause they don't stand out much for the 2 combos before that) get high spacing, no idea what your problem with this is
00:23:322 (1) - 00:51:613 (6) - This part looks crude, or put without no thinking. You just followed rhythm, not music. If you did, you can explain the reason why you put each part in this way. are you going to question the placement of each individual object? that's pretty pointless. the part focuses on mapping drums/melody/vocals without any filler rhyth, highlighting changes in the song through spacing changes while keeping the maps partially ambiguous 1/1 - 1/2 spacing concept and the aim+uncomfortable movement concept by using corners and high spacing 1/1 a lot. all this while utilizing some basic symmetry and visual spacing to keep objects organized.
also putting low ds on snares whenever possible (no vocal, not after slider) to highlight them with a spacing change that's not a jump, but not when it's the second snare after the low spacing one since low spacing again would lose its effect => high spacing in that case, see 00:31:487 (3,4,5,6) -
01:05:474 (3) - why this has such a big distance than 01:03:955 (3,3) - ? song builds up a lot + cymbal/ending note of the whole buildup?
01:25:411 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - you followed drum sounds, at least we look so. but they don't have same distance although have same sounds. "vocal" = big spacing, drum = "normal" spacing (except the start at 01:25:411 (1,2,1,2) - focuses on melody here to transition/work with the more held vocal), comboing is used to make the repeating kick-snare drum pattern stand out like 00:18:575 -

Thanks anyway same.

Lasse wrote:

bg is cute Doesn't really excuse the fact it's not the right orientation... There are so many other backgrounds that could have worked...

it's true that the hard utilizes some less usual movement stuff, but it's still within limits of a hard diff, even if current hards are really dumbed down in most cases. it lets people experience some movement ideas that are similar to the top difficulty, but much easier to play, which fits the set well. But I wasn't talking about movements. I was talking about associating different rhythm choices with the same visual patterning. The way the map is designed isn't reflective of what a Hard map should entail.

for the "antijumps": no idea what your problem with these is, they are easy to play and used throughout the whole map so people will get used to them. It's the way you set them up. You should have used a different style of patterning and different approach to sliders. Right now you're encouraging players to utilize slider-leniency to play them, which causes the anti-jumps to feel more out of place. I only pointed out the ones at the end because only those ones were the issue, not the rest of the map, or I would have said that as a general issue xP.

the last pattern uses really low spacing which together with the bpm not being very high makes it perfectly. fine I wasn't talking about low spacing... I was talking about the note density. The low spacing also isn't the issue, it's the fact that it creates varied small spacing that is difficult to track because players at this level are not accustomed to making very small stop/go type movements. The issue is movement in this case because it is demanding something that requires precision. The spike in density is another issue in itself.

Lasse wrote:

for the "antijumps": no idea what your problem with these is, they are easy to play and used throughout the whole map so people will get used to them.

Monstrata wrote:

Stuff like: 00:14:968 (8,1) - Is hard to predict due to the similarity in pattern. But the rhythm clearly shifts.the way it is set up makes it pretty simple to understand
01:15:727 (4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - This is even worse, because it's basically [...] ??? it uses the same concept as all other intense parts, 1/1
are stacks and 1/2 are spaced or overlapped

Another thing that you wouldn't expect on Hard is anti-jumps like: 01:25:411 (1,2,1,2,3,1) - These force players to suddenly slow down their movement immensely what is the problem with that though. It's easier to play than using high spacing since at this point players will be really used to them and still makes the vocals there stand out due to the change in movement from before. 00:19:335 (1,2,3) - basically introduces the same thing early into the map , which really doesn't fit especially since you've set up these patterns to encourage players to take advantage of slider-head leniency. 01:28:829 (2,3,4) - Is what you should have expected on a Hard.

01:29:778 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5) - Variable spacing is also really confusing, especially since the movement is on red ticks how do ticks matter lol. the whole pattern starts on a red tick and follows the red tick vocals which makes it very easy to comprehend . Not to mention they cause players to have to make really small movements in between 2>3 and 4>5 which makes aiming even worse. You can't expect Hard players to aim in the middle of the pattern, They will try and click the middle of each circle. If you look at some replays you'll see this really slight movement.

Not to mention, 01:30:158 (2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5) - is really dense for a Hard too... I mean, 6 1/2 circles in a row followed by a 5-note stream. This is not something you'd expect on a Hard either... explained before

But I wasn't talking about movements. I was talking about associating different rhythm choices with the same visual patterning.

The low spacing also isn't the issue, it's the fact that it creates varied small spacing that is difficult to track because players at this level are not accustomed to making very small stop/go type movements.

