idk why I play with newbies bc you guys miss the point of playing mafia
The whole point is to AS A TEAM, come up with a lynch before deadline, otherwise we might get rekt AS A TEAM

And it's more suspicious that three people are still on my case about it

More than likely one of you have to be scum

Ace Timing wrote:

It's really not though

Ace Timing wrote:

It's really not though

Except it is. Needing a vote count before giving reads implies that the reads are based on who has votes or not. Following me so far?
That means that if someone (Hika's partner) has too many votes for her taste, she would read that person as town: if not, and the person was safe for the time being, it would be OK to read that person as scum.

Hika wrote:

idk why I play with newbies bc you guys miss the point of playing mafia
The whole point is to AS A TEAM, come up with a lynch before deadline, otherwise we might get rekt AS A TEAM

That's exactly what we're doing, if you haven't noticed.

Hika wrote:

And it's more suspicious that three people are still on my case about it

Just because people have their guns pointed at you doesn't mean that no one is playing as a team; three people have you under their radar, while a couple more have their eye on you. Why are you getting paranoid now that the day is almost over?

Unvote
Vote: Hika

Ace Timing wrote:

the hammer isn't the only aspect of the vote count relevant to reads. Sometimes a VC doesn't make sense with your reads, and a readover is necessary.

Hika wrote:

I don't understand what's so hard to get with me wanting vote counts

As you are going through reading the posts, you can keep track of the vote count on your own. It's a bold action separate from much else. If you are lazy to do that much, then my understanding is that you just skimmed through posts and picked whatever best fit your needs. It would have been faster to go through the posts and do a vote count yourself than wait a few days for bboy. I went through all 18 (now 19) pages at least 6 times in the past few hours while compiling player data. It's not that hard.


I am still going through Foxtrot posts, trying to find her reads. Zex doesn't seem to have made any reads, but I am yet to go through and search for his posts specifically.

You're comparing my reads to my slot's earlier reads, which is NAI at best. You're forcing a connection where there isn't one.

Ok, fair

Ace Timing wrote:

I'm not going to do that. That wouldn't help you at all.

Any thoughts about any player help, especially if that player is self. Was worth the try anyway, didn't expect much after Foxtrot declined.

Ace Timing wrote:

With the logic of "scum won't do scummy things," your scumhunting is extremely limited. Scumhunting is a townie action, and thus it's scum's prerogative to fake doing so; fake scumhunting is inherently scummy and it stops there. You're bending over backwards to tell me some irrelevant method of scumhunting from you that isn't applicable here.

My logic isn't "scum won't do scummy things". Anything scummy is instantly on radar, and it's the easiest to pick up upon. It's townie actions which are hard to decipher because both town and scum would do it. Because those actions can be either scum or town, and I evaluate both possibilities and draw conclusions. I am yet to post a grand total analysis of all major player actions with both sides to each action, but it is in the works. Players that played with me before can vouch that I am not bullshitting about making it.

Ace Timing wrote:

>Well why is Hika your town read? It still puts me off that hika needed vote count for reads. Hammer or no hammer, vote count should be an honest opinion. If the person needs one vote to lynch and you think that person is scum, you need to say it so that person and other can respond to it.
the hammer isn't the only aspect of the vote count relevant to reads. Sometimes a VC doesn't make sense with your reads, and a readover is necessary.

Also this is missing an answer to why you think Hika is town. It just has a counter toward my argument that Hika might be scum for the weird VC request.

I'm not paranoid, I'm just trying to figure out how today is going to end with 20 hrs left

playing osu! mafia is bad because we always tend to panic our votes which is why I kept stressing the deadline so much before.

Hika wrote:

playing osu! mafia is bad because we always tend to panic our votes which is why I kept stressing the deadline so much before.

Hika wrote:

I'm not paranoid, I'm just trying to figure out how today is going to end with 20 hrs left

Oh it will def end with panic. Given the activity, there won't be enough time to decide on anything. At least a few Zex posts will be a miracle, I have yet to take a good look at Foxtrot, and it will be a few hours before time is up when I post my compiled analysis, giving others little time to respond.

johnmedina999 wrote:

Except it is. Needing a vote count before giving reads implies that the reads are based on who has votes or not. Following me so far?
That means that if someone (Hika's partner) has too many votes for her taste, she would read that person as town: if not, and the person was safe for the time being, it would be OK to read that person as scum.

