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Newbie Game 16: Day 2

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Dawns
215 posts
Joined July 2014
Dawns
I actually catch a hint of Zekks possibly being PR because of his "lynch me and mafia have a higher chance" post. It just seems that something a noob with a power role would say, could be entirely wrong but it's 100% a possibility in my mind and one that wouldn't shock me if it were to be true.

Also +1 to Foxtrot's point about John and Zexion needing to post more content. It's hard to get reads on people who don't converse
Lincolm
258 posts
Joined November 2011
Lincolm
Sorry, I will have busied by school and work + Dota 2 The International this week, but I will search time to post each day.

abraker wrote:

What if I told you that I vote knowing I will likely regret the decision later? I vote when I am able to justify my vote since at least last game. Last time I voted Dawnsday as soon as soon as I had justification to vote, which was his mason crap. This time I am hesitant to vote zekks due to me being wrong about Dawnsday last game. This is why rvs sucks even if you can justify your reasons.
Dully noted.

abraker wrote:

@Lincolm
Also now that I look at it, why did you ask zekks about John twice here and here? You got your "joke" response from from zekks here, WHICH YOU JOKED BACK, ACKNOWLEDGING THE ANSWER. Like what the fuck, man? Maybe that's why zekks didn't bother answering that one properly in particular?
Because I didn't assume he would have the same reason or same respond. As I said before, the first respond I specially consider it because maybe Zekks thought it was RVS stage, so he went " idc e e e e e". Then there was like more 10-15 posts and more contents to discuss so I would really like his opinions about everyone when he was active, but he still go "i go sha la la la la". I asked about John again because Zekks already gave his opinion about me and Foxtrot, the other one who involved was John but he didn't say anything about him, so I asked about John to Zekks again.

I agree I asked too many things without span of time at there, tho. I should wait.

Foxtrot wrote:

yeah, we do have PRs, but what makes you think Zekks is one and not just vanilla? Just chance?
I don't want to discuss this because it achieves nothing except who or what is PR or not. We should do and act as our alignment regardless our power.

Foxtrot wrote:

I still don't get why we should back off from Zekks if he's scum, like Hika and Lincolm are suggesting. Sure, there's not enough content, but does it really matter if there's enough evidence that shows Zekks having higher chances of scum instead of town?
Because if you discuss anything about him, you are going to achieve nothing about him (he won't respond seriously), especially if he is going to flip as town, you're going to hurt town.

I'm not saying we should let him free, tho. Let him go for 72 hours maybe. If you still read him as scum, try to convince us why is he scum again.

He is town for me. He is waaaaaaaay too confidence. I have no idea how to pull information from him, but I hate policy lynch also.

==

Unvote
Vote : abraker because PoE (L-3)
Dawns
215 posts
Joined July 2014
Dawns

Lincolm wrote:

, but I hate policy lynch also.
Why? If he's not commited to reading he's going to hurt town in the long run. It's not FUN to policy lynch rest assured I'd rather the idea was never even conceived but honestly.

I agree we shouldnt straight call it a day here and lynch but it should 100% be an option for us moving forward.
Foxtrot
1,165 posts
Joined April 2012
Foxtrot

Lincolm wrote:

Vote :abraker because PoE
... that's it? Really? Why start the PoE with abraker?
rEdo
809 posts
Joined November 2008
rEdo

Foxtrot wrote:

Lincolm wrote:

Vote :abraker because PoE
... that's it? Really? Why start the PoE with abraker?
Who would you start start with?
rEdo
809 posts
Joined November 2008
rEdo
who would you rather start with*
Foxtrot
1,165 posts
Joined April 2012
Foxtrot
Honestly, I don't know. Is PoE any efficient?
johnmedina999
296 posts
Joined October 2016
johnmedina999
There isn't much else to work with right now so I say it's a good option.

Also, I agree with everyone else, if we get nowhere by the end of the mafia day, just lynch Zekks, because there is a 2/9 chance we can be lynching scum, and it's better to lynch someone than not lynch anyone at all.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
Well since we can forgive zekks's concerning stupidity, PoE looks sexy as fuck, and I would like to bring my end of the deal, I guess I have no choice either

vote: abraker
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

johnmedina999 wrote:

Also, I agree with everyone else, if we get nowhere by the end of the mafia day, just lynch Zekks, because there is a 2/9 chance we can be lynching scum, and it's better to lynch someone than not lynch anyone at all.
That's what I told myself when I lynched dawnsday last game. Now look at me, I'm voting for myself.



