penoreri - Preserved Valkyria

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Ascendance
I guess, but I wouldn’t be happy with that either if I’m honest haha

In cases like that, it’s usually because they don’t have the skill to map higher diffs, but Kroytz has shown and proven he can which is my point
Topic Starter
Kroytz
More mods on any set wouldn't hurt either, but I'll see what I can do
tyty Mao~ :)

Mao wrote:

Hey Kroytz, I'm taking this down for now because of the concerns Mir has pointed out. I think you have not replied to all of them properly. Moreover I have some concerns of my own:

[The Entrance to Valhalla]

Kroytz wrote:

00:19:953 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15) - This is extremely hard to read considering the majority of the intro has utilized this spacing for streams only half of the speed. It's basically asking to be missed on the first runthrough and if you're not paying attention you'll miss it and die instantly. The spacing of this anyways is too high for the song I think, since it's only the intro and while I understand the sound is quite intense, in context the rhythm density itself is enough emphasis, so putting spacing on top of that seems excessive. With the kind of variable spaced streams I have in the beginning sections, whether this is low DS or high DS will always be hard to read because of the different snap. So I opted to the kind of DS I felt comfortable using for this. Also, looking at first-run tries is not a good argument since people who are not familiar with the song beforehand will usually have difficulty. Considering how this is an 8.3* map, it's naturally going to be difficult in multiple aspects...
I think there actually is a way to make it work, you just have to look at the other difficulties! Just use some pretty low spacing at the beginning of the stream, that will introduce players to the fast nature automatically and it's contrast enough because your other streams all start with high spacing. Whether it starts low->high->low->high or high->low->high->low the fact of the matter is that both extremes of the DS are taken. It's not really about "making it work" but subjugating my idea but finding a compromise with the different snap.

Kroytz wrote:

01:25:161 (1,2,3) - This angle plays so badly, like the implied movement here is so crass, and would play a lot nicer if you didn't blanket 1,2 or did something like 01:29:525 (1,2) - instead. Possible, I chose not to however.
I agree with Mir on this one and I'd like to hear your reasoning why you placed it like that instead of just brushing it off. I said it was possible but I didn't do this at the time. With this Disqualification, maybe I can choose to do this now. The idea is that the circle is a significantly weaker beat,
but in this case it was a bit too weak is all.


Kroytz wrote:

01:28:298 (4,5) - Related to the above, if you want to follow the melody here a slider on 4 would be optimal since the song's melody stops on that and starts on 01:28:571 (1) - again which would reinforce your rhythm more than if you slapped a note on 01:28:434. Seems unnecessary to have something there.
01:29:934 (3,1) - Similarly to the above, you could have a slider here instead to put more contrast on the triple 01:30:207 (2,3,4) - (which honestly should be way more spaced than it is) and follow the melody more succinctly. I showed this to you and one other before but here is the section of the sheet music that helps me define how this jump pattern is to be played out rhythmically
The part of the music sheet you have posted here is basically confirming Mir's point instead of defending yours. There's a slur between the notes on 4 and 5 which means that they are not played seperately so having that jump to 5 makes no real sense in your pattern structure. And we talked in PM about how this is still viable because of the finish sound on the end of the slur. If I used a slider then the finish would not get hit properly, the two circles is okay to use here because of the finish (and because despite it being a slur it still is technically a part of the previous keys.

Kroytz wrote:

01:57:889 (1,2,3,4) - With the lack of 1/3 in the last kiai I think having a slider here or something would be nice, or space it significantly more.No
How do you think "No" is an appropriate reply to this? Can you at least please explain your reasoning briefly. "No" is inappropriate now? Because sliders make the final slider stand out less, and I personally like the straight down the center ending of my four circles versus two sliders on let's say left and right sides or something.

