Zexion wrote:

OH HEY I FELL ASLEEP BUT HERE I AM YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Vote: Hika

I'm pretty sure you're mafia because you didn't like my bastard game!

(Semi-drunk post will come up with more later)

ALSO I JUST NOTICED BEEBOY YOU STOLE MY RULESET, NOT THAT I CAN COMPLAIN BECAUSE I STOLE IT TOO BUT I WANTED TO MENTION IT.

Zexion wrote:

Wait it was actually my role PM's but whatever.

johnmedina999 wrote:

Foxtrot wrote:

RVS is always grand, isn't it

May I ask what RVS is?

Random Voting Stage

Friendly suggestion: read the announcement in the top of this forum! Lots of basic stuff is explained there.

Zexion wrote:

Too soon to be wallin'. Too much newbhunting and too little scumhunting.

Lincolm wrote:

That's logical answer. And no, I just ask if you get red or green colour, hoping you to answer red somehow.

Well-written flavour, though.

Lincolm plz, even the role PM's are up.

johnmedina999 wrote:

I purposely did not give out any information because there was no real reason to. If someone asks for your credit card info, would you give it to them on the spot? I thought so. Also, I voted for him because RVS: there was no one to really vote for, no evidence to analyze yet, but the second he started fishing for an easy noob kill, it seems suspicious to me, and I voted.

Foxtrot, you confuse me. Hopping onto the first bandwagon that seemed plausible would be a scum thing to do (redo and Hika bandwagons are based on nothing), but I see you are starting to hop off it with your post, and going more neutral. My instincts tell me this is not a scum move, but there is also the possibility of you being Mafia and Lincolm being your partner: as soon as you saw Zekks thinking about hopping on the bandwagon, you saw that your partner being killed might be a certain possibility, and you hopped off the wagon to avoid that. That seems suspicious to me.

I still hold my vote against Lincolm, though, because even if going after fresh meat is a plausible thing to do, trying to create a bandwagon is scummy to me.

It's way too soon to be assuming bandwagons mean something. I've seen games when players get to L-1 and it doesn't mean anything in particular. Also why do you assume rEdo and Hika wagons are "based on nothing"? Have you ever asked the reasons why is that?

Zexion wrote:

johnmedina999 wrote:

Well, I guess I meant nothing in this game. The first vote was for redo by Hika with no reasoning or previous posts, and you voted for Hika because she "didn't like my bastard game", which (to me) is not based on anything. Sure, cross-game interactions are valuable, but the reasoning isn't there. Now that you're here, may I ask if you have a different reason for voting for Hika?

My vote may have been RVS, but that doesn't mean I keep it for the same reason.

I missed Dawnsday image-posts.

This is going to be a fun game.

Zexion wrote:

Dawnsday wrote:

My entire opinion on the entire "PM color" thing is that no matter what John responded (even red?), it couldn't be taken at face value ever. He responds green? Duh he's scum, or town. Leaving you with nothing. He responds with nor green nor red? Great, he's given you nothing. He responds red? He can simply claim he was trying to see how far you'd push him as a newb and how devoted you'd be to taking such info at face value. (Though I'm not sure I'd even consider this a possbility in hindsight, just pointing out that even in the most extreme of responses it could be played off.) therefore I think the entire concept of asking for his PM color was flawed in response.

I think you're just overanalyzing a bad newb-test Lincolm did.

Zexion wrote:

Sorry, a bit disconnected right now.

So what's the case on Zekks? Besides their bold claim about mafia to fear them which is pretty null right now. In any case, after a statement like that I definitely wouldn't lynch them today.

Zexion wrote:

Hika wrote:

I'm willing to stand my ground on voting an anti town but anti town > scum so we need to get off zekks a bit.

oooh what? Pretty sure we win if we go the other way. A player may be anti-town, but still town after all.

Hika wrote:

There's no point in letting Zekks go off easy so pressure him harder to see what he's all about.
@Zekks: what da fuck u think you doing playing the way you're playing

Maybe it's just me, but if Zekks really meant what he wrote (and it was not some funny rvs stuff) then there's not much more to explain. I totally agree with the second phrase tho.