Lincolm wrote:

I asked about John again because Zekks already gave his opinion about me and Foxtrot, the other one who involved was John but he didn't say anything about him, so I asked about John to Zekks again.
But why John? And why zekks? What were your thoughts between the connection between the two

I want to know your read on everybody here.


Lincolm wrote:

because PoE (L-3)
Something that mafia would conveniently bandwagon on without hesitation while giving a non critical reason to.
johnmedina999
296 posts
Joined October 2016
johnmedina999

abraker wrote:

Well since we can forgive zekks's concerning stupidity, PoE looks sexy as fuck, and I would like to bring my end of the deal, I guess I have no choice either

self-vote
What do you mean you have no choice? If you're town you would have all the reason in the world to defend yourself from being lynched, because more town = good. The only reason I see you giving up is if you're Mafia, or extremely lazy, and both of those options are anti-town. You're getting suspicious.
Foxtrot
1,165 posts
Joined April 2012
Foxtrot

abraker wrote:

Well since we can forgive zekks's concerning stupidity, PoE looks sexy as fuck, and I would like to bring my end of the deal, I guess I have no choice either

vote: abraker
No, you do have a choice. And that choice is not to off yourself. Are you trying to do this to make yourself more believable?
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

johnmedina999 wrote:

abraker wrote:

Well since we can forgive zekks's concerning stupidity, PoE looks sexy as fuck, and I would like to bring my end of the deal, I guess I have no choice either

self-vote
What do you mean you have no choice? If you're town you would have all the reason in the world to defend yourself from being lynched, because more town = good. The only reason I see you giving up is if you're Mafia, or extremely lazy, and both of those options are anti-town. You're getting suspicious.

Foxtrot wrote:

abraker wrote:

Well since we can forgive zekks's concerning stupidity, PoE looks sexy as fuck, and I would like to bring my end of the deal, I guess I have no choice either

vote: abraker
No, you do have a choice. And that choice is not to off yourself. Are you trying to do this to make yourself more believable?

Didn't I mention that I would self vote if I couldn't make a decision sometime earlier? Ofc if go back at my vote now, it would raise eyebrows, more so when I am L-1, so I'll let it be.
Dawns
215 posts
Joined July 2014
Dawns
I have little to no faith in the power of PoE currently, seriously it's day 1.

Also, how and why does selfvoting exist in mafia; I seriously fail to see it's applications in any useful scenario. The last time I saw it used was BBoy last game and he did it to CLAIM he was scum.

Any other time it's used it's just straight up weird. Anyone explain it's use here? (Sorry I'm still learning mafia apparently).

unvote

removing my vote on Zekks because this is a weird gamestate
Hika
1,553 posts
Joined February 2010
Hika

Dulcet wrote:

yeah, we do have PRs, but what makes you think Zekks is one and not just vanilla? Just chance?

I think Zekks did a general threat to everyone voting him so i say he should tell us his role before we PL him. Seriously

I'm not playing with an anti-town.
Hika
1,553 posts
Joined February 2010
Hika
Also, self voting strategy shouldn't be mentioned here. Maybe google it cause we're currently in game and dont want mafia doing anything with that information.
Hika
1,553 posts
Joined February 2010
Hika
abraker ur doing the same thing i dont think is a town move and im not going to vote you because it's dumb
Dawns
215 posts
Joined July 2014
Dawns

Hika wrote:

Also, self voting strategy shouldn't be mentioned here. Maybe google it cause we're currently in game and dont want mafia doing anything with that information.
Aight, ty anyway.
Hika
1,553 posts
Joined February 2010
Hika
Eh, I'll just say it's a diversion thing. ^
rEdo
809 posts
Joined November 2008
rEdo

johnmedina999 wrote:

There isn't much else to work with right now so I say it's a good option.

