Going to give my reads and throw a few observations of mine into the mix

Foxtrot: As everyone has said, she looks largely townie. I have no reason not to have the same assumption, I'm weary but given what small meta I know this is likely to be a townie.

Lincolm: His 1v1 with Foxtrot earlygame gives me 2 townies trying to pry vibes. Everything he posts to me looks very very pro town agenda and for now he's a slight townread but this is subject to change moving forward

John: Posts strike me as just a new townie (Same as lincolm), I'm also swayed by his reaction to policy lynching (He's a newb but he understands the townie benefits of PL)

Abraker: Largely null but he's trying to help town, Selfvote earlygame gives me a strong townie vibe from him

Null Zone is Zexion, rEdo, Zekks, Hika

Zexion - Inactive.

rEdo - Not enough content to sway me over but he's more realistically nulltown.

Zekks - I felt like making a "Zekks" zone and putting him in it for the rest of the game, we played irc mafia earlier and he seemed competent as a mafia (he actually won rofl.), his mafia strategy largely entailed parroting the most active townies just enough to stay out of suspicion. But IRC is a different beast to forum so I have no idea how reliable any of it is. He stays in null permanently probably.

Hika - Actually one of my strongest "gut" feelings I've had in a mafia game thus far. Everything Hika posts rubs me the wrong way, I'm going to link specific posts eventually (pressed for time here atm) but a lot of what she posts just FEELS SO "LAMIST" to me, I'm willing to accept I'm probably wrong on this one and I'm just being paranoid but it's a read and I have it so that's that. Keeping in null because there's nothing I have beyond my gut.

abraker wrote:

@John
Your reads?

1. I don't know much about Zexion, or Hika, so I cannot say anything for them.
2. I can't say much about redo either, but due to his last post, I would say he's town, but I'm not too sure.
3. Foxtrot is also town to me, her posts analyze all players very well and she pushes people to give info, I don't think that's associated as scum.
4. As abraker pointed out, they both post similarly, very neutral, very analytic. Personally, I don't like this "poker face" style of play because there is really nothing to analyze; abraker played like this last game as well, and he got lynched, and he flipped town, so I don't know about these two.
   abraker, however, with his self-vote, is starting to flip towards the mafia side, because of the reasons previously posted. I will have my eye on you.
5. Zekks is lazy and may be either town or mafia.
6. Lincolm is leaning towards scum, he is very defensive explaining his actions and doesn't really offer

ng else.[/list]

damn I messed up that list

there was an attempt

Dawnsday wrote:

Hika - Actually one of my strongest "gut" feelings I've had in a mafia game thus far. Everything Hika posts rubs me the wrong way, I'm going to link specific posts eventually (pressed for time here atm) but a lot of what she posts just FEELS SO "LAMIST" to me, I'm willing to accept I'm probably wrong on this one and I'm just being paranoid but it's a read and I have it so that's that. Keeping in null because there's nothing I have beyond my gut.

i'll wait for you to explain this
i think i can confirm that anyone who plays mafia with me always feels as if my posts rub them wrong

so link me my posts and i can explain them to you

also i just think it looks bad on lincolm to vote me after he sees a vote already on me, referring to an earlier page

also ill drop my reads tomorrow. im off work and im going out drinking tonight! will stop by for some small chat however.

Hika wrote:

Also, self voting strategy shouldn't be mentioned here. Maybe google it cause we're currently in game and dont want mafia doing anything with that information.

Strikes me as a LAMIST post mainly due to the "dont want mafia doing anything with that information". Just feels like such a weird addition to the sentence in general, ending at "we're currently in game" would've been acceptable but the last bit seems to be tacked on solely to remind us you're not mafia.

Also upon actually rereading you don't have as many posts I find questionable as I seem to have remembered. You're probably still pretty null for me honestly. Sorry for forcing you to do stuff on your drinking night, I'm just giving my honest views!

also @mod can we have a votecount

Phoneposting on train. Note to all : I usually have time to check the game once a day due to college and work, I can't be more active than that but that's mt usual activity in mafia games.