Zexion wrote:

Phoneposting on train. Note to all : I usually have time to check the game once a day due to college and work, I can't be more active than that but that's mt usual activity in mafia games.

I don't really like the sudden abraker wagon (self votes suck but being derrotostnisn't a scumtell by itself, tho it's very anti-town and I don't see how some people are sayin he's helping town) but I'm more concerned about the Zekks one from before, I'll reread stuff when I get home.

Zexion wrote:

@EVERYONE: before we go foward, I like to ask one thing.

Do you understand how power roles are asigned in Matrix9? I'm asking this because there was a MASSIVE confusion last game and that caused a lot of needless debate. (If you don't understand please ask now, if you do, no need to reply to this)

----------------

So... foxtrot was the first one to vote Zekks after he claimed no mafia can stop him. I'm really interested why he considered so much about this being scum indicative, these kind of claims can't be resolved D1 because there's just too much risk. Him not answering questions is a totally different matter tho. Are the rest of such wagon just oportunistic?

Hika wrote:

Also Zex, when i said anti town > scum, I meant it as a way like "sure he's anti town to me right now but I'd rather not vote for his lynch when we could be scum hunting"

hope that clears it up.

Oh okay, I do agree with that.

Dawnsday wrote:

Hika wrote:

Also, self voting strategy shouldn't be mentioned here. Maybe google it cause we're currently in game and dont want mafia doing anything with that information.

Strikes me as a LAMIST post mainly due to the "dont want mafia doing anything with that information". Just feels like such a weird addition to the sentence in general, ending at "we're currently in game" would've been acceptable but the last bit seems to be tacked on solely to remind us you're not mafia.

AFAIK Hika has never been too expresive, she usually goes with only a few lines per posts not explaing ideas a lot. I do agree with that statement anyways: if you have a plan which involves self-voting, you have to go to the end otherwise it will be for nothing. Same goes with reaction testing or stuff like that.

@John, @Dawnsday: why is Foxtrot so town? Going through her ISO shows little content in her lasts posts, last thing was the accusation to Zekks which I kinda understand but I don't see how she "analyses players very well". I do agree with she moving the game forward.

Zexion wrote:

Foxtrot wrote:

Zexion wrote:

So... foxtrot was the first one to vote Zekks after he claimed no mafia can stop him. I'm really interested why he considered so much about this being scum indicative, these kind of claims can't be resolved D1 because there's just too much risk. Him not answering questions is a totally different matter tho. Are the rest of such wagon just oportunistic?

I'm probably shooting myself in the foot by latching on Zekks's claim, but it's hard because there's not much content going on. But what other choice do I have, especially on D1? Like I said, I voted Zekks to get a reaction out of them but I got nothing. I might back down if it wasn't for the fact that a lot of new players tend to lurk the game when they have a mafia role, probably because it's a bit harder to play with a role like that.

And abraker is already voting for himself for the sake of PoE and he genuinely thinks that's gonna help town in the long run, but that's just dumb. It's not worth losing two town people over this.

Unless he wants to make us think that he's town, so it'd make sense if he's scum trying to gain our trust by doing something reckless,, claiming that it's for the greater good of town. That's why he's not backing down. That possibility doesn't sound too unrealistic. I'm glad people are wary of his actions.

Yeah, there wasn't much more for content progression but you repeated the same thing... quite a few times. Your vote was kind of right tho, because that brought up the stronger claim. I definitely won't be up for a Zekks lynch right now, because new players also tend to be intimidated of the on-going discussion, there's a lot of question directed to him unaswered tho, but until he comes back, I can't be sure if he is still dodging them.

I'm still not sure if Dawn's vote on Zekks after just was oportunistic or a well thought-pressure plan.

Zexion wrote:

johnmedina999 wrote:

Zexion wrote:

@John, @Dawnsday: why is Foxtrot so town? Going through her ISO shows little content in her lasts posts, last thing was the accusation to Zekks which I kinda understand but I don't see how she "analyses players very well". I do agree with she moving the game forward.

By good analyses I was thinking of back in the beginning of the game, but you're right about recent posts not having much content. As for why I think she's town...her posts don't seem scummy, maybe she's pushing the Zekks train too hard after most decided to leave it for now (most of her longer, more recent posts have something to do with Zekks), but again, she doesn't really seem like she's mafia.