Also, I agree with everyone else, if we get nowhere by the end of the mafia day, just lynch Zekks, because there is a 2/9 chance we can be lynching scum, and it's better to lynch someone than not lynch anyone at all.
I don't like this.
Lincolm
258 posts
Joined November 2011
Lincolm
Posting in between changing game of The International 7

Foxtrot wrote:

Honestly, I don't know. Is PoE any efficient?
No.

abraker wrote:

Well since we can forgive zekks's concerning stupidity, PoE looks sexy as fuck, and I would like to bring my end of the deal, I guess I have no choice either

vote: abraker
Like it will achieve something if you're town. Good game, I'm sticking my vote right now. And it is L-2 with your self-vote.

abraker wrote:

But why John? And why zekks? What were your thoughts between the connection between the two

I want to know your read on everybody here.
As I said already, Zekks alarmed my radar with "idc" post so I particularly need information coming out from him.
When we were discussing things, he is posting his read on me and Foxtrot, which I find "meh", so I asked about John because John involved in the discussion.

Lincolm's read
I have 2 solid townreads; Foxtrot and Zekks.

Foxtrot is my top townread, mostly because his critical thinking post. This is coming out from town who consider a lot of things, like what if I'm town and John is scum, and any kind. I don't see how my interaction with him from scum also. If this still not convince you why he is town, this post is screaming town a lot also.

Zekks is my 2nd top townread and solid enough to hold till end game. He is literally have no idea what is going on in this game. Should I link his post why he had no idea with mafia game? I think his ISO already explain a lot. He is town because his confidence on here, connected to his next post, and he is literally doesn't give a shit are way too astonishing as scum.

I have 4 people leaning town; rEdo, Dawnsday, Hika, Johnmedina.

rEdo most likely town because how he joins to discussion. Seems he realized that the discussion is somewhat stalled and he joined up. I like this post also, seems genuine from pissed off town because of what Zekks doin.

Dawnsday is my top 4th townread. This pressure post kinda meh but I actually like this because of how he jumps on Zekks instantly (like 4 minutes after Zekks's post). After that this post where he is unvote and explained his chain of thought somehow looks like town who think over his read. Well, maybe because Hika gave straightforward hint, so I'm not sure also, but my first reason is still there. I fell that he is trying to be proactive to know what kind of scenarios that we have right now, but I doubted my town read because he is too passive.

Hika is someone I'm hoping town, i guess. Tbh, I still don't like his tone but I like how he interacts with everyone. It is a weak tell but he is deliberately trying to get more informations, which is good for town. This one is a little town-tell also, as no one has said it before. If scum realized this, he would probably shut his mouth and telling his partner at night, as Zekks won't hurt them also.

I believe JohnMedina is a newbie town because of his reaction and his paranoia?. Not good tell, but I don't think he would pull off this post to Foxtrot as scum. I question myself if he is actually newbie and he is way more passive than Dawnsday.

It is leaving Zexion and abraker. I choose abraker because rEdo voted him already. If rEdo didn't vote him, I would still vote abraker because he is more active than Zexion.

I will put this outside of my read because basically this is the most triggering my scumread right now and why I review my leaning town read everytime.
So why is being passive bad? In lack of content and lack of interaction between players, especially town vs scum, scums tend to go with the flow what is going on. Letting town vs town happens and jump on wagon with any reasons when the time is appropriate. It most likely come from newbie who doesn't know what to do, but scum also can pull this.

abraker wrote:

Something that mafia would conveniently bandwagon on without hesitation while giving a non critical reason to.
So what? No one pressure. No one pushing. Waiting more contents. PoE is less accurate thing to find scum, but is there any accurate method to find scum without power role? Is it wrong to use PoE? Why is L-3 (or maybe you thought it was L-2) a dangerous thing for you? even rEdo (plus someone if you really thought it was L-2) doesn't tell explicitly why did he vote you.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

Lincolm wrote:

If rEdo didn't vote him, I would still vote abraker because he is more active than Zexion.
voting because activity is something I really don't like. Same with inactivity. Your votes seem to have little basis and just go with the bandwagon.

It is so tempting to vote Lincolm or zekks because they have some questionable material on their plate, but it doesn't guarantee scum.