I don't really like the sudden abraker wagon (self votes suck but being derrotostnisn't a scumtell by itself, tho it's very anti-town and I don't see how some people are sayin he's helping town) but I'm more concerned about the Zekks one from before, I'll reread stuff when I get home.

@EVERYONE: before we go foward, I like to ask one thing.

Do you understand how power roles are asigned in Matrix9? I'm asking this because there was a MASSIVE confusion last game and that caused a lot of needless debate. (If you don't understand please ask now, if you do, no need to reply to this)

----------------

So... foxtrot was the first one to vote Zekks after he claimed no mafia can stop him. I'm really interested why he considered so much about this being scum indicative, these kind of claims can't be resolved D1 because there's just too much risk. Him not answering questions is a totally different matter tho. Are the rest of such wagon just oportunistic?

Hika wrote:

Also Zex, when i said anti town > scum, I meant it as a way like "sure he's anti town to me right now but I'd rather not vote for his lynch when we could be scum hunting"

hope that clears it up.

Oh okay, I do agree with that.

Dawnsday wrote:

Hika wrote:

Also, self voting strategy shouldn't be mentioned here. Maybe google it cause we're currently in game and dont want mafia doing anything with that information.

Strikes me as a LAMIST post mainly due to the "dont want mafia doing anything with that information". Just feels like such a weird addition to the sentence in general, ending at "we're currently in game" would've been acceptable but the last bit seems to be tacked on solely to remind us you're not mafia.

AFAIK Hika has never been too expresive, she usually goes with only a few lines per posts not explaing ideas a lot. I do agree with that statement anyways: if you have a plan which involves self-voting, you have to go to the end otherwise it will be for nothing. Same goes with reaction testing or stuff like that.

@John, @Dawnsday: why is Foxtrot so town? Going through her ISO shows little content in her lasts posts, last thing was the accusation to Zekks which I kinda understand but I don't see how she "analyses players very well". I do agree with she moving the game forward.

Dawnsday wrote:

Strikes me as a LAMIST post mainly due to the "dont want mafia doing anything with that information". Just feels like such a weird addition to the sentence in general, ending at "we're currently in game" would've been acceptable but the last bit seems to be tacked on solely to remind us you're not mafia.

Also upon actually rereading you don't have as many posts I find questionable as I seem to have remembered. You're probably still pretty null for me honestly. Sorry for forcing you to do stuff on your drinking night, I'm just giving my honest views!

also @mod can we have a votecount

You're not forcing me to do anything don't worry! I'm back from drinking so I'll post a bit.

I can definitely see where it could rub you incorrectly, but I meant it in a way where I wouldn't want to give the wrong people information that would work against town. I have many ways where I, myself as a player, would implement self-voting but would rather not go in depth with it this game.

Lets just say in my opinion, I see it as a shitty town confirming tactic as well as a ballsy scum move. As I said before, I'd rather have an anti town than a scum deceiving me but if that anti town is being extremely counteractive in our scum hunting, I'd be willing to get rid of them D1 to save town the trouble of being confused later on down the road.

After bboy VC then I'll be able to narrow down my reads a bit further. I have more people in the red rather than green, sad to say

also no more shitty reaction tests i'm not gonna let this over analyzing colors of your role PMs pass anymore lol

Zexion wrote:

So... foxtrot was the first one to vote Zekks after he claimed no mafia can stop him. I'm really interested why he considered so much about this being scum indicative, these kind of claims can't be resolved D1 because there's just too much risk. Him not answering questions is a totally different matter tho. Are the rest of such wagon just oportunistic?

I'm probably shooting myself in the foot by latching on Zekks's claim, but it's hard because there's not much content going on. But what other choice do I have, especially on D1? Like I said, I voted Zekks to get a reaction out of them but I got nothing. I might back down if it wasn't for the fact that a lot of new players tend to lurk the game when they have a mafia role, probably because it's a bit harder to play with a role like that.

And abraker is already voting for himself for the sake of PoE and he genuinely thinks that's gonna help town in the long run, but that's just dumb. It's not worth losing two town people over this.