I'm curious about this. If foxtrot is town for her analytical posts, then Lincolm should also fall into that category (specially for this post, but you are (or were?) reading him as scum. Your reads aren't consistent.

johnmedina999 wrote:

It may just be my lack of experience, but I think Lincolm and abraker have been 1v1-ing for far too long, it's starting to look like bussing to me. Ever since this post, where Lincolm invokes abraker out of the blue, and the two start arguing. This wasn't suspicious back then, but certainly looks suspicious now; Lincolm might say that he was one of the only people active at the time and that it was random, but there was redo and Zekks to ask as well; why would he specifically choose abraker to invoke?

It doesn't help that almost all of both abraker's and Lincolm's posts have been fighting with each other, either. Either they're bussing each other, or one of them is town taking advantage of the situation.

I don't really think both of them are scum, their dicussion seems to be a natural progression of the accusations, I mean, -it could be-, but I don't really see something indicative of bussing.

Zexion wrote:

johnmedina999 wrote:

Zexion wrote:

I'm curious about this. If foxtrot is town for her analytical posts, then Lincolm should also fall into that category (specially for this post) but you are (or were?) reading him as scum. Your reads aren't consistent.

Well, it is true that both are very analytic, but Lincolm is still on my scum radar for the 1v1 claim I posted earlier; even so, his last post and his overall confidence are making me change my mind ever so slightly, although the latter might just be good acting, and the former might be me being a n00b. I'll have to wait and see.

But you didn't say that on your original read list, that only makes me wonder if you just arbitraly decided Lincolm was scum.

Hika wrote:

I dont want scum to come along and 'accidentally' hammer abraker also. Would be dumb for anyone else to vote him without a complete town decision. hope you see where im coming from

I often don't consider this as a valid reason for holding a vote. L-1 is where magic happens, but yeah, its debatable whether or not put someone at L-1 on a newbie game because of people not often realizing how dangerous quickhammers are. However, considering the deadline, I think it's not THAT risky to put someone at L-1.

Zexion wrote:

Lota of ahit happened and I was unable to post.

I'll catch up in a few hours.

Zexion wrote:

@Mod: please put the deadline in the topic?

Zexion wrote:

First off, I would like to sincerly apologize but some real shit happened real life and I was unable to come and post something significant. I know activity is kinda low right now and I don't want to hurt this game at all.

The ammount of wallposts coming from abraker is overwhelming. But I deeply disagree with one of tha main things you're doing: looking for particular scum/town/null posts. Any good player can make sometimes go anyway, It's much better to see them as a whole rather than just classifying each one, I've seen pro scum-player making ONLY town-posts, which is suspicious by itself.

Refer to:

Ace Timing wrote:

With the logic of "scum won't do scummy things," your scumhunting is extremely limited. Scumhunting is a townie action, and thus it's scum's prerogative to fake doing so; fake scumhunting is inherently scummy and it stops there. You're bending over backwards to tell me some irrelevant method of scumhunting from you that isn't applicable here.

Also I didn't want to point out Zekks could have said that because of doctor. Yeah, another reason not to vote him.

Hika wrote:

Thanks for letting me know your opinion on that @Zex.
I might just be very cautious about it is all. I just had an issue a few years back playing an I accidentally hammered without noticing VC. I'm just very curious when it comes to that and I can even link that game if I need to.

Is this sarcasm?

Hika wrote:

I don't understand what's so hard to get with me wanting vote counts

It's lazy. But understandable. And it's getting a bit old.

--------------------------------------------

I'm in a bit of a hurry right now so here are my reads:

Town:

1. Ace: care-free attitude (often goes with "I have nothing to hide") and consistent posts. This mainly goes because I was already townreading dawnsday before and I'm going to keep this up atleast for D1.

Null-Town:

1. abraker: extremely analyitical posts and has put a lot of effort to come to logical conclusions. I don't agree to all his methods, but I'm inclined to believe there are town intentions coming from here.
2. Lincolm: pretty much the same as abraker, tho I'm mostly confused about his intentions. Has been defensive, but that isn't scum-aligned per-se.