I have some more points to mention about this difficulty:
  1. 01:25:980 (1,2,1,2) - The spacing on this seems random to me because there's nothing to emphasize here at all, the song is not doing much from 01:26:116 (2) - on except for holding the note. A slider might be nice there. There is a clear beat on the first (2) but I can add a slider for the second pair of circles instead.
  2. 01:31:161 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Mir has already mentioned this and I really agree here. I get why you do this but tone the spacing down a bit, it's too much for the sharp turn at 1 and even if 01:34:980 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - leads into something different, the note intensity itself is not that much different. Except for the fact that even on the aforementioned stream there's a mess of crashes that indicate how much more stronger it is than the latter. The period in which is leads to is important because in this case, the first stream wants to be stronger for a much more demanding phrase where the latter wants to be weaker for a less demanding phrase (as you can hear with the 1/1s and 1/2s).


I also think the contrast between the chorus and sections like 01:40:434 - could be a bit better. The chorus feels more intense in the music but the jumps in all of these sections blend somewhat together. If what you're looking at is spacing alone then that's understandable but the difficulty of the jumps themselves is completely obvious with regards to difficulty and intensity.
Kawashiro
That's why I love Modding v2

If I receive long long wallmodding, I quit osu lol
Sharkie

Mao wrote:

[Sharkie's EXHAUST]
  1. 00:03:502 (2,3) - Nothing that major but the stack makes this cramped and you used this nowhere else.
    Okay.
  2. 00:33:114 - are you sure that you want to go with 0.33 for these? You don't even see sliderticks for reading on the first one which makes this very easy to sliderbreak. I think 0.5 would work well enough considering your SV is low anyways.
    Changed.
  3. 00:39:308 (1,2,1,2) - Any particular reasoning behind those being 3/4? There's not really anything on the blue tick that stands out to me.
    That's why those slider ends are silenced. I wanted to put a circle on the open hi-hats on beat 4 and then beat 2 the following measure.
  4. 00:52:434 - This section just builds up into a stream and you are decreasing your density to almost zero? I'd just be consistent with the one before instead of only mapping the drums here.
    Okay.
  5. 01:01:434 (3,4) - The emphasis here should be on 4 yet you are using extremely low spacing here.
    Okay.
  6. 01:23:798 (3) - Not really a huge deal but this is the only of its kind in the map.
    Yes because it's the only part where you have an extremely noticeable accented hi-hat.
  7. 01:49:161 - You are pretty inconsistent with what you are following in this section. You usually follow the drums but then you just go for that piano with 01:52:434 (1,2) - even though you ignore it at places like 01:51:752 -.
    I don't think that's inconsistency. The first two measures starting here 01:49:161 - are repeated again. Although the piano doesn't have exactly the same notes, they are extremely similar and have the same rhythmic idea. That changes here 01:53:525 - to a completely different rhythm.


Some more mods on this difficulty wouldn't hurt either.
osu file format v14

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Title:Preserved Valkyria
TitleUnicode:Preserved Valkyria
Artist:penoreri
ArtistUnicode:ぺのれり
Creator:Kroytz
Version:Sharkie's EXHAUST
Source:SOUND VOLTEX III GRAVITY WARS
Tags:sdvx konami kac song contest champion Renumi Akitoshi pkk Sharkie Zexous Kawashiro Fushimi Rio
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-sandAI
still gonna point out and ask why the hitsounding is quieter than Natsu maps?
Topic Starter
Kroytz
Maybe you still have the old custom sounds. Redownload to get rid of them. The hitsound volumes are average 80% now
_handholding

Kawashiro wrote:

That's why I love Modding v2

If I receive long long wallmodding, I quit osu lol
If I received 50 lines I would quit life
Firis Mistlud

Kisses wrote:

Kawashiro wrote:

That's why I love Modding v2

If I receive long long wallmodding, I quit osu lol
If I received 50 lines I would quit life
Same, I won't change anything when it's too long for me to read
melloe
some thoughts about that piece of sheet music

it's not a slur it's a tie and yeah it means that the 5 is not "technically" part of the previous keys, a tie was used only because the notes are on different sides of the barline. it is played as a crotchet (1/4 note) and not as a quaver (1/8 note) so if you are strictly following melody, there is no point in having the 5 hitcircle.
i'm also not sure what the finish sound has anything to do with it. maps are supposed to be mapped to the music, not to the hitsounds.