Unless he wants to make us think that he's town, so it'd make sense if he's scum trying to gain our trust by doing something reckless,, claiming that it's for the greater good of town. That's why he's not backing down. That possibility doesn't sound too unrealistic. I'm glad people are wary of his actions.

Besides, why did abraker vote himself after rEdo if he could have just done it without someone else triggering it? I asked rEdo why he chose abraker and he asked me who would I have chosen instead. I straight up told him I don't know. But he also didn't answer my question, instead asking me another one, and that's a way to dodge a question as well.

so let me ask you again rEdo, why abraker?

Hika wrote:

Lets just say in my opinion, I see it as a shitty town confirming tactic as well as a ballsy scum move. As I said before, I'd rather have an anti town than a scum deceiving me but if that anti town is being extremely counteractive in our scum hunting, I'd be willing to get rid of them D1 to save town the trouble of being confused later on down the road.

I understand that it's your night out so I won't pressure you but next time please write your thoughts in a more detailed way, and provide more information as to why you think that way. This is still rather vague to me.

Hika wrote:

I have more people in the red rather than green, sad to say

Who?

Tell me what you'd like me to explain.
And I won't reveal that until i see total votes.

I'm saying john is coming up p much town for me.

Foxtrot wrote:

Zexion wrote:

So... foxtrot was the first one to vote Zekks after he claimed no mafia can stop him. I'm really interested why he considered so much about this being scum indicative, these kind of claims can't be resolved D1 because there's just too much risk. Him not answering questions is a totally different matter tho. Are the rest of such wagon just oportunistic?

I'm probably shooting myself in the foot by latching on Zekks's claim, but it's hard because there's not much content going on. But what other choice do I have, especially on D1? Like I said, I voted Zekks to get a reaction out of them but I got nothing. I might back down if it wasn't for the fact that a lot of new players tend to lurk the game when they have a mafia role, probably because it's a bit harder to play with a role like that.

And abraker is already voting for himself for the sake of PoE and he genuinely thinks that's gonna help town in the long run, but that's just dumb. It's not worth losing two town people over this.

Unless he wants to make us think that he's town, so it'd make sense if he's scum trying to gain our trust by doing something reckless,, claiming that it's for the greater good of town. That's why he's not backing down. That possibility doesn't sound too unrealistic. I'm glad people are wary of his actions.

Yeah, there wasn't much more for content progression but you repeated the same thing... quite a few times. Your vote was kind of right tho, because that brought up the stronger claim. I definitely won't be up for a Zekks lynch right now, because new players also tend to be intimidated of the on-going discussion, there's a lot of question directed to him unaswered tho, but until he comes back, I can't be sure if he is still dodging them.

I'm still not sure if Dawn's vote on Zekks after just was oportunistic or a well thought-pressure plan.

Zexion wrote:

@John, @Dawnsday: why is Foxtrot so town? Going through her ISO shows little content in her lasts posts, last thing was the accusation to Zekks which I kinda understand but I don't see how she "analyses players very well". I do agree with she moving the game forward.

By good analyses I was thinking of back in the beginning of the game, but you're right about recent posts not having much content. As for why I think she's town...her posts don't seem scummy, maybe she's pushing the Zekks train too hard after most decided to leave it for now (most of her longer, more recent posts have something to do with Zekks), but again, she doesn't really seem like she's mafia.

I just noticed that quite a few people are still worried about the Zekks train so I take that bit back.

Foxtrot wrote:

Zexion wrote:

Besides, why did abraker vote himself after rEdo if he could have just done it without someone else triggering it? I asked rEdo why he chose abraker and he asked me who would I have chosen instead. I straight up told him I don't know. But he also didn't answer my question, instead asking me another one, and that's a way to dodge a question as well.

so let me ask you again rEdo, why abraker?