>implying that post hoc ergo propter hoc
lmao

abraker wrote:

My logic isn't "scum won't do scummy things". Anything scummy is instantly on radar, and it's the easiest to pick up upon. It's townie actions which are hard to decipher because both town and scum would do it. Because those actions can be either scum or town, and I evaluate both possibilities and draw conclusions. I am yet to post a grand total analysis of all major player actions with both sides to each action, but it is in the works. Players that played with me before can vouch that I am not bullshitting about making it.

I lie eagerly in wait.

abraker wrote:

Ace Timing wrote:

>Well why is Hika your town read? It still puts me off that hika needed vote count for reads. Hammer or no hammer, vote count should be an honest opinion. If the person needs one vote to lynch and you think that person is scum, you need to say it so that person and other can respond to it.
the hammer isn't the only aspect of the vote count relevant to reads. Sometimes a VC doesn't make sense with your reads, and a readover is necessary.

Also this is missing an answer to why you think Hika is town. It just has a counter toward my argument that Hika might be scum for the weird VC request.

I know that.

I'm waiting for the VC to give my read on Hika

same

I am slightly disappointed nobody is trying to pick apart my player ISO posts other than the players they were made for. Not even trying to understand my reasoning concerning why I think about someone. Ace even skipped my questioning of town read and proved it was on purpose. I am getting the impression you guys take town reads to player's character and draw conclusions from them without question. Lincolm is the only one that provided reasons for his reads here, and I don't see anyone trying to pick those apart. I might be hypocritical of me since I didn't either, but I am steadily working towards picking apart players' ISO. I already did Hika, rEdo, and Dawn/Ace. Next is Zex, and I'm afraid that's all I would have time for.

Any way, It pisses me off and I don't like that I doing all the effort trying to understand player actions while others are trying to connect the dots at face value. Ace's rejection to give reasoning to why he thinks Hika is town just tips that scale all too much for me. I am trying to understand and be open and all I am given is the tip of the iceberg as if that's perfectly normal.

Ace's request of VC is further proof of that and looks like a "fuck you" to me.

unvote
vote: Ace Timing


Let me just post what I have of my compilation now because it will be too late later or I might be lynched for changing my vote before I get to. I'll repost an updated version once I get around it.

wtf
you're saying dawnsday suspected zekks was a medic and thought he would doc himself?
1. doctors can't do that on this site
2. there's daychat, ergo his whole team would be on that wagon.

lol you've got me rolling on this whole thing
dont do that to someone my sides are gone
im in actual pain pls

Hika wrote:

Just because people have their guns pointed at you doesn't mean that no one is playing as a team; three people have you under their radar, while a couple more have their eye on you. Why are you getting paranoid now that the day is almost over?

I already explained why I think your behavior is suspicious too many times and you just instantly assume I meant your VOTE. Why do your READS need the VC? It is suspicious that your reads are gonna be based on the VC because then you can easily target people who are about to get lynched off/threaten your role. And you're getting too heated up about people being weary of your actions, even though you were L-4 at the time (now L-3 I believe, and Ace voted for you with no reason but that's fine for you? Even after RSV was long over? Even though he voted for you, he seems rather eager to go out of his way to stand up with you, which makes NO SENSE.)

Yeah, votes are based on a TEAM CHOICE, whereas reads are individual analysis of other players. Now, do you see why it'd be weird to ask for VC just for reads, when they're supposed to be based on what people say during daychat? You and Ace are the most suspicious people to me right now because you both are unwilling to cooperate with rest of town.

No, I'm not gonna let go of this because your behavior is too suspicious to look over.

Unvote
vote: Hika

On john:
RE: event #1:
lol wtf? There's no AI answer to this question, and there isn't supposed to be one. There's like 20 different reasons why any person as any alignment would choose any colour. You even admitted it saying "scum would give an indefinite answer, but so would town, so this is town." You can't even say someone would noob slip like that. Only time you would tell the truth as scum in that scenario would be if you legit had the IQ of a wet towel.