Lasse wrote:

for the "antijumps": no idea what your problem with these is, they are easy to play and used throughout the whole map so people will get used to them.

the last pattern uses really low spacing which together with the bpm not being very high makes it perfectly. fine

Pachiru wrote:

just rename bonsai's insane by hard and problem solved

Kisses wrote:

Pachiru wrote:

just rename bonsai's insane by hard and problem solved

Seeing as that diff is composed as an Insane I don't see it was appropriate for players to have that as the next stepping stone from the normal diff

Lasse wrote:

Monstrata wrote:

Stuff like: 00:14:968 (8,1) - Is hard to predict due to the similarity in pattern. But the rhythm clearly shifts.the way it is set up makes it pretty simple to understand Again, not a concept thats appropriate on a Hard difficulty. Your argument makes sense for an Insane.
You can't expect Hard-level players to be able to follow this concept. Again, look at some of the replays, Many people who are getting B ranks mess up here and other parts I mention.
01:15:727 (4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - This is even worse, because it's basically [...] ??? it uses the same concept as all other intense parts, 1/1
are stacks and 1/2 are spaced or overlapped Again, not a concept that's appropriate on a Hard. These ones are especially poor because of how close the different rhythms are to each other. You have 1/2 stacks and 1/1 stacks within one beat of each other which is what causes the confusion. You're associating two different rhythms with a very similar gameplay element.

Another thing that you wouldn't expect on Hard is anti-jumps like: 01:25:411 (1,2,1,2,3,1) - These force players to suddenly slow down their movement immensely what is the problem with that though. It's easier to play than using high spacing since at this point players will be really used to them and still makes the vocals there stand out due to the change in movement from before. 00:19:335 (1,2,3) - basically introduces the same thing early into the map , What is the problem with that? The fact that they are anti-jumps that go against the intended movement you've set up for players. It's very uncomfortable due to the sudden dip in movement. I didn't say you needed to use "high spacing" you can just use regular DS too... which really doesn't fit especially since you've set up these patterns to encourage players to take advantage of slider-head leniency. 01:28:829 (2,3,4) - Is what you should have expected on a Hard.

01:29:778 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5) - Variable spacing is also really confusing, especially since the movement is on red ticks how do ticks matter lol. the whole pattern starts on a red tick and follows the red tick vocals which makes it very easy to comprehend . The ticks matter because your pattern introduces a shift in polarity from white tick emphasis, which is what you would expect on a Hard, to red tick emphasis,
which is very unusual. However, that was just a small issue. The much bigger issues are the low, and variable spacing jumps, and the wide angles you've set up here. You are forcing Hard-level players to make very small movements and increase their movements on red ticks which is not a usual mode of emphasis. Additionally you're introducing wide angles, and wide angles + extremely small spacings is already too difficult imo. And even then you haven't addressed the note density issue of having a 6-circle clicking pattern into another 5-note stream. This is overkill. Not to mention they cause players to have to make really small movements in between 2>3 and 4>5 which makes aiming even worse. You can't expect Hard players to aim in the middle of the pattern, They will try and click the middle of each circle. If you look at some replays you'll see this really slight movement.

Not to mention, 01:30:158 (2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5) - is really dense for a Hard too... I mean, 6 1/2 circles in a row followed by a 5-note stream. This is not something you'd expect on a Hard either... explained beforeYou didn't "explain before"... But just in case you did,
I clarified my view a bit better above ^.

But I wasn't talking about movements. I was talking about associating different rhythm choices with the same visual patterning.

The 1/2 and 1/1 use different patterning though, as mentioned above They may seem different if you are accustomed to patterns like these,
but they are sill very similar to Hard-level players.

The low spacing also isn't the issue, it's the fact that it creates varied small spacing that is difficult to track because players at this level are not accustomed to making very small stop/go type movements.

If they manage to fc this far into the map they should be accustomed enough to this type of movement tbh If they manage to fc this far into the map, their skill level is above a Hard. The entire argument here is that this difficulty is not appropriate to be called "Hard". In any case, explained why these patterns are not good in more detail since you don't seem to want to discuss the individual points I made...


@nino: you're way above the target audience of these difficulties and played them with hddt so lol
would be the same as me posting these (1, 2) to state the opposite, when it doesn't really have any relevance
naming has been explained in depth above

Natsu wrote:

Bonsai's diff has little spacing

sahuang wrote:

hard insane harder insane is so weird lol
i wonder why bonsai didnt wish to change his diffname to harder or light insane

Karen wrote:

old bg was better