That's because he's the most active in my could-be-scum-list, and I wanted to pressure him to fish out his reaction. That's how I usually (and I think that's how people should generally) use my vote. Why specifically abraker? He has shown that little information I could work him. I thought of pressuring john first, but then I realised he could scumslip by trying to get back on the Zekks wagon, because that seems like the easiest lynch scum could pull out today. And hell, that's what happened.

I hate the fact that abraker has not answered my question (who's scum?) yet, too. I feel like I forced out his reads, but he doesn't seem to be actually hunting for scum.

johnmedina999 wrote:

I just noticed that quite a few people are still worried about the Zekks train so I take that bit back.

lol

abraker wrote:

abraker wrote:

Lincolm: The only problem is that he bandwagons with no real justification. Just declare a bandwagon, he will be second to hop on it

Slight correction: He bandwagons with no real justification, and makes it seem like it is a normal thing to do. I get it if you are trying to choke out activity or info, but it doesn't make sense otherwise.

It is normal things to do in MS, but MS has 2 weeks for the day. It makes sense for me. You bandwagon people, you get his reaction, you get interaction between people why did they pressure that person initially and why didn't they pressure him. You townread him, you unvote.

The thing is you're trying to make everyone who make bandwagons bad right now, so no one is going to vote their scumread, even for smallest gut, because "he is bandwagoning people". When this town are going to vote? When they are sure 100% someone is scum? If you scumread me, then you should have vote me instead self-voting.

Maybe your previous game makes you more aware with everyone's vote, but let's be honest, you could just vote - unvote when you doubt your read - vote again and so on.

Also, here is my statement regarding this :

Lincolm wrote:

So what? No one pressure. No one pushing. Waiting more contents. PoE is less accurate thing to find scum, but is there any accurate method to find scum without power role? Is it wrong to use PoE? Why is L-3 (or maybe you thought it was L-2) a dangerous thing for you? even rEdo (plus someone if you really thought it was L-2) doesn't tell explicitly why did he vote you.

I want you to respond this.

Uhh.. there is also many questions to ask to you but my bet you won't respond them.

Hika wrote:

also i just think it looks bad on lincolm to vote me after he sees a vote already on me, referring to an earlier page

Why are you suddenly referring this?

==

Anyway, I understand this setup.

Lincolm wrote:

Uhh.. there is also many questions to ask to you but my bet you won't respond them.

Isn't the fact that somebody left a question unanswered also a valuable information to work with?

I said that because I want to vote Lincolm out.

I didn't quote you on that lincolm because people can see I'm referring to you and plus I'm on the phone.

Is anyone alive?

Foxtrot wrote:

And abraker is already voting for himself for the sake of PoE and he genuinely thinks that's gonna help town in the long run, but that's just dumb. It's not worth losing two town people over this.

Would it help if I was still a no vote?

rEdo wrote:

He has shown that little information I could work him

I think I showed well enough info to work with here, here, here, and here. Especially here. If you still think that's not enough, then you are doing poor analysis.

rEdo wrote:

I hate the fact that abraker has not answered my question (who's scum?) yet, too. I feel like I forced out his reads, but he doesn't seem to be actually hunting for scum.

I prob missed it, and my first read was entirely voluntary action after reading this post. It reminded me about reads, so I decided to do one. My second read was due to escalated matters with PoE, uncertainty with zekks, end of Lincolm's color fiasco, and foxtrot giving a solid impression.

Lincolm wrote:

If you scumread me, then you should have vote me instead self-voting.

But I didn't

Lincolm wrote:

Maybe your previous game makes you more aware with everyone's vote, but let's be honest, you could just vote - unvote when you doubt your read - vote again and so on.

I try to minimize voting I have little justification for


Also Dawnsday got restricted and doubt he is coming back according to this.

@mod: Please replace Dawnsday and perhaps extend the deadline. Ace Timing, do you want to play in the end?

Yes, if you're town it WOULD help if you were still a no vote.

By that little I did not mean so little, but a little so I could work with it. Self-voting is a terribly bad idea, especially if you were town. I am not sure but you seem way too egocentric when it comes to playing mafia in general. And I just can't help myself to think this is a scum tell.