On zekks:
RE: event #2:
let me preface this by saying WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING FISHING FOR PRS. Beyond that, he's obviously fucking joking, and scum are equally liable to fuck around as town. This is another NAI point.

On lincolm:
??? What radioactive questioning? Are you just saying that he tried to scumhunt but acted hella scummy? How's that town?

On Zexion:
Are you just saying he wouldn't lurk as scum? I've played with scum!zex and town!zex, and they both occasionally lurk. I don't see why you're townreading this for literally no reason.

All of these have shitty base assumptions and confusing reasoning. How well did this work in your last game?

pedit: jeez you guys are actually doing it unvote: hika

Lota of ahit happened and I was unable to post.

I'll catch up in a few hours.

@Mod: please put the deadline in the topic?

I just woke up... I need to do some shopping, then I'll check in.

First off, I would like to sincerly apologize but some real shit happened real life and I was unable to come and post something significant. I know activity is kinda low right now and I don't want to hurt this game at all.

The ammount of wallposts coming from abraker is overwhelming. But I deeply disagree with one of tha main things you're doing: looking for particular scum/town/null posts. Any good player can make sometimes go anyway, It's much better to see them as a whole rather than just classifying each one, I've seen pro scum-player making ONLY town-posts, which is suspicious by itself.

Refer to:

Ace Timing wrote:

With the logic of "scum won't do scummy things," your scumhunting is extremely limited. Scumhunting is a townie action, and thus it's scum's prerogative to fake doing so; fake scumhunting is inherently scummy and it stops there. You're bending over backwards to tell me some irrelevant method of scumhunting from you that isn't applicable here.

Also I didn't want to point out Zekks could have said that because of doctor. Yeah, another reason not to vote him.

Hika wrote:

Thanks for letting me know your opinion on that @Zex.
I might just be very cautious about it is all. I just had an issue a few years back playing an I accidentally hammered without noticing VC. I'm just very curious when it comes to that and I can even link that game if I need to.

Is this sarcasm?

Hika wrote:

I don't understand what's so hard to get with me wanting vote counts

It's lazy. But understandable. And it's getting a bit old.

--------------------------------------------

I'm in a bit of a hurry right now so here are my reads:

Town:

1. Ace: care-free attitude (often goes with "I have nothing to hide") and consistent posts. This mainly goes because I was already townreading dawnsday before and I'm going to keep this up atleast for D1.

Null-Town:

1. abraker: extremely analyitical posts and has put a lot of effort to come to logical conclusions. I don't agree to all his methods, but I'm inclined to believe there are town intentions coming from here.
2. Lincolm: pretty much the same as abraker, tho I'm mostly confused about his intentions. Has been defensive, but that isn't scum-aligned per-se.

Null:

1. Aomi/Zekks: I'm not voting this guy D1. Period.
2. rEdo: sure, eloquent posts and has driven the game forward. But most of the question he is making are not being followed-up by a conclusion or something. I am still waiting to see what is he going to do will all that information.
3. foxtrot: placeholder, not decided yet.

Null-Scum:

1. john: inconsistent reads and often repeats information in order to stay relevant.
2. Hika: I see a serious lack of interest here. She has held out her vote for most of the game only because of VC issues, as I said before it's okay to be afraid for a quickhammer on newbie games but you also can warn about L-1 and ask for intent for hammerings. 90% of newbie town-players are scared to mess up and be read as scum, so it's extremely unlikely to see a quickhammer that's not scum related on these games.

I'll be back before the deadline, if I only knew what time that is...

@zex, that def wasn't sarcasm

I'm not going to be talking about my intention to see VC anymore cause I've already said everything I needed to say about it/ had to say about it.

Going to drop some reads here when I see deadline come up.

Hello, getting started here. I've read the thread and so far my reads are:

Town:

Foxtrot - Constant interaction in the game and every post seems to be either scumhunting or pressing for information, her interactions with Hika give me the vibes that she's town quite heavily.
Ace Timing - His posts are very relaxed yet he's posting quite sincere townie agenda stuff. He's grilling people where they seem to make illogical conclusions (see: his reactions to abraker's imagepost)

Neut-town:

Lincolm - From what I've read this guy is trying to actively schumhunt. There're some posts of his and some lines that really baffle me and that keeps him as a null/null-town for day 1.