Lincolm: The only problem is that he bandwagons with no real justification. Just declare a bandwagon, he will be second to hop on it
Foxtrot: all actions look very pro town, but can also be scum with excellent acting.
John: all actions look very pro town, with a hint of newbie spicing. If he is scum, we won't be able to tell before day 2
zekks: all actions look dumb town or idiot scum
Dawnsday: all actions look neutral. Actually his posts remind me of mine
rEdo, Zexion, Hika: null


@John
Your reads?
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

abraker wrote:

Same with inactivity
*Unless it's pushing them to be more active
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

abraker wrote:

Lincolm: The only problem is that he bandwagons with no real justification. Just declare a bandwagon, he will be second to hop on it
Slight correction: He bandwagons with no real justification, and makes it seem like it is a normal thing to do. I get it if you are trying to choke out activity or info, but it doesn't make sense otherwise.
Dawns
215 posts
Joined July 2014
Dawns
Going to give my reads and throw a few observations of mine into the mix

Foxtrot: As everyone has said, she looks largely townie. I have no reason not to have the same assumption, I'm weary but given what small meta I know this is likely to be a townie.

Lincolm: His 1v1 with Foxtrot earlygame gives me 2 townies trying to pry vibes. Everything he posts to me looks very very pro town agenda and for now he's a slight townread but this is subject to change moving forward

John: Posts strike me as just a new townie (Same as lincolm), I'm also swayed by his reaction to policy lynching (He's a newb but he understands the townie benefits of PL)

Abraker: Largely null but he's trying to help town, Selfvote earlygame gives me a strong townie vibe from him

Null Zone is Zexion, rEdo, Zekks, Hika

Zexion - Inactive.

rEdo - Not enough content to sway me over but he's more realistically nulltown.

Zekks - I felt like making a "Zekks" zone and putting him in it for the rest of the game, we played irc mafia earlier and he seemed competent as a mafia (he actually won rofl.), his mafia strategy largely entailed parroting the most active townies just enough to stay out of suspicion. But IRC is a different beast to forum so I have no idea how reliable any of it is. He stays in null permanently probably.

Hika - Actually one of my strongest "gut" feelings I've had in a mafia game thus far. Everything Hika posts rubs me the wrong way, I'm going to link specific posts eventually (pressed for time here atm) but a lot of what she posts just FEELS SO "LAMIST" to me, I'm willing to accept I'm probably wrong on this one and I'm just being paranoid but it's a read and I have it so that's that. Keeping in null because there's nothing I have beyond my gut.
johnmedina999
296 posts
Joined October 2016
johnmedina999

abraker wrote:

@John
Your reads?
  1. I don't know much about Zexion, or Hika, so I cannot say anything for them.
  2. I can't say much about redo either, but due to his last post, I would say he's town, but I'm not too sure.
  3. Foxtrot is also town to me, her posts analyze all players very well and she pushes people to give info, I don't think that's associated as scum.
  4. As abraker pointed out, they both post similarly, very neutral, very analytic. Personally, I don't like this "poker face" style of play because there is really nothing to analyze; abraker played like this last game as well, and he got lynched, and he flipped town, so I don't know about these two.
    abraker, however, with his self-vote, is starting to flip towards the mafia side, because of the reasons previously posted. I will have my eye on you.
  5. Zekks is lazy and may be either town or mafia.
  6. Lincolm is leaning towards scum, he is very defensive explaining his actions and doesn't really offer
ng else.[/list]
johnmedina999
296 posts
Joined October 2016
johnmedina999
damn I messed up that list
Dawns
215 posts
Joined July 2014
Dawns
there was an attempt
Hika
1,553 posts
Joined February 2010
Hika

Dawnsday wrote:

Hika - Actually one of my strongest "gut" feelings I've had in a mafia game thus far. Everything Hika posts rubs me the wrong way, I'm going to link specific posts eventually (pressed for time here atm) but a lot of what she posts just FEELS SO "LAMIST" to me, I'm willing to accept I'm probably wrong on this one and I'm just being paranoid but it's a read and I have it so that's that. Keeping in null because there's nothing I have beyond my gut.
i'll wait for you to explain this
i think i can confirm that anyone who plays mafia with me always feels as if my posts rub them wrong

so link me my posts and i can explain them to you
Hika
1,553 posts
Joined February 2010
Hika
also i just think it looks bad on lincolm to vote me after he sees a vote already on me, referring to an earlier page
Hika
1,553 posts
Joined February 2010
Hika
also ill drop my reads tomorrow. im off work and im going out drinking tonight! will stop by for some small chat however.
Dawns
215 posts
Joined July 2014
Dawns