that said, i support having the 5 there, because i think it just kinda feels right. i think it's because that's the point where the bass changes chords. there's more to music than melody and drums
Topic Starter
Kroytz
Thank you for clarifying melloe (i gets ties and slurs mixed up zz). What the music provides is a crash where the (5) is located in the song, and that's why the finish is there. To have a slider-end that covers up the finish is really strange to me, so, that's why I too believe having a circle is more fitting~
AncuL
on the hardest diff, 01:55:707 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - the way on putting NC (and notes) on these sets of notes is a big no for me. this part has a pattern of 1-2-3-1-2-3-1-2-3, not 1-2-1-2-1-2. i believe things similiar to this represents the song better

in a side note, maybe adding NC to every single notes on 01:57:889 (1,2,3,4) - might be better to end the music

edit: similiar thing happens in Rio's diff, 01:53:525 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - has a pattern of 1-2-3-1-2-3 while the mapper mapped it with 1-2-1-2 (actually this happens from 01:49:161 - ) (this has been brought up by Xexxar but i think i do it again for the sake of relevancy)
Nikakis
Kroytz was probably a good student in Geometry, but not so good in the Music Class
Fushimi Rio
holiday ends with dq mods
Nao Tomori
arent you used to that by now imouto
srijanfromsd
Oh rip. An 8* map was stopped from rank.
Genjuro

Nikakis wrote:

Kroytz was probably a good student in Geometry, but not so good in the Music Class
FlyingTurbina
Just a sidenote.

01:25:161 (1,2,3) -
This actually plays better than the thing Nominator whose name I forgotten mentioned.
Also does he really need to explain the thought behind that? He just said he wants it like that and it plays okay, it should be enough.
Stuff like this is done in many maps, forcing blanket because it looks good and could play differently but it still plays ok.

Anyhow, this plays well because nr 3 is below nr 1 and 2 so the emphasis on nr 2 to jump back down is there.
If he would put it like you mentioned, forward, the stop would become very awkward, you have to stop and then move fast in the same direction
which is a really annoying thing to play, many mappers do not notice the small awkward stops, this small bump upwards makes this comfortable.

On the other hand, I do not understand stuff like 01:46:434 (1,2,1,2) -
If you are to follow the music, how do you map the more intense part later on?
This feels more like a jump training now than actual map, I think even for you Kroytz, this is a little too much, song is very calm compared to the rest
and you do screenjumps instead of making it feel like this actually is a part that is between the intense parts.

01:49:161 (1,2) - This is awkward because you jump further with angle being too
CTRL-G 01:49:298 (2,3) - and 01:49:571 (1,2) - and it is comfortable and gives more emphasis imo
Asagi

Ascendance wrote:

I say it a lot but

mapping only the top diff to a set is really lazy to me :/ Obviously it's just my opinion but when you're an experienced mapper, you have higher expectations imo, it just comes across as "hm I'm just gonna map one diff and sit back" instead of putting substantial effort into the creation of your set
Joe Castle

Nikakis wrote:

Kroytz was probably a good student in Geometry, but not so good in the Music Class
O O F
Fushimi Rio

Mao wrote:

[Rio's MAXIMUM]
  1. 00:23:050 (1,2,3,4) - This pattern gimmick is not introduced well due to the complexity of this pattern. Putting it right after a long stream makes it unpredictable and thus really hard to play. I'd rather go for something similar like Kroytz and introduce spaced 1/3 in general first and then go all out with the patterns, changed to a clearer pattern
  2. 00:33:889 (2) - Why is there no hitsound on this? Same for 00:35:437 (3) - added a normal-finish sample
  3. 00:38:469 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6) - This is quite hard to read because this is almost the spacing you have used for 1/3 before. Just start small like with 00:19:953 - . won't be that hard if players are able to hear the song
  4. 00:55:707 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - All of your other patterns were pretty straight-forward and not that overlap-heavy yet here you go all out on an overlap gimmick which makes this way too hard to read. overlapped jumps are hard to read and then hard to play, but things are different for streams
  5. 00:56:798 - Your emphasis in this section is quite weird because the piano emphasises the red ticks like 00:58:026 - yet you decide to put jumps on the white ones like 00:57:889 (1) - . I recommend you doing it like you do at 01:01:161 - . because the newly introduced drum track is more inviting in the first two bar (but not the third
  6. 01:09:889 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - Why didn't you split these into groups of two like you do for all the other ones? because the song didn't split it
  7. 01:18:616 (1) - Not really a huge complaint but this double repeat feels out of place in the context of the difficulty. still structural with the song
  8. 01:22:980 (1,2,1,2,1,2,3) - The huge spacing plays really really weird here. You never used such spacings for 1/4 before and afterwards in the map which makes this just feel completely out of place. Also at least silence the slider tails here like Kroytz did. Especially 01:23:798 (1,2) - sounds really bad. muting sliderends are nice idea but this pattern itself is fine im pretty sure
  9. 01:25:571 (2) - Is there a reason for this normal finish? Better slap it onto something like 01:26:116 (1) - . ok, not bad
  10. 01:28:298 (2,1) - This is about the same thing I explained in Kroytz' diff at 01:28:298 (4,5) - . pattern is following the high-pitch but structure is to drums
  11. 01:32:798 - Again, the whole pattern here is something you have never done before in any kind of way which makes it very unexpected and with that a difficulty spike. the song has never done before too but you gave me a nice idea for new pattern
  12. 01:40:434 - There's a similar issue with emphasis in this part as the song emphasizes notes like 01:41:252 (2) - or 01:46:025 (2) - and even though you followed it nicely with patterns like 01:42:616 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - , you are not consistent enough with it. the higher-pitch trach is not clear until 01:41:525 - , it's not reasonable to create non-exist rhythms just for consistency
  13. 01:53:525 - I don't really get the way you handle flow from that point on. Let me explain, you have rotational movement starting at 01:53:525 - but then you suddenly swap to sharp linear movement at 01:54:616 (1,2,1,2) - for no apparant reason. now its clear
  14. 01:58:343 (1,2) - This spaced 1/3 is pretty awkward to play, better go with a stack here. not that awkward if the player is able to play this whole map (otherwise they would fail before this pattern


Honestly, I think this difficulty needs to be reworked in many ways. Emphasis is inconsistent and there are new concepts thrown at the player out of nowhere. Also the hitsounding could use some work. In general here I'd suggest more mods on this.
Thanks for modding!

AncuL wrote:

on the hardest diff, 01:55:707 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - the way on putting NC (and notes) on these sets of notes is a big no for me. this part has a pattern of 1-2-3-1-2-3-1-2-3, not 1-2-1-2-1-2. i believe things similiar to this represents the song better

in a side note, maybe adding NC to every single notes on 01:57:889 (1,2,3,4) - might be better to end the music

edit: similiar thing happens in Rio's diff, 01:53:525 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - has a pattern of 1-2-3-1-2-3 while the mapper mapped it with 1-2-1-2 (actually this happens from 01:49:161 - ) (this has been brought up by Xexxar but i think i do it again for the sake of relevancy)
And this is fixed now
osu file format v14