Neutral:

abraker - constant wall posts are nice, he's taken the liberty of going through the ISO's and pointing out where he believes things are wrong. I disagree with a lot of stuff said within them as he takes every post as an individual rather than looking at the bigger picture on display

Zexion - A lack of activity makes Zexion hard to read. What he does post though is largely town motivated so I'm tempted to move him to neut-town

John - John just posts a whole lot of nothing really. His vote on my one current scumread (Hika) however prevents me from being entirely skeptical on him. He's probably just a lost townie in my eyes.

Null-scum:

Hika - As everyone's said. Hika's posts to me seem largely iffy and I would vote except for the fact I believe Hika is L-1 currently? I'm actually torn on how I perceive the constant asks for a VC, recklessness is more townie imo and caution is more scum. I'm not saying that as a definitive but as an observation after multiple readings of mafia games/mafia theory.

I'm extremely tired so I'll respond in due time. If you have any questions or want my opinion on whatever please let me know. I'd like to try and pick up what Zekks didn't even try to.

Aomi: you're sheeping everyone else imo

can you point out my posts that you dont like that i haven't explained myself personally
i would hate to accuse you of sheeping

@Fox, HELL YEAH I'M HEATED UP BC NO ONE IS TRYING TO SEE WHAT I'M SAYING
I'm not being paranoid, I'm trying to defend myself. I see I have a lot of votes on me and I should change that?? You've literally ignored most of my posts except the one's where I'm asking for VC. I only said I needed VC for my reads ONE TIME, and that wasn't to verify my reads, it was to see who the hell I can pressure because it was the most accurate thing to do at the time. If that's not clear to you idk what the hell is. You're acting more scummy than the other people voting me.

Foxtrot wrote:

(now L-3 I believe, and Ace voted for you with no reason but that's fine for you? Even after RSV was long over? Even though he voted for you, he seems rather eager to go out of his way to stand up with you, which makes NO SENSE.)

1.) I was fine with him voting me because he was a replacement that didn't even read anything when he got in the game. Did you even see what he said when he voted me lol? You play too seriously for your own good and it's not fluent in terms of how you're typing.
2.) Ace isn't my scum read because he can explain what I'm trying to do better than I can. I take kindly to him defending me as I can't do it myself. Scum woudn't even dare defend their partner so openly, so you're making a connection where there isn't one. If he was bothering you so much why not vote him? It would make him look more scummy than me, no?

To add to that last question, he looks like an easier target does he not? That is, if he's defending me so much.

Real quick too, bc I see everyone saying "why are you so lazy and always asking for VC"
I don't play on my laptop because I'm never home, always working, so I use my phone. I have issues typing all the time and everyone who's played with me knows that. It's just so crazy how I have to explain every single post why I cant format, do wall posts, etcetc since navigating on my phone is a hassle.

Vote: Foxtrot

doing this b4 I leave

Oh yeah, I know I'm posting a lot but I'm starting my day, grabbing food, and getting my nails done which takes a few hours.

I'm going to also add, Fox, you should honestly read over your ISO as abraker says and get back to us. You're playing badly without even realizing it. You've let up a few scumslips.

Ace Timing wrote:

I'm waiting for the VC to give my read on Hika

I refuse to believe that this was a legit reason to hold out on reads for you. I have dropped my shit after seeing this, and put out my vote, because it look as if it is meant to mock me. But going deeper, the fact you are refusing to share your read on Hika makes me suspicious of whether you are doing it so to not to talk about your scum partner or to allow the setup of an unconditional bandwagon on Hika. In either way, if you thought I would vote Hika for not understanding the why Hika's VC thing, you are wrong.

Hika's need for VC is less scummy than Ace's refusal to help explain why Hika is a townread by requesting a VC himself. Sounds like a setup for something. Also considering how Dawnsday previously decided to push for zekks lynch, there is def something up. My vote and read is justified. Dawn/Ace is scum.

Ace Timing wrote:

you're saying dawnsday suspected zekks was a medic and thought he would doc himself?
1. doctors can't do that on this site
2. there's daychat, ergo his whole team would be on that wagon.

Ace Timing wrote:

let me preface this by saying WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING FISHING FOR PRS. Beyond that, he's obviously fucking joking, and scum are equally liable to fuck around as town. This is another NAI point.