Null:

1. Aomi/Zekks: I'm not voting this guy D1. Period.
2. rEdo: sure, eloquent posts and has driven the game forward. But most of the question he is making are not being followed-up by a conclusion or something. I am still waiting to see what is he going to do will all that information.
3. foxtrot: placeholder, not decided yet.

Null-Scum:

1. john: inconsistent reads and often repeats information in order to stay relevant.
2. Hika: I see a serious lack of interest here. She has held out her vote for most of the game only because of VC issues, as I said before it's okay to be afraid for a quickhammer on newbie games but you also can warn about L-1 and ask for intent for hammerings. 90% of newbie town-players are scared to mess up and be read as scum, so it's extremely unlikely to see a quickhammer that's not scum related on these games.

I'll be back before the deadline, if I only knew what time that is...

Zexion wrote:

It's literally impossible for Zekks' post to be bluff or a reaction test. HE WOULD HAVE FOLLOWED IT INSTEAD OF DISSAPEARING.

Besides that kind of move is pretty hard to do for a newbie (tho he may not be it).

Zexion wrote:

Man if this guy just threw that and get away we may have to inagurate a black list here.

Also I'm making another post while writing this.

Zexion wrote:

@Mod: we really need a votecount to move some points of the game forward.

I like Hika's points on foxtrot. In fact, I was about to place foxtrot on my null-scum too. Seems to overly explain herself over and over again.

abraker wrote:

Hika's need for VC is less scummy than Ace's refusal to help explain why Hika is a townread by requesting a VC himself. Sounds like a setup for something. Also considering how Dawnsday previously decided to push for zekks lynch, there is def something up. My vote and read is justified. Dawn/Ace is scum.

Hold on. What makes you think Ace has a real reason for waiting for a VC or it's just something to taunt Hika's way of playing? About Dawnsday push's on Zekks, I thought someone said it was genuine due to being few minutes after that post? Now it's scum indicative? Foxtrot may as well be scum for that same last reason. Your conclusion is quite hasty.

abraker wrote:

It doesn't take a genius to know what his comments might imply, especially after Hika mentioned that it could be a hint toward a PR here. Zexion admitted he had the same PR as me in mind. No point in hiding it. It could have been a carefree behavior from scum, but since zekks got replaced, I doubt that care free behavior was a tactic. Using a dumb tactic on purpose and getting replaced later for inactivity sounds illogical to me. I wish I could ask zekks if he thinks doctor can vote self earlier when there was less suspicion of it being PR, but too late for that.

It's definitely bad to point out so much evidence for zekks being doctor since that would make aomi the NK candidate #1, but it best we accept the fact zekks goofed up and work from there.

Hika wrote:

Wait, may I see proof where someone said something about zekks being a doctor?
I only mentioned PR because of what Zekks said.

I didn't mention what kind of PR bc the setup is random...

[b]
There's literally no point in discussing this further.[/b] Discussing Zekks/Aomi's role will not change anything for the day 1 lynch.

Zexion wrote:

How much time have we got for deciding?

Zexion wrote:

abraker wrote:

Zexion wrote:

Hold on. What makes you think Ace has a real reason for waiting for a VC or it's just something to taunt Hika's way of playing? About Dawnsday push's on Zekks, I thought someone said it was genuine due to being few minutes after that post? Now it's scum indicative? Foxtrot may as well be scum for that same last reason. Your conclusion is quite hasty.

The way he did it though. He did it is a taunt and as a "no" to me in regards on why he thinks Hika is town. About the dawnsday's push on zekks, it's just my view on it.

About Ace: Okay, but that's just your interpretation. Maybe you're just exaggerating.
About Dawnsday: Right, if you didn't consider it a "good move" back then I have no problems with that suspicion. It's just natural to think both.

Foxtrot wrote:

Zexion wrote:

Seems to overly explain herself over and over again.

I have nothing new to offer and I've been insanely busy lately so I can't help but do that, sorry

These kind of posts make me wonder how to reply. I understand having a busy life, but it's better just to say "prod dodge" rather than repeating stuff, trust me, it goes a long way in mafia games.

Also why people keep saying "I can't read Zexion because he posts too little". Stuff like this often happens in mafia, and we can't really let scum slip past the inactivity excuse.