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Title:Preserved Valkyria
TitleUnicode:Preserved Valkyria
Artist:penoreri
ArtistUnicode:ぺのれり
Creator:Kroytz
Version:Rio's MAXIMUM
Source:SOUND VOLTEX III GRAVITY WARS
Tags:sdvx konami arcade championship kac song contest Renumi Akitoshi pkk Sharkie Zexous Kawashiro Fushimi Rio
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162,186,107389,5,0,0:0:0:0:
256,92,107525,1,0,1:0:0:0:
256,286,107662,1,0,1:0:0:0:
132,184,107798,5,0,1:0:0:0:
256,62,107934,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,326,108071,5,4,1:0:0:0:
295,350,108139,1,0,0:0:0:0:
342,343,108207,1,0,0:0:0:0:
371,306,108275,1,0,0:0:0:0:
369,259,108343,1,0,1:0:0:0:
337,225,108411,1,0,0:0:0:0:
316,184,108480,1,0,0:0:0:0:
320,136,108548,1,0,0:0:0:0:
344,96,108616,5,0,1:2:0:0:
336,44,108684,1,0,3:0:0:0:
300,8,108752,1,0,3:0:0:0:
248,1,108820,1,0,3:0:0:0:
203,27,108888,1,0,1:0:0:0:
183,74,108956,1,0,3:0:0:0:
195,124,109025,1,0,3:0:0:0:
235,157,109093,1,0,3:0:0:0:
287,158,109161,5,4,1:0:0:0:
344,16,109298,1,0,0:0:0:0:
358,239,109434,5,0,0:0:0:0:
396,76,109571,1,2,0:0:0:0:
432,314,109707,5,0,0:0:0:0:
452,132,109843,1,0,0:0:0:0:
512,384,109980,5,2,0:2:0:0:
512,184,110116,1,0,0:0:0:0:
432,314,110252,5,0,0:0:0:0:
452,132,110388,1,2,0:0:0:0:
358,239,110524,5,0,0:0:0:0:
396,76,110661,1,0,0:0:0:0:
287,158,110798,6,0,P|314:93|396:76,1,159.999995231628,2|0,0:2|2:0,0:0:0:0:
336,312,111071,2,0,L|176:244,1,159.999995231628,2|0,1:0|2:0,0:0:0:0:
0,168,111343,5,2,0:2:0:0:
0,368,111479,1,0,0:0:0:0:
60,116,111616,5,0,0:0:0:0:
80,298,111752,1,2,0:0:0:0:
116,60,111888,5,0,0:0:0:0:
154,223,112025,1,0,0:0:0:0:
168,0,112161,5,2,0:2:0:0:
225,142,112298,1,0,0:0:0:0:
116,60,112434,5,0,0:0:0:0:
154,223,112571,1,2,0:0:0:0:
60,116,112707,5,0,0:0:0:0:
80,298,112843,1,0,0:0:0:0:
0,167,112980,6,0,P|101:126|153:223,1,240.000002002716,2|0,1:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
219,82,113252,2,0,P|131:27|101:126,1,240.000002002716,2|0,1:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
332,216,113525,5,4,1:0:0:0:
112,296,113661,1,2,1:2:0:0:
221,63,113798,1,2,1:2:0:0:
317,328,113934,5,0,1:0:0:0:
41,199,114071,1,2,1:0:0:0:
350,87,114207,1,0,1:0:0:0:
221,362,114343,5,0,1:0:0:0:
125,97,114480,1,2,1:2:0:0:
359,206,114616,1,2,1:2:0:0:
139,286,114752,5,0,1:0:0:0:
229,96,114889,1,2,1:0:0:0:
30,168,115025,1,0,1:0:0:0:
243,267,115161,5,2,1:2:0:0:
154,24,115298,1,0,1:0:0:0:
35,278,115434,5,0,1:2:0:0:
322,174,115571,1,0,1:0:0:0:
23,35,115707,5,4,1:0:0:0:
135,344,115843,1,0,1:0:0:0:
347,93,115980,1,0,1:0:0:0:
212,332,116116,5,4,1:0:0:0:
312,53,116252,1,0,1:0:0:0:
503,279,116389,1,0,1:0:0:0:
217,167,116525,5,4,1:0:0:0:
232,122,116593,1,0,0:0:0:0:
280,122,116662,1,0,0:0:0:0:
294,167,116730,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,196,116798,1,0,0:0:0:0:
256,156,116934,5,4,1:2:0:0:
152,324,117070,5,2,0:0:0:0:
416,76,117206,1,2,0:0:0:0:
124,200,117343,5,2,0:0:0:0:
388,200,117479,1,2,0:0:0:0:
96,76,117616,5,2,0:0:0:0:
360,324,117752,1,2,0:0:0:0:
256,6,117889,5,0,1:0:0:0:
200,64,117980,1,0,1:0:0:0:
256,120,118071,1,0,3:0:0:0:
312,64,118161,1,0,3:0:0:0:
120,376,118343,5,0,3:0:0:0:
196,352,118434,2,0,B|256:312|284:224|265:166|265:166|168:164|128:224|128:224|196:236|266:169|266:169|256:112|156:8|32:64|32:64|80:112|204:148|248:-12|412:12|456:44|456:44|352:88|348:176|348:176|344:252|392:284|460:292|528:296|534:178|515:152|482:137|448:152|432:184|432:184,1,1791.99994659424,4|0,0:1|0:0,0:0:0:0:

12/14 Edit: Forgot to mute sliderends. Changed the code.
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