It doesn't take a genius to know what his comments might imply, especially after Hika mentioned that it could be a hint toward a PR here. Zexion admitted he had the same PR as me in mind. No point in hiding it. It could have been a carefree behavior from scum, but since zekks got replaced, I doubt that care free behavior was a tactic. Using a dumb tactic on purpose and getting replaced later for inactivity sounds illogical to me. I wish I could ask zekks if he thinks doctor can vote self earlier when there was less suspicion of it being PR, but too late for that.

It's definitely bad to point out so much evidence for zekks being doctor since that would make aomi the NK candidate #1, but it best we accept the fact zekks goofed up and work from there.

Wait, may I see proof where someone said something about zekks being a doctor?
I only mentioned PR because of what Zekks said.

I didn't mention what kind of PR bc the setup is random...

I'm going to also add, Fox, you should honestly read over your ISO as abraker says and get back to us. You're playing badly without even realizing it. You've let up a few scumslips.

I read abraker's ISO and he never said I played badly. And when did I ever scumslip??

I know he didn't say that lol I'm saying that

I'll get back to you, about to go grab my foods

Hika wrote:

idk why I play with newbies bc you guys miss the point of playing mafia
The whole point is to AS A TEAM, come up with a lynch before deadline, otherwise we might get rekt AS A TEAM

This post rubs the wrong way on multiple accounts:

You insult newbies whilst not really presenting anything, people are making discussions as a team to try and work out where their votes are best placed. They're split in every game ever on day 1 (Most of the time). This isn't exclusive to just Newbie games. you could argue this game is taking longer to reach a conclusion but let's not forget there's been 2 replacements thus far which obviously slows down the pace of votes.

Hika wrote:

I don't understand what's so hard to get with me wanting vote counts

I brought it up in my previous post but I do honestly feel there is a correlation between scum and caution (obviously, wanting constant updates on VC at this point is a sign of caution), scum often feel showing caution seems so pro-town so i'm skeptical of people who constantly emphasize their caution for this reason.

this is debatable obviously and is a philosophy i can certainly see people disagreeing with in future but currently i find it to be quite a reasonable tell.


i don't see much else you haven't "explained personally" since everyone has already gone through most of your stuff.


it's easy to say i'm sheeping but i am trying to formulate my own things here, just because opinions are the same it doesn't mean they're copied/sheeped, it's just a case of people agreeing on things. also i feel having to reread the thread a lot would naturally give me opinions similar to the majority.

Hika wrote:

I'm not being paranoid, I'm trying to defend myself. I see I have a lot of votes on me and I should change that?? You've literally ignored most of my posts except the one's where I'm asking for VC. I only said I needed VC for my reads ONE TIME, and that wasn't to verify my reads, it was to see who the hell I can pressure because it was the most accurate thing to do at the time. If that's not clear to you idk what the hell is. You're acting more scummy than the other people voting me.

And why the hell would you need VC to see who you can pressure? You never even said that part. And why am I acting scum when what you just said is actually pretty scummy in itself? You kind of proved mine and abraker's point now.

Hika wrote:

My reads obviously influence town and I didn't want anyone to be like "okay so then vote abraker! *vote*" and have someone sneaky accidentally hammer. I don't think anyone is understanding this. And I dont want to be the only fucking one concerned about that but it's odd that no one else is caring about that.

And that's funny that you said that because nobody even acted that way towards abraker. Most people didn't vote him just because he offered himself for PoE, they voted him because he was acting scummy towards your reads. Also, you were obviously not the only one being concerned about that, because I also was, but I wanted to concentrate on actual scumhunting instead of abraker.

Hika wrote:

I'm going to also add, Fox, you should honestly read over your ISO as abraker says and get back to us. You're playing badly without even realizing it. You've let up a few scumslips.

Maybe when you accuse me of scumslips, actually show me where I did? It's easy for you to say that without showing any proof. And what makes you say that I'm not realizing my mistakes? I literally did a post about that.

Hika wrote:

I know he didn't say that lol I'm saying that

Why are you playing in a newbie game if all you're going to do is act this way towards one

I have an eight hour shift today so I'll be off for the entire day