My vote stands where it was, as my read on abraker changed from leaning scum to scum.

By the way...

Hika wrote:

abraker ur doing the same thing i dont think is a town move and im not going to vote you because it's dumb

Was that a warning from your scumpartner?

It may just be my lack of experience, but I think Lincolm and abraker have been 1v1-ing for far too long, it's starting to look like bussing to me. Ever since this post, where Lincolm invokes abraker out of the blue, and the two start arguing. This wasn't suspicious back then, but certainly looks suspicious now; Lincolm might say that he was one of the only people active at the time and that it was random, but there was redo and Zekks to ask as well; why would he specifically choose abraker to invoke?

It doesn't help that almost all of both abraker's and Lincolm's posts have been fighting with each other, either. Either they're bussing each other, or one of them is town taking advantage of the situation.

johnmedina999 wrote:

or one of them is town

or one of them is mafia*

I don't think he did that out of the blue, rather he did that to pull him into the game because he was kind of just.. there?

But I'm not disagreeing with you completely, I can see where you're coming from. I think at this point, Lincolm is running out of people to pin down so he's going to hop from one person to the next and see if he can do reaction tests? imo

rEdo wrote:

Was that a warning from your scumpartner?

LMAO, you think I'm scumbuddies with abraker? I'm town bro.
If anything, I'd probably be voting him or Lincolm.

abraker because he doesn't seem like he understands the impact of him self-voting. I think redo explains it the way I would like to explain it myself. I can tolerate a NL vote > self vote.

Hey Hika, can we have your reads? You said you would post them after vote count.

my leaning town reads are john n dawn
red leaning would be linc, zekks
red being abraker

everyone is like really null too me.
my FoS is on Foxtrot cuz she was over analyzing but I could be over looking that

Posting before sleep but somehow I ended being really pissed off with some posts...

rEdo wrote:

Lincolm wrote:

Uhh.. there is also many questions to ask to you but my bet you won't respond them.

Isn't the fact that somebody left a question unanswered also a valuable information to work with?

Yeah, but I consider what if he missed it or just skim at that time.

abraker wrote:

I try to minimize voting I have little justification for

And yet, you never engage first for hunting the scum. If you're town, good job. Double thumbs up. And probably you missed where I said my reason to vote you isn't because PoE anymore.

Hika wrote:

I said that because I want to vote Lincolm out.

Any reason why are you not voting me in there or now? I'm pretty sure there is no change in vote count when you said it. You might don't want to vote abraker because it will put him in L-1, you think Zekks could be PR for you, but why did you not vote me?

johnmedina999 wrote:

It may just be my lack of experience, but I think Lincolm and abraker have been 1v1-ing for far too long, it's starting to look like bussing to me. Ever since this post, where Lincolm invokes abraker out of the blue, and the two start arguing. This wasn't suspicious back then, but certainly looks suspicious now; Lincolm might say that he was one of the only people active at the time and that it was random, but there was redo and Zekks to ask as well; why would he specifically choose abraker to invoke?

I don't know what to say, how is it "too long"? I even said I choose abraker because PoE for initial reason. Do you even know what is PoE?

Hika wrote:

But I'm not disagreeing with you completely, I can see where you're coming from. I think at this point, Lincolm is running out of people to pin down so he's going to hop from one person to the next and see if he can do reaction tests? imo

This post is just rubbing me so hard and wrong. I don't even know if this is a reason for scumread me or a reason why are you not voting me or both.

Lincolm wrote:

abraker wrote:

I try to minimize voting I have little justification for

And yet, you never engage first for hunting the scum. If you're town, good job. Double thumbs up. And probably you missed where I said my reason to vote you isn't because PoE anymore.

I am scum-hunting, but subtly. It's just that no fish took my bait yet, sadly.

we have like two more days in the game left, i'm not voting you cuz i dont see anyone else posting today? @Lincolm

I dont want scum to come along and 'accidentally' hammer abraker also. Would be dumb for anyone else to vote him without a complete town decision. hope you see where im coming from

@linc, dont take it personal, just go to bed lol