Hika wrote:

Also, self voting strategy shouldn't be mentioned here. Maybe google it cause we're currently in game and dont want mafia doing anything with that information.
Strikes me as a LAMIST post mainly due to the "dont want mafia doing anything with that information". Just feels like such a weird addition to the sentence in general, ending at "we're currently in game" would've been acceptable but the last bit seems to be tacked on solely to remind us you're not mafia.

Also upon actually rereading you don't have as many posts I find questionable as I seem to have remembered. You're probably still pretty null for me honestly. Sorry for forcing you to do stuff on your drinking night, I'm just giving my honest views!

also @mod can we have a votecount
Zexion
308 posts
Joined May 2012
Zexion
Phoneposting on train. Note to all : I usually have time to check the game once a day due to college and work, I can't be more active than that but that's mt usual activity in mafia games.

I don't really like the sudden abraker wagon (self votes suck but being derrotostnisn't a scumtell by itself, tho it's very anti-town and I don't see how some people are sayin he's helping town) but I'm more concerned about the Zekks one from before, I'll reread stuff when I get home.
Zexion
308 posts
Joined May 2012
Zexion
@EVERYONE: before we go foward, I like to ask one thing.

Do you understand how power roles are asigned in Matrix9? I'm asking this because there was a MASSIVE confusion last game and that caused a lot of needless debate. (If you don't understand please ask now, if you do, no need to reply to this)

----------------

So... foxtrot was the first one to vote Zekks after he claimed no mafia can stop him. I'm really interested why he considered so much about this being scum indicative, these kind of claims can't be resolved D1 because there's just too much risk. Him not answering questions is a totally different matter tho. Are the rest of such wagon just oportunistic?

Hika wrote:

Also Zex, when i said anti town > scum, I meant it as a way like "sure he's anti town to me right now but I'd rather not vote for his lynch when we could be scum hunting"

hope that clears it up.
Oh okay, I do agree with that.

Dawnsday wrote:

Hika wrote:

Also, self voting strategy shouldn't be mentioned here. Maybe google it cause we're currently in game and dont want mafia doing anything with that information.
Strikes me as a LAMIST post mainly due to the "dont want mafia doing anything with that information". Just feels like such a weird addition to the sentence in general, ending at "we're currently in game" would've been acceptable but the last bit seems to be tacked on solely to remind us you're not mafia.
AFAIK Hika has never been too expresive, she usually goes with only a few lines per posts not explaing ideas a lot. I do agree with that statement anyways: if you have a plan which involves self-voting, you have to go to the end otherwise it will be for nothing. Same goes with reaction testing or stuff like that.

@John, @Dawnsday: why is Foxtrot so town? Going through her ISO shows little content in her lasts posts, last thing was the accusation to Zekks which I kinda understand but I don't see how she "analyses players very well". I do agree with she moving the game forward.
Hika
1,553 posts
Joined February 2010
Hika

Dawnsday wrote:

Strikes me as a LAMIST post mainly due to the "dont want mafia doing anything with that information". Just feels like such a weird addition to the sentence in general, ending at "we're currently in game" would've been acceptable but the last bit seems to be tacked on solely to remind us you're not mafia.

Also upon actually rereading you don't have as many posts I find questionable as I seem to have remembered. You're probably still pretty null for me honestly. Sorry for forcing you to do stuff on your drinking night, I'm just giving my honest views!

also @mod can we have a votecount
You're not forcing me to do anything don't worry! I'm back from drinking so I'll post a bit.

I can definitely see where it could rub you incorrectly, but I meant it in a way where I wouldn't want to give the wrong people information that would work against town. I have many ways where I, myself as a player, would implement self-voting but would rather not go in depth with it this game.

Lets just say in my opinion, I see it as a shitty town confirming tactic as well as a ballsy scum move. As I said before, I'd rather have an anti town than a scum deceiving me but if that anti town is being extremely counteractive in our scum hunting, I'd be willing to get rid of them D1 to save town the trouble of being confused later on down the road.
Hika
1,553 posts
Joined February 2010
Hika
After bboy VC then I'll be able to narrow down my reads a bit further. I have more people in the red rather than green, sad to say
Hika
1,553 posts
Joined February 2010
Hika
also no more shitty reaction tests i'm not gonna let this over analyzing colors of your role PMs pass anymore lol
Foxtrot
1,165 posts
Joined April 2012
Foxtrot

Zexion wrote:

So... foxtrot was the first one to vote Zekks after he claimed no mafia can stop him. I'm really interested why he considered so much about this being scum indicative, these kind of claims can't be resolved D1 because there's just too much risk. Him not answering questions is a totally different matter tho. Are the rest of such wagon just oportunistic?
I'm probably shooting myself in the foot by latching on Zekks's claim, but it's hard because there's not much content going on. But what other choice do I have, especially on D1? Like I said, I voted Zekks to get a reaction out of them but I got nothing. I might back down if it wasn't for the fact that a lot of new players tend to lurk the game when they have a mafia role, probably because it's a bit harder to play with a role like that.

And abraker is already voting for himself for the sake of PoE and he genuinely thinks that's gonna help town in the long run, but that's just dumb. It's not worth losing two town people over this.

Unless he wants to make us think that he's town, so it'd make sense if he's scum trying to gain our trust by doing something reckless,, claiming that it's for the greater good of town. That's why he's not backing down. That possibility doesn't sound too unrealistic. I'm glad people are wary of his actions.

Besides, why did abraker vote himself after rEdo if he could have just done it without someone else triggering it? I asked rEdo why he chose abraker and he asked me who would I have chosen instead. I straight up told him I don't know. But he also didn't answer my question, instead asking me another one, and that's a way to dodge a question as well.

so let me ask you again rEdo, why abraker?

Hika wrote:

Lets just say in my opinion, I see it as a shitty town confirming tactic as well as a ballsy scum move. As I said before, I'd rather have an anti town than a scum deceiving me but if that anti town is being extremely counteractive in our scum hunting, I'd be willing to get rid of them D1 to save town the trouble of being confused later on down the road.
I understand that it's your night out so I won't pressure you but next time please write your thoughts in a more detailed way, and provide more information as to why you think that way. This is still rather vague to me.

Hika wrote:

I have more people in the red rather than green, sad to say
Who?
Hika
1,553 posts
Joined February 2010
Hika
Tell me what you'd like me to explain.
And I won't reveal that until i see total votes.

I'm saying john is coming up p much town for me.
Zexion
308 posts
Joined May 2012
Zexion

Foxtrot wrote:

Zexion wrote:

So... foxtrot was the first one to vote Zekks after he claimed no mafia can stop him. I'm really interested why he considered so much about this being scum indicative, these kind of claims can't be resolved D1 because there's just too much risk. Him not answering questions is a totally different matter tho. Are the rest of such wagon just oportunistic?
I'm probably shooting myself in the foot by latching on Zekks's claim, but it's hard because there's not much content going on. But what other choice do I have, especially on D1? Like I said, I voted Zekks to get a reaction out of them but I got nothing. I might back down if it wasn't for the fact that a lot of new players tend to lurk the game when they have a mafia role, probably because it's a bit harder to play with a role like that.

And abraker is already voting for himself for the sake of PoE and he genuinely thinks that's gonna help town in the long run, but that's just dumb. It's not worth losing two town people over this.

Unless he wants to make us think that he's town, so it'd make sense if he's scum trying to gain our trust by doing something reckless,, claiming that it's for the greater good of town. That's why he's not backing down. That possibility doesn't sound too unrealistic. I'm glad people are wary of his actions.
Yeah, there wasn't much more for content progression but you repeated the same thing... quite a few times. Your vote was kind of right tho, because that brought up the stronger claim. I definitely won't be up for a Zekks lynch right now, because new players also tend to be intimidated of the on-going discussion, there's a lot of question directed to him unaswered tho, but until he comes back, I can't be sure if he is still dodging them.

I'm still not sure if Dawn's vote on Zekks after just was oportunistic or a well thought-pressure plan.
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